Question about Green Songthaew. I'm sure I was just HAD, but I want to learn for next time!

[allsonew]

Hello all,

I'm new to Chiang Mai so please bear with me! I live about 4km North of Maejo University, usually taking a green songthaew to and from Warorot Market at an affordable 20 Baht. Tonight I stayed late to check out the Night Bazaar, and decided to leave at 8pm. Apparently no more green songthaews run at this time. I think this was what a gentleman tried to tell me when he saw me standing there clueless for nearly a half hour.

So I decided to just ask a red songthaew to take me, knowing it would cost more..... the guy quoted me 600Baht! I got him down to 450, knowing that this is still probably way too high but I just wanted to go home.

Please confirm that I did indeed get taken and what the fair price should've been, or whether the red songthaew was even my best option at that time. Any and all advice appreciated. A little disgruntled, but I'm home and taking a step back, this is still just a $15 CAD lesson.

But still.

Edit: Also, when does the last green songthaew leave the Old City?

Edited November 13, 2014 by allsonew

[A1Str8]

Yes you did get taken. He quoted a high price coz he knew you didn't have a choice. Maybe tuk tuk but that would have overcharged you too. Especially now that it's high season they get very greedy and disgusting because they want to make as much money as possible in a couple of months as they will not have many customers in the low season.

Next time just walk to the next driver and ask him. Tell him the other one said 450, how much will you take me for? Not all of them are idiots, there are some nice ones too.

[jobin]

OP, you indeed put yourself in a tight situation. Some options would have cost more, some less. Last bus i might guess about dark, these days 6 pm.

[beau thai]

You get an amazing deal if you get to the other side of Mae Jo for 20 baht - got to be close on an hour's run depending how many stops surely?

And the red taking just you (no guarantee for him of more passengers) would be 90 minutes there and back at a guess, and need fuel for about 50/60kms?-200 baht maybe.

As you say, 15cad. Dont sweat it. I dont think you were had.

[allsonew]

Thanks all. I just wanted to get a better idea for next time and I think I have. To answer your question beau thai, you're right - just a shade under an hour and slightly faster on the new line (red sign, green songthaew)

[Dante99]

Taxi Airport to Mae Rim is 350 Baht and your trip was about the same distance.

Last songtaew is at dark as mentioned.

Next time if it is 450 Baht again, spend the night in town and enjoy.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Yeah, at 450 you might as well get a room.

That said, I paid 200 to go 12 km last Friday night at 2am or so. Your trip was about 18kms. Given that in both cases they go back empty, that makes for a 24km vs 36km distance, or about 50% more.

So, you could expect something like 300 Baht. This depends on being able to accurately tell the driver how far exactly it is. If he doesn't know how far, and or isn't confident that you know where you're going then he knows he'll end up with a wild goose chase on his hands, so then he should really ask more.

But if you can explain it clearly and confidently then you should be able to get 300 baht.

All of the above assumes that my 200 baht was reasonable.. I don't do this enough to say for sure but I think I could probably get 150, though by 2am it's kind of a crap shoot.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Oh, and get a bike. Or move to town.

[Chiengmaijoe]

That was a negotiation process you went through. He offered to take you for 600b and you agreed on 450b. Another driver may have done it for a bit less, but probably not a great deal less at that time of night consideringthe distance.

A word of advice to a newbie ....... You should try to avoid becoming obsessed about being 'overcharged'. After a year or so, plenty of farangs here end up being right miseries because they have an almost constant fear of paying 5 baht more for something than someone else. In many situations you have to bargain and you have to accept that sometimes you will be paying more than someone else did. Pleny of Thais pay more as well, because it is part of the system here. I occasionally pay more because I know I am expected to, sometimes it might be because I am being 'generous', and at other times I couldn't be bothered bartering over 10 baht. More importantly, don't take it personally and don't get angry, life's too short.

[allsonew]

Oh, and get a bike. Or move to town.

Can't move as I'm living where I need to be, but the bike is definitely tempting. Watching 13-14 year old girls and boys texting while riding their motorbike should tell me it isn't as dangerous as it looks...or maybe it's the opposite, I honestly don't know! Maybe in a week when I stop looking left rather than right before crossing the street.

[allsonew]

That was a negotiation process you went through. He offered to take you for 600b and you agreed on 450b. Another driver may have done it for a bit less, but probably not a great deal less at that time of night consideringthe distance.

A word of advice to a newbie ....... You should try to avoid becoming obsessed about being 'overcharged'. After a year or so, plenty of farangs here end up being right miseries because they have an almost constant fear of paying 5 baht more for something than someone else. In many situations you have to bargain and you have to accept that sometimes you will be paying more than someone else did. Pleny of Thais pay more as well, because it is part of the system here. I occasionally pay more because I know I am expected to, sometimes it might be because I am being 'generous', and at other times I couldn't be bothered bartering over 10 baht. More importantly, don't take it personally and don't get angry, life's too short.

That is sound advice, and I agree - a 10-20 baht difference isn't a big deal. I was more so wondering whether I was paying 1000% of market price because I had only up to this point, paid 20baht for transit. Now I know that isn't the case given the circumstance.

[Chiengmaijoe]

Yes you did get taken. He quoted a high price coz he knew you didn't have a choice. Maybe tuk tuk but that would have overcharged you too. Especially now that it's high season they get very greedy and disgusting because they want to make as much money as possible in a couple of months as they will not have many customers in the low season.

Next time just walk to the next driver and ask him. Tell him the other one said 450, how much will you take me for? Not all of them are idiots, there are some nice ones too.

Very greedy and disgusting! Not all of them are idiots! Funnily enough I just mentioned you,indirectly, in my reply.

[beau thai]

Oh, and get a bike. Or move to town.

Can't move as I'm living where I need to be, but the bike is definitely tempting. Watching 13-14 year old girls and boys texting while riding their motorbike should tell me it isn't as dangerous as it looks...or maybe it's the opposite, I honestly don't know! Maybe in a week when I stop looking left rather than right before crossing the street.

You're right. It's the opposite.

Kids riding bikes while texting and feeling cool taking silly risks is more dangerous than it looks. Add in drivers/riders high on alcohol and other substances and be grateful you got home safely for only 450 baht. And your normal trip is 20baht.

25k for a good 2nd hand bike, and c.80 baht for fuel for your return trip to warorot. But then it's about convenience not cost. And risk.

[elektrified]

From town to 4 km North of Mae Jo? Taxi would have been about 350-375 or thereabouts. I don't think you were taken by all that much. After dark you don't have much choice. You could have spent an hour negotiating with several other drivers but I doubt anyone would have taken a long trip like that for under 350-375. Don't sweat it!

[Mapguy]

Oh, and get a bike. Or move to town.

Can't move as I'm living where I need to be, but the bike is definitely tempting. Watching 13-14 year old girls and boys texting while riding their motorbike should tell me it isn't as dangerous as it looks...or maybe it's the opposite, I honestly don't know! Maybe in a week when I stop looking left rather than right before crossing the street.

It is dangerous, especially for someone new to the ways of Chiang Mai traffic customs and driving style.

And you did just fine, considering, with the songtao driver in that situation.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Mapguy

[Dante99]

You get an amazing deal if you get to the other side of Mae Jo for 20 baht

That is the standard range for a price to Mae Joe area or Mae Rim area by songtaew.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

You get an amazing deal if you get to the other side of Mae Jo for 20 baht

That is the standard range for a price to Mae Joe area or Mae Rim area by songtaew.

It's the maximum price the government allows on all set routes.

Number of colored songtaws using the routes are restricted, and there is always a waiting list.

The cars have to book their time slots a week in advance, and they have to punch in at regular spacing along the route.

[NancyL]

Given the circumstances, I think the OP did just fine and had a good learning experience. First lesson is just what a great deal the fares on the fixed song thaew routes are -- 20 baht from MaeJo! Another lesson is when they stop running. Third lesson is to plan ahead if you're going to be in town after dark. And a fourth lesson might be to check out some inexpensive accommodation in town for the next time the urge strikes to live it up and stay out past 6 pm.

Edited November 14, 2014 by NancyL

[evenstevens]

put yourself in the drivers shoes for a minute

u see a dumb farung at 8pm,a long way from home, this a chance for a small kill,what would u do????

honestly u have been far from being ripped off,he has got yourself home in one peice,thats priceless here

get over it

a very nice morning to all

[onthedarkside]

2 off topic posts removed - no need to start member bickering.

[scottishjohn]

Oh, and get a bike. Or move to town.

Can't move as I'm living where I need to be, but the bike is definitely tempting. Watching 13-14 year old girls and boys texting while riding their motorbike should tell me it isn't as dangerous as it looks...or maybe it's the opposite, I honestly don't know! Maybe in a week when I stop looking left rather than right before crossing the street.

It is much more dangerous than it looks. Just look at the number of 'Farangs' with 'Chiang Mai Rash' That well known medical condition caused by very inexperienced drivers sliding their bare skin along a Chingmai dirt road when they come of their bike.

Do not stop looking left rather than right. That is where the 13-14 year old girls and boys texting while riding their motorbikes (and other idiots - see Chiang Mai rash above) will come from.

Enjoy CM and head chienmaijoe's advice!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Yeah, at 450 you might as well get a room.

That said, I paid 200 to go 12 km last Friday night at 2am or so. Your trip was about 18kms. Given that in both cases they go back empty, that makes for a 24km vs 36km distance, or about 50% more.

So, you could expect something like 300 Baht. This depends on being able to accurately tell the driver how far exactly it is. If he doesn't know how far, and or isn't confident that you know where you're going then he knows he'll end up with a wild goose chase on his hands, so then he should really ask more.

But if you can explain it clearly and confidently then you should be able to get 300 baht.

All of the above assumes that my 200 baht was reasonable.. I don't do this enough to say for sure but I think I could probably get 150, though by 2am it's kind of a crap shoot.

Another price example; just went from the Airport out to Hang Dong, a bit past the Samoeng intersection. 150 Baht from a passing red bus. 150 was their initial asking price and it seemed reasonable so didn't try to negotiate it down. (Airport taxi would be 220 Baht)

[uptheos]

Yeah, at 450 you might as well get a room.

That said, I paid 200 to go 12 km last Friday night at 2am or so. Your trip was about 18kms. Given that in both cases they go back empty, that makes for a 24km vs 36km distance, or about 50% more.

So, you could expect something like 300 Baht. This depends on being able to accurately tell the driver how far exactly it is. If he doesn't know how far, and or isn't confident that you know where you're going then he knows he'll end up with a wild goose chase on his hands, so then he should really ask more.

But if you can explain it clearly and confidently then you should be able to get 300 baht.

All of the above assumes that my 200 baht was reasonable.. I don't do this enough to say for sure but I think I could probably get 150, though by 2am it's kind of a crap shoot.

Another price example; just went from the Airport out to Hang Dong, a bit past the Samoeng intersection. 150 Baht from a passing red bus. 150 was their initial asking price and it seemed reasonable so didn't try to negotiate it down. (Airport taxi would be 220 Baht)

For me, air conditioned taxi from just outside the lobby to front door would win hands down every time

[northernjohn]

That was a negotiation process you went through. He offered to take you for 600b and you agreed on 450b. Another driver may have done it for a bit less, but probably not a great deal less at that time of night consideringthe distance.

A word of advice to a newbie ....... You should try to avoid becoming obsessed about being 'overcharged'. After a year or so, plenty of farangs here end up being right miseries because they have an almost constant fear of paying 5 baht more for something than someone else. In many situations you have to bargain and you have to accept that sometimes you will be paying more than someone else did. Pleny of Thais pay more as well, because it is part of the system here. I occasionally pay more because I know I am expected to, sometimes it might be because I am being 'generous', and at other times I couldn't be bothered bartering over 10 baht. More importantly, don't take it personally and don't get angry, life's too short.

I would like to add that the driver is the same as you and most of the posters here. We all tried to get as much money as we could. Many did it through unions. I have yet to hear of an employer offering a raise and the employee saying no that is to much. As another poster pointed out this is high season and they have to make more now to get through the low season. Was the 450 baht to much I don't know Considering it was as Winnie said 36 kilometers no it was not to much. Seems to me that 4 kilometers past Mai Jo is a little longer than 18 kilometers.

The driver could expect to make that much in 36 kilometers around town.

Also bear in mind that most replies do not consider it is a business that can operate year round at a low rate. they have been at the same rates for about 4 years now and the cost of living has gone up quite high. It is not 2010 any more.

[uptheos]

That was a negotiation process you went through. He offered to take you for 600b and you agreed on 450b. Another driver may have done it for a bit less, but probably not a great deal less at that time of night consideringthe distance.

A word of advice to a newbie ....... You should try to avoid becoming obsessed about being 'overcharged'. After a year or so, plenty of farangs here end up being right miseries because they have an almost constant fear of paying 5 baht more for something than someone else. In many situations you have to bargain and you have to accept that sometimes you will be paying more than someone else did. Pleny of Thais pay more as well, because it is part of the system here. I occasionally pay more because I know I am expected to, sometimes it might be because I am being 'generous', and at other times I couldn't be bothered bartering over 10 baht. More importantly, don't take it personally and don't get angry, life's too short.

I would like to add that the driver is the same as you and most of the posters here. We all tried to get as much money as we could. Many did it through unions. I have yet to hear of an employer offering a raise and the employee saying no that is to much. As another poster pointed out this is high season and they have to make more now to get through the low season. Was the 450 baht to much I don't know Considering it was as Winnie said 36 kilometers no it was not to much. Seems to me that 4 kilometers past Mai Jo is a little longer than 18 kilometers.

The driver could expect to make that much in 36 kilometers around town.

Also bear in mind that most replies do not consider it is a business that can operate year round at a low rate. they have been at the same rates for about 4 years now and the cost of living has gone up quite high. It is not 2010 any more.

Maybe in 36 kilometres, but at that time of night he would be extremely lucky to make it in the same time frame. Most tourists are taking Tuk Tuks in the evening. I think the OP did the right thing, get home and then ask what others would have done and from the replies, he now has options in future. We were all new to Chiang Mai once.

[allsonew]

Alright, just thought I'd clear a couple things up since a few posters have repeated the same sentiments.

Don't worry, I am not obsessing over getting the best deal. I expect to pay more than the locals, I don't mind - as long as it's not an outrageous figure! I paid what was agree upon, got home, and decided to ask the forum just to see where I stood. The title of this thread is on the facetious side, in case it didn't translate over text.

So just to reiterate: I'm feeling sabai sabai over here, don't worry about me. But to those who were so quick to pass judgment...are you?

[Mapguy]

Alright, just thought I'd clear a couple things up since a few posters have repeated the same sentiments.

Don't worry, I am not obsessing over getting the best deal. I expect to pay more than the locals, I don't mind - as long as it's not an outrageous figure! I paid what was agree upon, got home, and decided to ask the forum just to see where I stood. The title of this thread is on the facetious side, in case it didn't translate over text.

So just to reiterate: I'm feeling sabai sabai over here, don't worry about me. But to those who were so quick to pass judgment...are you?

Glad you seem at peace with yourself and have considered the proportions of the essentials of the topic you posted and the way you titled it, as cautious as you were. Basically, it appears that you agree that you had a pretty frivllous complaint given the circumstances.

When in a strange place with limited experience, a normal defensive reaction, if you happen to be a vunerable sort, is to worry that you have somehow been screwed. And - GASP! - some innocents are literally screwed and lose themselves in some sort of orgasmic fantasy leading to awesome financial disability! But not in songtao! I hope! Certainly uncomfortable at best!

Edited November 17, 2014 by Mapguy

[naboo]

Count the number of customers on those fixed routes. I think the ones I take average 20 customers per trip, at an average 13B a time. Each trip is about an hour including turn around. 10 trips a day, 260B a trip makes 2600B a day. Fuel would be 800B for the day leaving 1800B for the driver before other costs. I think they clear 30,000B a month profit.

[Mapguy]

Count the number of customers on those fixed routes. I think the ones I take average 20 customers per trip, at an average 13B a time. Each trip is about an hour including turn around. 10 trips a day, 260B a trip makes 2600B a day. Fuel would be 800B for the day leaving 1800B for the driver before other costs. I think they clear 30,000B a month profit.

Other than to argue with your numbers, which strike me as speculative and incomplete --- They don't even include rental and other costs --- what is your point?

[northernjohn]

Count the number of customers on those fixed routes. I think the ones I take average 20 customers per trip, at an average 13B a time. Each trip is about an hour including turn around. 10 trips a day, 260B a trip makes 2600B a day. Fuel would be 800B for the day leaving 1800B for the driver before other costs. I think they clear 30,000B a month profit.

Well that could be the case on a fixed route. But Mai Jo at night is not a fixed route for a red songthaew. I know there are some fixed routes in Chiang Mai but how do you know the difference? Maybe if they are marked in Thai and you can read Thai but not a lot of us can read Thai. Then again maybe they are after the Thai trade.