Ukraine orders troops to key cities

[webfact]

Ukraine crisis: Poroshenko orders troops to key cities

(BBC) Ukraine's President Petro Poroshenko has ordered army reinforcements to key southern and eastern cities in case of a new rebel offensive.

Mr Poroshenko said the units were to protect Mariupol, Berdyansk, Kharkiv and the north of Luhansk region.

He spoke after meeting security chiefs in the wake of disputed polls in rebel-held areas of Donetsk and Luhansk.

He said he was still committed to the current peace process but has proposed cancelling a key plank of the plan.

The peace process was laid out in a 5 September ceasefire deal agreed in Minsk, Belarus.

Angered by the elections, Mr Poroshenko has proposed scrapping a law that gives special status to Donetsk and Luhansk.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29905014


-- BBC 2014-11-05

[ABCer]

This is usually called "a clean up operation" after securing the territory.

I thought the people have been 'cleaned' down to the bone already.

Poor Ukrainians!

[lovetotravel]

This is usually called "a clean up operation" after securing the territory. I thought the people have been 'cleaned' down to the bone already. Poor Ukrainians!

It's been reported Russia is sending in new troops and equipment to aid the rebels. The government of Ukraine is just trying to protect their sovereign territory from foreign invaders. Can't blame them for trying.

[sead]

Yeah. Remember Serbia tried to protect their sovereign Kosovo. But then everyone thouhht it was ok that us and nato bombed. Situation is similar now but it will be interesting to see what the self proclaimed protectors of the world will do now.

[ABCer]

lovetotravel,- I'm not blaming them for trying to protect their sovereignty. I said "POOR UKRAINIANS". And I said this not without reason.

sead, - It will be not interesting. To answer your query - Nothing! Any more 'sanctions' and the "self proclaimed protectors of the world" will pop.

From the very start of this ridiculous conflict that should have never happened I blame Ukrainian Government for being short-sighted, not pragmatic and overly nationalistic (not to mention being common thieves). If they would have left Sevastopol to 'Mother Russia' who gifted Ukraine the Crimea - none of this nonsense would ever happen.

And, please, do not mention to me any written agreements. All agreements are good until they become bad. No need for examples, I hope.

[Matej]

It's obvious that Putin is eager for more Ukrainian territory, he has already shifted the borders ...

More Russian forces has been deployed in Ukraine after so-called separatist free elections in east and others will follow.

We can expect new attacks in the near future.

Someone may ask, "Why is Putin playing these pathetic games - elections, Kremlin-backed rebel leaders sworn in, humanitarian convoy ... no one believes him, Why is he doing it? " Yes, no one believes him. It's important to realize that this is movie theater for people who live in Donbas not for the West. Russia is far too weak to start regular, open war with 44 million Ukraine(remember Chechnya 1994, 1999; Afghanistan 1979). Kremlin knows there are many ways how sovereign country can be destroyed. Now we see it in Ukraine. Fascism fairytale, promised people economic miracles, taking advantage of USSR nostalgy and nationalism, protection against enemies - Propaganda. Propaganda combined with military aggression, cyber warfare ... can be extremely effective.

We can also see Russian influence in EU. For examle Viktor Orban, Hungary PM (South Stream project) ...

Edited November 5, 2014 by Matej

[lovetotravel]

lovetotravel,- I'm not blaming them for trying to protect their sovereignty. I said "POOR UKRAINIANS". And I said this not without reason. sead, - It will be not interesting. To answer your query - Nothing! Any more 'sanctions' and the "self proclaimed protectors of the world" will pop. From the very start of this ridiculous conflict that should have never happened I blame Ukrainian Government for being short-sighted, not pragmatic and overly nationalistic (not to mention being common thieves). If they would have left Sevastopol to 'Mother Russia' who gifted Ukraine the Crimea - none of this nonsense would ever happen. And, please, do not mention to me any written agreements. All agreements are good until they become bad. No need for examples, I hope.

Sanctions are being imposed on Russia by many different countries. Maybe the Ukraine government did make a mistake, but that doesn't mean another country can take advantage and invade the sovereign territory of another just because of mistakes. If that was true, every country in the world would be wide open for invasion!

[Pakboong]

lovetotravel,- I'm not blaming them for trying to protect their sovereignty. I said "POOR UKRAINIANS". And I said this not without reason. sead, - It will be not interesting. To answer your query - Nothing! Any more 'sanctions' and the "self proclaimed protectors of the world" will pop. From the very start of this ridiculous conflict that should have never happened I blame Ukrainian Government for being short-sighted, not pragmatic and overly nationalistic (not to mention being common thieves). If they would have left Sevastopol to 'Mother Russia' who gifted Ukraine the Crimea - none of this nonsense would ever happen. And, please, do not mention to me any written agreements. All agreements are good until they become bad. No need for examples, I hope.

Sanctions are being imposed on Russia by many different countries. Maybe the Ukraine government did make a mistake, but that doesn't mean another country can take advantage and invade the sovereign territory of another just because of mistakes. If that was true, every country in the world would be wide open for invasion!

When are you going to figure out that nobody was invaded?

[lovetotravel]

lovetotravel,- I'm not blaming them for trying to protect their sovereignty. I said "POOR UKRAINIANS". And I said this not without reason. sead, - It will be not interesting. To answer your query - Nothing! Any more 'sanctions' and the "self proclaimed protectors of the world" will pop. From the very start of this ridiculous conflict that should have never happened I blame Ukrainian Government for being short-sighted, not pragmatic and overly nationalistic (not to mention being common thieves). If they would have left Sevastopol to 'Mother Russia' who gifted Ukraine the Crimea - none of this nonsense would ever happen. And, please, do not mention to me any written agreements. All agreements are good until they become bad. No need for examples, I hope.

Sanctions are being imposed on Russia by many different countries. Maybe the Ukraine government did make a mistake, but that doesn't mean another country can take advantage and invade the sovereign territory of another just because of mistakes. If that was true, every country in the world would be wide open for invasion!

When are you going to figure out that nobody was invaded?

Are you saying no foreign troops are in Ukraine?

[Pakboong]

lovetotravel,- I'm not blaming them for trying to protect their sovereignty. I said "POOR UKRAINIANS". And I said this not without reason. sead, - It will be not interesting. To answer your query - Nothing! Any more 'sanctions' and the "self proclaimed protectors of the world" will pop. From the very start of this ridiculous conflict that should have never happened I blame Ukrainian Government for being short-sighted, not pragmatic and overly nationalistic (not to mention being common thieves). If they would have left Sevastopol to 'Mother Russia' who gifted Ukraine the Crimea - none of this nonsense would ever happen. And, please, do not mention to me any written agreements. All agreements are good until they become bad. No need for examples, I hope.

Sanctions are being imposed on Russia by many different countries. Maybe the Ukraine government did make a mistake, but that doesn't mean another country can take advantage and invade the sovereign territory of another just because of mistakes. If that was true, every country in the world would be wide open for invasion!

When are you going to figure out that nobody was invaded?

Are you saying no foreign troops are in Ukraine?

It is pretty much like the MH17 investigation. If there was any evidence that Russia was involved, the results would have been released. Putin wants nothing to do with this for so many reasons. I am not saying there were never foreign troops in Ukraine, I am saying that Ukraine was not invaded by Russia. Invaded is a harsh term that does not stand up to scrutiny in this instance.

[lovetotravel]

It is pretty much like the MH17 investigation. If there was any evidence that Russia was involved, the results would have been released. Putin wants nothing to do with this for so many reasons. I am not saying there were never foreign troops in Ukraine, I am saying that Ukraine was not invaded by Russia. Invaded is a harsh term that does not stand up to scrutiny in this instance.

Nothing like the MH17 investigation. I don't think they'll ever be able to prove Russia was behind it, other than perhaps for supplying the missile launcher.

Too many reports of Russian involvement. Look no further than the people running the rebel areas.

The west has reported Russian troops in Ukraine, but Moscow denies it. Hard to believe a word that's printed in the Russian media. Zero credibility.

Yes, invasion is a harsh term. But Russia does have boots on the ground in Ukraine. Actually, this definition of invasion fits pretty well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion

An invasion is a military offensive in which large parts of combatants of one geopolitical entity aggressively enter territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of either conquering, liberating or re-establishing control or authority over a territory, forcing the partition of a country, altering the established government or gaining concessions from said government, or a combination thereof. An invasion can be the cause of a war, be a part of a larger strategy to end a war, or it can constitute an entire war in itself. Due to the large scale of the operations associated with invasions, they are usually strategic in planning and execution.

[ABCer]

 

It is pretty much like the MH17 investigation. If there was any evidence that Russia was involved, the results would have been released. Putin wants nothing to do with this for so many reasons. I am not saying there were never foreign troops in Ukraine, I am saying that Ukraine was not invaded by Russia. Invaded is a harsh term that does not stand up to scrutiny in this instance.

Nothing like the MH17 investigation. I don't think they'll ever be able to prove Russia was behind it, other than perhaps for supplying the missile launcher.

Too many reports of Russian involvement. Look no further than the people running the rebel areas.

The west has reported Russian troops in Ukraine, but Moscow denies it. Hard to believe a word that's printed in the Russian media. Zero credibility.

Yes, invasion is a harsh term. But Russia does have boots on the ground in Ukraine. Actually, this definition of invasion fits pretty well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion

An invasion is a military offensive in which large parts of combatants of one geopolitical entity aggressively enter territory controlled by another such entity, generally with the objective of either conquering, liberating or re-establishing control or authority over a territory, forcing the partition of a country, altering the established government or gaining concessions from said government, or a combination thereof. An invasion can be the cause of a war, be a part of a larger strategy to end a war, or it can constitute an entire war in itself. Due to the large scale of the operations associated with invasions, they are usually strategic in planning and execution.

 

Lovetotravel, Pakboong,

My last agenda would be to defend Russia or its actions but "Demonising" Russia in the whole Ukraine issue is counterproductive.

The 'zero credibility' cuts both ways.

The definition of 'invasion' quoted cuts both ways.

And the 'meat in the sandwich' cuts both ways - for Ukrainian and Russian people.

They are already and will much more in the future 'pay' for the stupidity unfolding before our eyes.