Two Myanmar men accused of murders on Koh Tao tortured, rights panel says

[webfact]

Myanmar suspects tortured, rights panel says
Chularat Saengpassa
The Nation

Two men accused of murders on Koh Tao say bags were put over their heads and threats made

BANGKOK: -- Two Myanmar men facing charges of murdering British tourists on Koh Tao were tortured, according to the ongoing probe by a subcommittee of the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC).

If police representatives fail to show up today to provide explanations on the alleged torture, the subcommittee will conclude its probe that way and report the issue to the NHRC.

"Police representatives did not answer our summons four times already - on October 20, October 27, November 3 and November 10," the subcommittee's chairman Niran Pitakwatchara said late last week. He said available information had pointed to the torture even though there were no physical injuries visible on the suspects at the time human-rights advocates reached them.

In the middle of September two British tourists were brutally killed on Koh Tao, an island in Surat Thani province in the Gulf of Thailand.

After the murder made headlines both locally and internationally, Thai police arrested two Myanmar workers for the crimes based on DNA test results in early October.

However, the workers soon recanted and lamented that they were forced into confessing to crimes they had not committed.

Pornpen Khongkachonkiet, who also sits on the NHRC subcommittee, said the suspects had been detained around October 1 and 2, but her team first met them on October 13. "So, it's possible that the traces of injuries might have already disappeared," she said.

Pornpen said she only interviewed the suspects after they had already been sent to Samui Island.

"We haven't been to Koh Tao. People who have been there tell us that in fact security cameras were widely available but after the crimes happened, no one knew where recordings from those cameras are. Those who agree to talk us don't dare to give much information. And they prefer to talk in a place outside Koh Tao," she said.

Niran said his subcommittee had so far not looked into whether the two suspects had committed the murders or not, but whether they had been abused when in police custody. "We don't have the duty to arrest suspects or check DNA. Our duty is to protect human rights. We have to check if police have abused their authority while the suspects were in detention."

He said the subcommittee's actions were made under the Optional Protocol to the Convention against Torture.

The NHRC panel said the suspects said they were slapped in the face and their heads were covered with a plastic bag and then a second bag while in custody. They were told they would face serious harm and be thrown into the sea if they did not confess to the murders of the two Britons.

Niran said his subcommittee also found that interrogators relied on a Rohingya for interpretation, even though various sources say there has been ethnic, religious and cultural conflicts between Myanmar and Rohingya people.

"There is a possibility of the interpreter perpetuating the violence against the suspects. One of the suspects said the interpreter also took more than Bt4,000 from him, claiming that the amount would be forwarded to his parents. So far, the money has not reached his family, according to details we have gathered," Niran said. He said "torture" did not mean physical harm alone because methods like covering suspects' heads with plastic bags and threats of violence, which the suspects claimed they had faced during interrogation, also qualified as a form of torture.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Myanmar-suspects-tortured-rights-panel-says-30247901.html


-- The Nation 2014-11-17

[seahorse]

Disgraceful.

How are the corruption apologists going to spin this one?

[jaidam]

I dunno, these Burmese, it's all a bit me me me.

Have they no concept of "for the greater good" ? Do they not care about the region 8 Southern Police, their families, mia nois and ample bank balances. Southern police, with their extremely close connections to ahem, that ahem'ed the DNA, for a satisfactory result(except for the victims families,residents of KT that spoke out and tried to help catch the real killers, and any living creature with an ounce or morality).

[BSJ]

Torture is not putting plastic bags on a suspects head. Torture is inflicting serious amounts of pain with hot irons, finger crushing pliers and beatings with clubs. This was just a Thailand style interrogation.

[greenchair]

Torture or not. We all know those boys are innocent

[Suriya4]

What's next, arrest the police officers who do their job in closing the case? Stupid isn't it. Punish the good guys, while criminals walk free, just like Thaksin.

[Crazy chef 1]

Torture or not. We all know those boys are innocent

do we?for sure?

[uty6543]

Torture or not. We all know those boys are innocent

do we?for sure?

Yes we do know for sure. From day 1 it was obvious to 99.9% of us. Edited November 16, 2014 by uty6543

[Crazy chef 1]

Torture or not. We all know those boys are innocent

do we?for sure?

Yes we do know for sure. From day 1 it was obvious to 99.9% of us.

I believe they're innocent- but I don't know...

[ramrod711]

Torture is not putting plastic bags on a suspects head. Torture is inflicting serious amounts of pain with hot irons, finger crushing pliers and beatings with clubs. This was just a Thailand style interrogation.

Torture doesn't have to leave a scar. Waterboarding doesn't, putting a plastic bag over someone's head and cutting off their oxygen supply doesn't. Torture is whatever causes terror and fear off death. Locking me in a room with venomous snakes would be torture for me but perhaps not for you.

[Bullie]

If you think that placing a plastic bag over your head does not amount to torture, you really should try it sometime.

There are about 300.000 victims of the Khmer Rouge (amongst whom my father in Law) who were tortured and killed this way. My wife can testify to this as she was was forced to watch at the time.

[dcutman]

Pornpen Khongkachonkiet, who also sits on the NHRC subcommittee, said the suspects had been detained around October 1 and 2, but her team first met them on October 13..

Torture will be very hard to prove.

One thing that wont be. is the fact the police took these suspects to a secret location, not a police station, to be tortured interrogated. Against Thai law. The suspects were also denied their right to counsel during their torture interrogation and for nearly 2 weeks after. Also against Thai law.

Its not hard to figure out why the police broke these laws now is it.

[siampolee]

Suriya4 post # 6

What's next, arrest the police officers who do their job in closing the case? Stupid isn't it. Punish the good guys, while criminals walk free, just like Thaksin.

So rewarding to see you are now the xenophibic racist judge and jury

What's next, arrest the police officers who do their job in closing the case?

Yes indeed the closing of the case now it is full of money has probably already been done.

Stupid isn't it. Punish the good guys, while criminals walk free, just like Thaksin.

Yes indeed agreed.

The good guys being the Myanmar scapegoats whilst the real killers and the corrupt police walk or rather run free.

[aussieinthailand]

Torture is not putting plastic bags on a suspects head. Torture is inflicting serious amounts of pain with hot irons, finger crushing pliers and beatings with clubs. This was just a Thailand style interrogation.

"Torture is not putting plastic bags on a suspects head." Are you just trolling? or do you really think this? maybe you prefer the sanitized title of "enhanced interrogation" that America likes to call it? But why not give it a crack yourself and see how you come out after? or let your family member give it a go, I bet you'll have a very different view after that, and you'd be screaming for compensation.

[Chris Lawrence]

The big problem, should these two prove to be innocent is that there is a killer still roaming the streets.

Violence can come in many forms. Apart from the physical aspects of torture, mental and emotional: leaving as little physical injury or evidence as possible while achieving the same psychological devastation.

The fact that the police haven’t answered the call of a summons to explain the claims indicates total contempt and disregard for due process.

[daveAustin]

Torture is not putting plastic bags on a suspects head. Torture is inflicting serious amounts of pain with hot irons, finger crushing pliers and beatings with clubs. This was just a Thailand style interrogation.

I believe that was only part of it, tough guy. According to those lads, they were also scolded with boiling water and did I hear that they were also water-boarded? Likely also sleep-deprived, dehydrated and starved... most people would probably confess to anything at that point in the face of a pack of barbaric animals unless perhaps your name is John Rambo or Mr SAS.

[arrowsdawdle]

Disgraceful.

How are the corruption apologists going to spin this one?

Thought it might rain?

[Chris Lawrence]

Torture is not putting plastic bags on a suspects head. Torture is inflicting serious amounts of pain with hot irons, finger crushing pliers and beatings with clubs. This was just a Thailand style interrogation.

BSJ, torture has come a long way from when you were last employed as a torturer?

Water boarding doesn't leave marks.

A good torturer will leave as little physical injury or evidence as possible while achieving the same psychological devastation, so that the claim of torture will be dismissed. Why would you want it to come and bite you on the backside after a job well done?

[templedog]

Torture is not putting plastic bags on a suspects head. Torture is inflicting serious amounts of pain with hot irons, finger crushing pliers and beatings with clubs. This was just a Thailand style interrogation.

Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

— Convention Against Torture, Article 1.1

[mojorison]

If the RTP fail to show up for the 5th time, then they assume an affirmative, and the boys walk. Good.

[yellowboat]

Torture is not putting plastic bags on a suspects head. Torture is inflicting serious amounts of pain with hot irons, finger crushing pliers and beatings with clubs. This was just a Thailand style interrogation.

It is not just and it is appalling behavior. By saying this, you are making Thailand out to be a hidious place. Your comments are shameful

[arrowsdawdle]

Torture is not putting plastic bags on a suspects head. Torture is inflicting serious amounts of pain with hot irons, finger crushing pliers and beatings with clubs. This was just a Thailand style interrogation.

I believe that was only part of it, tough guy. According to those lads, they were also scolded with boiling water and did I hear that they were also water-boarded? Likely also sleep-deprived, dehydrated and starved... most people would probably confess to anything at that point in the face of a pack of barbaric animals unless perhaps your name is John Rambo or Mr SAS.

Torture is not necessary to stage a confession. Google MKULTRA.

Over & out.

[thailandchilli]

The big problem, should these two prove to be innocent is that there is a killer still roaming the streets.

Violence can come in many forms. Apart from the physical aspects of torture, mental and emotional: leaving as little physical injury or evidence as possible while achieving the same psychological devastation.

The fact that the police haven’t answered the call of a summons to explain the claims indicates total contempt and disregard for due process.

Not just one killer still on the loose, at least 2 and maybe more + those that were involved, those that helped in the escape of the real killers and those who have conspired to cover it all up, quite an evil crowd

[chainarong]

This is another example of the RTP performance chart, the investigation was flawed from the start , with dumb bums running around , media B/S stops and may I remind the RTP that one of your senior officers said I quote: The DNA indicated the person is not Asian, by that admission alone you have just blown the case, I rest my case Your Honour. as for these tortured claims, well time has marched on , unless photographic proof is given or there are credible witnesses, I'd give that line miss.

[WitawatWatawit]

You guys attacking BSJ, are you he wasn't being sarcastic? His last sentence would make it seem so. Poor taste and poor writing, but not callous, I think.

[binjalin]

What's next, arrest the police officers who do their job in closing the case? Stupid isn't it. Punish the good guys, while criminals walk free, just like Thaksin.

it's not about Thaksin but trust you to push yellow propaganda <snip>

Edited November 17, 2014 by Jai Dee
Flame deleted

[shaurene]

Torture is not putting plastic bags on a suspects head. Torture is inflicting serious amounts of pain with hot irons, finger crushing pliers and beatings with clubs. This was just a Thailand style interrogation.

Plastic bags over your head not allowing you to breath is torture, the same as pushing your head under water.

[Jim walker]

Wonder why the police never turned up with their version of the torture incident or could it be they have something to hide like the name of the real killer/killers

[doggie888888]

When is torture not tortur? When it's "enhanced interrogation technique".

Edited November 17, 2014 by doggie888888

[Lovekorat]

To 'know' they are innocent or guilty is to have 100% proof and myself or any other person that posts here have no such proof. Having said that this whole situation stinks and by the way it's been handled or should i say, mishandled, it looks like these boys may possibly be innocent. To be honest I don't see how the police can ' keep face ' after all this innocent or guilty. Maybe the only way is for the boys to be freed on bail pending a further 'fix' of the evidence and then for the authorities to look the other way as they go home to Burma. That way the police can say ' well we had them but they ran away' and the boys are not an embarrassment anymore. Case closed.

But all this still ignores the fact that 'if' they are innocent there are 3 murderers at least still loose somewhere and all the others who assisted them that will never be brought to trial. Quite frightening.

Maybe the best solution to wake everybody up here is for travel agents to make Kho Tao a 'no-go' area along with any other potential killing fields.

This is a nice country to live in with in the main, lovely people, but this drags Thailand in to the gutter.

Something must be done to bring those that are guilty, those that assisted them and those that falsified, lost or interfered with evidence to justice and quick.

Why is the PM so quiet? He has promised to get rid of corruption and here is a wonderful opportunity to make a big start. Maybe that is unfair and he is working quietly behind the scenes I don't know. But I hope someone is having a look. Someone who is very brave.

Many people who post here are critical of so many things about Thailand but I think that most of those criticisms are borne out of frustration at what goes on. We all recognise that this is a lovely place but we also see how it could be so much better if these issues were met head on and resolved and not brushed under any available carpet.

No world government and there police forces are perfect, far from it, I am British and I decided to leave the UK when our PM lied to the people and took us to war in Iraq to satisfy Bush. If they wanted to get rid of that maniac Saddam then just say were gonna get him don't lie to us.

Same applies here. Just tell the truth, the people will respect you for it

Come on Thailand make this the place to live it truly can be.