Synagogue attack: Netanyahu vow in 'battle for Jerusalem'

[dexterm]

is removal of Jerusalem residency.

Which illegal under international law. Why don't you address that?

I long ago recognised that the - "international law" line is merely something which Israel's general detractors or the far more serious and calculating direct opponents of Israel pick up whenever it suits them to demand adherence to international law. In the case of the later, an attempt to hammer Israel from another angle in the absence of being able to enact far more gratuitous damage (which they would, if they could). Boycott movements and similar, the same. It is all just another arm of the overall jihad hiding behind a veneer. I say that because I don't believe they care one jot about international law. It is only the Israeli side in this conflict from which they demand adherence to international law. Various actions along the way carried out by individuals or militant groups connected to so called 'resistance' to Israel, are generally given a free pass of 'empathy'. No demand for the multitude of militias to adhere to international law in how they conduct their 'resistance'. Nor would I expect it from Israel's opponents, because I don't live in a dream world. All the wailing about "international law" is a non starter with me, for that reason. Israelis have the 'dugri' to identify when somebody is probably best not retaining within your circle of friends, and one of them is the man's wife who even now is trying to spin this to sound like that whole matter was anything other than a tragedy not only for those at prayer in the synagogue but also for herself and her child. In her spin, she portrayed it as if Israel wrecked her family. No, her husband wrecked her family when he made that lucid decision to leave them both and go on what was essentially a suicide mission. Doing so abandoned them to a life of struggle, regardless of whether Israel later removed her residency or not. Perhaps the only real victim in the family is the child, who is probably completely unaware of the future their father just consigned them to.

What crime has the wife and children of the synagogue attacker committed? The man paid for the crime with his life. So now she has her home demolished and is being ethnically cleansed from Jerusalem....for no reason at all other than being a wife and mother. Your rationalization for collective punishment is positively medieval.

House demolition and collective punishment are illegal under the Fourth Geneva Convention to which Israel is a signatory.

Israel cannot just cherry pick laws it wants to obey when it feels like it. Israel presents itself as a developed civilized democracy. So we expect higher standards from it. If it ignores international law, then it is no better than pariah groups such as ISIS or certain fascist states who collectively punished Jews historically. The irony is amazing.

Collective punishments

Article 33. No persons may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention#Collective_punishments

Article 53 - Destruction of property

Art. 53. Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention#Section_III._Occupied_territories

To compound Israel’s war crime in demolishing homes, ethnic cleansing and collective punishment. They even apply this punishment in a discriminatory way too. Have the bulldozers arrived to demolish the houses of the Jewish terrorists who kidnapped and burnt alive the 16 year old Israeli Arab citizen Abu Khdeir on his way to morning prayers at a mosque a couple of months ago? Of course not. That too was a terrorist act against an Israeli citizen who was worshipping God just like the rabbis in the synagogue.

Now that’s what I call hypocrisy.

[Ulysses G.]

What crime has the wife and children of the synagogue attacker committed?

She was only allowed in Israel because her husband was a permanent resident. Now that he is no longer with us, she has no right to stay and will be deported. Her husband should have thought about that before murdering a bunch of innocent people.

“Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well”.

Edited November 28, 2014 by MJP
Replaced emotive language

[Seastallion]

is removal of Jerusalem residency.

Which illegal under international law. Why don't you address that?

It is only the Israeli side in this conflict from which they demand adherence to international law.

If, for the sake of argument, we say that is true, (which I don't think it is), but lets say....

When someone breaks the law, and then the victim of that law being broken breaks the law in reaction, who should be the first one forced to cease and desist continued breaking of the law? The first perpetrator or the second?

I think most reasonable people would address the first law breaker first.

Most reasonable people would say two wrongs don't make a right.

I agree. But that doesn't address the issue, does it?

Or are you suggesting that, based on the idiom "two wrongs don't make a right", the first perpetrator is ignored and the 2nd one is censured?

I hope not.

Most reasonable people would have a degree of sympathy for the first victim, albeit they reacted contra to the law.

A battered wife who stabs her abusive husband, in some jurisdictions, gets off lightly or completely. Just deserts, provocation, self defense etc etc.

[dexterm]

What crime has the wife and children of the synagogue attacker committed?

She was only allowed in Israel because her husband was a permanent resident. Now that he has been exterminated for terrorism, she has no right to stay and will be deported. Her husband should have thought about that before murdering a bunch of innocent people.

“Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well”.

Disregarding the fact that the only reason she needed a permit to be a resident in her own home is because Israel is occupying East Jerusalem

She had a residency permit too, and so did her child.She has done nothing wrong other than being a wife and mother. This is pure immoral vengeance meted out on the innocent.

So is it Israeli sexist policy now that a wife and child must be held responsible for the man's crime?

Looks we are getting a sneak preview of the way the next wave of ethnic cleansing will happen. Just call someone an inciter of violence. There are plenty of those sitting in Netanyahu's Cabinet.

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he would advance a law to revoke the residency rights of terrorists and their relatives"

"[interior Minister]Erdan has asked Interior Ministry staff to examine how he could extend his authority and revoke the permanent residency status of Arabs living in East Jerusalem who support terrorism and incitement to violence."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/1.628668

This sort of thing doesn't happen in developed civilized democracies. It all depends how Israel wants to present itself to the world.

I notice no mention about the fact that similar collective punishment was not meted out to Jewish Israeli terrorists for a similar crime.

Edited November 28, 2014 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

She had a residency permit too

Only because of her husband and he passed away after murdering a bunch of innocent people. No husband. No residency permit. Deportation.

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

[dexterm]

She had a residency permit too

Only because of her husband and he was put down for murdering a bunch of innocent people. No husband. No residency permit. Deportation.

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

So if a Palestinian husband in East Jerusalem dies of illness or old age, according to Israeli law does a wife and children have their residency permits revoked?

Or is it in fact, as the whole world knows, pure vengeful collective punishment, which is outlawed in the Geneva Convention as a result of war crimes perpetrated by Nazis. The irony is mind blowing.

[Ulysses G.]

He did not die of old age. He died murdering a bunch of innocent people and his wife had no right to a residency permit without him. Invalid residency permits have nothing to do with the Geneva Convention

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

Edited November 28, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

He did not die of old age. He died murdering a bunch of innocent people and his wife had no right to a residency permit without him. Invalid residency permits have nothing to do with the Geneva Convention

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

So you admit the removal of a resident permit issued to her and her child was aimed solely at punishing a woman and a child who had committed no crime other than being a wife and a son ...thank you. And that is called collective punishment, illegal under the Geneva Convention.

It is not some bureaucratic consequence like a condition of a visa expiring, as you try to make it out to be. It is part of a deliberate plan to collectively punish relatives who are guilty of no crime at all.

"Interior Ministry decision is part of larger plan to deter terrorism by subjecting terrorists' relatives to financial punishment, says minister."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/1.628668

You say..."Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

I hope the relatives of the Jewish Israeli terrorists who committed the racist hate crime of burning to death a 16 year old Arab Israeli citizen are quaking in their boots awaiting house demolition and deportation...but I doubt it. Israel has one set of collective punishment laws for Palestinians and another for Israeli Jews...nothing new there then..

Edited November 28, 2014 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

I didn't "admit" anything. As usual you resort to lies. This woman has no right to a resident permit without her husband and her husband was killed while murdering innocent people. This scum should have thought about what he was dong to his family before choosing to become a vile terrorist.

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

Edited November 28, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[jdinasia]

Shooting thousands of rockets into Israel is illegal under international law, but the usual suspects do nothing but make excuses for doing that.

There is no justification for attacking a Synagogue full of peaceful worshipers.

No there is no excuse for attacks on places of worship. Mosques or synagogues.

[Ulysses G.]

Only genuine places of worship that are peaceful. No one has suggested that this Synagogue was doubling as a terrorist HQ. Mosques used to stockpile weapons and rocket launchers, to hide tunnels used to infiltrate into Israel and carry out attacks are legitimate military targets.

[jdinasia]

LOL, the ultra pro Israeli lobby has spoken. Mosques are fair game but synagogues are not.

[dexterm]

I didn't "admit" anything. As usual you resort to lies. This woman has no right to a resident permit without her husband and her husband was killed while murdering innocent people. This scum should have thought about what he was dong to his family before choosing to become a vile terrorist.

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

You disingenuously hide behind the fiction that the woman’s deportation is some sort of visa glitch because of course she would not be deported if her husband had died of an illness. Ergo she and her child are being deported as a punishment for her husband's crime...a collective punishment of innocent people which is illegal under the Geneva Convention. Knee jerk reactions like house demolitions and deportations simply reinforce before the world what a barbaric pariah state Israel has become. And the tactic doesn't even work to boot.

Immoral, ineffective: Destroying terrorists' homes is nothing but empty revenge

The IDF has largely accepted the view that such collective punishment is inefficient - so why is Israel re-instituting house demolitions?

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.627383

Another solution to the entire problem is if Israel ceased occupying East Jerusalem and the West Bank and stopped persecuting Palestinians allowing them to live wherever they liked.

Edited November 28, 2014 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

It is not a glitch. A permit can always be rescinded and hers was. Without her deceased terrorist husband, she has no legal standing and has to go back to where she came from.

[Ulysses G.]

LOL, the ultra pro Israeli lobby has spoken. Mosques are fair game but synagogues are not.

Mosques doubling as terrorist HQs. Mosques used to stockpile weapons and rocket launchers, to hide tunnels used to infiltrate into Israel and carry out attacks are legitimate military targets. They are fair game indeed.

[dexterm]

It is not a glitch. A permit can always be rescinded and hers was. Without her deceased terrorist husband, she has no legal standing and has to go back to where she came from.

You're still hiding behind the bureaucracy facade. Are you saying..in Israeli law a woman is just a chattel of the husband..no husband,...therefore chattel.must go. The Israeli authorities have deliberately decided that she can't live in her own home...albeit the cheek of it since her ancestors have lived in Palestine for centuries.

Just admit it, UG. It would actually improve your credibility. t's simply a revenge punishment, nothing to do with red tape..

No mention still I notice of the unequal application of the collective punishment laws to Israeli Jewish terrorists also.

Edited November 28, 2014 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

Do you understand what "permit" means? It is not something that is guaranteed. She lost her permit along with her terrorist husband and has no right to another one. Bye Bye.

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

Edited November 28, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

Kicking out this lady is justified. Now if she had condemned what her hubby did that might be different. But she's clearly a cheerleader for chopping up innocent Jews. Ba-bye indeed.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Ulysses G.]

Hit the road terrorist cheerleader.

[dexterm]

Do you understand what "permit" means? It is not something that is guaranteed. She lost her permit along with her terrorist husband and has no right to another one. Bye Bye.

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

Yes, I do. You seem to (want to) think it is something set in stone like a visa regulation outside the control of Israeli authorities...it's a decision they have made. It means it is within the power of the illegal occupying Israeli authorities with an over arrogance of chutzpah to permit her to stay in her own home. They have now deliberately decided not to permit her to stay in her own home. Their decision is based on a pure act of vengeance.

You know that and we all know that. You look silly trying to claim it is anything else.

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well"....applicable to racist attacks by Israeli Jewish too...err well maybe not.

[Ulysses G.]

it's a decision they have made.

A decision that they have every right to make and they have decided that they don't want to grant permits to Palestinians that are cheerleaders for terrorism and what sane person would blame them? On the road again...

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

Edited November 28, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

Kicking out this lady is justified. Now if she had condemned what her hubby did that might be different. But she's clearly a cheerleader for chopping up innocent Jews. Ba-bye indeed.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So in her grief she fails to speak out against the man she loved and the father of her son. So that’s a crime in Israel now is it? And you can extrapolate from that that she is a terrorist cheerleader. I think in the mist of your hateful bigotry, you have lost the plot.

Is that on a par with the relatives of the Jewish Israeli terrorists who burnt to death a 16 year old Arab Israeli citizen, who spat on their victim’s family at their trial? Bye bye to them too...doubt it.

[dexterm]

it's a decision they have made.

A decision that they have every right to make and they have decided that they don't want to grant permits to Palestinians that are cheerleaders for terrorism and what sane person would blame them? On the road again...

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

Ah at last we are getting there..not quite there yet though...you are moving the goalposts now; it's no longer a bureaucratic glitch; it's because she too now is a terrorist in the mind of the interior minister...like getting blood out of a stone getting you to admit the truth sometimes.

They are deporting her because she failed to speak out in favor of Israel.

Watch out, Palestinians, in case the Israeli thought police catch you.

Edited November 28, 2014 by dexterm

[Seastallion]

Kicking out this lady is justified. Now if she had condemned what her hubby did that might be different. But she's clearly a cheerleader for chopping up innocent Jews. Ba-bye indeed.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I'm surprised at you. You seemed to be getting a little more moderate recently. Frankly, that's a ghastly thing to say. There's a HUGE difference between "cheerleading" and a distraught grieving wife saying platitudes about a martyr.

Even IF she was cheerleading, which she wasn't, you say it's justified to displace her because of her opinion.

OK, now we see where Israel is heading. Thought police. Nobody is allowed an opinion that goes against the greater Zionist goals (We saw that with Vanunu). No freedom of speech if that speech doesn't sound nice.

[Seastallion]

Great minds, Dex....thought police.

[Ulysses G.]

it's a decision they have made.

A decision that they have every right to make and they have decided that they don't want to grant permits to Palestinians that are cheerleaders for terrorism and what sane person would blame them? On the road again...

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

Ah at last we are getting there..

Nope. She has no right to a permit and it is being taken away. Her terrorist husband has been liquidated and he was her only valid ticket to a residence permit. Why it is being taken away is up to the authorities that granted it to her, but they have every right to discontinue it and cheering on terrorists certainly does not help her case.

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

Edited November 28, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[dexterm]

The innocent wife and child of the synagogue attacker has every human right (not your racist Zionist baloney) to live wherever she likes in Palestine as her ancestors have for centuries. It’s only an illegal occupying Israeli army of Zionists that at the moment are preventing her.

But this too shall pass.

The world is watching Israel’s racist treatment of Palestinians under its occupation and voting in their parliaments accordingly. The truth will out.

[Jean Pierre Jacquot]

it's a decision they have made.

A decision that they have every right to make and they have decided that they don't want to grant permits to Palestinians that are cheerleaders for terrorism and what sane person would blame them? On the road again...

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

Pffff....sounds like pure fascism. Something we recently heard from our BIB to students who dare to voice that maybe they are not totally in favour of a military putsch.... aie aie aie.....

[jdinasia]

Do you understand what "permit" means? It is not something that is guaranteed. She lost her permit along with her terrorist husband and has no right to another one. Bye Bye.

"Everyone who is involved in terrorism needs to take into account the effects it could have on family members, as well".

So, if people rightly or wrongly consider the actions of Israel against the Palestinians as terrorists, then all family members of the IDF are fair game? If ultra orthodox synagogues create more terrorism, then are they fair game?

[Ulysses G.]

[if ultra orthodox synagogues create more terrorism, then are they fair game?

Mosques doubling as terrorist HQs. Mosques used to stockpile weapons and rocket launchers, to hide tunnels used to infiltrate into Israel and carry out attacks are legitimate military targets. They are fair game indeed.

If ultra orthodox synagogues are stockpiling weapons and rocket launchers to attack civilians then you might have a point. Do you have any evidence of this?