Bought a car. Dealer wont move plates or take my calls.

[ChaangNoi]

I asked this in the "ask a lawyer section" and wanted to get a bit more feedback from the community. I'll start with what I posted and what he responded.

"My thai wife bought a used car from a well known place that is not in her home area. We paid via bank and we drove off with the car. He said in two weeks he would send us the documents to get the plates moved from bkk and the green book. 2 months later he wont take our calls but one ex sales guy said it is cuz they cant get the paper work from the first seller. So what do I do? How long until the sale is void? Do I go to the police? Thx"

"Firstly, it's a blue book for a car.

The general advice is never to part with money until you've checked the blue book which gives a history of owners and taxes paid.

The absence of a blue book may mean that there is still monies owed to a finance house, or (god forbid), it's a stolen car.

As you've already gone ahead and paid the money, your first port of call would be the police.

I do hope you have a receipt for the money paid."

I checked the blue book and have a copy of it. I have a recipt for the money paid with the VIN number. The car is a luxurary import and came from a will known specialized dealer in these type of cars. I'm 99% sure the car is not stolen and 90% sure it is just that the guy is too lazy to do the work. 9% there is some problem with the old owner, 1% the car and blue book is stolen.

I read somewhere on the internet (so who knows if it is true) that the dealer had 15 days to move it and that I had to pay taxes on it 30 days after buying it. It has now been 60 days and it seems nohting has been done at all. So the lawyer in the other thread says going to the police is the way to go. But is this really a criminal act? Or is it not civil? Should I sue him in court? Can the police take my car because I did not pay taxes?

Really all I want is th book and the plates moved over so I can pay tax and move on with life. What should I do that will get his attention? Letter from layer? Call from Police? I know whatever I do it will cost me money and time.

I'm sure if I just sit it out and wait I will get the documents sooner or later but I really do not want to be doing anything illegal in Thailand even if it is not my fault. I'd rather report the stuff to the police if that is what needs to be done.

Thanks

[billd766]

I had a similar problem with a motorbike a couple of years ago.

I bought it in Pattaya and like you I waited and I also asked a friend to help me out as he lived there and I live 500 km away.

Nothing seemed to work. He never called me and the only number on the recipt (yes I did get one) turned out to be a fax machine

Eventually I humped the bike onto my pickup and drove to the guys shop. He wasn't there but one of his mechanics was and he put me onto a girl in the shop who spoke fair English. I explained my problem to her and she called her boss. After that she went into the files and pulled the registration book out and said that I needed to pay the tax, insurance etc and that the reason they had not called me was that they didn't have my number. They had done all the work but couldn't call me as they didn't have my number. I apologised and so did the girl and the problem was solved.

I paid the bill and never took the bike off the truck. I stayed overnight and drove home the next day feeling slightly stupid.

In your position I would tread a little carefully but I would take my wife and the car back and get hold of the seller. Be polite and friendly and see what the problem is. It may something simple and stupid like my problem or a misunderstanding somewhere. Don't jump up and down or scream and shout but be polite.

If that doesn't work take a few thousand baht to the police station and get your wife to explain the problem and ask if the police can help in any way. It may work or it may not but the sight of some of the BiB may change his mind. If it does it will be worth it.

Since I did the deal on my bike I will pay a deposit (get a signed receipt) and the rest I will pay after the transfer is in my name. If the seller doesn't want to do that then walk away from the deal.

I wish you the best of luck.

[dddave]

Billd766's advice is the best and certainly worth trying.

You mention that it is an imported luxury vehicle..There has been a lot of press lately about a heavy government crackdown on such automobiles fraudulently imported and registered in Thailand. It may be that the seller is reluctant to submit the documentation because of the increased scrutiny by tax authorities.

[Ace of Pop]

So the Dealer never owned the Vehicle when You bought it. Nasty one.

[A1Str8]

And this good for nothing type of brother calls himself a car dealer.

[ChaangNoi]

Assuming the guy sold me a car he does not own I assume this is illegal. What happens to me and the car if I go to the police?

Also the first owner and the dealer is not Thai. My wife is if that matters.

Anyway I still am unsure if this is a civil or a criminal matter. Court or police...

Thanks

[Sviss Geez]

So the Dealer never owned the Vehicle when You bought it. Nasty one.

Not nasty but a very common practice, many dealers/tents will display a vehicle on behalf of the owner for a fee or commission on the sale.

[seedy]

Since I did the deal on my bike I will pay a deposit (get a signed receipt) and the rest I will pay after the transfer is in my name. If the seller doesn't want to do that then walk away from the deal.

I wish you the best of luck.

+1 - how I bought mine. Test drove Saturday, paid deposit.

Car dealer came to my home Monday morning with blue book in my name, drove me to the dealership. Checked the car, paid the balance.

Happy camper.

[Robert24]

I recommend you go to the police and file a report. Once the police starts investigating, I guess they will find out quickly what happened. If the dealer sold you a car that was stolen, he will commit an offense. Also get some help from a lawyer, looks to me like you can sue the dealer for cheating you.

Best to avoid this by only paying when the you go to the government office and transfer ownership of the blue book. There is also a gov document both the seller and buyer need to sign and the government will check both IDs + the vehicle

[ChaangNoi]

I honestly think their is either some disagreement between the first seller and the dealer or the guy is just lazy. Sadly since there is no communication I have no idea. I think I will have the contact information of the first seller on Wednesday. We will call her and see what is going on. It seems she traded this car in for a new Land Rover and the blue book is in what we assume is her husbands name. At this point I am not sure the husband is aware of the sale. He seems to be an oil worker who is only in the country some of the time.

What is really pissing me off however is the lack of communication. I guess going to the police is the only real option assuming I do not get good news on Wednesday. Hope the police do not take the car or arrest me!

[kartman]

OP Were you in control of the vehicle after you saw the origional blue book or did you collect it later with the copy, could have been put on finance between the two.

[ChaangNoi]

OP Were you in control of the vehicle after you saw the origional blue book or did you collect it later with the copy, could have been put on finance between the two.

Yes, I and my wife drove away in the car after we paid and got all the documents. The time between seeing the car for the first time, and driving away with it was about 2 hours. It was the exact car we had been looking for and found it online. The details were pretty muched covered over the phone.

I doubt the dealer was able to get a loan on the car but I guess there could have been one on the car before he got it. The lady who "sold it" works for a bank. I guess she could have had access to the book. Sadly a lot of this is speculation as to the why no one is doing anything. I know things can go sideways in Thailand for a lot of silly reason, been here over 10 years. What has me worried is the guy will not take our calls. This makes me think he just does not care at all, or can't/won't fix the problem.

Seems Thursday morning I will be at the police station making a report. Should I go to the local police and file it or to the tourist police? My wife who is Thai bought it but the car is in the name of a French guy and the dealer is also not Thai. Offically I'm not involved in this at all other than trying to help my wife. She signed all the documents and the money came from her bank account. I really doubt the police will mess with her too much for being scammed by non-Thais but I am worried that since tax is not paid they could just seize the car until this all sorts itself out.

[Robert24]

Suggest you go to the local police station and my recommendation would be to do this as soon as you can. They will not start to investigate this unless you file a report hence why I'm not sure what you gain from waiting until Thursday. Also get in touch with a lawyer tomorrow and walk him through what happened. He may have some additional options what you can do especially if things get more tricky, ie car was stolen or similar.

[ChaangNoi]

I was trying to avoid getting the police involved but I guess that is what needs to be done. I'll stop by the lawyers first and have him go with. What a pain in the ass this has become :/

Thanks for all the ideas and help everyone.

[konying]

Do not waste your time with police because its not a criminal matter.

Get your wife to call consumer protection board.

The outcome most likely be, while your wife waits, they will call the dealer.

You then may find things will move very fast, if they do not, file a claim with consumer protection board and things will really start to move.

You could have purchased the car from a dealer where dealer did not own the car, and very possibly the owner/seller may not have all the correct paperwork

Also the change of city's(plates) to me at least, is a known problem, despite what people claim.

I bought some bikes before, all registered in other provinces, the change was almost impossible, because both parties had to present in that province,(or something along the lines)

Anyhow, took almost a year, 20 000 baht in lawyer fees to get it done.

Not sure how much dealer had to "donate"

[ChaangNoi]

Yeah, I was thinking going to the police was a bit silly. The forum lawyer guy said go to the police but really what can they do? Arrest the guy? This seems to me as a civil matter and that I should sue the guy in court.

I am not aware of this consumer protection board but will check it out tomorrow. Might as well stop by the lawyer anyway and see what he thinks should be done. He is a bit connected and might have some ideas.

[stevenl]

Really surprised the dealer is not Thai.

[konying]

Yeah, I was thinking going to the police was a bit silly. The forum lawyer guy said go to the police but really what can they do? Arrest the guy? This seems to me as a civil matter and that I should sue the guy in court.

I am not aware of this consumer protection board but will check it out tomorrow. Might as well stop by the lawyer anyway and see what he thinks should be done. He is a bit connected and might have some ideas.

NO need, OCPB is a free service and much more powerful than a lawyer. In my experience the moment they contact the seller, things get sorted pretty fast.

http://www.ocpb.go.th/main.php?filename=index

http://www.ocpb.go.th/ewtadmin/ewt/ocpb_eng/main.php?filename=index___EN English

[Robert24]

The lawyer is a good starting point and surely he can advise you about the best way to proceed.

For those that say there is no criminal offense: well to me this looks potentially like having all ingredients that may constitute the offense of cheating which is also a criminal offense in Thailand. The problem here is that someone needs to do the full investigation what happened, who is the owner, what role does the Salesperson have, is there a loan outstanding etcetera. Usually the police will do such an investigation upon receiving a report because this certainly looks like an illegal activity.

[kartman]

OK 'previous' owner in book is French so the dealer would need to get a copy of his current Visa to do the transfer, no copy no transfer dealer probably can't get it (if there is one).

[konying]

The lawyer is a good starting point and surely he can advise you about the best way to proceed.

For those that say there is no criminal offense: well to me this looks potentially like having all ingredients that may constitute the offense of cheating which is also a criminal offense in Thailand. The problem here is that someone needs to do the full investigation what happened, who is the owner, what role does the Salesperson have, is there a loan outstanding etcetera. Usually the police will do such an investigation upon receiving a report because this certainly looks like an illegal activity.

Thus far there is no evidence of any illegal activity and police will NOT open any investigations based on thin air.

Should transaction be proven to be fraud, only then police may decide to take action.

Lawyer cost money and they would most likely require an upfront deposit, they will charge for every single phone call and letter.

Lawyer will send a few letters and then also very possibly might accept a "donation" from other party to make this no resolvable.

OCPB is a government agency set up specifically to deal with this kind of problems.

They have the power not only to investigate but also involve police if needs be, and their power is by far greater than a lawyer.

They can also impose fines and take legal action, both civil and criminal and no cost to consumer.

This office is attached to city hall in each province so, they can also do background checks and again with no fee to consumer.

Have used them numerous times and each time was simply spectacular.

Some examples

1. TOT switched off phone, because every month they mail out bill 20 or so days after its due date.

One Phone call to OCPB, phone was reconnected in less than 30 seconds and never disconnected again, funny enough bills also started to arrive on time

2. Bought a bike where gear broke after 3 days, shop refused to give new and insisted on fixing.

One phone call to OCPB and within 24 hours i had a brand new bike

I no longer waist time arguing over anything, simply call OCPB and everything get resolved. Even a mention of going to OCPB seems to do the trick in many cases

[ChaangNoi]

We gave them a call and they said to come into the local office with all the documents. They said the police would not be the correct people to go see. My wife is busy today so we will drop by tomorrow when she is free. I will let everyone know how this ends up so people know the best path for the future. Thanks

[ChaangNoi]

Okay just an update for everyone, the dealer just gave me a call and updated me on the issue. First he apoligized for not calling me before becasue he was to busy with his law suit, no idea about that and I did not ask. Anyway he said the old owner who is a French guy had his documents expire so the paperwork can not be done(I assume no valid visa). He then told me the French guy should be in Thailand in a few weeks. After that I should get the book in the first week of December.

That is all fine and good but I will still be going to the OCPB to see what should be done.

The dealer also told me the 15 day things and the paying the tax in 30 days is only for new cars. Honestly I don't know myself but since he is the dealer in this mess I took what he said with a grain of salt.

Hope the OCPB gives him a call anyway, I'm going to do this just becasue he refused to take my calls for the last 40 days. Too much stress.

I will keep you all updated.

Thanks

[mgjackson69]

That is some good news, in that at least the dealer called you back.

I think you are correct in still persuing this with OCPB. If nothing else, it might put the dealer on notice that you are done dicking around with it.

[konying]

Okay just an update for everyone, the dealer just gave me a call and updated me on the issue. First he apoligized for not calling me before becasue he was to busy with his law suit, no idea about that and I did not ask. Anyway he said the old owner who is a French guy had his documents expire so the paperwork can not be done(I assume no valid visa). He then told me the French guy should be in Thailand in a few weeks. After that I should get the book in the first week of December.

That is all fine and good but I will still be going to the OCPB to see what should be done.

The dealer also told me the 15 day things and the paying the tax in 30 days is only for new cars. Honestly I don't know myself but since he is the dealer in this mess I took what he said with a grain of salt.

Hope the OCPB gives him a call anyway, I'm going to do this just becasue he refused to take my calls for the last 40 days. Too much stress.

I will keep you all updated.

Thanks

I have a feeling OCPB called him and hence the call to you.

But to make sure, ask your wife if she provided OCPB with name or number.

All this excuses are NOT your problem, it is the responsibility of a dealer.

Just a hypothetical, what if French man does not return? then what?

Presumably dealer has not paid the French guy yet because he is not here.

When you go to OCPB, they will ask you what outcome you would like.

I would say full refund and you will repurchase once all the paperwork is in order.

Do not want to scare you, but keep in mind, Thai do have a habit of running away when there is a problem.

So i would insist on refund and repurchase once all the paperwork is in order, otherwise you driving a stolen car or an easily made stolen car.

If the dealer does the runner and does not pay the french guy, he reports car stolen, you are in possession of it.

Again not scaring you, just playing out possible scenario's for you to consider

[ChaangNoi]

The dealer gave the wife of the Freanch guy a brand new Land Rover. OCPB did not call as we have not yet gone, but we will tomorrow. He can't sell a car he does not own. That is just some BS.

You are right, I should get a refund. Let us see what happens. Also the only Thai people who are involved in this is my wife the owner and the wife of the French guy who "sold it". I just hope the French guy knows about and is okay with the sale/trade. If not it is a stolen car unless a wife can just sell husbands property, no idea of that is okay.

[konying]

The dealer gave the wife of the Freanch guy a brand new Land Rover. OCPB did not call as we have not yet gone, but we will tomorrow. He can't sell a car he does not own. That is just some BS.

You are right, I should get a refund. Let us see what happens. Also the only Thai people who are involved in this is my wife the owner and the wife of the French guy who "sold it". I just hope the French guy knows about and is okay with the sale/trade. If not it is a stolen car unless a wife can just sell husbands property, no idea of that is okay.

Just to clarify, you not going does not stop them from calling.

The procedure I have encountered is when you first call they ask all the information such as your name and trader name, address and phone number.

Knowing facts of the "wife" I would insist on full refund until paperwork in order.

Better be safe than sorry

[mgjackson69]

The OP states that he has not yet gone to the OCPB. I take this to mean that the OP has not yet contacted the OCPB.

Given that, how would the OCPB know to contact the dealer?

[konying]

The OP states that he has not yet gone to the OCPB. I take this to mean that the OP has not yet contacted the OCPB.

Given that, how would the OCPB know to contact the dealer?

OP stated he was told by ocpb to come in with all the paperwork , so I am assuming his wife called ocpb to be told to come in

[ChaangNoi]

Wife called but said they could do nothing unless they saw the paperwork. We gave them no contact info. Will do so tomorrow.