Massive damages reported from the Thai rice pledging scheme

[JOC]

.so you have been here more than 25 years but only a member of TV for not quite 3 months, I take it that you have been in here under other aliases for those 25 years then. You are averaging close to 400 posts a month and all of them are either pro ptp/red shirts or they are attacking all the other posters, going by these figures that makes you a pretty big troll and with what you are now saying it also brings into question the truthfulness of your statements. Yes there is thai bashing in here but a lot of it is deserved or do you think that killing, raping people etc is ok if your thai. I also call myself a farang because thats what I am here, doesnt bother me in the least, mate, I think you are just full of it and spend all your time in here because you dont have any friends to associate with because they know exactly what you are like, all you do is take your own frustrations out on others and hide behind the anonimity of the forum, pretty childish really.

Since we are way off topic, let's make it short.

First of all I answered a poster, who had been here 13 years! Thaivisa is 10 years old! Most of my posts are one-liners, I post what is in my head at the moment and forget about it. To me this is not serious business but entertainment! So I don't dislike other posters, like you clearly do, because to me they are just avatars! And you are complaining about me attacking other posters in a post doing just that!! Makes sense!!

[surangw]

unforeseen consequences, or what this the plan all along ?

[bangrak]

I wonder if Yingluck will add Kasetsart University's Faculty of Economy to the list of witnesses she wants interviewed?

Yingluck? Do something by herself? What'd you want to incriminate her with?! She knew nothing, see/hear nothing, in fact she wasn't even there! You didn't get it yet? It's the defence system they worked out for her, from day one (as if they had a premonition it could all blow up...)! She was told by 'him' she would make her 1,500 £ white ruffled pecari leather Burberry gloves she's so fond of, dirty, when touching anything, and that then 'he' would have to take away that white credit card from the Cayman's bank 'he' gave her to play with too, mind you!

Edited November 12, 2014 by bangrak

[JOC]

.What a bunch of hypocrates you are (this post and a few more with the same content).

90 % of the posts on Thaivisa are Thaibashing, where it is very much "us' and "them", but suddenly when it fits someones political ideologi, it becomes "we". Hence my reply to cocopops post.

I note you use the word farang about yourself. Interesting!!

For your information, I have been here longer than you and also have a Thai family. And yes I have integrated to a certain extent, but to me it will always be "us" and "them" Maybe my loss??

JOC dear, don't lose the thread, please! It's not about your loss, my loss, our loss, their loss, it's about THE LOSS, from Dr Thaksin's rice scam, don't forget, 12 or 11 naughts with a figure in front, hard to forget though...

And did I misread you (Monday?) when you wrote about being critical of ALL the wrong, without preference or discrimination? Well, being in Thailand, and preoccupied with what happens here, how could I, we, ...you, not be critical of at the at least 90% of wrong things done by... Thais, as it's happening in Thailand, and except the imported Pharang criminals and crooks active in Thailand, there's not much to be criticised in domestic affairs about any others than... Thais, am I right?

So, excuse me, but the 'Thaibashing' label can, IMO, only come from Thais unhappy to see that foreigners are aware of wht's wrong here, and dare to speak up about it, or, when coming from a foreigner, still IMO, then from some, maybe idealistic (the exceptions, you), but for sure ill-informed, des-informed, manipulated, (ab)used (mind you, possibly not byThais only, when I hear and read the trash coming f.i. from the PR agency calling itself 'HRW' that sounds like paid for by the Shins)!

I feel no pleasure from so-called 'bashing', any, Thai, but, as long as I can feel love for this coutry, and I am allowed to, I will go on criticising the wrongs made, by Thais and possibly foreigners, in Thailand! And I would hope you to do the same! Let Thais eventually be nationalists, protectionists, racists and xenophobes, but not us become their pawns, and go silent, we would let down the majority of (true) Thais, good people, who, alas, mostly don't have a voice, or can't take the risk to complain!

>Don't lose the thread please< Coming from a poster, who instead of replying to my post on the ricepledging, jumps on the bandwagon and makes JOC the thread??

This whole stupid thing started after a poster included himself as one of the generals men and used the term "we", since I dislike unelected governments, I took the liberty to comment on it!! Clearly not to the liking of other of the generals men amongst the posters here. So maybe the HRW is doing a good job after all??

I love this country and its people and I would be equally critical of any wrongdoings by the reds or the yellows, because in the end we hopefully share the goal of a better Thailand. Peace

[rametindallas]

Massive damages reported from the rice pledging scheme

Well, Duuuh! Everyone with a brain and a speck of integrity was saying this from the scheme's scam's inception. It seems a new amnesty is being promulgated which doesn't need the approval of law-makers; only the lack of prosecution for it to take effect. The excuse will be for 'peace, harmony, and (my favorite) reconciliation'.

[rametindallas]

"So this report confirms we're on the right track"

WE?? Congratulations on your Thai citizenship!!

What a thoughtless and gratuitous comment. I don't know about cocopops, but I have lived and worked in this country for 13 years and have a family here. I consider myself more a part of Thai society than my own country and would also use the pronoun "we" in the context that he did. Is this wrong for a farang, or do you have the twisted view that no one from another country can integrate with the general population here. Note that I am not talking about being accepted as an equal by the rich and powerful, but by the wonderful working class Thais I deal with every day !!!

What a bunch of hypocrates you are (this post and a few more with the same content).

90 % of the posts on Thaivisa are Thaibashing, where it is very much "us' and "them", but suddenly when it fits someones political ideologi, it becomes "we". Hence my reply to cocopops post.

I note you use the word farang about yourself. Interesting!!

For your information, I have been here longer than you and also have a Thai family. And yes I have integrated to a certain extent, but to me it will always be "us" and "them" Maybe my loss??

JOC dear, don't lose the thread, please! It's not about your loss, my loss, our loss, their loss, it's about THE LOSS, from Dr Thaksin's rice scam, don't forget, 12 or 11 naughts with a figure in front, hard to forget though...

And did I misread you (Monday?) when you wrote about being critical of ALL the wrong, without preference or discrimination? Well, being in Thailand, and preoccupied with what happens here, how could I, we, ...you, not be critical of at the at least 90% of wrong things done by... Thais, as it's happening in Thailand, and except the imported Pharang criminals and crooks active in Thailand, there's not much to be criticised in domestic affairs about any others than... Thais, am I right?

So, excuse me, but the 'Thaibashing' label can, IMO, only come from Thais unhappy to see that foreigners are aware of wht's wrong here, and dare to speak up about it, or, when coming from a foreigner, still IMO, then from some, maybe idealistic (the exceptions, you), but for sure ill-informed, des-informed, manipulated, (ab)used (mind you, possibly not byThais only, when I hear and read the trash coming f.i. from the PR agency calling itself 'HRW' that sounds like paid for by the Shins)!

I feel no pleasure from so-called 'bashing', any, Thai, but, as long as I can feel love for this coutry, and I am allowed to, I will go on criticising the wrongs made, by Thais and possibly foreigners, in Thailand! And I would hope you to do the same! Let Thais eventually be nationalists, protectionists, racists and xenophobes, but not us become their pawns, and go silent, we would let down the majority of (true) Thais, good people, who, alas, mostly don't have a voice, or can't take the risk to complain!

When the majority of stories on TV concern wrong-doing by Thais, the posters are bashing bad behavior committed by Thais and not Thai-bashing. There is a difference. Just because similar events take place in other cultures doesn't mean every post has to qualify itself as not singling out Thai people.

[MAJIC]

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

"So this report confirms we're on the right track"

WE?? Congratulations on your Thai citizenship!!

What a thoughtless and gratuitous comment. I don't know about cocopops, but I have lived and worked in this country for 13 years and have a family here. I consider myself more a part of Thai society than my own country and would also use the pronoun "we" in the context that he did. Is this wrong for a farang, or do you have the twisted view that no one from another country can integrate with the general population here. Note that I am not talking about being accepted as an equal by the rich and powerful, but by the wonderful working class Thais I deal with every day !!!

"or do you have the twisted view that no one from another country can integrate with the general population here"

Ask a Thai i'm sure they will be happy to tell you!

Edited November 12, 2014 by MAJIC

[MJP]

. . . while indicating that the rice pledging scheme had cost the previous Government 985 billion baht.

That's nearly £20 billion.

To put this in context (but not to go off-topic) this is the UK's spending for 2014 . . .

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/mar/21/budget-2014-tax-spending-visualised

[Pierrefun]

The damage incurred by the program is expected to be in the range of 540 - 750 billion baht.

Congratulations, Yingluck, on your unprecedented level of damage to Thailand.

Your unparallelled amount of corruption in the history of Thailand will forever mark your administration's unique and unmatched accomplishment.

[MJP]

The damage incurred by the program is expected to be in the range of 540 - 750 billion baht.

Congratulations, Yingluck, on your unprecedented level of damage to Thailand.

Your unparallelled amount of corruption in the history of Thailand will forever mark your administration's unique and unmatched accomplishment.

Honestly, I find these numbers astonishing.

[jcisco]

Edit screwed up... wrong document:

But for a bit of fun, go ahead and read the following document.

Link: http://ap.fftc.agnet.org/powerpoint/ppt-260.pdf

Edited November 12, 2014 by jcisco

[MJP]

Edit screwed up... wrong document:

But for a bit of fun, go ahead and read the following document.

Link: http://ap.fftc.agnet.org/powerpoint/ppt-260.pdf

What'd you make of that equation?

The secret to great success!              

[jcisco]

Well, at first glance, it makes sense, secondly, it actually proved correct.

+1 To the Authors. Hope they invested well or will do so on the next catastrophe that the government concocts.

[Thai at Heart]

Well, at first glance, it makes sense, secondly, it actually proved correct.

+1 To the Authors. Hope they invested well or will do so on the next catastrophe that the government concocts.

Of course it doesn't need econometrics to work out that Thailand has no pricing power over the other exporters.

[MJP]

Well, at first glance, it makes sense, secondly, it actually proved correct.

+1 To the Authors. Hope they invested well or will do so on the next catastrophe that the government concocts.

At first glance I have absolutely no idea what it means. Secondly, I still have absolutely no idea what it means.

[jcisco]

Well, at first glance, it makes sense, secondly, it actually proved correct.

+1 To the Authors. Hope they invested well or will do so on the next catastrophe that the government concocts.

Of course it doesn't need econometrics to work out that Thailand has no pricing power over the other exporters.

Oh your missing the point as much as I am twisting yours, with that formula, we know can calculate "IT"

[BSJ]

"The finding indicated that the pledging scheme was extremely not worth the budget spent, and farmers who participated in the scheme did not use additional income for improving their production capacity as originally intended. " From the number of new pick-ups in this area I would say the banks and car dealerships have done well out of the pledging scheme.

[kamahele]

Without getting into how much rice was sold and for how much and then how much the government was able to get rid of and at what price, I assume it is possible that many farmers that participated in the scheme, missed a whole season as they could not afford to plant again because they were not paid on time.

[godden]

Monies are long gone, so what's the next scam.

[kerrysum]

Curious.

Does that mean that farmers outside the scheme were somehow able to obtain over 14,000 baht per ton? And is the faculty of economics suggesting that this would have been possible in the absence of the rice scheme? Or perhaps is it that the administrative overhead of participation in the scheme ate up all the extra revenue?

Although it's not clear that it really matters - as the report points out, the foolish farmers wasted whatever extra income they got anyway.

Fortunately it is already the new government's policy to "increase farmers' competitiveness by reducing operation costs, and increasing the quality of their crops". So this report confirms we're on the right track.

You are assuming that the Millers paid the Rice Farmers 14,000 baht per ton.

They didn't.

In the rice farmers haste to get 2 or 3 crops per year, the rice was broken, damp or otherwise inferior, so the Miller paid them a lot less.

However, the Government still paid the Miller top dollar for the rice.

....and hence the discrepancy, the corruption and where all the money went...as well as to new storage facilities that sprung up all over Thailand.

Who do you think the Millers and warehouses were connected to?

That makes sense to me,

Good point.....

[gemini81]

This Rice scam has cost Thailand and its people 1 Trillion Baht allegedly ?

This money has been paid out.

The Farmers are saying they did nor receive this.

Yingluck and her lawyers are struggling to not be indicted for this graft.

So where and to whom has this huge amount of money gone ????

Can some one please clarify this as I am confused .

Pretty obvious where the money went! Take a guess....

[timber]

One trillion baht is a lot of R & D

[Johnnie99]

Say it ain't so!

[soalbundy]

A bit of maths, then, please. When this report is correct (no, not speaking to you apologists!), and if I understand the figures well, considering the total in tons of the harvested rice pledged in Dr Thaksin's scam, are ...(?), I don't know, so I throw my hat at it, let's go big, say 45 million tons, and the net difference the participating farmers have collected on top of what the non-participating farmers got, is indeed a meager Baht 1,000.- per ton, when I multiply both numbers, ta-da-rah, what's the result, yes, yes, tell me: 45 Billion Baht!

Yes, but we still have a lot of rice in store! OK, let us be VERY optimistic: let us say there would be 18 million tons of good, Thai(!?), rice stored, and the market value would be as high as 12,000.- Baht a ton, what do we get: 216 Billion Baht of rice indeed. Add the 45 Billion to it, together 261 Billion Baht.

Yes, but there were the expenses, for milling, for storing, aso! OK again, right, let us be generous, it"s not our money (anymore), say 2,000 Baht per ton, that's a hefty 90 Billion Baht, bringing the total too: 351 Billion Baht.

Let us even throw another 49 Billion Baht (I'd like to have 1 lousy percent of...), for not-accounted-for losses and extras, commissions-under-the-table, plus some travelling and shopping, to come to an easy to remember amount of: 400 Billion Baht, shall we?

So, that'd be the maximum this 'rice scheme' should have been costing to ALL Thais, I don't say 'only' the Thai taxpayers, no ALL Thai people, do you hear me in the 'red villages' (guess not) because when about none of that money has ever reached your empty purse, it is so much money, you, the assisted ones, have LOST TOO, that was said to be for you but that you will never get, so, what about that or those idol(s) of yours, hmm!

We're not finished yet: what is that makes Dr Thaksin's 'rice scheme' was not really a scheme at all, but truly a huge scam, is that it were no 400 Billion Baht, it was most probably the DOUBLE, 800,000,000,000 Baht, maybe even 1 TRILLION, or more, will we ever know it all!?

And the big question remaining then is: WHERE HAVE THOSE 'MISSING' 400 TO 600 BILLION BAHT GONE TO???

Will anyone here have the nerve to pretend that HUGE amount has not found its way to anyone's pocket (no, for sure not any small farmer's!), and that possibly no-one would be responsible for the huge mess of a scam, and that the 'evaporated' money should not be traced, and recuperated, +++, from the ones who got, more, wealthy from it!?

And IMO, why not start at the top, with... the Shinawatras wihich are the top-players in the scam-scheme: from inception through realisation, and maintaining it alive, over benefitting of it in many ways, till the bitter end of it!

I'm not a fan of 'witch hunts', but here we do have a great sorcerer, a (his) witch, a bunch of black souls and many bad spirits large and small, so (true) Thai people, what will it be? Time for you to go hunting? Or not? Now or never!

P.S.: when you would, but I doubt you will have the gutts for it, don't forget to bring stakes, some wood, straw and matches too! Maybe some abused persons will even bring some gasoline they kept since 2010...

An enjoyable read!

But you conveniently "forgot" to mention, that during those years Thailand actually exported rice worth 316 billion baht, add to that domestic consumption during 3 years. Since you like round numbers, let us put it at 84 billion baht. And suddenly the loss gets 400 billion smaller!!

Not defending the corruptridden ricepledging, but let us deal in facts!!

Source for riceexports:http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/List_%20of_statistic.htm

Also forgotten is that many of the farmers still haven't received any money for last years crop, in our village we were told to wait until the end of April 2015 for payment of the harvest of 2013 at the moment the money loss is only paper chits. The government bank was nice enough to lend us our own money at 7% interest until payment comes through

[mikemac]

The damage incurred by the program is expected to be in the range of 540 - 750 billion baht.

Congratulations, Yingluck, on your unprecedented level of damage to Thailand.

Your unparallelled amount of corruption in the history of Thailand will forever mark your administration's unique and unmatched accomplishment.

Honestly, I find these numbers astonishing.

When you think about what the Shin family is worth they are not that astonishing.

[SoilSpoil]

Where did the money end up?

Pure logic speculation would be that the sponsors and facilitators of the 2009 and 2010 rouge uprisings have received their fair shares.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

but if you add the 500 baht that they also got for voting for Yingluck then they are ahead 1500 baht

[Robby nz]

This would only be a brief report on what would no doubt be a comprehensive study.

For instance there is no mention of the increased rentals that have been reported as charged by landlords nor the increases in the costs of chemical sprays and fertilisers charged by suppliers. (so they could all get their cut)

These extra costs would have impacted more on those who did not participate in the scheme for they got no extra income yet would still have had to pay the increases.

Don't see how a previous poster managed to work out that farmers wasted the money they got, perhaps a brilliant economist which I am not.

This report certainly adds to the list of studies which show there has been massive loss associated with the scheme and that there must be accountability for that loss. If there is not it will be a clear signal to politicians of the future that they can get away with anything, that the country does not need.

I agree with you 100% on that. Unfortunately Yingluck being in charge of the whole fiasco at least the face in Thailand will cause quite an uproar if she is sentenced to any jail time which she certainly deserves. There fore to my way of thinking impeaching her will not cause near as much sentiment for her. Not that I am sure impeachment is actually possible to do retroactively but it would serve as a warning for future politicians and keep the public happier.

It would seem that it has been established that impeachment is possible with the consequence being a ban from politics.

What do you think should be the deciding factor, public sentiment or whether a law has been broken ?

There is no doubt that there will be some who are not happy whichever way this goes, so really the 'public' as a whole can never be made happy.

Both radical sides have shown that they are capable of protesting against whatever they feel is unjust, however they don't by any means represent the majority of the population who will be the ones who have to pay the cost of this scheme into the next generation.

Seems to me that not going ahead with either impeachment or a follow up criminal case just because her followers have shown in the past they are capable of violent protest would be telling anyone that in the future the law can be defied by a show of violent strength.

The right of the public to see those responsible for this massive loss brought to account should by far outweigh the happiness, or lack of same, of her and her supporters.

[mikemac]

so you have been here more than 25 years but only a member of TV for not quite 3 months, I take it that you have been in here under other aliases for those 25 years then. You are averaging close to 400 posts a month and all of them are either pro ptp/red shirts or they are attacking all the other posters, going by these figures that makes you a pretty big troll and with what you are now saying it also brings into question the truthfulness of your statements. Yes there is thai bashing in here but a lot of it is deserved or do you think that killing, raping people etc is ok if your thai. I also call myself a farang because thats what I am here, doesnt bother me in the least, mate, I think you are just full of it and spend all your time in here because you dont have any friends to associate with because they know exactly what you are like, all you do is take your own frustrations out on others and hide behind the anonimity of the forum, pretty childish really.

Well put seajae !

Hammer - Nail - Head

[Pierrefun]

For your information, I have been here longer than you and also have a Thai family.

so you have been here more than 25 years but only a member of TV for not quite 3 months, I take it that you have been in here under other aliases for those 25 years then.

You are averaging close to 400 posts a month and all of them are either pro ptp/red shirts or they are attacking all the other posters, going by these figures that makes you a pretty big troll and with what you are now saying it also brings into question the truthfulness of your statements.

Yes there is Thai bashing in here but a lot of it is deserved or do you think that killing, raping people etc is OK if your Thai. I also call myself a farang because that's what I am here, doesn't bother me in the least, mate,

I think you are just full of it and spend all your time in here because you don't have any friends to associate with because they know exactly what you are like, all you do is take your own frustrations out on others and hide behind the anonymity of the forum, pretty childish really.

Well put seajae !

Hammer - Nail - Head

Agreed. Succinct and pointed.