American with 4 year IRS battle have my do day exp 16 Nov.

[ClutchClark]

As it would be if you shot someone. I think the point is an American has the right of due process. The intent of the IRS was to get Americans before they had the opportunity to defend themselves. Kind of like McCarthyism, the accusation was enough to ruin your life. And in that the IRS has not prevailed.

Not trying to be argumentative but there is very little about Rights to Due Process or much any other right when dealing with the IRS. They can seize assets without a court order, etc etc

They are rotten to the core and make bill collectors look like Santa's helpers.

Best thing to do with any IRS bill is pay it immediately and THEN fight it.

I believe this thread is about can the IRS take your passport without due process and the answer is no. They can lien your assets but can't take your passport as a result of the lien. Although I'm sure they would like to but they can't.

Then I would suggest we both get back on topic.

Cheers

[jacksam]

Did the OP ever get around to telling us of the amount the IRS is chasing. In AU, the claim is often settled bit like out of court settlements. Why hasn't op mentioned the possibility of paying.

How often do IRS in USA have it so wrong. Is he just trying to avoid paying....I wouldn't be worried about the passport...he has that answer already.

Fact is this won't just go away....what if he has to return to States for some reason. I once had a 14,000 dollar dispute with bank in AU...(trust me I was in the right)

Anyway my best friend was a QC....I asked him if we should fight it. He agreed fully it was their error...his advice to me ..."jack your talking about one of the big 4..are you crazy" (the big 4 refers to fact 4 major banks in AU.

pay the bill

[ClutchClark]

Did the OP ever get around to telling us of the amount the IRS is chasing. In AU, the claim is often settled bit like out of court settlements. Why hasn't op mentioned the possibility of paying.

How often do IRS in USA have it so wrong. Is he just trying to avoid paying....I wouldn't be worried about the passport...he has that answer already.

Fact is this won't just go away....what if he has to return to States for some reason. I once had a 14,000 dollar dispute with bank in AU...(trust me I was in the right)

Anyway my best friend was a QC....I asked him if we should fight it. He agreed fully it was their error...his advice to me ..."jack your talking about one of the big 4..are you crazy" (the big 4 refers to fact 4 major banks in AU.

pay the bill

Jack,

Quite valid points.

Mistakes by the IRS are typically mistakes by the taxpayer that have been identified by the IRS, at which point the IRS begins a collection effort and providing the taxpayer an opportunity to refile an amended (corrected) tax return. When the debt cannot be disproved by the taxpayer then they can often settle up for some percentage of the debt owed if it is a large debt.

The OP indicated he thinks the IRS is trying to personally "get him" by not allowing a continuance based on his absence from the US. This is odd. The IRS is typically very cooperative and provides ample opportunity for a convenient meeting--in fact, its not uncommon for a year to pass between original IRS notice and a solution to be determined. As the OP title indicates, four years has passed in his "battle". Hopefully he does not have Wesley Snipes tax attorney ;-)

Edited November 9, 2014 by ClutchClark

[jacksam]

The answer to the OP ....is simple. The IRS cannot cancel passport. Done

Now bit about sticking nose in someone else's business.

It was the OP that outlined his situation. To add some thoughts or views I would have regarded as related.

Maybe the OP may wish to consider options. Current option is rather drastic.

[Gonsalviz]

For anything to happen here it would have to get to the point where they have charged you and an arrest warrant issued.

Could the IRS just not cancel his PP ?

No they cannot.

As much as the Gestapo IRS would like to, they cannot. They can however charge fees, fines and 20% interest.

[ubonjoe]

Two bickering posts have been removed. Time to end it.

[pmarlin]

For anything to happen here it would have to get to the point where they have charged you and an arrest warrant issued.

Could the IRS just not cancel his PP ?

No they cannot.

As much as the Gestapo IRS would like to, they cannot. They can however charge fees, fines and 20% interest.

and you can go to prison if it is Tax evasion,

[ubonjoe]

This topic just got about 14 posts shorter. Time to get back on topic.

[Langsuan Man]

Your worst fear should not be Thai Immigration, you worst fear should be when, not if, the IRS slaps a lean on all your US assets, to the point that you can't even pay your lawyer

As far as your opinion that they are being vindictive because you hired and ex IRS examiner as your legal counsel that is patently false. They are going after you since you owe them money simple as that and believe me, they can wait you out

And by the way, they never forget

[Godfree2]

Your worst fear should not be Thai Immigration, you worst fear should be when, not if, the IRS slaps a lean on all your US assets, to the point that you can't even pay your lawyer

As far as your opinion that they are being vindictive because you hired and ex IRS examiner as your legal counsel that is patently false. They are going after you since you owe them money simple as that and believe me, they can wait you out

And by the way, they never forget

I don't understand.

How can the IRS seize his Bitcoin wallet?

How can the IRS seize his pre-paid VISA cards?

How can the IRS take the cash out of block of tofu in his freezer in his up-country Thai condo?

Why are you trolling Bankster propaganda (get a 9-5, keep all your funds in a Bulge Bracket Bank) here on TV?

[taony]

just keep writing letters back and forth, they only have 10 years to collect:

http://www.irs.gov/irb/2006-40_IRB/ar07.html

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080923191110AAmWQB3

http://www.unclefed.com/AuthorsRow/TaxBusProf/irs10yrlimit.html

[Langsuan Man]

Your worst fear should not be Thai Immigration, you worst fear should be when, not if, the IRS slaps a lean on all your US assets, to the point that you can't even pay your lawyer

As far as your opinion that they are being vindictive because you hired and ex IRS examiner as your legal counsel that is patently false. They are going after you since you owe them money simple as that and believe me, they can wait you out

And by the way, they never forget

I don't understand.

How can the IRS seize his Bitcoin wallet?

How can the IRS seize his pre-paid VISA cards?

How can the IRS take the cash out of block of tofu in his freezer in his up-country Thai condo?

Why are you trolling Bankster propaganda (get a 9-5, keep all your funds in a Bulge Bracket Bank) here on TV?

How does he get the cash to put into his Bitcoin wallet ?

How does he pay for his pre-paid VISA cards ?

Why would the IRS want his cash out of tofu in his freezer ?

I am not trolling. I respect and fear the power and might of the IRS and if you don't want to believe me then ask Wesley Snipes or read about Al Capone and many, many, others who thought they could out smart the IRS

[Godfree2]

How does he get the cash to put into his Bitcoin wallet ?

He downloads and installs the Bitcoin-Qt wallet for free from bitcoin.org.

He visits localbitcoins.com and finds a seller who will either meet at Starbucks or who accepts a bank deposit (no personal information required). The bitcoins are then released from localbitcoin.com's escrow account into his free and unregistered wallet.

This will work with any bank in Thailand (Kbank, BBank, SCB, etc...) or USA or anywhere in the world.

How does he pay for his pre-paid VISA cards ?

He buys them for cash at 7-11 or Wal-Mart.

Why would the IRS want his cash out of tofu in his freezer ?

Exactly. That's where he keeps his physical currency.

I am not trolling. I respect and fear the power and might of the IRS and if you don't want to believe me then ask Wesley Snipes or read about Al Capone and many, many, others who thought they could out smart the IRS

I agree, he's probably a tax evader and deserves whatever he gets but posters on here go on ad nausea about how its impossible to live without an account at Bangkok Bank and Bank of America and gubmit gonna get you no matter what -- ridiculous. I hope this info ends up helping that 1/100 guy who really is being persecuted.

[Godfree2]

I have good news:for 2400$ you can relinquishe your US citizenship(great country by the way and US people are wonderful people, so smart, thin, healthy ... , I don't think I could live somewhere else, I love USA. ) and be free from irs. before it was 450 bucks.

last month my European bank sent me a form I have to sign every year asking if I m a USA person. the form is a USA form so I don't give so much s...t about it. I just signed it and send it back.

guess what? the bank in question sent me back the form and told me I have to write down where I suppose to pay my tax.

So I wrote I pay my tax in my European country(I m not really as my residence is no where and that s legal In my country of citizenship ) and I sent the form back.

the crazy thing is all these forms are just to chase US person and kick them out. more and more I see it s worse and worse for USA people since they have implemented this fatca crap.

if you have another nationality like me, you should consider leaving the USA for good and never go back.

When I read this BS post, I imagine you looking exactly like the person in your avatar.

[templedog]

A few years ago a guy went to the US Embassy to apply for a new passport they confiscated it issued him s temporary one and told him to go back to the states and take care of his legal issue. I believe it was a child support thing. No reason why the IRS could not do the same or Embassy just refuse to issue you a passport due to IRS warrant.

The IRS cannot restrict a citizens right to "movement". There was a bill in 2012 that was never passed

that would have had passports confiscated if you owed more than 50,000 USD to the IRS.

I know, because I owe and recently had my passport renewed.

The IRS are thugs, pure and simple, mafia-like in the way they do business.

http://modernsurvivalblog.com/current-events-economics-politics/new-irs-powers-to-revoke-citizen-passports/

[stevenl]

I have good news:for 2400$ you can relinquishe your US citizenship(great country by the way and US people are wonderful people, so smart, thin, healthy ... , I don't think I could live somewhere else, I love USA. ) and be free from irs. before it was 450 bucks.

last month my European bank sent me a form I have to sign every year asking if I m a USA person. the form is a USA form so I don't give so much s...t about it. I just signed it and send it back.

guess what? the bank in question sent me back the form and told me I have to write down where I suppose to pay my tax.

So I wrote I pay my tax in my European country(I m not really as my residence is no where and that s legal In my country of citizenship ) and I sent the form back.

the crazy thing is all these forms are just to chase US person and kick them out. more and more I see it s worse and worse for USA people since they have implemented this fatca crap.

if you have another nationality like me, you should consider leaving the USA for good and never go back.

When I read this BS post, I imagine you looking exactly like the person in your avatar.

If you're accusing somebody of writing BS, at least have the decency to say what is BS in that post.

[thaifamilyguy]

Simple, if you have a guy from IRS with 30 years experience he can tell you what state of play is. , IRS moves slow, though like an elephant who cares once it sits on you. So I would rely on your attorney's advice as to risk at this hearing...if it is still somebody being debated, etc., you have obviously engaged on it with counsel, etc., then I would be surprised if there is any risk at all at this stage.

[ClutchClark]

How does he get the cash to put into his Bitcoin wallet ?

He downloads and installs the Bitcoin-Qt wallet for free from bitcoin.org.

He visits localbitcoins.com and finds a seller who will either meet at Starbucks or who accepts a bank deposit (no personal information required). The bitcoins are then released from localbitcoin.com's escrow account into his free and unregistered wallet.

This will work with any bank in Thailand (Kbank, BBank, SCB, etc...) or USA or anywhere in the world.

How does he pay for his pre-paid VISA cards ?

He buys them for cash at 7-11 or Wal-Mart.

Why would the IRS want his cash out of tofu in his freezer ?

Exactly. That's where he keeps his physical currency.

I am not trolling. I respect and fear the power and might of the IRS and if you don't want to believe me then ask Wesley Snipes or read about Al Capone and many, many, others who thought they could out smart the IRS

I agree, he's probably a tax evader and deserves whatever he gets but posters on here go on ad nausea about how its impossible to live without an account at Bangkok Bank and Bank of America and gubmit gonna get you no matter what -- ridiculous. I hope this info ends up helping that 1/100 guy who really is being persecuted.

Not disagreeing but hasn't Bitcoin lost about half its value in a 6-10 months?

Doesn't exactly seem like a low-cost safe bet to me.

[ClutchClark]

Simple, if you have a guy from IRS with 30 years experience he can tell you what state of play is. , IRS moves slow, though like an elephant who cares once it sits on you. So I would rely on your attorney's advice as to risk at this hearing...if it is still somebody being debated, etc., you have obviously engaged on it with counsel, etc., then I would be surprised if there is any risk at all at this stage.

I don't quite understand your post but there have been plenty of tax attorneys whose clients have lost by trusting them.

And there seems to be a plethora of old IRS attorneys with secret knowledge of how to beat the IRS--in fact, it seems like everyone I have ever known who needed an attorney seemed to get one of these guys--and many still lost.

Because if you owe the money then the fanciest attorney in the country can't make that debt disappear.

Only paying the fiddler can do that.

[thailiketoo]

Simple, if you have a guy from IRS with 30 years experience he can tell you what state of play is. , IRS moves slow, though like an elephant who cares once it sits on you. So I would rely on your attorney's advice as to risk at this hearing...if it is still somebody being debated, etc., you have obviously engaged on it with counsel, etc., then I would be surprised if there is any risk at all at this stage.

I don't quite understand your post but there have been plenty of tax attorneys whose clients have lost by trusting them.

And there seems to be a plethora of old IRS attorneys with secret knowledge of how to beat the IRS--in fact, it seems like everyone I have ever known who needed an attorney seemed to get one of these guys--and many still lost.

Because if you owe the money then the fanciest attorney in the country can't make that debt disappear.

Only paying the fiddler can do that.

The IRS agrees with you. They wanted to be able to pull the passports of the fellas who owed them money without due process. Lucky those fancy attorneys prevented the bill from passing.

[ClutchClark]

Simple, if you have a guy from IRS with 30 years experience he can tell you what state of play is. , IRS moves slow, though like an elephant who cares once it sits on you. So I would rely on your attorney's advice as to risk at this hearing...if it is still somebody being debated, etc., you have obviously engaged on it with counsel, etc., then I would be surprised if there is any risk at all at this stage.

I don't quite understand your post but there have been plenty of tax attorneys whose clients have lost by trusting them.

And there seems to be a plethora of old IRS attorneys with secret knowledge of how to beat the IRS--in fact, it seems like everyone I have ever known who needed an attorney seemed to get one of these guys--and many still lost.

Because if you owe the money then the fanciest attorney in the country can't make that debt disappear.

Only paying the fiddler can do that.

The IRS agrees with you. They wanted to be able to pull the passports of the fellas who owed them money without due process. Lucky those fancy attorneys prevented the bill from passing.

The IRS can seize assets without Due Process so this point you keep reiterating is not relevant here.

Furthermore, it would be beneficial to you to review what Due Process is.

In the case of the IRS, revoking a passport of a US citizen convicted of a tax liability would qualify under Due Process only IF it occurred without the following:

1) Written Notice to fully inform the individual of the decision or activity that will have an effect on his/her rights or property or person.

2) Right of taxpayer to disagree.

3) Right of taxpayer to appeal the decision.

In the event that an appeal was lost and determination the debt is owed the IRS, then the IRS has met the requirements of giving Due Process and may begin collection procedures approved by US Law, including seizure of property (assets). The legal issue with the IRS legislation to date is that it is being attempted to empower the IRS to revoke passports "Administratively" rather than through the Courts. The courts have already set a precedent allowing the US Gov't to suspend travel to citizens in an effort to collect a debt when it began revoking deadbeat dad's passports for debts as low as $2,500. The reason this is allowed is because the deadbeat dads cases were heard in court. It is quite likely that future Bills on this topic will occur since quite alot of unpaid tax dollars are at stake. The future legislation will change the authority from "Administrative" to "Judicial" and will have a good chance of passage.

And it was not tax attorneys who fought against the legislation, it was actually Republican Congressmen and Civil Rights attorneys.

Regards

[thailiketoo]

Simple, if you have a guy from IRS with 30 years experience he can tell you what state of play is. , IRS moves slow, though like an elephant who cares once it sits on you. So I would rely on your attorney's advice as to risk at this hearing...if it is still somebody being debated, etc., you have obviously engaged on it with counsel, etc., then I would be surprised if there is any risk at all at this stage.

I don't quite understand your post but there have been plenty of tax attorneys whose clients have lost by trusting them.

And there seems to be a plethora of old IRS attorneys with secret knowledge of how to beat the IRS--in fact, it seems like everyone I have ever known who needed an attorney seemed to get one of these guys--and many still lost.

Because if you owe the money then the fanciest attorney in the country can't make that debt disappear.

Only paying the fiddler can do that.

The IRS agrees with you. They wanted to be able to pull the passports of the fellas who owed them money without due process. Lucky those fancy attorneys prevented the bill from passing.

The IRS can seize assets without Due Process so this point you keep reiterating is not relevant here.

Furthermore, it would be beneficial to you to review what Due Process is.

In the case of the IRS, revoking a passport of a US citizen convicted of a tax liability would qualify under Due Process only IF it occurred without the following:

1) Written Notice to fully inform the individual of the decision or activity that will have an effect on his/her rights or property or person.

2) Right of taxpayer to disagree.

3) Right of taxpayer to appeal the decision.

In the event that an appeal was lost and determination the debt is owed the IRS, then the IRS has met the requirements of giving Due Process and may begin collection procedures approved by US Law, including seizure of property (assets). The legal issue with the IRS legislation to date is that it is being attempted to empower the IRS to revoke passports "Administratively" rather than through the Courts. The courts have already set a precedent allowing the US Gov't to suspend travel to citizens in an effort to collect a debt when it began revoking deadbeat dad's passports for debts as low as $2,500. The reason this is allowed is because the deadbeat dads cases were heard in court. It is quite likely that future Bills on this topic will occur since quite alot of unpaid tax dollars are at stake. The future legislation will change the authority from "Administrative" to "Judicial" and will have a good chance of passage.

And it was not tax attorneys who fought against the legislation, it was actually Republican Congressmen and Civil Rights attorneys.

Regards

I wrote, "The IRS agrees with you. They wanted to be able to pull the passports of the fellas who owed them money without due process. Lucky those fancy attorneys prevented the bill from passing."

Merely owing back taxes on its own does not rise to the level of having committed a crime, nor does it mean that an arrest warrant has automatically been issued.

In March 2013, Senator Reid introduced a proposal that would allow the IRS to instruct the State Department to cancel, or not renew, or not issue a US passport to any individual who owes (in their opinion) more than $50,000 in taxes to the US Treasury. This proposal did not pass.

Seems your knowledge of the issue comes from enforcement experience. I was only trying to help the OP and not bring up things like child support (deadbeat dads) or other issues to cloud the original question.

If you have any factual information about passport/IRS laws changing I'm sure we'd all be interested to hear it.

[ubonjoe]

Since I have again had to remove an off topic post and the OP has gotten various answers to his question this topic is now closed.