Bought a car. Dealer wont move plates or take my calls.

[ChaangNoi]

Sorry for the delay as we checked up on it yesterday but I did not write up the report.

The OCBP desk guy is who we talked to. He told us there would be a meeting late this month between my wfie, the Dealer who sold us the car, a traveling prosecutor for the OCBP, and the OCBP desk guy.

The desk guy claims he wrote a letter to the dealer letting him know about the meeting. He said he had the authority to do this because the prosecutor found merit for the meeting and set a date.

The desk guy told yes he can not send my wife a letter until the Provincial Governor signs off and gives approval. We asked how the dealer can get one but we cant and we were told since he lived very far away he needed more warning. I know...

We also asked for a case number and were told that there was not one and that none of this was entered into a computer system. They just print stuff off as needed. He told us no one in BKK would be able to assist us.

At the meeting the Prosecutor will ask us what our demands are. We will tell them first we want the book that day, right then and there. If that can not happen for whatever reason we will ask for 100% of the money back plus the cost of the insurance for the year that day. If he is unable to pay us we will ask for the full money back plus a 10% fee for each moth that he refuses to pay us up to one year. I think these are reasonable and clearly are designed for him to be able to do what he said without any punishment or give us back the money with out punishment. If he wants to delay and borrow our money he needs to pay a fee. The prosecutor might find this unreasonable but he should at least understand we just want this over with quickly and he can do whatever he thinks is fair.

Now if the Dealer does not show up the desk guy said when we meet with the prosecutor we can discus further options, one of them being court. However he has assured us that he has never seen a case where someone did not get the issue resolved during the meeting. So honestly he might not even know what further options are as he has no personal experience with it.

So I guess I have to wait and see if I get a letter, see if the dealer shows up to the meeting and what we work out on that day. I honestly do not know what more I can do or what questions I can ask. I do wish there was a case number or some sort of paper copy that assured me that this is a real case but the OCBP desk guy claims he can not do anything like that until the Governor signs off on it. So I think my best play here is just to wait to the end of the month and see what happens. If there is no meeting or something else crazy happens we can go from there.

Honestly I hope once the dealer gets the letter he solves the issue one way or the other but it is not looking like he has the ability.

[ChaangNoi]

Called the dealer just to see if he had an update on the book. He did not pick up but responded with a message that he had been sick for weeks and would call me later. Seems like he is trying to buy time.

[harrry]

The book itself is not enough. In order to transfer it you will have to have signed authourity of the owner and a copy of his pasport and visa.

[ChaangNoi]

The book itself is not enough. In order to transfer it you will have to have signed authourity of the owner and a copy of his pasport and visa.

Yeah, that seems to be the problem. The true owner (not the dealer who sold a car he does not own) is not here in Thailand to do that. And when I say I am asking for the book, I mean moved over into my wife's name.

[Ace of Pop]

I think your compensation demands are a bit steep, 3000 bht per hour? 3000 baht per day for storage? You wouldn't get that even in England. Of course if charging for storage you can't also be using it. As i see it either you have the use of the car OR charge (a fair & reasonable amount) for storage.

Personally I would take my wife (If only I had one ) and go to the dealers. Walk in the office, sit down and refuse to leave the premises until the issue is resolved. Take coffee & sandwiches! That usually gets results. If any promises are made, get it in writing.

Have you phoned or written to the wife of the previous owner and explain the situation to her?

Coffee, Sandwiches, Jack Daniels and a Baseball Bat....Latino Style....

[konying]

Sorry for the delay as we checked up on it yesterday but I did not write up the report.

The OCBP desk guy is who we talked to. He told us there would be a meeting late this month between my wfie, the Dealer who sold us the car, a traveling prosecutor for the OCBP, and the OCBP desk guy.

The desk guy claims he wrote a letter to the dealer letting him know about the meeting. He said he had the authority to do this because the prosecutor found merit for the meeting and set a date.

The desk guy told yes he can not send my wife a letter until the Provincial Governor signs off and gives approval. We asked how the dealer can get one but we cant and we were told since he lived very far away he needed more warning. I know...

We also asked for a case number and were told that there was not one and that none of this was entered into a computer system. They just print stuff off as needed. He told us no one in BKK would be able to assist us.

At the meeting the Prosecutor will ask us what our demands are. We will tell them first we want the book that day, right then and there. If that can not happen for whatever reason we will ask for 100% of the money back plus the cost of the insurance for the year that day. If he is unable to pay us we will ask for the full money back plus a 10% fee for each moth that he refuses to pay us up to one year. I think these are reasonable and clearly are designed for him to be able to do what he said without any punishment or give us back the money with out punishment. If he wants to delay and borrow our money he needs to pay a fee. The prosecutor might find this unreasonable but he should at least understand we just want this over with quickly and he can do whatever he thinks is fair.

Now if the Dealer does not show up the desk guy said when we meet with the prosecutor we can discus further options, one of them being court. However he has assured us that he has never seen a case where someone did not get the issue resolved during the meeting. So honestly he might not even know what further options are as he has no personal experience with it.

So I guess I have to wait and see if I get a letter, see if the dealer shows up to the meeting and what we work out on that day. I honestly do not know what more I can do or what questions I can ask. I do wish there was a case number or some sort of paper copy that assured me that this is a real case but the OCBP desk guy claims he can not do anything like that until the Governor signs off on it. So I think my best play here is just to wait to the end of the month and see what happens. If there is no meeting or something else crazy happens we can go from there.

Honestly I hope once the dealer gets the letter he solves the issue one way or the other but it is not looking like he has the ability.

I am no expert when it comes to OCPB, but to me it sounds like the desk guy has been paid off.

Few things that rung alarm for me

1. No case number

2. No record or computer entry

3. Letter to the dealer but no letter to you

4. Lame excuse of governor having to sign. Governor has nothing to do with this

5. Dealer continues in the same fashion

6. Travelling Judge, no mention of this on website or my experience.

I apologize ahead if i say something out of line, but my only interest here is to help you and from what i am reading you are getting screwed

I think its pretty safe to assume now, car was sold /traded without owners approval.

Dealer is in a bit of a pickle, because as you mentioned car was part of the trade and he gave the wife of the owner another car.

So dealer gave car, paid out some money , then sold this car to you.

He is now stuck, to refund your money, he has to get the other car and money back from the wife, which will never happen.

As it stands, legally you are driving a stolen car

Back to OCBP, you MUST go over this desk guy head, he is feeding you BS.

Not sure if its your wife or the desk guy, again no intend to flame, just do not understand why you are fed BS

Call Bangkok, better do it yourself. Ask to speak to Khun Danupop, he speaks pretty decent English

Tell him the events of this post, including the fact that no reference number, no computer entry, no notes and some travelling judge nonsense.

Ask him to verify if this is correct and if it is, what you should/can do.

IF not, ask him to send you an email with claim forms and lodge directly with BKK

Make sure in claims forms to make it very clear, about the BS local desk guy fed you.

Call again to confirm if its been received.

Call every day if you have too(i know i did)

Asking for money back and insurance is fair in my opinion.

I would however play the 'stolen car" card and ask the following.

1. Full refund less "rental amount" for the time you had the car, ie you basically willing to cut down the original amount by xxxx baht as if you rented the car.

2. You can no longer drive the car as it is now clear car is stolen, so therefore you want car rental money. ie cut back 20 000 per month since you had the car, but now ask for 20 000 per month till either refund or blue book because you will not drive stolen car

3. Refund of insurance you had to pay.

This sounds fair and makes you an abused victim.

I am afraid, you might be played at this meeting, make sure NOT to sign any paperwork, as nothing about this meeting is official or legit.

[Ace of Pop]

Recon they will say you didn't buy it

[ChaangNoi]

I was able to call them back and get a bit more information. I think there was a communication error before on a couple of things.

There is a case number but it is very low, under 100. I am assuming they start over every year and only keep count for this province.

The "traveling judge" seems to be more correctly described as a prosecutor. They only meet about once every three weeks to deal with cases as there are so few.

Supposedly the reason why the Governor (or someone in his office) needs to sign off on this is to give the prosecutor authority to make a judgment in this specific matter because of the high value of the car. I guess he does not have authority to do whatever he wants on all matters.

I doubt the dealer will claim I did not buy the car as I have a receipt and lots of documentation backing this up. I think what happened is the dealer thought he was able to move over the car and this would be a legit sale. However he later found out that the French guy either can't or wont move the book. So he is either stalling for time, or hoping we will just let it drop. He does not want the car back esp if he wont be able to sell it in the future. He could go after the wife who sold him the car but she is not someone who he would want to place charges against unless he had no option.

The desk guy does seem to be helpful and I think there has been some errors on communication and this is my fault. He could have been bought off but I think odds are that is not the case. I will wait for the meeting and see what happens.

On a tangent can my wife even go to the police and claim she was sold a stolen car? I know the punishment for making a false police claim can be harsh and honestly I think it might just be an issue of the French guy not being able to get the correct visa. Can we go in and claim we might have been sold a stolen car? I would like the police to help us, but I don't want to end up in jail try to get them to do it.

By the way, thanks for all your help.

[watcharacters]

So the Dealer never owned the Vehicle when You bought it. Nasty one.

Not nasty but a very common practice, many dealers/tents will display a vehicle on behalf of the owner for a fee or commission on the sale.

.

Isn't that just considered a consignment sale?

[Ace of Pop]

It's vital to get the blue book at point of sale or this. Happens

[2fishin2]

Send the dealer a letter saying on date XX you will be back at the dealership with the car and demand full refund. In the letter, make it clear that if he does not refund on that date as you have requested, you will go straight to the nearest police station. Forget about the original owner. The dealer sold you the car, not the name on the bluebook. Forget about French person out of country blah blah blah its not your business or concern. You are being jerked around royally and time for yall to grow a pair and turn up he pressure. You've been far too nice and being taken advantage of. When its all finished, contact immigration and tell them you are sure people are working illegally at the business

[Ace of Pop]

Not a chance 2Fish. Hes not the Buyer, unless i misunderstand the O.P.

[ChaangNoi]

My wife is the buyer and the dealer will not give me a refund. Yes he is okay if we go to the police however I'm not sure it will be effective and the dealer seems to know this. This is a civil issue and not as far as I can tell a criminal issue. Reading the whole thread would be good as things have evolved.

I have not been in contact with the French guy or his wife, why would I?

[ChaangNoi]

It's vital to get the blue book at point of sale or this. Happens

I have bought 4 cars and 5 motorcycles in Thailand and I never once got the books the same day.

[seedy]

[quote name="ChaangNoi" post="8784876" timestamp="1418203487

I have bought 4 cars and 5 motorcycles in Thailand and I never once got the books the same day.

As a reminder, see post #8

[Ace of Pop]

Why not.?.Unless they are new or financed.

[ChaangNoi]

Why not.?.Unless they are new or financed.

After thinking about it, one I did get the same day, a second hand truck. The others were either new or being moved to a new province. That takes a couple of weeks.

[konying]

My wife is the buyer and the dealer will not give me a refund. Yes he is okay if we go to the police however I'm not sure it will be effective and the dealer seems to know this. This is a civil issue and not as far as I can tell a criminal issue. Reading the whole thread would be good as things have evolved.

I have not been in contact with the French guy or his wife, why would I?

It could be criminal case, you just need to wait to have confirmation car was sold without owners approval.

Once you have that evidence,then you can file police report.

Do not be so sure dealer is aware or knows the law, there are too many foreigners here, who do not have a single clue about law, or even existence of OCBP.

With me, one of the staff of the company i am fighting with, complained to my maid that "farang know too much, make many problem" funny enough said it in front of me, still not realising my Thai is good enough to understand and hold my own

DO not forget the usual Thai way is just "oh ok, mai ben rai" and take it up the backside, this is the reason why so many company's screw customers, because no further actions are taken.

Most managers do not have a clue about customer protections laws, christ many employees are not even aware of labor laws.

Police should be your last resort, but if you do go, make sure to have hard evidence and some formal letter from OCBP would not hurt, though OCBP does have the authority to get police involved.

Save it for the hearing (car has been sold without owners knowledge, ie stolen)

[kartman]

The letter from the registered owner will say my wife had full authority to dispose of this vehicle, she part exchanged it against a new Range Rover i hope this clears matters up.(the Dealer should not have gone through with the deal without a copy of a valid visa)so i don't think it will be a criminal case .

[Robert24]

I agree with konying. This isn't just a civil case. To me this looks like the offense of cheating, ie selling a car you don't own. Cheating is a criminal offense and once you lodge a police report they will have to investigate. Especially if the car is stolen, this can get hairy.My view is still that you should file a police report.

[konying]

The letter from the registered owner will say my wife had full authority to dispose of this vehicle, she part exchanged it against a new Range Rover i hope this clears matters up.(the Dealer should not have gone through with the deal without a copy of a valid visa)so i don't think it will be a criminal case .

IF there was such a letter, OP would not be having a problem,

There is nothing to stop the dealer from being greedy and killing to birds with 1 bullet, to do the trade and sell a car, he makes money either way.

It is also possible dealer did not even check or took wives word without seeing any paperwork.

There are too many "what ifs" but in the end of the day, none of the "what ifs" are OP's problem. all of the "what ifs" are dealer problems.

[kartman]

Yes he would don't think the LTD will change the name on production of a letter whenever it was written they want copy of valid Visa etc and yes the Dealer probably didn't check the Blue Book details, not the previous owners fault or his wives they are out of it .

[ChaangNoi]

My only question about the police is should I go before or after the meeting with the OCBP.

I think I should go after but if anyone has any links to laws about "cheating" or how selling a car one does not own is illegal that would be awesome.

My lawyer is a nice guy but he operates more on who he knows than what he knows. I'm not even sure he would be the right guy to go talk with to learn about the law.

Thanks all for your help.

[2fishin2]

My wife is the buyer and the dealer will not give me a refund. Yes he is okay if we go to the police however I'm not sure it will be effective and the dealer seems to know this. This is a civil issue and not as far as I can tell a criminal issue. Reading the whole thread would be good as things have evolved.

I have not been in contact with the French guy or his wife, why would I?

I have read it all....

In my discussion you and wife are the same. Semantics.

You have been taken by a low life farang used car salesman.

You seem to be scared to do anything on your own as evidenced in he 1000 questions you have asked.

Semantics, you dont need to worry about any of the behind the scene issues of why you cant get the paperwork, that is the DEALER's responsibility not yours.

Go the the BKK OCPD main office and get them involved. Where do you think this roving adjudicator comes from?

[harrry]

I think the problem with the police is the owner must say it is stolen. ie the Frenchman. This then makes it another problem. The Frenchman gets the car back free. The wife gets charged with theft. You sue the wife to recover the money if you can. Whichever way with this you lose the car.

Until the owner (the Frenchman) makes a police complaint it is a civil offence and as such you have some hope of getting the money in less than 20 years or keeping the car.

[ChaangNoi]

(responding to 2fishin2)

My wife and I are in the same boat so assuming we are the same person is fine. However she is Thai and the money came from her Thai account.

I honestly think the car salesman just <deleted> up, but I don't care. He got careless on the visa issue it seems to me. However did he notice this before or after he sold me the car? who knows.

I do not fear taking action, I fear taking the wrong action. From everyone who I have talked to (even outside this forum) going to the BKK office is not going to be productive unless I need to file a complaint. I do not need to do that until at least we have the meeting later this month.

I am in no rush here, we did nothing wrong. I just want to make sure the problem is resolved in the correct way. Getting leverage on this lawyer is not going to happen if I go crazy and piss off everyone who can help me/us.

[ChaangNoi]

I think the problem with the police is the owner must say it is stolen. ie the Frenchman. This then makes it another problem. The Frenchman gets the car back free. The wife gets charged with theft. You sue the wife to recover the money if you can. Whichever way with this you lose the car.

Until the owner (the Frenchman) makes a police complaint it is a civil offence and as such you have some hope of getting the money in less than 20 years or keeping the car.

I would need to sue the Dealer would I not? Why sue the wife? Should not the dealer be on the hook if he sold me a stolen car? A car he claimed he owned?

[harrry]

I think the problem with the police is the owner must say it is stolen. ie the Frenchman. This then makes it another problem. The Frenchman gets the car back free. The wife gets charged with theft. You sue the wife to recover the money if you can. Whichever way with this you lose the car.

Until the owner (the Frenchman) makes a police complaint it is a civil offence and as such you have some hope of getting the money in less than 20 years or keeping the car.

I would need to sue the Dealer would I not? Why sue the wife? Should not the dealer be on the hook if he sold me a stolen car? A car he claimed he owned?

Not sure he claimed to own it, just he was authorised to sell it by the wife.

[ChaangNoi]

I guess the best question here is can a person sell something he does not own? Is that civil or criminal? I assume there has to be some law somewhere he can be charged with.

Also what happens if the dealer or the french guy comes back and take's the car from me. Can someone steal their own property? This is what I really fear. As I don't have ownership of the car I can't risk driving it. Also what if the police take if for no taxes being taken, can I get back a car I don't own?

Crazyness...

[ChaangNoi]

I think the problem with the police is the owner must say it is stolen. ie the Frenchman. This then makes it another problem. The Frenchman gets the car back free. The wife gets charged with theft. You sue the wife to recover the money if you can. Whichever way with this you lose the car.

Until the owner (the Frenchman) makes a police complaint it is a civil offence and as such you have some hope of getting the money in less than 20 years or keeping the car.

I would need to sue the Dealer would I not? Why sue the wife? Should not the dealer be on the hook if he sold me a stolen car? A car he claimed he owned?

Not sure he claimed to own it, just he was authorised to sell it by the wife.

He did so in person but the written receipts speak for themselves. He sold me the car, he was not acting as a third party. I have never had any interaction with the wife. You do understand this guy is operating as a business right?