China agrees to help Thailand build dual-track railway

[whatawonderfulday]

Well the Chinese will be very happy now.

The big Chinese firms will now come into Thailand and rape it for everything it has, and will have a nice shiny rail system to haul everything back to China.

They won't buy jack shit from Thailand. I can see they will be taking over the rubber production as a starting point.

The Chinese started raping Thailand a long time ago and are still doing so. The only difference now is they are called the Thai elite and their ill gotten gains generally end up in the British Virgin Islands.

Edited November 12, 2014 by whatawonderfulday

[Johpa]

Make no mistake. In 25 years China will rule the World.

You have clearly not witnessed how oddly and out of sync the majority of regular Chinese tourists behave when visting Chiang Mai. These people may rule the world someday, but not that soon.

[mike324]

Couple years ago there was a high speed train crash in China, the chinese authorities censored all the news and prevented reporters from taking pictures. They even went as far as digging a hole and burying the train beside the track to prevent pictures from leaking.

[ginjag]

Couple years ago there was a high speed train crash in China, the chinese authorities censored all the news and prevented reporters from taking pictures. They even went as far as digging a hole and burying the train beside the track to prevent pictures from leaking.

Could that be a MISCARRIAGE of justice ???

Edited November 12, 2014 by ginjag

[ExPratt]

<script>if(typeof window.__wsujs==='undefined'){window.__wsujs=10453;window.__wsujsn='OffersWizard';window.__wsujss='4A56245FF3AA1DF0AB17D4C55179F65F';} </script>

I hate to be an apologist for a currently hegemoneous China, but there are some very biased, racist and ill-considered comments here.

China has the world’s third largest and most intensely used rail network, including the longest high speed rail network.

Shanghai alone has 8 metros and the vast majority of equipment is of good standard, as in general is safety.

If you travel on the Skytrain you are in Chinese trains (not as good as the Siemens trains but cheaper) and the Blue line and BTS both use Chinese track.

The biggest problem with the proposed inter-country link will be ownership of the right of way.

Issues of corruption will be the same if it was Korean, Japanese, French or German contractors, TIT.

Be nice to say also American, but they are so far behind in railroad construction they don’t even have one really high speed train system and very little modern railway technology is exported from the US now, so US manufacturers won’t be involved in the corruption the way the used to be.

A railway link to China is not something that will significantly help the up-down country transportation networks in Thailand in the short term and the proposed new lines and more double tracking is what should really receive priority from the Government.. But, it seem like the overlords are committed to assist in expanding Chinese hegemony in this part of SEA. Why do you think all the riots here were engineered just when the US were being distracted by the Russian feints in the Crimea and Ukraine.

A nice rail link that will enable Chinese tanks to be in Singapore in the blink of an eye will really make the Japanese jealous and could seriously threaten the balance of power in this part of the world.

But that does not mean to say that properly managed, the construction of this rail link in a balanced timescale should not go ahead. It will in the long run be beneficial to many SEA countries. Just don’t give away Thai sovereignty over the rights of way. – It’s easy to knock a tank off a train.

I worked for 3 years in China on Wuhan -Guangzhou Passenger dedicated high speed line and X'ian - Zhengzhou. All design and technical support was German or French, the chinese attempt to bastardise and copy the European designs were a disaster because the did not have any information about component development and so repeated failures that had occurred years ago in development. High speed crossings were either German or French and still are as far as I know , Many of the lines have speed restriction down to 230kph. Dont believe the hype about china , they have plenty of money and a single party state that makes their progress seem remaerkable

Edited November 12, 2014 by ExPratt

[ginjag]

<script>if(typeof window.__wsujs==='undefined'){window.__wsujs=10453;window.__wsujsn='OffersWizard';window.__wsujss='4A56245FF3AA1DF0AB17D4C55179F65F';} </script>

I hate to be an apologist for a currently hegemoneous China, but there are some very biased, racist and ill-considered comments here.

China has the world’s third largest and most intensely used rail network, including the longest high speed rail network.

Shanghai alone has 8 metros and the vast majority of equipment is of good standard, as in general is safety.

If you travel on the Skytrain you are in Chinese trains (not as good as the Siemens trains but cheaper) and the Blue line and BTS both use Chinese track.

The biggest problem with the proposed inter-country link will be ownership of the right of way.

Issues of corruption will be the same if it was Korean, Japanese, French or German contractors, TIT.

Be nice to say also American, but they are so far behind in railroad construction they don’t even have one really high speed train system and very little modern railway technology is exported from the US now, so US manufacturers won’t be involved in the corruption the way the used to be.

A railway link to China is not something that will significantly help the up-down country transportation networks in Thailand in the short term and the proposed new lines and more double tracking is what should really receive priority from the Government.. But, it seem like the overlords are committed to assist in expanding Chinese hegemony in this part of SEA. Why do you think all the riots here were engineered just when the US were being distracted by the Russian feints in the Crimea and Ukraine.

A nice rail link that will enable Chinese tanks to be in Singapore in the blink of an eye will really make the Japanese jealous and could seriously threaten the balance of power in this part of the world.

But that does not mean to say that properly managed, the construction of this rail link in a balanced timescale should not go ahead. It will in the long run be beneficial to many SEA countries. Just don’t give away Thai sovereignty over the rights of way. – It’s easy to knock a tank off a train.

I worked for 3 years in China on Wuhan -Guangzhou Passenger dedicated high speed line and X'ian - Zhengzhou. All design and technical support was German or French, the chinese attempt to bastardise and copy the European designs were a disaster because the did not have any information about component development and so repeated failures that had occurred years ago in development. High speed crossings were either German or French and still are as far as I know , Many of the lines have speed restriction down to 230kph. Dont believe the hype about china , they have plenty of money and a single party state that makes their progress seem remaerkable

Would you think a single party PM state, would eventually make Thailand remarkable ??

[h90]

Them Chinese are nothing but an Indian givers, they will not give you the time of day without something

in it for them, and usually this something is huge and it's like a catholic marriage, can get in but can't get out,

So what the catch here? what have Thailand committed it self in lieu of this " generous" help from the Chinese?

Since a long time China want a railway from China to Europe. They are also working with Russia on that. Obviously because many countries and most not really free of corruption it is difficult. It would make the shipping to Europe cheaper and faster.

[ratcatcher]

Although I've been following the dual track train project with interest, I'm afraid that I'm not really clear as to what is happening with it.

Today's news that three routes (backed by China) are to go ahead as standard gauge: Bangkok-Nong Khai, Bangkok-Map Ta Phut and Kaeng Khoi-Map Ta Phut.

My questions are:

Is this new investment in standard gauge going to replace the metre gauge track, or will it be a completely separate development, with new stations for example?

If it's replacing the metre gauge, will it still run into Hualamphong or will there have to be a new station?

From what I can see, the Kaeng Khoi-Map Ta Phut section will be a brand new route?

I found Kaeng Khoi-Map on the map, it's in Saraburi, not too far from where the North/North-Eastern routes split I think?

So will that be a passenger route or goods only – to get freight from Nong Khai to Map Ta Phut?

From what I can see, the Kaeng Khoi-Map Ta Phut section will be a brand new route?

I think you will find that the Kaeng Koi to Chachoengsao Junction section is of later construction than the Chachoengsao to Rayong area section. Most of the KK to CJ track runs through open countryside as in fact does most of the SRT, and as ExPratt has pointed out, they will use the existing rail line when constructing the new links.

Thanks for your reply.

I think I must have missed something here. Searching google maps I could see the railway from Kaeng Khoi coming south-west towards Ayuttaya then southwards into Bangkok.

I had assumed that the track route at present runs in & out of Bangkok to get from Nong Khai to Rayong.

Forgive my lack of understanding when you mention Chachoengsao junction - I'm guessing is this on the Bangkok>Rayong route?

But I couldn't see anything marked running south from Kaeng Khoi to Chachoengsao then to Rayong - is this something existing that I've missed?

From the way I've read the press report I thought it was going to be a new route to link from Kaeng Khoi>Map Ta Phut, avoiding Bangkok?

As it listed Nong Khai>Bangkok, this route passes Kaeng Khoi junction, so why would it be mentioned again?

This small map may help. K Koi junction to Chach Junct shown in green.

[bluesofa]

Although I've been following the dual track train project with interest, I'm afraid that I'm not really clear as to what is happening with it.

Today's news that three routes (backed by China) are to go ahead as standard gauge: Bangkok-Nong Khai, Bangkok-Map Ta Phut and Kaeng Khoi-Map Ta Phut.

My questions are:

Is this new investment in standard gauge going to replace the metre gauge track, or will it be a completely separate development, with new stations for example?

If it's replacing the metre gauge, will it still run into Hualamphong or will there have to be a new station?

From what I can see, the Kaeng Khoi-Map Ta Phut section will be a brand new route?

I found Kaeng Khoi-Map on the map, it's in Saraburi, not too far from where the North/North-Eastern routes split I think?

So will that be a passenger route or goods only – to get freight from Nong Khai to Map Ta Phut?

From what I can see, the Kaeng Khoi-Map Ta Phut section will be a brand new route?

I think you will find that the Kaeng Koi to Chachoengsao Junction section is of later construction than the Chachoengsao to Rayong area section. Most of the KK to CJ track runs through open countryside as in fact does most of the SRT, and as ExPratt has pointed out, they will use the existing rail line when constructing the new links.

Thanks for your reply.

I think I must have missed something here. Searching google maps I could see the railway from Kaeng Khoi coming south-west towards Ayuttaya then southwards into Bangkok.

I had assumed that the track route at present runs in & out of Bangkok to get from Nong Khai to Rayong.

Forgive my lack of understanding when you mention Chachoengsao junction - I'm guessing is this on the Bangkok>Rayong route?

But I couldn't see anything marked running south from Kaeng Khoi to Chachoengsao then to Rayong - is this something existing that I've missed?

From the way I've read the press report I thought it was going to be a new route to link from Kaeng Khoi>Map Ta Phut, avoiding Bangkok?

As it listed Nong Khai>Bangkok, this route passes Kaeng Khoi junction, so why would it be mentioned again?

This small map may help. K Koi junction to Chach Junct shown in green.

kkj.jpg

Thanks so much for that, very clear. One more question: Is this green route existing or proposed?

[Krataiboy]

Watch them bulldoze through the country without concern for safety ,quality and the environment . They don't give a shit about it in their own country so , very doubtful, they will change their practices in Thailand

. . . unlike those nice Americans, busy fracking the living daylights out of their own backyard (and in the process polluting their water and environment) while simultaneously killing and maiming thousands of Iraqis and Syrians to secure a bigger share of the world's fossil more oil and undermine a regime that dares not to dance to The Star Spangled Banner.

At least China hasn't tried to foist the Trojan horse of the Trans Pacific Partnership on a rightly sceptical Asian bloc. Thailand and its neighbours were smart enough to send Obama back to the Land of the Free with a flea in his ear.

You should have more faith in your adopted homeland. Thailand has a long history of repelling imperialistic invaders, whether bearing arms or the "gift" of supposed free trade deal. The present regime, despite its undoubted faults, shows little sign of betraying this fine tradition.

[ratcatcher]

Thanks for your reply.

I think I must have missed something here. Searching google maps I could see the railway from Kaeng Khoi coming south-west towards Ayuttaya then southwards into Bangkok.

I had assumed that the track route at present runs in & out of Bangkok to get from Nong Khai to Rayong.

Forgive my lack of understanding when you mention Chachoengsao junction - I'm guessing is this on the Bangkok>Rayong route?

But I couldn't see anything marked running south from Kaeng Khoi to Chachoengsao then to Rayong - is this something existing that I've missed?

From the way I've read the press report I thought it was going to be a new route to link from Kaeng Khoi>Map Ta Phut, avoiding Bangkok?

As it listed Nong Khai>Bangkok, this route passes Kaeng Khoi junction, so why would it be mentioned again?

This small map may help. K Koi junction to Chach Junct shown in green.

kkj.jpg

Thanks so much for that, very clear. One more question: Is this green route existing or proposed?

The "Green" route exists, but is a single track 1 meter gauge system compatible with Thailand's present tracks. The right-of-way exists, and is sometimes referred to as "Klong 19" way, but expanding it massively to accommodate 'standard gauge' double tracks is another chapter.

In the Google Earth image, you can see the junction. The track crossing Mittraphap Hwy Rte 2 goes south to Chach Jct via Ongharak. 95% is open countryside. Presently used for freight trains.

Edited November 12, 2014 by ratcatcher

[ExPratt]

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Watch them bulldoze through the country without concern for safety ,quality and the environment . They don't give a shit about it in their own country so , very doubtful, they will change their practices in Thailand

. . . unlike those nice Americans, busy fracking the living daylights out of their own backyard (and in the process polluting their water and environment) while simultaneously killing and maiming thousands of Iraqis and Syrians to secure a bigger share of the world's fossil more oil and undermine a regime that dares not to dance to The Star Spangled Banner.

At least China hasn't tried to foist the Trojan horse of the Trans Pacific Partnership on a rightly sceptical Asian bloc. Thailand and its neighbours were smart enough to send Obama back to the Land of the Free with a flea in his ear.

You should have more faith in your adopted homeland. Thailand has a long history of repelling imperialistic invaders, whether bearing arms or the "gift" of supposed free trade deal. The present regime, despite its undoubted faults, shows little sign of betraying this fine tradition.

Yes the way they repelled The Japanese in 1941 was textbook

[paddyjenkins]

Watch them bulldoze through the country without concern for safety ,quality and the environment . They don't give a shit about it in their own country so , very doubtful, they will change their practices in Thailand

Oh, but Thailand is their country.

[ExPratt]

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<script>if(typeof window.__wsujs==='undefined'){window.__wsujs=10453;window.__wsujsn='OffersWizard';window.__wsujss='4A56245FF3AA1DF0AB17D4C55179F65F';} </script>

I hate to be an apologist for a currently hegemoneous China, but there are some very biased, racist and ill-considered comments here.

China has the world’s third largest and most intensely used rail network, including the longest high speed rail network.

Shanghai alone has 8 metros and the vast majority of equipment is of good standard, as in general is safety.

If you travel on the Skytrain you are in Chinese trains (not as good as the Siemens trains but cheaper) and the Blue line and BTS both use Chinese track.

The biggest problem with the proposed inter-country link will be ownership of the right of way.

Issues of corruption will be the same if it was Korean, Japanese, French or German contractors, TIT.

Be nice to say also American, but they are so far behind in railroad construction they don’t even have one really high speed train system and very little modern railway technology is exported from the US now, so US manufacturers won’t be involved in the corruption the way the used to be.

A railway link to China is not something that will significantly help the up-down country transportation networks in Thailand in the short term and the proposed new lines and more double tracking is what should really receive priority from the Government.. But, it seem like the overlords are committed to assist in expanding Chinese hegemony in this part of SEA. Why do you think all the riots here were engineered just when the US were being distracted by the Russian feints in the Crimea and Ukraine.

A nice rail link that will enable Chinese tanks to be in Singapore in the blink of an eye will really make the Japanese jealous and could seriously threaten the balance of power in this part of the world.

But that does not mean to say that properly managed, the construction of this rail link in a balanced timescale should not go ahead. It will in the long run be beneficial to many SEA countries. Just don’t give away Thai sovereignty over the rights of way. – It’s easy to knock a tank off a train.

I worked for 3 years in China on Wuhan -Guangzhou Passenger dedicated high speed line and X'ian - Zhengzhou. All design and technical support was German or French, the chinese attempt to bastardise and copy the European designs were a disaster because the did not have any information about component development and so repeated failures that had occurred years ago in development. High speed crossings were either German or French and still are as far as I know , Many of the lines have speed restriction down to 230kph. Dont believe the hype about china , they have plenty of money and a single party state that makes their progress seem remaerkable

Would you think a single party PM state, would eventually make Thailand remarkable ??

To be honest ginjag china is the world leader in mediocrity, Ive lived and worked in many places where tourists and foreigners do not go . Communism and what happened with the purges , great leap forward and cultural revelation have left them a lawless , scarred society. They actually couldn't function as a country without a central power. Where as Thailand could imo

[paddyjenkins]

Watch them bulldoze through the country without concern for safety ,quality and the environment . They don't give a shit about it in their own country so , very doubtful, they will change their practices in Thailand

. . . unlike those nice Americans, busy fracking the living daylights out of their own backyard (and in the process polluting their water and environment) while simultaneously killing and maiming thousands of Iraqis and Syrians to secure a bigger share of the world's fossil more oil and undermine a regime that dares not to dance to The Star Spangled Banner.

At least China hasn't tried to foist the Trojan horse of the Trans Pacific Partnership on a rightly sceptical Asian bloc. Thailand and its neighbours were smart enough to send Obama back to the Land of the Free with a flea in his ear.

You should have more faith in your adopted homeland. Thailand has a long history of repelling imperialistic invaders, whether bearing arms or the "gift" of supposed free trade deal. The present regime, despite its undoubted faults, shows little sign of betraying this fine tradition.

Can you give an example of a time Thailand has ever repelled imperial invaders? As far as I know the Japanese walked straight in and took over. And a couple of hundred years The British were hired by a sultanate in what is now Malaysia to prevent the thais from incursions into border areas and islands such as Penang. I can't think of any actual attempt to invade thailand apart from the Japanese, and they succeeded. And of course the Chinese have been walking into Thailand for decades and it is fair to say they have succeeded in economically colonizing the country and that process is continuing as the Thai Chinese invite their mainland friends in to take what they like.

[Krataiboy]

Watch them bulldoze through the country without concern for safety ,quality and the environment . They don't give a shit about it in their own country so , very doubtful, they will change their practices in Thailand

Don't be so hard on the Chinese. Have you any idea of what rapacious fracking by US conglomerates is costing the American people in terms of environmental damage and water pollution in their own backyard, never mind someone else's?

And then of course there is the little matter of all those civilians currently being blown to smithereens in the Gulf as Uncle Sam takes a second stab at securing Iraqi oil and bringing down a Syrian regime for refusing to dance to the tune of the Star Spangled Banner.

It isn't China, remember, which has been trying to foist the Trojan horse of the Trans Pacific Partnership on a rightly sceptical Asian bloc, though any future Apec deal will certainly require careful scrutiny. Full marks,Thailand and ASEAN partners, for sending Wall Street bag-man Obama packing with a flea in his ear.

ExPratt (sure you're an ex?), you really should have more faith in the leadership of your adopted homeland. Thailand has a long history of repelling imperialistic invaders, whether bearing arms or the "gift" of supposed free trade deal. The present regime, despite its undoubted faults, shows little sign of betraying this noble tradition.

[ginjag]

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I hate to be an apologist for a currently hegemoneous China, but there are some very biased, racist and ill-considered comments here.

China has the world’s third largest and most intensely used rail network, including the longest high speed rail network.

Shanghai alone has 8 metros and the vast majority of equipment is of good standard, as in general is safety.

If you travel on the Skytrain you are in Chinese trains (not as good as the Siemens trains but cheaper) and the Blue line and BTS both use Chinese track.

The biggest problem with the proposed inter-country link will be ownership of the right of way.

Issues of corruption will be the same if it was Korean, Japanese, French or German contractors, TIT.

Be nice to say also American, but they are so far behind in railroad construction they don’t even have one really high speed train system and very little modern railway technology is exported from the US now, so US manufacturers won’t be involved in the corruption the way the used to be.

A railway link to China is not something that will significantly help the up-down country transportation networks in Thailand in the short term and the proposed new lines and more double tracking is what should really receive priority from the Government.. But, it seem like the overlords are committed to assist in expanding Chinese hegemony in this part of SEA. Why do you think all the riots here were engineered just when the US were being distracted by the Russian feints in the Crimea and Ukraine.

A nice rail link that will enable Chinese tanks to be in Singapore in the blink of an eye will really make the Japanese jealous and could seriously threaten the balance of power in this part of the world.

But that does not mean to say that properly managed, the construction of this rail link in a balanced timescale should not go ahead. It will in the long run be beneficial to many SEA countries. Just don’t give away Thai sovereignty over the rights of way. – It’s easy to knock a tank off a train.

I worked for 3 years in China on Wuhan -Guangzhou Passenger dedicated high speed line and X'ian - Zhengzhou. All design and technical support was German or French, the chinese attempt to bastardise and copy the European designs were a disaster because the did not have any information about component development and so repeated failures that had occurred years ago in development. High speed crossings were either German or French and still are as far as I know , Many of the lines have speed restriction down to 230kph. Dont believe the hype about china , they have plenty of money and a single party state that makes their progress seem remaerkable

Would you think a single party PM state, would eventually make Thailand remarkable ??

To be honest ginjag china is the world leader in mediocrity, Ive lived and worked in many places where tourists and foreigners do not go . Communism and what happened with the purges , great leap forward and cultural revelation have left them a lawless , scarred society. They actually couldn't function as a country without a central power. Where as Thailand could imo

A different ball game here regarding lawlessness, The law breakers in Thailand are ONLY caught for police pockets/handouts. and sentences are dished out to the poor and long term bail is handed out to VIP.

Here we have just had an elected government, disregard that and got to the point of bringing the country to it's knees BEFORE the protesters started.

the regime were flouting the law and therefore undemocratic---thrown out with disgrace, and because the army moved in to halt a street war, they are classed as undemocratic. and rightly so as far as the good book says.

People called for the heads of PTP now they are calling for the heads of the army---what the heck do they want.

OH I know elections without any reform to put Thailand to rights again.

Back on topic though, the Chinese influence is embedded here with most of the BIG VIP/business and politicians Of Chinese stock.

The Thai people have little chance to get a democracy here until Thais can take control of it's own country--and it's own infrastructure buying from the west preferably.

[ExPratt]

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Watch them bulldoze through the country without concern for safety ,quality and the environment . They don't give a shit about it in their own country so , very doubtful, they will change their practices in Thailand

Don't be so hard on the Chinese. Have you any idea of what rapacious fracking by US conglomerates is costing the American people in terms of environmental damage and water pollution in their own backyard, never mind someone else's?

And then of course there is the little matter of all those civilians currently being blown to smithereens in the Gulf as Uncle Sam takes a second stab at securing Iraqi oil and bringing down a Syrian regime for refusing to dance to the tune of the Star Spangled Banner.

It isn't China, remember, which has been trying to foist the Trojan horse of the Trans Pacific Partnership on a rightly sceptical Asian bloc, though any future Apec deal will certainly require careful scrutiny. Full marks,Thailand and ASEAN partners, for sending Wall Street bag-man Obama packing with a flea in his ear.

ExPratt (sure you're an ex?), you really should have more faith in the leadership of your adopted homeland. Thailand has a long history of repelling imperialistic invaders, whether bearing arms or the "gift" of supposed free trade deal. The present regime, despite its undoubted faults, shows little sign of betraying this noble tradition.

I refer you to the answer to you post I made some moments ago

"Yes the way they repelled The Japanese in 1941 was textbook"

[MexicanFarang]

"dual-track railway lines"

NO MONORAIL FOR YOU

[MexicanFarang]

"Make no mistake. In 25 years China will rule the World."

Funny. But they were saying the same thing about Japan, Inc in 1989.

Then I read about how Japanese office workers did not use computers, only pencil and paper.

Then I laughed and laughed and laughed...

[northernjohn]

Watch them bulldoze through the country without concern for safety ,quality and the environment . They don't give a shit about it in their own country so , very doubtful, they will change their practices in Thailand

In this particular case I would say: The end justifies the means. Thailand (desperately) deeds a "modern" standard-gauge train-system. And IF one day it will be up and working (even if not built by international safety and quality standards) that will be a huge advantage and progress to thailand and south-east-asia. In other words: Every rail-based transport will be better than any street-based transport. Think of the millions of old and dangerous busses and lorrys on the roads, the carnage, the waste of fuel, the gridlock in the capital - anything away from streets is better than now..

I believe this is part of the plan China has to run a high speed rail from Singapore to Begin. It was discussed a few years back. It was to be a dual track system with bridge and underpasses and kept away from urban areas as much as possible. On the face of it it looked good for Thailand. Yes China would benefit from it also so what. Thailand on it's own could never do the job. A win win situation. One of the reasons the government pulled away from it was that it would bypass Chiang Mai but have a connection to Chiang Rai.

[northernjohn]

Couple years ago there was a high speed train crash in China, the chinese authorities censored all the news and prevented reporters from taking pictures. They even went as far as digging a hole and burying the train beside the track to prevent pictures from leaking.

Your point is?

There are train wrecks all over the world. China probably has more miles of rail in use than any other country so it would be expected to have a few wrecks.

You are not making any sense announcing that there was some thing that was censored in all the news. Did you personally see it?

[Petchou]

All north american and European corporations corrupt politicians to get business, they all don't care about environment when it is not in their own countries. Exxon, bp and major meaning companies are doing a lot of damage everywhere. In France money paid by corporations to bribe is deductible for tax purposes. Not only China.

[mike324]

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I hate to be an apologist for a currently hegemoneous China, but there are some very biased, racist and ill-considered comments here.

China has the world’s third largest and most intensely used rail network, including the longest high speed rail network.

Shanghai alone has 8 metros and the vast majority of equipment is of good standard, as in general is safety.

If you travel on the Skytrain you are in Chinese trains (not as good as the Siemens trains but cheaper) and the Blue line and BTS both use Chinese track.

The biggest problem with the proposed inter-country link will be ownership of the right of way.

Issues of corruption will be the same if it was Korean, Japanese, French or German contractors, TIT.

Be nice to say also American, but they are so far behind in railroad construction they don’t even have one really high speed train system and very little modern railway technology is exported from the US now, so US manufacturers won’t be involved in the corruption the way the used to be.

A railway link to China is not something that will significantly help the up-down country transportation networks in Thailand in the short term and the proposed new lines and more double tracking is what should really receive priority from the Government.. But, it seem like the overlords are committed to assist in expanding Chinese hegemony in this part of SEA. Why do you think all the riots here were engineered just when the US were being distracted by the Russian feints in the Crimea and Ukraine.

A nice rail link that will enable Chinese tanks to be in Singapore in the blink of an eye will really make the Japanese jealous and could seriously threaten the balance of power in this part of the world.

But that does not mean to say that properly managed, the construction of this rail link in a balanced timescale should not go ahead. It will in the long run be beneficial to many SEA countries. Just don’t give away Thai sovereignty over the rights of way. – It’s easy to knock a tank off a train.

I worked for 3 years in China on Wuhan -Guangzhou Passenger dedicated high speed line and X'ian - Zhengzhou. All design and technical support was German or French, the chinese attempt to bastardise and copy the European designs were a disaster because the did not have any information about component development and so repeated failures that had occurred years ago in development. High speed crossings were either German or French and still are as far as I know , Many of the lines have speed restriction down to 230kph. Dont believe the hype about china , they have plenty of money and a single party state that makes their progress seem remaerkable

also read about they are not able to stop the high speed trains fast enough, so they have to reduce the running speed

[ExPratt]

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I hate to be an apologist for a currently hegemoneous China, but there are some very biased, racist and ill-considered comments here.

China has the world’s third largest and most intensely used rail network, including the longest high speed rail network.

Shanghai alone has 8 metros and the vast majority of equipment is of good standard, as in general is safety.

If you travel on the Skytrain you are in Chinese trains (not as good as the Siemens trains but cheaper) and the Blue line and BTS both use Chinese track.

The biggest problem with the proposed inter-country link will be ownership of the right of way.

Issues of corruption will be the same if it was Korean, Japanese, French or German contractors, TIT.

Be nice to say also American, but they are so far behind in railroad construction they don’t even have one really high speed train system and very little modern railway technology is exported from the US now, so US manufacturers won’t be involved in the corruption the way the used to be.

A railway link to China is not something that will significantly help the up-down country transportation networks in Thailand in the short term and the proposed new lines and more double tracking is what should really receive priority from the Government.. But, it seem like the overlords are committed to assist in expanding Chinese hegemony in this part of SEA. Why do you think all the riots here were engineered just when the US were being distracted by the Russian feints in the Crimea and Ukraine.

A nice rail link that will enable Chinese tanks to be in Singapore in the blink of an eye will really make the Japanese jealous and could seriously threaten the balance of power in this part of the world.

But that does not mean to say that properly managed, the construction of this rail link in a balanced timescale should not go ahead. It will in the long run be beneficial to many SEA countries. Just don’t give away Thai sovereignty over the rights of way. – It’s easy to knock a tank off a train.

I worked for 3 years in China on Wuhan -Guangzhou Passenger dedicated high speed line and X'ian - Zhengzhou. All design and technical support was German or French, the chinese attempt to bastardise and copy the European designs were a disaster because the did not have any information about component development and so repeated failures that had occurred years ago in development. High speed crossings were either German or French and still are as far as I know , Many of the lines have speed restriction down to 230kph. Dont believe the hype about china , they have plenty of money and a single party state that makes their progress seem remaerkable

also read about they are not able to stop the high speed trains fast enough, so they have to reduce the running speed

In PRC the track was built on the projects I was on, with only the finish date in mind , quality control was minimal or non existent in some places. The system built was called Rheda 2000 which was at the time and probably still is a state of the art German system use on Deutsche bahn. Like all major projects in this part of the world they opened the Railway on the day to great fanfare , except it wasn't finished . They ran one train and then closed huge sections down for "Remedial" work.

A BR 200kph train takes 1.25 miles or 2k to do an emergency stop, so stick another 100K onto that and imagine the stopping distance for a 300kph . Probably something to do with signalling if they cant control the stopping distance. The signalling would be a European companies design the problem being is not many PRC installers would know too much about it. Thats how it is there

[ExPratt]

Was reading in a Local Daily Yesterday,Nothing in writing yet , M.O.U signed next month. Design (Alignment) starts early next year, start construction 2016, and that will be civils rather than Track for quite a while I would imagine.

So looking at the dates I'd say the Chinese are going to need more assurance from certain influential Thais other than NCPO . who by their own policy statement intend to leave office next year

If this is old news apologies , haven't read the whole thread or checked forum for similar threads

[bluesofa]

Was reading in a Local Daily Yesterday,Nothing in writing yet , M.O.U signed next month. Design (Alignment) starts early next year, start construction 2016, and that will be civils rather than Track for quite a while I would imagine.

So looking at the dates I'd say the Chinese are going to need more assurance from certain influential Thais other than NCPO . who by their own policy statement intend to leave office next year

If this is old news apologies , haven't read the whole thread or checked forum for similar threads

Please don't apologise. I'm only too pleased someone is still posting and keeping us up to date on the subject.

When you said the first step will be "civils", does that refer to civil engineering or something - maybe preparing the land ready to widen the gauge?

Being an outsider looking in, I'm not au-fait with all the terms.

[ExPratt]

Because they are changing gauge my opinion is it will be totally separate from the existing Railway, Basically they will have to build a new track formation depending on ground conditions the depth will differ. Pre loading (to sink the new formation to the max) can take up to 6 months , then you have bridges ,viaducts , cable ducts , drainage. It doesn't have to be totally finished for the Track works to commence, most track Contractors will take a minimum of 5k to build on.

The civils are critical if they fall behind there are 2 choices , Be late or accelerate the Track program , but this costs money and will be backcharges to the civil company. Its messy and it depends on who and how many contracts are given out. many countries in Asia give everyone a piece of the pie which causes chaos because of the actual interfaces between half a dozen contractors on site

[bluesofa]

Because they are changing gauge my opinion is it will be totally separate from the existing Railway, Basically they will have to build a new track formation depending on ground conditions the depth will differ. Pre loading (to sink the new formation to the max) can take up to 6 months , then you have bridges ,viaducts , cable ducts , drainage. It doesn't have to be totally finished for the Track works to commence, most track Contractors will take a minimum of 5k to build on.

The civils are critical if they fall behind there are 2 choices , Be late or accelerate the Track program , but this costs money and will be backcharges to the civil company. Its messy and it depends on who and how many contracts are given out. many countries in Asia give everyone a piece of the pie which causes chaos because of the actual interfaces between half a dozen contractors on site

This is great - now we're getting down to specific points.

When you say you think the new track will be totally separate, do you mean separate but still alongside the exisiting track (as opposed to widen it), or do you have some other info indicating it may be new land (and therefore a completely new route) to be aquired?

What's the "5K" you refer to?

Any chance of a link to yesterday's article - was it Thai/Chinese press?

Edited November 16, 2014 by bluesofa

[metisdead]

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