Jerusalem sees new deadly car attack

[webfact]

Jerusalem attack: Netanyahu blames incitement

(BBC) A Palestinian driver has rammed a car into several pedestrians in Jerusalem, killing a policeman, hours after clashes at the city's holiest site.

About a dozen people were injured and the driver was shot dead by police.

Hamas militants said they carried out the attack. Israel's prime minister said it was a result of "incitement" by the Palestinian Authority and Hamas.

A similar car attack by a Palestinian took place in the same area two weeks ago which left a woman and a baby dead.

Meanwhile Jordan has recalled its ambassador to Israel over what it called the "unprecedented Israeli escalation" at holy and sensitive sites in Jerusalem.

Also citing continued settlement activity, Jordan is to lodge a formal complaint to the United Nations Security Council in protest, the Jordanian state news agency Petra reported.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29911702


-- BBC 2014-11-06

[bigjules007]

Meanwhile Jordan has recalled its ambassador to Israel over what it called the "unprecedented Israeli escalation" at holy and sensitive sites in Jerusalem.

why does Israel keep provoking the Palestinians? Have'nt they occupied enough land, without now trying to muscle in on the holy sites.

[Somtamnication]

I have a crazy idea: GIve the palestinians their land back and state status, stop west bank invasion of Israelis and then see what really happens!! Nope. Too logical.

[Scott]

Off-topic, baiting posts and replies have been removed.

Start off-topic bickering posts and you will be suspended.

[RustBucket]

Whatever happened to the good old days when two nations just had an all out war and winner takes all?

Job done.

[RustBucket]

Oh and by the way, Hamas probably slaughter more Palestinians than Israelis do.

Ordinary Palestinians hate Hamas, they are terrified of them and their execution squads.

Just have a big old war, and once Israel wins and controls all of Palestine, then weed out every last member of Hamas and put them out of their misery and truly free the Palestinian people.

[SOTIRIOS]

...would any of you want someone else to tell you how to live in your own house.....???

[Ulysses G.]

They - the Palestinian Arabs - never had a "house". The land was mostly owned by absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo and there was never an independent Palestinian state.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[EnglishJohn]

Oh and by the way, Hamas probably slaughter more Palestinians than Israelis do.

Ordinary Palestinians hate Hamas, they are terrified of them and their execution squads.

Just have a big old war, and once Israel wins and controls all of Palestine, then weed out every last member of Hamas and put them out of their misery and truly free the Palestinian people.

Perhaps if the Israel haters vented the same hate and pressure at Hamas, they would stop behaving like they do.

Oh, wait a minute, they wouldn't. They would carry on with murder and terrorism exactly the same.

Israel know this and don't have to put up with the liberal BS that fills the civilised world which gives people the right to say it. The same BS which makes our soldiers go to war with one hand tied behind their back and causes many of them to get killed needlessly.

Some people should try to realise that in a David and Goliath fight, David is not always the good guy.

[dexterm]

They - the Palestinian Arabs - never had a "house". The land was mostly owned by absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo and there was never an independent Palestinian state.

No links as per usual. Keep repeating your myths often enough, UG, and maybe even you will come to believe them.

[dexterm]

Whatever happened to the good old days when two nations just had an all out war and winner takes all?

Job done.

It's called "Living in the 21st Century" under the international rule of UN, ICC, and Geneva Convention... things Israel chooses frequently to ignore.

[Seastallion]

Whatever happened to the good old days when two nations just had an all out war and winner takes all?

Job done.

It's called "Living in the 21st Century" under the international rule of UN, ICC, and Geneva Convention... things Israel chooses frequently to ignore.

As per the OP, Netanyahu blames Palestinian incitement. Surely the incitement is with the state that either infringes UN, ICC, and GC obligations, or refuses to sign up to them in the first place?

[orosee]

Perhaps if roles were reversed... Palestinians shelling Jerusalem and settlements, Israelis bombing airliners, murdering hostages and decapitating villagers left and right, then the sympathies would shift in their favor?

[Ulysses G.]

They - the Palestinian Arabs - never had a "house". The land was mostly owned by absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo and there was never an independent Palestinian state.

No links as per usual. Keep repeating your myths often enough, UG, and maybe even you will come to believe them.

You mean that you forgot what was in the numerous links that I've provided on these topics before?

http://www.meforum.org/3273/palestinian-founding-national-myths

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=c-cviX0c63YC&pg=PA53&lpg=PA53&dq=Rashid+Khalidi+on+absentee+landlords+in+palestine&source=bl&ots=Th3JMvjaTa&sig=SPjI9NQPkJrvHt1qdmL1jLcBhcg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oGFbVID4OYSOuASf5ICwCQ&ved=0CEIQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Rashid%20Khalidi%20on%20absentee%20landlords%20in%20palestine&f=false

[arjunadawn]

Meanwhile Jordan has recalled its ambassador to Israel over what it called the "unprecedented Israeli escalation" at holy and sensitive sites in Jerusalem.

why does Israel keep provoking the Palestinians? Have'nt they occupied enough land, without now trying to muscle in on the holy sites.

The Hashemites- Jordan- actually occupy the land allocated for "Palestinians." The land on that side of the mandate was supposed to be for arabs of the region, and they agreed. It was the arabs, once having agreed, then decided to steal from the jews their allotment when they began to move toward an independent state. The arabs invaded the land on that side of the jordan, that was titled to the Jews. The jordians occupied the west bank illegally and then in 1967 when the combined armies again pushed for more, the jews repelled the jordanians from the west bank. There was an armistice of 1948 or so regarding where each armies were to avoid conflict unintentionally- the green line. The arabs insisted on including the language that no current occupation of any lands constitutes the finally settled issue of ownership- they new earlier they wanted more, but later lost the land they invaded in the west bank, and then too golan and gaza.

Arabs have intermittantly had possession of Jerusalem over millenia and without question it never served to represent in any sense a holy site, a third holy site. Its possession by mulsims was always and only in response to the desire to possess it by others. Thus the fact that Jerusalem had actually been sold or transfered multiple times- it was simply unimportant. Indeed, Saleh a Din's grandson disposed of Jerusalem in just this manner.

"Muscle in on the holy sites?" Really? This location is only holy because of Jewish tradition. Even prior to Soloman this area was sacred into antiquity. It is suggested Abraham offered his son here. Muslims would later coopt this association by the circular logic that since Mohhamed was a prophet, another one after jesus, he therefore rightly claims the line of the prophets of god all the way back through Abraham to Adam- therefore Abraham was Muslim, ie; this place is important. But was it? It was hardly important but was otherwise claimed with a mosque atop it as they do all conquests. Later, when the seat of the Caliphs were in Damascus or Baghdad, they sought to intrepret the Night Dream as referring to the furthest mosque as meaning the al asqa mosque. Problem is, everyone then knew the "furthest mosque" was not in jerusalem. Yet after a long period of time, and later renewed interest in Jerusalem again, with the mosque now called "the furthest mosque" muslims reintrepted, revised, and regrafted the furthest mosque into the prophet's night journey narrative. In Mohhamed's day, especially since he was repulsed by the jews and later fueled his wrath for them, people would have been horrified to think his night journey was to the Holy Mount. Why particularly? Because for a time in Medina the prophet did seek to entice jews to islam and even made the qibla in the direction of jeursalem (So much for the kaba being timeless in its sanctity). When the jews dismissed the prophet and protested the muslims praying to jerusalem, as the jews did, the prophet sais god commanded him to change it toward mecca, where they were now going to war. Allah had told him he was testing the jews, and apparently they failed. To assert mohhamed's night journey was to the furthest mosque (and there was then no mosque present) in Jerusalem would have been blasphemy.

It is all political conquest to further Islam and now the truth is buried from the perception of millions of people who dont ask the questions.

[arjunadawn]

They - the Palestinian Arabs - never had a "house". The land was mostly owned by absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo and there was never an independent Palestinian state.

No links as per usual. Keep repeating your myths often enough, UG, and maybe even you will come to believe them.

There never was a Palestinian State previously. You may disagree with its value, meaning, and how Ulysses reaches the conclusions he does because of this, but do you actually disagree there never was a palestinian state, or just that it wasnt run mostly as a jurisdiction of other empires? I would not know where to look for something so obvious had I to find a link. Its sort of stipulated knowledge- most people know there was not a state and the land unfortunately changed hands numerous times.

Mostly I think the issue of State or no State previously is meaningless. The fact is, there needs to be one now- or something that addresses the injustices or the past decades for the local residents of the area. Jeez, even within existing legitimate states people reserve the right to seceede. I just dont know which land they should have now.

[japsportscarmad]

They - the Palestinian Arabs - never had a "house". The land was mostly owned by absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo and there was never an independent Palestinian state.

No links as per usual. Keep repeating your myths often enough, UG, and maybe even you will come to believe them.

You mean that you forgot what was in the numerous links that I've provided on these topics before?

http://www.meforum.org/3273/palestinian-founding-national-myths

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=c-cviX0c63YC&pg=PA53&lpg=PA53&dq=Rashid+Khalidi+on+absentee+landlords+in+palestine&source=bl&ots=Th3JMvjaTa&sig=SPjI9NQPkJrvHt1qdmL1jLcBhcg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oGFbVID4OYSOuASf5ICwCQ&ved=0CEIQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Rashid%20Khalidi%20on%20absentee%20landlords%20in%20palestine&f=false

These are not legitimate links they are just propaganda, please try to refer to facts not fiction, Palestine like most Arab lands was mostly used by nomadic people, so most of those would not have title deeds or land but occupied the land. Before they were ethnically cleansed that is. Edited November 6, 2014 by japsportscarmad

[johna]

Another excuse for Netanyahu to launch a murderous rampage through Gaza.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/violence-will-continue-for-as-long-as-access-to-alaqsa-mosque-is-curtailed-9844899.html

[Jingthing]

Another excuse for Netanyahu to launch a murderous rampage through Gaza.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/violence-will-continue-for-as-long-as-access-to-alaqsa-mosque-is-curtailed-9844899.html

If they shoot rockets again, Israel will defend herself again. Your inflammatory "murderous rampage" rhetoric is just noise. At first I didn't get why you were connecting Gaza to the Jerusalem flareup but considering the Hamas connections of the recent terrorists there, I guess relating it to Gaza kind of works.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

They - the Palestinian Arabs - never had a "house". The land was mostly owned by absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo and there was never an independent Palestinian state.

No links as per usual. Keep repeating your myths often enough, UG, and maybe even you will come to believe them.

You mean that you forgot what was in the numerous links that I've provided on these topics before?

http://www.meforum.org/3273/palestinian-founding-national-myths

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=c-cviX0c63YC&pg=PA53&lpg=PA53&dq=Rashid+Khalidi+on+absentee+landlords+in+palestine&source=bl&ots=Th3JMvjaTa&sig=SPjI9NQPkJrvHt1qdmL1jLcBhcg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oGFbVID4OYSOuASf5ICwCQ&ved=0CEIQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Rashid%20Khalidi%20on%20absentee%20landlords%20in%20palestine&f=false

These are not legitimate links they are just propaganda, please try to refer to facts not fiction, Palestine like most Arab lands was mostly used by nomadic people, so most of those would not have title deeds or land but occupied the land. Before they were ethnically cleansed that is.

They are facts that you can not refute, but at least you admit that the so-called 'Palestinians" did not own most of the land. As I said in the first place, it was owned by absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo and there was never an independent Palestinian state. All FACTS.

[Ulysses G.]

There never was a Palestinian State previously. You may disagree with its value, meaning, and how Ulysses reaches the conclusions he does because of this, but do you actually disagree there never was a palestinian state, or just that it wasnt run mostly as a jurisdiction of other empires? I would not know where to look for something so obvious had I to find a link. Its sort of stipulated knowledge- most people know there was not a state and the land unfortunately changed hands numerous times.

Of course. It is common knowledge and anyone that would try to pretend that it is not - and calls well-known facts "propaganda" - shows how little they know about the history of the Middle East.

[dexterm]

Wrong yet again UG...not facts, simply your fantasies and fabrications.

"Official statistics show that Jews privately and collectively owned 5.23% of Palestine's total in 1945"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine#Land_ownership

Stein, Kenneth W. (1987) [Original in 1984]. The Land Question in Palestine, 1917–1939. University of North Carolina Press. ISBN 978-0-8078-4178-5.

[Ulysses G.]

That has nothing to do with anything that I said or how much land Palestinian Arabs owned. Do you ever tire of being caught making things up? Most of the land was owned by absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo - not Palestinian Arabs - and there was never an independent Palestinian state. All FACTS.

From YOUR link:

Land ownership

After transition to the British rule, much of the agricultural land in Palestine (about 1/3 of the whole territory) retained under the ownership of past Ottoman landlords, mostly powerful Arab clans and local Muslim sheikhs.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

That has nothing to do with anything that I said or how much land Palestinian Arabs owned. Do you ever tire of being caught making things up? Most of the land was owned by absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo - not Palestinian Arabs - and there was never an independent Palestinian state. All FACTS.

From YOUR link:

Land ownership

After transition to the British rule, much of the agricultural land in Palestine (about 1/3 of the whole territory) retained under the ownership of past Ottoman landlords, mostly powerful Arab clans and local Muslim sheikhs.

So you admit it then...past Ottoman landlords, powerful Arab clans and local Muslim sheiks certainly ain't the Jewish National Fund! Thanks, UG..like getting blood out of a stone sometimes.

Notice also that you cherry pick stats for agricultural land which is only 1/3 of the whole territory of Palestine.I urge readers of the wiki link to glance a little below UG's admission to see a table demonstrating far greater Arab ownership of the other 2/3rds also.

More details here.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Palestine_Land_ownership_by_sub-district_(1945).jpg

Yet another of your myths debunked UG.

[arjunadawn]

That has nothing to do with anything that I said or how much land Palestinian Arabs owned. Do you ever tire of being caught making things up? Most of the land was owned by absentee landlords in Beirut, Damascus and Cairo - not Palestinian Arabs - and there was never an independent Palestinian state. All FACTS.

From YOUR link:

Land ownership

After transition to the British rule, much of the agricultural land in Palestine (about 1/3 of the whole territory) retained under the ownership of past Ottoman landlords, mostly powerful Arab clans and local Muslim sheikhs.

So you admit it then...past Ottoman landlords, powerful Arab clans and local Muslim sheiks certainly ain't the Jewish National Fund! Thanks, UG..like getting blood out of a stone sometimes.

Notice also that you cherry pick stats for agricultural land which is only 1/3 of the whole territory of Palestine.I urge readers of the wiki link to glance a little below UG's admission to see a table demonstrating far greater Arab ownership of the other 2/3rds also.

More details here.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Palestine_Land_ownership_by_sub-district_(1945).jpg

Yet another of your myths debunked UG.

Of course you are correct, Jews owned little of the land there in the common era during the time we refer to. However, the notion that previous Arabs or Muslims owned the land does not constitute a Palestinian State, nor does it translate into Palestinian lands, per se. Yet at the close of WWI this land no longer belonged to the Arabs as a result of the war. It was for the new landowners to do as they wish, and they choose the mandates.

It can be argued that the lands should never have been passed to the allied powers but this argument fails as the precedent is timeless. At the creation of the state of Israel - I don't know the numbers- it would not surprise me that local Arabs personally owned more land privately. But of course this is irrelevant, as the land was ceded by agreement to the Jews, and the "Palestinians" would have the other side of the Jordan.

That Palestinian locals held more land may demonstrate a fact, but it dose not constitute a vital piece of information.

[Jingthing]

So what either way? Israel exists like it or not.

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[uptheos]

Surely the time is fast approaching when Israel will say enough is enough to the bloodthirsty murderers of Hamas and do what is needed to stop it once and for all.

[Jingthing]

Surely the time is fast approaching when Israel will say enough is enough to the bloodthirsty murderers of Hamas and do what is needed to stop it once and for all.

Not sure about that as what would replace them would likely be even worse.

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[uptheos]

Surely the time is fast approaching when Israel will say enough is enough to the bloodthirsty murderers of Hamas and do what is needed to stop it once and for all.

Not sure about that as what would replace them would likely be even worse.

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You stop it and take control of it, so who would replace them?

[Jingthing]

Israel probably doesn't have the bandwidth for that.

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