Faster International Internet - Bonded DSL or other options?

[JohnThailandJohn]

I was hoping somebody could tell me if having two separate bonded DSL connections would really improve performance connecting overseas ... specifically using a VOIP system.

I am in a Bangkok apartment which fiber is not available. I currently have True 16/1 DSL. I have to use a specific VOIP system (http://www.ringcentral.com/ ) and trying to ensure quality to calls to the US. The issue I sometimes have is my voice dropping out (upload) and have been reading about bonding another internet service provider to my True connection.

Would I really get the combined results of both providers overseas speeds?

Is the ping time improved?

Can you run two internet service providers over the same telephone line coming into my room? (I have two lines but one goes out side and one seems to be more for the complex.)

I also have cable coming into the room. The complex used to use True for Cable TV but now it is somebody else.

THANKS for sharing any experience or constructive advice.

Edited November 15, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[KittenKong]

You say you have True 16/1 DSL, but what upload speed is your modem actually synchronising at? If your line is bad you could be getting a lot less that what you are paying for.

The real 1mbs upload speed I get from 3BB is more than enough for my VOIP to work correctly, but when I had an internal line problem in the building this dropped to barely 100kbs and I had lots of problems.

Cable and fibre both potentially allow much higher upload speeds than DSL can, so it might be worth checking if the cable TV provider in your building doesnt also do cable broadband.

You could also check that you are using an efficient codec for your VOIP connection.

A load-balancing router with two DSL lines might help, but the biggest improvement with that is when you are making multiple connections at the same time so some get routed over one line and some over another.

It may also be that True's routing to your VOIP provider is just crap, and better results might be obtained via another ISP with different routing to that destination, even if the purchased package speed and price are the same.

[CaptHaddock]

Try another voip provider. VOIP doesn't use a lot of bandwidth, about 40 kbps in each direction. I use Ooma, which provides very good call quality, but there are call drops also. If you bond two dsl lines ping time won't be improved because the ping will go over a single line. But even a fairly slow ping time is not causing call drops for your voip service. Even if you must use that voip provider for some reason I would try to use another service experimentally just to determine if the problem lies with the voip service provider or elsewhere.

[KittenKong]

I wonder if this would be a solution for VOIP?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/702561-best-3g4g-data-plan-in-pattaya-and-how-to-apply/#entry8416482

That poster reports getting high upload speeds (up to 7mbs), and presumably usage caps would not be a problem with VOIP (unless you are on the phone for hours at a time).

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As mentioned above, I don't believe dual DSL connections is going to do anything to improve VOIP performance, because your VOIP content is only going to be traveling over one connection at a time. Same with streaming video.

Re you're DSL, you probably ought to run some online tests that evaluate line quality for your DSL connection, and see if that is an issue.

If not, try using another provider like Skype or Magic Jack to see if that changes the situation.

In my experience, Skype seems to usually fare the best in terms of voice call stability/quality issues here.

Recently, AIS has also begun offering in Bangkok something they call Super Wifi, which is broadband wifi delivered from the local cell tower to a small antenna installed at your residence. The stated download and upload times are comparable with cable internet, and so is the pricing. So if you can't get cable internet in your complex, that might be an option. But the problem is, not much in the reports of user experience on the stability of international connections with that.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/774010-new-ais-fiber-net/?p=8646589

[CaptHaddock]

As mentioned above, I don't believe dual DSL connections is going to do anything to improve VOIP performance, because your VOIP content is only going to be traveling over one connection at a time. Same with streaming video.

So, you would think, but have you tried popcorntime for streaming HD video? Somehow I can watch 1080 video usually without glitches or pauses in real time. Popcorntime uses multiple torrent downloads in the background somehow. The only way I can think that it would work would be if it pre-fetches segments from its multiple sources. Using multiple streams gets around the ISP throttling which is evidently at the stream level. So, to get segments A, B & C to arrive quickly enough to view in real time, it simultaneously requests segment A from torrent source 1, segment B from torrent source 2, segment C from torrent source 3, etc.

Don't know if it actually works that way or not, but can't think of any other way it might work. At any rate, it usually works quite well.

[Pib]

VOIP needs little bandwidth. Usually only around 128Kb upload and download for a high quality connection, but less can work OK also many times depending on the VOIP codex being used. And of course an abnormally high ping time can hurt VOIP quality. I expect the majority of the OPs VOIP problem is his VOIP service provider. Since being in Thailand I used VOIP provider Vontage, 8x8, Skype, and my currrent NetTalk for the last few years. VOIP has worked fine on my first DSL connection in Thailand which was a TOT 2Mb/256Kb plan...later a 4Mb plan...later a 6Mb plan, and now on my current True DOCSIS/cable 15Mb/1.5Mb plan. Calls to and from the U.S. sound like the person is just across the soi. Yea, I expect the problem is mostly/totally the VOIP service provider.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Pib

[JohnThailandJohn]

I think the problem is more to do with ping and latency used by the VOIP service I have to (must) use for many calls, as mentioned above. Using Skype is not a problem nor is my internet lines within Thailand (getting good speed and ping). It is more about the distance and restrictions on international traffic.

In full disclosure, I used to have 10/.512 connection and just upgraded but I won't be back in town to test it until next weekend. I was there last there in September and was getting problems but also know around that time there were issues with a broken submarine cable off the Vietnam coast. I am hoping the issues are resolved with the upgrade and the cable but was just incredibly frustrating last time I was at this apartment because there seemed to be problems every time I was on a call I really didn't wanted to avoid problems. In most cases it was the upload as I was dropping and breaking up but I could hear the other party clearly.

I would be curious what kind of ping test people are getting using cable or fiber from Thailand to the US using there test sites ...

http://www.speedtest.net/

http://speedtest.trueinternet.co.th/

I am in the US now and have somebody at the apartment testing now and am getting about 270 but using the True test to the US it is above 400 which is bad for VOIP. Then again I am in the US and that is giving me much higher pings and slow speeds than the standard Speed Test site. Fiber is not an option but wanted to see what kind of results cable users might be seeing.

THANKS

[Pib]

Using Speedtest.net to SF 221ms, to NYC 307ms at 11:35am today.

Using the True speedtester to where ever it tests in the U.S., 434ms...expect the True speedtester is using some low cost, long ping time routing.

I call family/friends (and they call me) on the U.S. East Coast frequently using the NetTalk VOIP service and the calls sound like they are just across the soi.

I'm in western Bangkok on a True DOCSIS 15Mb/1.5Mb plan/

[JohnThailandJohn]

VOIP needs little bandwidth. Usually only around 128Kb upload and download for a high quality connection, but less can work OK also many times depending on the VOIP codex being used. And of course an abnormally high ping time can hurt VOIP quality. I expect the majority of the OPs VOIP problem is his VOIP service provider. Since being in Thailand I used VOIP provider Vontage, 8x8, Skype, and my currrent NetTalk for the last few years. VOIP has worked fine on my first DSL connection in Thailand which was a TOT 2Mb/256Kb plan...later a 4Mb plan...later a 6Mb plan, and now on my current True DOCSIS/cable 15Mb/1.5Mb plan. Calls to and from the U.S. sound like the person is just across the soi. Yea, I expect the problem is mostly/totally the VOIP service provider.

Interestingly I used to not have to use any specific VOIP but last time I was there the company I worked with used 8X8, this is what I had a problem with. I was trying to use both a VOIP phone and the Desktop application. Since then we switched to RingCentral which I have not tried there yet. I found in the RingCentral has a setting the to lower the settings to low quality to not use as much bandwidth. Supposedly the sound quality is not as good but prevents voice cutting in and out on slow connections. Last time I was there I was also having occasional problems connecting to the sites in the US too ... I am just trying to do anything I can to avoid a repeat that caused me to leave early.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Using Speedtest.net to SF 221ms, to NYC 307ms at 11:35am today.

Using the True speedtester to where ever it tests in the U.S., 434ms...expect the True speedtester is using some low cost, long ping time routing.

I call family/friends (and they call me) on the U.S. East Coast frequently using the NetTalk VOIP service and the calls sound like they are just across the soi.

I'm in western Bangkok on a True DOCSIS 15Mb/1.5Mb plan/

Thanks a bunch Pib! This is inline with what I am told I am told I am now getting at the apartment. I just had a horrible experience in September with internet quality to the US but hoping it was around the broken underwater cable (http://thenextweb.com/asia/2014/09/17/internet-speeds-across-southeast-asia-crash-yet-another-undersea-cable-breaks/ ). Plus I have since bumped up my speed and had them run a new phone line up to my room from. So, excuse my worrying, just trying to see if there is anything else I might consider before heading back.

[muratremix]

Dual wan / ADSL Bonding won't help with ping but it may help with throughtput (multi part downloads)

What you need is a vps at Thailand (CSL or Cat datacenter) or Singapore. Then, you can make a personal vpn or install asterisk for voip purposes.

Voip in True is not stable. VPN makes it more stable.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Dual wan / ADSL Bonding won't help with ping but it may help with throughtput (multi part downloads)

What you need is a vps at Thailand (CSL or Cat datacenter) or Singapore. Then, you can make a personal vpn or install asterisk for voip purposes.

Voip in True is not stable. VPN makes it more stable.

How would I go about getting a vsp and do you think it really would make a difference with latency/ping time?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As mentioned above, I don't believe dual DSL connections is going to do anything to improve VOIP performance, because your VOIP content is only going to be traveling over one connection at a time. Same with streaming video.

So, you would think, but have you tried popcorntime for streaming HD video? Somehow I can watch 1080 video usually without glitches or pauses in real time. Popcorntime uses multiple torrent downloads in the background somehow. The only way I can think that it would work would be if it pre-fetches segments from its multiple sources. Using multiple streams gets around the ISP throttling which is evidently at the stream level. So, to get segments A, B & C to arrive quickly enough to view in real time, it simultaneously requests segment A from torrent source 1, segment B from torrent source 2, segment C from torrent source 3, etc.

Don't know if it actually works that way or not, but can't think of any other way it might work. At any rate, it usually works quite well.

Yes, I should have said, dual DSL's wouldn't have made any difference in traditional single-stream streaming, like if you were watching Netflix or Hulu or NFL Gametime, etc etc., where the content is being delivered as a single, usually Adobe Flash stream.

Torrenting, as you correctly pointed out, is a different matter. But, I'm not aware of any VOIP application that relies on torrenting to deliver audio VOIP content. But if there was, that ought to be able to take advantage of the multi-stream capacity of even a single DSL or cable internet line, apart from having to resort to dual lines.

But also, as others have pointed out above, regular VOIP audio-only content is not especially bandwidth intensive. But what is does rely on is a reasonable stable, consistent data flow at at least a minimal level. If one's Internet line quality is bad or had bad routing or has lots of fluctuations of high and then very low download/upload speeds, all of that can mess with a dependable voice connection.

I use VOIP a lot with my True cable internet at home in BKK through various different apps (Skype, Tango, LINE, MagicJack, etc.), and I find even if my PC is running one of its automated backup to the cloud programs while I'm trying to have a VOIP phone conversation, that tends to create a lot of dropouts. But if I pause or kill the automated backup programs that are using my upload capacity (the same capacity that delivers my voice to the other party), things go much more smoothly.

[muratremix]

Dual wan / ADSL Bonding won't help with ping but it may help with throughtput (multi part downloads)

What you need is a vps at Thailand (CSL or Cat datacenter) or Singapore. Then, you can make a personal vpn or install asterisk for voip purposes.

Voip in True is not stable. VPN makes it more stable.

How would I go about getting a vsp and do you think it really would make a difference with latency/ping time?

What is your sip server address?

I could recommend vps location according to it.

And you use True ADSL right?

[JohnThailandJohn]

Dual wan / ADSL Bonding won't help with ping but it may help with throughtput (multi part downloads)

What you need is a vps at Thailand (CSL or Cat datacenter) or Singapore. Then, you can make a personal vpn or install asterisk for voip purposes.

Voip in True is not stable. VPN makes it more stable.

How would I go about getting a vsp and do you think it really would make a difference with latency/ping time?

What is your sip server address?

I could recommend vps location according to it.

And you use True ADSL right?

Yes, True DSL, assume it is ADSL but they are not specific (http://trueonline.truecorp.co.th/product-service/product-internet-xdsl/entry/2346). The SIP Proxy Server is: sip.ringcentral.com:5060

[muratremix]

sip.ringcentral.com

seems located in east coast usa.

digitalocean $5 vps singapore node is fine.

or you can use a east coast usa vps (with ping 200-210 ms) as vps.

Asterisk is hard to configure and use, but it is an option.

Another option is to install openvpn access server free (2 users is free) which is very easy to set up and can be used in ios / android / mac / windows with openvpn-connect application

without vpn, I can't even talk via viber at weekends / evening time due to throttling and unstable connection.

[Turkleton]

The secret is just to choose a very good (not always the cheapest) VOIP Provider.

I and some German friends use Sipgate.de for calls to Germany,

The voice quality is outstanding, like a city call inside Germany, crystal clear, no echoes, dropouts, or similar.

Even with my sometimes crappy TOT line (routing/ping), I've never had any problems.

[Pib]

Yeap, if a person has to get a "high quality" connection to make their VOIP service work decently then maybe the VOIP service ain't that good. As I mentioned in another post I've had a variety of DSL and cable connections with my various U.S. VOIP services while in Thailand and all the VOIP services worked fine. I only changed VOIP services because of finding a cheaper deal.

[muratremix]

True blocks voip (atleast some of them)

I can't use voip without vpn at all.

Sometimes it works, but most of the time, it doesn't.

[Pib]

I used True with a couple different U.S. VOIP services (no VPN) for around three years now...never a problem.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Same here... I use all kinds of VOIP applications on True cable.... and have for years... No blocking.

Now, those are regular Windows and Android apps... but they're not SIP apps, so I can't speak to that one subset.

[Jeffrey346]

I think the problem is more to do with ping and latency used by the VOIP service I have to (must) use for many calls, as mentioned above. Using Skype is not a problem nor is my internet lines within Thailand (getting good speed and ping). It is more about the distance and restrictions on international traffic.

In full disclosure, I used to have 10/.512 connection and just upgraded but I won't be back in town to test it until next weekend. I was there last there in September and was getting problems but also know around that time there were issues with a broken submarine cable off the Vietnam coast. I am hoping the issues are resolved with the upgrade and the cable but was just incredibly frustrating last time I was at this apartment because there seemed to be problems every time I was on a call I really didn't wanted to avoid problems. In most cases it was the upload as I was dropping and breaking up but I could hear the other party clearly.

I would be curious what kind of ping test people are getting using cable or fiber from Thailand to the US using there test sites ...

http://www.speedtest.net/

http://speedtest.trueinternet.co.th/

I am in the US now and have somebody at the apartment testing now and am getting about 270 but using the True test to the US it is above 400 which is bad for VOIP. Then again I am in the US and that is giving me much higher pings and slow speeds than the standard Speed Test site. Fiber is not an option but wanted to see what kind of results cable users might be seeing.

THANKS

I'm on 3BB fibre. These are the results True reports.

Last Result:

Download Speed: 4597 kbps (574.6 KB/sec transfer rate)

Upload Speed: 3087 kbps (385.9 KB/sec transfer rate)

Latency: 244 ms

11/18/2014, 9:22:16 AM

Last Result:

Download Speed: 4731 kbps (591.4 KB/sec transfer rate)

Upload Speed: 3109 kbps (388.6 KB/sec transfer rate)

Latency: 238 ms

11/18/2014, 9:24:43 AM

[TravelerEastWest]

I use 3bb 5/1 premier no VOIP problems before I used True lots of problems...

[AlQaholic]

I am just curious, why use VOIP? is it not easier and more secure to use Skype?

[henksteeghsth]

faster international internet in Thailand

[muratremix]

I am just curious, why use VOIP? is it not easier and more secure to use Skype?

Voip is much cheaper than skype for international calls.

[Pib]

I am just curious, why use VOIP? is it not easier and more secure to use Skype?

Voip is much cheaper than skype for international calls.

Yeap, like me...I use the NetTalk VOIP service using their small NetTalk Duo VOIP adapter (about the size of two fingers) hooked between my router and cordless phone...get unlimited calls to and from the U.S...it gives me by own U.S. phone number....I picked a number in a U.S. location where a lot of my family and friends still live...it's just a local, free call for them to call me...just like I was across the street from them. The service costs me $30/year. Knock on wood, its reliability has been like 100%....calls from and to the U.S. sound like the person is just across the soi. Just like having a U.S. landline number in my Bangkok home.

[AlQaholic]

I am just curious, why use VOIP? is it not easier and more secure to use Skype?

Voip is much cheaper than skype for international calls.

Yeap, like me...I use the NetTalk VOIP service using their small NetTalk Duo VOIP adapter (about the size of two fingers) hooked between my router and cordless phone...get unlimited calls to and from the U.S...it gives me by own U.S. phone number....I picked a number in a U.S. location where a lot of my family and friends still live...it's just a local, free call for them to call me...just like I was across the street from them. The service costs me $30/year. Knock on wood, its reliability has been like 100%....calls from and to the U.S. sound like the person is just across the soi. Just like having a U.S. landline number in my Bangkok home.

Thanks for good info, didn't know that about VOIP, never used it but now I may look into it.

[JohnThailandJohn]

I am just curious, why use VOIP? is it not easier and more secure to use Skype?

Voip is much cheaper than skype for international calls.

Yeap, like me...I use the NetTalk VOIP service using their small NetTalk Duo VOIP adapter (about the size of two fingers) hooked between my router and cordless phone...get unlimited calls to and from the U.S...it gives me by own U.S. phone number....I picked a number in a U.S. location where a lot of my family and friends still live...it's just a local, free call for them to call me...just like I was across the street from them. The service costs me $30/year. Knock on wood, its reliability has been like 100%....calls from and to the U.S. sound like the person is just across the soi. Just like having a U.S. landline number in my Bangkok home.

Thanks for good info, didn't know that about VOIP, never used it but now I may look into it.

Skype is VOIP too but uses a VOIP app. I have use Skype a very long time and find it has has the best quality and reliability. I think I pay $12 a month and get unlimited calling around the globe. The reason why I need to use a specific voip phone system is it is tied into many other apps and features that is used by colleagues. VOIP providers I have used like 8x8 and RingCentral just seem to demand a better connection even with their desktop apps ... no tech expert but Skype may just have more international locations to process calls.

Companies like 8x8 and RingCentral allow you to have a VOIP Phone and just plug it into an Ethernet port. So with a business phone, you have all the features you would have being in the office with colleagues. I think Skype may off a business solution but don't know much about it and the phone system is not my call, it is the people I work with.

Edited November 19, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn