ขยันขยอ ?

[boxig]

Hi,

Do I use ขยันขยอ to say sentence like:

"I insist that you come"

"I don't insist about it"

Thank you for any example you can give.

box

[BambinA]

คะยั้นคะยอ -

Meaning: urge; exhort; coax; cajole; wheedle

Do I use ขยันขยอ to say sentence like:

"I insist that you come"

"I don't insist about it"

i think it's ok for me

[boxig]

คะยั้นคะยอ -

Meaning: urge; exhort; coax; cajole; wheedle

Do I use ขยันขยอ to say sentence like:

"I insist that you come"

"I don't insist about it"

i think it's ok for me

I'm a bit confused here. All the words above (urge; exhort; coax; cajole; wheedle) are not as strong as "Insist". Or maybe I should use another Thai word for "Insist" ?

Thanks

box

[Johpa]

I'm a bit confused here. All the words above (urge; exhort; coax; cajole; wheedle) are not as strong as "Insist". Or maybe I should use another Thai word for "Insist" ?

Thanks

box

I would think that using an appropriate sentence ending particle such as si (sorry no Thai keyboard) would be a more culturally proper method of showing insistence. It also would help to preface the sentence with khoo (please) so as to soften the demand particle at the end of the sentence.

Caveat Emptor as in Thai culture one is either clearly in a social position to "insist" or not. If you are uncertain of your social status best not to insist too stongly.

[boxig]

Johpa, I understand your point, but surely there must be a Thai word which is the exact translation for "Insist". Sometimes it is very important to really insist, or you will not be sure if your demand is taken seriously.

Thanks

box

[meadish_sweetball]

I would use a construction with มา ... ให้ได้ to achieve the kind of effect, but I fully agree with Johpa's caveat. Your insisting will not ensure that the person comes unless you really have the authority to demand it.

You can try with (คุณ) ต้องมาให้ได้ (ซิ่ / นะ) (ครับ)

Use 'si' for a stronger command, or 'na' to smoothen it out, and 'khrap' at the end to keep the request polite.

'I don't insist about it' could be expressed with 'not necessary; up to you' instead.

ไม่จำเป็นต้องมานะ แล้วแต่คุณ

[Rikker]

Johpa, I understand your point, but surely there must be a Thai word which is the exact translation for "Insist". Sometimes it is very important to really insist, or you will not be sure if your demand is taken seriously.

Right, I agree with Meadish and Johpa on this one. In fact, I think it's faulty to assume there must be an exact translation for "insist," because we find that there is no obvious one.

It tells you something about Thai culture. Meadish's elegant answer, with ให้ได้, shows how one can "insist" while still leaving the ball in their court. Instead of literally saying, "I insist that you come," it has an effect more like "Make sure that you come," with different levels of adamance, depending on whether you use สิ or นะ, with or without ครับ/ค่ะ, etc. In that way you're not telling them to do it directly, you're telling them to make sure they choose to do it and making sure they know you want them to, and strongly. It's a subtle difference, I suppose, but seems to fit better culturally in my mind.

When insisting that someone let *you* do something (as opposed to insisting they do something), such as "I insist that I buy lunch next time" after being treated by a friend, you might say ครั้งต่อไปผมเป็นคนเลี้ยงนะ for a relatively weak effect, or ครั้งต่อไปต้องให้ผมเลี้ยงนะ for a slightly stronger effect, or stronger yet ครั้งต่อไปผมจะเลี้ยงให้ได้นะ (if they have a habit of never letting you pay, for example).

Does that sound right to y'all?

[meadish_sweetball]

Spot on.

[bannork]

If you insist on someone else doing something you might use ยืนยัน or ยืนกราน as in the following example-

ลูกค้ายืนกรานว่าจะคุยกับผู้จัดการร้านให้ได้ the customer insisted on talking to the manager.

I think we could use คะยั้นคะยอ with friends easily

เล็กคะยั้นคะยอให้อ้อยไปเที่ยวด้วยให้ได้ Lek urged Oi to go out with her

[meadish_sweetball]

Those look fine in related conversation, but would you be able to use them like "I insist" in a direct command?

[bannork]

Those look fine in related conversation, but would you be able to use them like "I insist" in a direct command?

I don't see why not, try the former one on your wife regarding choice of TV programme, music, etc and tell us the results!

[sabaijai]

¤ÐÂÑ鹤ÐÂÍ is generally reserved for use when speaking in 3rd person. In other words it's OK to talk about someone else insisting but not to use it with someone you're trying to get to do something. It's a rather 'clinical' way of describing insistence, you don't hear it all that much (at least I don't).

Although it's more common meaning is 'prying', 'butting in', 'meddling', etc, àÊ×Í¡ can be used to describe the action of insisting too strongly, to the point of being intrusive. Use it cautiously as it has a definite negative connotation. Also mainly employed in 3rd person.

[yoot]

‘ insist’ means ยืนยัน, ยืนกราน, คะยั้นคะยอ

But words as ยืนยัน, ยืนกราน or คะยั้นคะยอ are used for describing the action people do or the words people say as ‘insist’ much more than using them as the direct verbs ‘to insist’ themselves.

For examples;

A : คุณต้องมาให้ได้นะ – You must come, ok?

B : ถ้าคุณยืนกรานผมก็คงปฏิเสธไม่ได้ – Ok, if you insist I don’t think I can refuse.

( When A talks to B, there is no the word ‘insist’ in his sentence. But when B replies A, B takes the words A said as ‘insist’)

But if you want others to take your words seriously, you can use it directly;

ผมขอยืนกรานว่า พวกคุณทุกคนต้องมาร่วมประชุม- I insist that all of you have to attend this meeting.

A : ผมคงจะไปไม่ได้ – I might not be able to go.

B : ไม่เป็นไร งั้นผมก็ไม่คะยั้นคะยอคุณแล้วล่ะ – That’s fine. So, I don’t insist about it. ( B won’t say anything to intend to insist A. If B wanted to insist, B wouldn’t say ‘ผมคะยั้นคะยอให้คุณไป’. B would say ‘มาเถอะ ยังไงก็พยายามมาให้ได้แล้วกัน’ instead, which there is no the word ‘insist’ in this sentence.)

A : ผมขอปฏิเสธไม่รับตำแหน่งนี้ – I refuse to take this position

B : ถ้าคุณยืนยัน ผมก็คงต้องยอมรับการตัดสินใจคุณ – If you insist, so, I think I have to respect your decision.

A : ครับ ผมยืนยัน – Yes, I insist.