Foreign ownership regulations need to be changed, says SEC

[Fab5BKK]

The government won't even understand it. They are soldiers, not politicians or civil servants in that field.

It's like putting a welder in charge of an ice cream factory.

I have met many extremely capable soldiers in my time that were intelligent, humane, honourable, analytical and wonderful leaders, qualities that would put most politicians or civil servants to shame.

Just because they wear boots, doesn't make them incompetent in politics.

A soldier is an expert in war. He had been trained for it, he has the background as well.

On another hand business exec is good at running a business.

I don't expect a soldier runs a business or a businessman goes to war.

As well, I don't expect my dentist to pilot a Boeing 777...

Just my 2 cents...

[wilcopops]

It's reported elsewhere that a senior Japanese diplomat in BKK has warned that if the plans to tighten the provisions of the Foreign Business Act go ahead at least half of the Japanese companies here will be waving ' Bye ' Bye.

Will the govt pay any attention or will face, bravado and ' never happen ' attitudes prevail and the risk is taken ?

Not so long ago a Thai official said companies in Europe were in trouble and Thai investors should get in there and fill their boots.

Completely different of course.

last time a military govt caused a stock market crash with their attempts to regulate foreigners doing business in Thailand - it looks like this time after an initial blunder and complaints form Japan, they may now be trying a u-turn?

Edited November 10, 2014 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

I've had this conversation before with a few Thai People, and 99 percent of them, don't want Foreigners to own anything, ??? But they are happy to own stuff abroad if they live in that Country.

I explained to them that , that was the same, but they could not see it ???

For me, it would be a Great start if they could move into the 21st Century and clean the place up, in all respects....

But you are forgetting how poor and downtrodden the vast majority of Thai's actually are, they need the protectionism so that they don't get taken advantage of by all the really bad horrible greedy corrupt people outside the borders of Thailand.

Of course, it's fine for really bad horrible greedy corrupt people native to Thailand to take advantage of each other (and foreigners), but for a foreigner to do it is bad on so many levels.

The hypocrisy and double-standards here are laughable.

On another note, I know of 12 businesses in the last 6 months that have stopped being registered in Thailand and have moved to be registered in other Asian countries that don't have such stupidly blind restrictive policies. They won't ever be back no matter what Thailand does to change things and I'm sure there are many, many others.

protectionism in the long term maintains poverty. in developing countries it helps to establish an industry, but Thailand is now - I think - beyond that phase and needs to trade with the world in a less parochial way.

[wilcopops]

It's reported elsewhere that a senior Japanese diplomat in BKK has warned that if the plans to tighten the provisions of the Foreign Business Act go ahead at least half of the Japanese companies here will be waving ' Bye ' Bye.

Will the govt pay any attention or will face, bravado and ' never happen ' attitudes prevail and the risk is taken ?

Not so long ago a Thai official said companies in Europe were in trouble and Thai investors should get in there and fill their boots.

Completely different of course.

The government won't even understand it. They are soldiers, not politicians or civil servants in that field.

It's like putting a welder in charge of an ice cream factory.

Well but I suppose a welder can understand how to run an ice cream factory, if he tries his best and ask specialists.....After say 6 month he should have some basic understanding of it.

..only a welder would think like that......

[BirdsandBooze]

Personally, I think the Thais have got this one right.

Some decades ago now, 'my' home country, Scotland, was sold off in huge lots to foreign buyers, particularly from Japan. Now a lot of Scotland is owned by non-Scots and it is my opinion that this should not have been allowed.

That's true, and much of the land is used as sporting estates and closed to the public. The Dutch owner of Makro is the largest foreign landowner, about 80,000 acres. Most of Scotland's land is owned by the aristocracy (one of them holds over 240,000 acres) and wealthy foreigners.

[JarekN]

Investing in Thailand?! LOL you've got a better chance at a Casino

[jaltsc]

I've had this conversation before with a few Thai People, and 99 percent of them, don't want Foreigners to own anything, ??? But they are happy to own stuff abroad if they live in that Country.

I explained to them that , that was the same, but they could not see it ???

For me, it would be a Great start if they could move into the 21st Century and clean the place up, in all respects....

For me, I like it just the way it is. We can expect to see Thailand remaining on the lower rung of the economic ladder, thus keeping it as one of the most affordable places for expats to retire. I don't care if they think they are insulting me and putting farangs down all the time. I wake up in the morning and see the poor laborers walking to the fields for 300 baht a day, knowing that my meager pension (by western standards) will continue to buy me a life I could only dream of had I not retired in Thailand. To all those in power who keep Thailand 100 years behind the times...Thank You Mak, Mak, Mak.

[SteveFong]

are the ropes tightening on foreign investment in Thailand?

is this a quiet step towards actual nationalization, ala Huge Chavez?

[wilcopops]

one trying about "selling land" - is that the buyer - if foreign - can't take it home with him.

In UK - (I believe including Scotland) ALL land belongs to the crown - freehold is use in perpetuity and does not include anything under the land......

[Manbing]

ASEAN is going to mean that trade barriers for all of the 10 member states, as well as other Chinese trade agreements, will make FDI a very competitive field.

Thailand is fighting other countries for opportunities to attract investment.

Removing ownership regs and making the country easier to invest in, is important. This is about clearing the way for manufacturing contracts. Not selling off large chunks of the country.

Thailand has been losing ground to other regional manufacturers with similar manufacturing and logistical infrastructure. Like Vietnam. It's time to clear away any issues that can improve competitiveness.

[Laughing Gravy]

I've had this conversation before with a few Thai People, and 99 percent of them, don't want Foreigners to own anything, ??? But they are happy to own stuff abroad if they live in that Country.

I explained to them that , that was the same, but they could not see it ???

For me, it would be a Great start if they could move into the 21st Century and clean the place up, in all respects....

For me, I like it just the way it is. We can expect to see Thailand remaining on the lower rung of the economic ladder, thus keeping it as one of the most affordable places for expats to retire. I don't care if they think they are insulting me and putting farangs down all the time. I wake up in the morning and see the poor laborers walking to the fields for 300 baht a day, knowing that my meager pension (by western standards) will continue to buy me a life I could only dream of had I not retired in Thailand. To all those in power who keep Thailand 100 years behind the times...Thank You Mak, Mak, Mak.

What a wonderful selfless human being you are. You should be so proud!

So you are OK which I am pleased for you. Changing those practices that will help them poor labourers from earning 300 Baht will not affect you so much. You should be ashamed of yourself. Maybe Karma will deal you the hand that the poor labourers get. Lets see if then you thank those in power for keeping the country 100 years behind the times. Mak Mak

[Robert24]

I don't think they will tighten the FBA. The government already said that there are no such intentions and as you see from this article the discussion is going the other way, ie relaxing some of the restrictions in the FBA.

[jabis]

ASEAN is going to mean that trade barriers for all of the 10 member states, as well as other Chinese trade agreements, will make FDI a very competitive field.

Thailand is fighting other countries for opportunities to attract investment.

Removing ownership regs and making the country easier to invest in, is important. This is about clearing the way for manufacturing contracts. Not selling off large chunks of the country.

Thailand has been losing ground to other regional manufacturers with similar manufacturing and logistical infrastructure. Like Vietnam. It's time to clear away any issues that can improve competitiveness.

Surely that would be the logical way - somehow the ultra-nationalistic approach of TH Krasuang Phanit does not seem to be heading that way, but instead throws some more bones to the machinery. Certainly not the desired direction :/

[SOTIRIOS]

....carry that over to the private level ........to put a stop to the endless scams and ripoffs against foreign men.....

...where 'the wife has to own everything'......seems like a 'no-brainer'......

[wilcopops]

I don't think they will tighten the FBA. The government already said that there are no such intentions and as you see from this article the discussion is going the other way, ie relaxing some of the restrictions in the FBA.

looks to me that someone made a crap decision that would have caused a serious loss in confidence amongst major foreign companies - e.g. Japan - who complained - and now this announcement has been made to ease the situation without the other dubious decision-maker losing face.

[bkk_mike]

Personally, I think the Thais have got this one right.

Some decades ago now, 'my' home country, Scotland, was sold off in huge lots to foreign buyers, particularly from Japan. Now a lot of Scotland is owned by non-Scots and it is my opinion that this should not have been allowed.

ah Scotland permitted foreign free hold sorta ownership oops, probably about as a big a screw up as the unregulated feudal system they land ownership exists under.

Westminster has been trying to drag Scotland to the 21 st century and entirely failed due to intransigent Scotland. And your complaining that the land is in foreign hands, the Scotland land case is an exceptional example as the last frontier of backwards all you can eat land acquisitions left in Europe or anywhere relevant. Most countries are a little more protective of their dirt than than cash n carry Scotland.

Bring some regulation to the environment claim back your land and be happy, won't get fixed till you fix yourself own system first.

The feudal land system in Scotland was abolished in 2004.

Personally, I think the Thai way is a bit OTT, but on the other hand, it does stop wealthy Japanese buying the whole country. (Have heard Australians complain about that in Oz...)

From an economic perspective, it's either short-sighted in that it reduces foreign investment, or incredibly long-sighted, in that it holds property prices down at a level where normal Thais can still afford a place to live in Bangkok.

[jcisco]

one trying about "selling land" - is that the buyer - if foreign - can't take it home with him.

In UK - (I believe including Scotland) ALL land belongs to the crown - freehold is use in perpetuity and does not include anything under the land......

all land belongs to the commonwealth at the core of it all, kinda a non answer in a way but you are correct.

[wilcopops]

Personally, I think the Thais have got this one right.

Some decades ago now, 'my' home country, Scotland, was sold off in huge lots to foreign buyers, particularly from Japan. Now a lot of Scotland is owned by non-Scots and it is my opinion that this should not have been allowed.

ah Scotland permitted foreign free hold sorta ownership oops, probably about as a big a screw up as the unregulated feudal system they land ownership exists under.

Westminster has been trying to drag Scotland to the 21 st century and entirely failed due to intransigent Scotland. And your complaining that the land is in foreign hands, the Scotland land case is an exceptional example as the last frontier of backwards all you can eat land acquisitions left in Europe or anywhere relevant. Most countries are a little more protective of their dirt than than cash n carry Scotland.

Bring some regulation to the environment claim back your land and be happy, won't get fixed till you fix yourself own system first.

The feudal land system in Scotland was abolished in 2004.

Personally, I think the Thai way is a bit OTT, but on the other hand, it does stop wealthy Japanese buying the whole country. (Have heard Australians complain about that in Oz...)

From an economic perspective, it's either short-sighted in that it reduces foreign investment, or incredibly long-sighted, in that it holds property prices down at a level where normal Thais can still afford a place to live in Bangkok.

It is common all per the world for people to complain about "foreigners" owning too much land, business etc etc - - - if you stand back you begin to see this isn't in general based on any concrete concerns, it is just another form of xenophobia.

[Baerboxer]

are the ropes tightening on foreign investment in Thailand?

is this a quiet step towards actual nationalization, ala Huge Chavez?

The problem Steve, is that any government can make things up as they go and change the rules at anytime. The legal squabbles about what they can and can't change only applies when one side wants to change the rules of the political game. When it comes to foreigners and foreign businesses then they can, will and do as they like.

You have to be very careful in your choice of Thai partner, for they will have the control. That is what this government want, full control only in the hands of Thais. Stop all ways for foreigners to skirt around the current rules to retain real control.

Even things do go pear shaped, would you want to rely on Thai lawyers and the Thai legal system for justice against probably well connected Thai nationals?

If the rules were different I would move all my assets here, open a business and hopefully add something to the community. No chance under the current very one sided protectionist xenophobic conditions.

[jabis]

Personally, I think the Thais have got this one right.

Some decades ago now, 'my' home country, Scotland, was sold off in huge lots to foreign buyers, particularly from Japan. Now a lot of Scotland is owned by non-Scots and it is my opinion that this should not have been allowed.

ah Scotland permitted foreign free hold sorta ownership oops, probably about as a big a screw up as the unregulated feudal system they land ownership exists under.

Westminster has been trying to drag Scotland to the 21 st century and entirely failed due to intransigent Scotland. And your complaining that the land is in foreign hands, the Scotland land case is an exceptional example as the last frontier of backwards all you can eat land acquisitions left in Europe or anywhere relevant. Most countries are a little more protective of their dirt than than cash n carry Scotland.

Bring some regulation to the environment claim back your land and be happy, won't get fixed till you fix yourself own system first.

The feudal land system in Scotland was abolished in 2004.

Personally, I think the Thai way is a bit OTT, but on the other hand, it does stop wealthy Japanese buying the whole country. (Have heard Australians complain about that in Oz...)

From an economic perspective, it's either short-sighted in that it reduces foreign investment, or incredibly long-sighted, in that it holds property prices down at a level where normal Thais can still afford a place to live in Bangkok.

The good and bad in protectionism - however money tends to gather where money resides. If you ef up the existing domestic market by such implosion - it will not be the foreign life affected, or in anyway more dire than repelling any further investment, but relocate the existing investment base to a more secured location - and looking at the area, the neighbours are already harvesting billions, if not more, baht in investment.

E:Typos

Edited November 10, 2014 by jabis

[jcisco]

The feudal land system in Scotland was abolished in 2004.

Personally, I think the Thai way is a bit OTT, but on the other hand, it does stop wealthy Japanese buying the whole country. (Have heard Australians complain about that in Oz...)

From an economic perspective, it's either short-sighted in that it reduces foreign investment, or incredibly long-sighted, in that it holds property prices down at a level where normal Thais can still afford a place to live in Bangkok.

You are right thanks for clarifying the present rather than the history walk we were on.

I don't see that permitting foreign land title is instrumental in attracting foreign businesses. And in fact simply providing lease hold titles for land usage under primary commercial use would meet most peoples needs. While baring the the transfer of leases into residential use may address concerns of property developers coming on the scene and heating up the market for example.

Singapore allows strata title for personal holdings and lease hold to a local corp for land if I recall correctly. And this seems to work.

the land issue is a distraction from much more important Fba topics.

[wilcopops]

It's reported elsewhere that a senior Japanese diplomat in BKK has warned that if the plans to tighten the provisions of the Foreign Business Act go ahead at least half of the Japanese companies here will be waving ' Bye ' Bye.

Will the govt pay any attention or will face, bravado and ' never happen ' attitudes prevail and the risk is taken ?

Not so long ago a Thai official said companies in Europe were in trouble and Thai investors should get in there and fill their boots.

Completely different of course.

Pridiyathorn - isn't this the same guy who the Chinese called an incompetent flip-flopper when he caused hate crash under the last coup govt?

from Wiki...

"Pridiyathorn instituted capital controls to attempt to reverse a strengthening of the baht, but reversed the measure after the Thai stock market crashed, destroying US$20 billion of market value in one day. Pridiyathorn later noted that “This was not a mistake. Measures always have side effects. Once we knew the side effects, we quickly fixed it.... Just one day of stocks falling is not considered much damage.”"

"Bratin Sanyal, head of Asian equity investments at ING in Hong Kong noted, "The one thing worse than an incompetent central bank is an incompetent central bank that flip-flops." Catherine Tan, head of Asia Emerging Markets at Forecast in Singapore, noted, "They are proving themselves to be very unprofessional. Their actions are very irresponsible. They have totally lost credibility... I don't see foreigners returning to Thailand any time in the near future. Markets now have no confidence in the government."^[15] The Export-Import Bank of Thailand also criticized the capital controls."

Sounds familiar?

Edited November 10, 2014 by wilcopops

[Fab5BKK]

Quite "unbalanced" the Thais

They want to export (eg; cars, they produce 2 millions a year and aim to export 1/2 of it) but they block imports with high taxes

Personally, I think the Thais have got this one right.

Some decades ago now, 'my' home country, Scotland, was sold off in huge lots to foreign buyers, particularly from Japan. Now a lot of Scotland is owned by non-Scots and it is my opinion that this should not have been allowed.

ah Scotland permitted foreign free hold sorta ownership oops, probably about as a big a screw up as the unregulated feudal system they land ownership exists under.

Westminster has been trying to drag Scotland to the 21 st century and entirely failed due to intransigent Scotland. And your complaining that the land is in foreign hands, the Scotland land case is an exceptional example as the last frontier of backwards all you can eat land acquisitions left in Europe or anywhere relevant. Most countries are a little more protective of their dirt than than cash n carry Scotland.

Bring some regulation to the environment claim back your land and be happy, won't get fixed till you fix yourself own system first.

The feudal land system in Scotland was abolished in 2004.

Personally, I think the Thai way is a bit OTT, but on the other hand, it does stop wealthy Japanese buying the whole country. (Have heard Australians complain about that in Oz...)

From an economic perspective, it's either short-sighted in that it reduces foreign investment, or incredibly long-sighted, in that it holds property prices down at a level where normal Thais can still afford a place to live in Bangkok.

The good and bad in protectionism - however money tends to gather where money resides. If you ef up the existing domestic market by such implosion - it will not be the foreign life affected, or in anyway more dire than repelling any further investment, but relocate the existing investment base to a more secured location - and looking at the area, the neighbours are already harvesting billions, if not more, baht in investment.

E:Typos

[animatic]

It's reported elsewhere that a senior Japanese diplomat in BKK has warned that if the plans to tighten the provisions of the Foreign Business Act go ahead at least half of the Japanese companies here will be waving ' Bye ' Bye.

Will the govt pay any attention or will face, bravado and ' never happen ' attitudes prevail and the risk is taken ?

Not so long ago a Thai official said companies in Europe were in trouble and Thai investors should get in there and fill their boots.

Completely different of course.

The government won't even understand it. They are soldiers, not politicians or civil servants in that field.

It's like putting a welder in charge of an ice cream factory.

This is logical business sense, coming from a high official, that will benefit the country greatly.

That a big wig Japanese investor has give a shot across the bows to go the other way

from tightening regulations makes sense when we see this pronouncement.

Devakula will understand it and try to explain it to the current leadership.

The Nationalists will HATE IT, and work to remove her from office before the new year.

[realenglish1]

Foreign ownership of companies and foreign ownership of a House I am not saying multiple houses but a single house.

What is the government afraid of. This only makes the country stronger not weaker. This will not only attract foreign money but create good growth. They can become the leader in the region if they want to or NOT

They are missing the boat with this

[Prbkk]

Foreign ownership of companies and foreign ownership of a House I am not saying multiple houses but a single house.

What is the government afraid of. This only makes the country stronger not weaker. This will not only attract foreign money but create good growth. They can become the leader in the region if they want to or NOT

They are missing the boat with this

They are seriously missing the boat. In fact the ship has long since sailed. Aside from the ludicrous restraints on business, even simple matters of property ownership and repatriation of funds are major issues. Every time a change is contemplated it's either shot down by uber nationalist fears over land or some kind of concern that George Soros will come back.It's too silly for words.

[Robert24]

The Bangkok Post's headline on the article warning of an "exodus" of Japanese investment seems a bit overblown and sensationalized, based on what the article actually says.

The article starts out talking about potentially half of Japanese companies being AFFECTED by the proposed change. But then further down in the article, in fact, the Japanese minister is quoted is saying that IF the latest FBA amendment were to pass, many of the impacted Japanese companies probably WOULD choose to surrender operational control rather than withdraw their investment from Thailand.

Meanwhile, you've got to wonder about their political sense when the same guy is quoted as saying that "no one" (in his world, prior to the latest one) expected there would be another military coup in Thailand. Has there ever been a time in Thailand's recent political history where there wasn't another one in the offing somewhere???

I think the report in the Bangkokpost was rubbish. The government already commented that they are not planning to tighten the FBA. It was indeed an anti government sensationalized article.

But I would agree that the government could better articulate their strategy with regards to foreign investments and regulations about it rather than leave it to the English speaking press to make a drama about non-planned tightening of the FBA. Instead the government talks about things people care about in their daily lives like food prices, lottery tickets. I have no problems with this but bottom line is that they have limited influence over small things like this but they have a lot more influence over regulations.

[harryfrompattaya]

I am still waiting for evidence that any US business was intending to increase their investment in Thailand,

on the contrary,

the US administration is trying to find ways of bringing back all the money that US corporations have over seas back to the US to create more jobs here before they have revolts

I see you missed the IBM, GM, Ford, Intel, Apple Dell factories in Nakon Nowhere

Well look

[Robert24]

It's reported elsewhere that a senior Japanese diplomat in BKK has warned that if the plans to tighten the provisions of the Foreign Business Act go ahead at least half of the Japanese companies here will be waving ' Bye ' Bye.

Will the govt pay any attention or will face, bravado and ' never happen ' attitudes prevail and the risk is taken ?

Not so long ago a Thai official said companies in Europe were in trouble and Thai investors should get in there and fill their boots.

Completely different of course.

Pridiyathorn - isn't this the same guy who the Chinese called an incompetent flip-flopper when he caused hate crash under the last coup govt?

from Wiki...

"Pridiyathorn instituted capital controls to attempt to reverse a strengthening of the baht, but reversed the measure after the Thai stock market crashed, destroying US$20 billion of market value in one day. Pridiyathorn later noted that “This was not a mistake. Measures always have side effects. Once we knew the side effects, we quickly fixed it.... Just one day of stocks falling is not considered much damage.”"

"Bratin Sanyal, head of Asian equity investments at ING in Hong Kong noted, "The one thing worse than an incompetent central bank is an incompetent central bank that flip-flops." Catherine Tan, head of Asia Emerging Markets at Forecast in Singapore, noted, "They are proving themselves to be very unprofessional. Their actions are very irresponsible. They have totally lost credibility... I don't see foreigners returning to Thailand any time in the near future. Markets now have no confidence in the government."^[15] The Export-Import Bank of Thailand also criticized the capital controls."

Sounds familiar?

To be fair this was 2007 and Pridiyathorn already mentioned that they are not going to try to tighten the FBA since he has seen the negative impacts from the measures implemented in 2007.

And by the way foreigners have returned to Thailand in a big way since 2007 despite some the broker's comments above.

[jabis]

The Bangkok Post's headline on the article warning of an "exodus" of Japanese investment seems a bit overblown and sensationalized, based on what the article actually says.

The article starts out talking about potentially half of Japanese companies being AFFECTED by the proposed change. But then further down in the article, in fact, the Japanese minister is quoted is saying that IF the latest FBA amendment were to pass, many of the impacted Japanese companies probably WOULD choose to surrender operational control rather than withdraw their investment from Thailand.

Meanwhile, you've got to wonder about their political sense when the same guy is quoted as saying that "no one" (in his world, prior to the latest one) expected there would be another military coup in Thailand. Has there ever been a time in Thailand's recent political history where there wasn't another one in the offing somewhere???

I think the report in the Bangkokpost was rubbish. The government already commented that they are not planning to tighten the FBA. It was indeed an anti government sensationalized article.

But I would agree that the government could better articulate their strategy with regards to foreign investments and regulations about it rather than leave it to the English speaking press to make a drama about non-planned tightening of the FBA. Instead the government talks about things people care about in their daily lives like food prices, lottery tickets. I have no problems with this but bottom line is that they have limited influence over small things like this but they have a lot more influence over regulations.

I'd like to hear how the proposed changes would not affect, in such a way that I described in previous posts, running a joint venture business in thailand? Nothing sensationalizing about the fact that joint venture businesses will have to relinquish control of the whole company policy to major shareholders and nominees - as opposed to having a board of directors who go by majority votes, as it is currently the way to legally operate.

Edited November 10, 2014 by jabis