Thai Army hasn't grounded Bell 212 helicopters

[webfact]

Thai Army hasn't grounded Bell 212 helicopters
By Digital Content



BANGKOK, Nov 19 -- The Thai Army has given assurances that it will not ground its Bell 212 helicopters, despite one of the type having crashed Monday in Phayao, killing nine military personnel.

Regarding the crash that killed Thai Army 3rd Army Region deputy chief Maj Gen Songphol Thongchine, Army Chief Gen Udomdej Sitabutr said that there is no order to ground the Bell 212s.

He said Bell 212 helicopters are still in use worldwide and there are many army missions that need helicopters for their operations.

Meanwhile, Col Sirichan Nga-thong, deputy army spokesperson, said the Army Aviation Centre and the 3rd Army Region Command were investigating the incident.

They examined the crash site and collected the remains of the chopper on Tuesday.

"I confirm that the Army continues to use Bell 212 helicopters for missions as usual and there is not an order to suspend their services. The Army Aviation Centre has deployed aircraft of various types for missions in all army regions as assigned," Col Sirichan said.

Maj Gen Thana Jaruwat, spokesman of the 3rd Army Region Command, said that the helicopter that crashed began its service for the Army in 1995 and was deployed at the 3rd Army Region Command to serve commanders' missions. Lt Gen Sathit Pittharat, 3rd Army Region Commander, had boarded it last Friday.

Maj Gen Thana said an aircraft had a life span of 20-30 years. It should be replaced after 20 years of service, but Thai people maintained aircraft well, so they could be used for as long as 30 years, he said.

"{Monday] the helicopter left Phitsanulok province for Lampang and Phayao heading for Chiang Rai. That was within its flight range. Initially an engine breakdown was blamed but it has not been specified which part caused it. However, engineers always check their aircraft before every flight," the 3rd Army spokesman said. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2014-11-19

[webfact]

Gen Udomdej: Army to continue using Bell 212 copters despite tragic incident

BANGKOK, 19 Nov 2014, (NNT) - Royal Thai Army C-in-C General Udomdej Sitabutr has said the Army will take care of the families of the 9 officials killed in the recent helicopter crash in Phayao Province, while insisting that the Army would continue using its fleet of Bell 212 helicopters.

General Udomdej yesterday offered his condolences to the families of the dead. According to him, the slain officials will receive 9 levels of promotion and their families will be entitled to 7 levels of retirement funds. In addition, their children will also receive scholarship until they finish college, he added.

The Army Commander has also appointed the Army Aviation's Safety Committee to look into the cause of the crash. However, the process may take a while to reach a conclusion. General Udomdej has also reaffirmed that the Army would continue to use its Bell 212 helicopters, saying that these helicopters have been maintained regularly.

The Cabinet has already approved a budget for the purchase of a replacement helicopter, according to the General.


-- NNT 2014-11-19

[NeverSure]

"It should be replaced after 20 years of service, but Thai people maintained aircraft well, so they could be used for as long as 30 years, he said."

Thainess.

[Puyai]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"It should be replaced after 20 years of service, but Thai people maintained aircraft well, so they could be used for as long as 30 years, he said."

Thainess.

Beat me to it..

[canman]

"It should be replaced after 20 years of service, but Thai people maintained aircraft well, so they could be used for as long as 30 years, he said."

Thainess.

Not sure which is worse, the fact that they extend the manufactures reccomended working life by 50% or the fact that they have such a fool in charge that he would make this statement in public. The mind boggles!

[siampolee]

Never sure post # 3

"It should be replaced after 20 years of service, but Thai people maintained aircraft well, so they could be used for as long as 30 years, he said."

Thainess.

Reckon we old wrinklies should consult this chappy, seems as if he may well have the secret of eternal youth.

[useronthenet]

Quote "The Thai Army has given assurances that it will not ground its Bell 212 helicopters" ... as they have been assured at some point they will ground themselves.

[PREM-R]

Will General Prayuth be using one of these Bell 212's for his visit to Isaan?

[jollyman]

No no dear leader wouldn't be seen dead in one of these hueys, but maybe with good original parts, good service guys, strict quality control of servicing, they could still be safe. Its not the Helos need replacing, its the Thai pilots!

[RKASA]

"It should be replaced after 20 years of service, but Thai people maintained aircraft well, so they could be used for as long as 30 years"

Obviously.

Edited November 19, 2014 by petercool
unauthorised photo line removed

[jollyman]

Its better to be down here wishing you were up there, than being up there wishing you was down here!

BRING BACK YINGLUCK

Edited November 19, 2014 by jollyman

[Pond Life]

The manufacturer "Bell" does not recommend a life span of these helicopters.

I have worked on much older 212's than these, some 35 yrs old with 30,000 flight hours.

Its all down to the standards of maintenance & piloting.

[flyingspike]

If the right maintenance is done and they don't suffer significant damage no reason they shouldn't be around longer than 30 years. Bell 206s I started working on in the Australian Army 40 years ago are still going strong.

[jollyman]

They treat them like the Trains here in the Land of smiles, patch up, bastardize,borrow, beg, hope. I bet they never fly thier new brand new jets!

[Thai at Heart]

but Thai people maintained aircraft well, so they could be used for as long as 30 years, he said.

Just when the statement was going so well....lolololol

These clowns. I guess they are so good,he wi fly in them when they are 50 years old.

[SinCityGr8One]

All aircraft maintenance should be done by the book each and every time time, irregardless of how many times it's been done before. Just wondering if any maintenance short cuts were ever taken on that chopper?

[Chris Lawrence]

Well they kept using those bogus bomb detecting machines for a while?

[cms22]

No. The military officer is spot on. All militaries upgrade and extend the life of aircraft in collaboration with original manufacturers and local companies. This is very usual practice all over the word, certainly not a "Thai thing".

[ezzra]

No wonder why the Thai air force still flying those decrepit flying death traps, with the shoddy

maintenance that the locals are notoriously known for, they should have up graded their fleet

long time ago, but what can you do when the government squander all this cash on propping

" poor rice farmers " and there is nothing left for better use such as buying better and safer

aircrafts..

[retarius]

These helicopters seem to fall out of the sky with depressing regularity. I have never lived in a country where they have so many fatalities from helicopter crashes when they are not at war. Remember the fiasco in Burma a couple of years ago, when the Thai helicopter rescuing a crashed Thai helicopter in Burmese territory, also crashed....you can't make this stuff up. Could the Bell helicopter be the aerial equivalent of those plastic boxes bought by the Thai military as bomb detectors?

[kamahele]

This helicopter was still within it's normal lifespan according to the press release. We can all make comments with no facts to back them up concerning the age of the copter and how it was maintained but I would rather wait until an investigation is done by the government with the assistance of the manufacturer. The airline I used to work for started business in 1929 and uses one of it's original aircraft (rebuilt of course) to give tours to employees and retirees. Flying at the age of 85. I can remember a DC-3 still flying cargo in Hawaii when I was there in the 1990's as well.

[webfact]

Army Downplays Concern Over Old Choppers After Deadly Crash
By Khaosod English


Soldiers inspect the site of the helicopter crash in Phayao province, 17 November 2014.

BANGKOK — The Royal Thai Army has dismissed speculation that a helicopter crash that killed 9 servicemen earlier this week was a result of the aircraft’s old age.

The US-manufactured Bell-212 helicopter went down in a forest in Phayao province on 17 November, killing all nine of its passengers. Maj.Gen. Songphol Thongjeen, deputy commander of the Third Region Army, was among the fatalities.

The crash raised concerns that the age of the chopper, built during the Cold War and imported to Thailand in 1995, may have been a significant factor behind the incident. According to data provided by Thai army, the first batch of Bell-212 helicopters was purchased in 1976, and the last in 2004.

However, a spokesperson of Third Region Army said the age of the choppers is not a concern because Bell-212s can be used for up to 30 years.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1416390865


-- Khaosod English 2014-11-19

[planemad]

Clearly many Thai Visa members are privy to military aircraft maintenance procedures and are fully aware of all that is actually carried out as opposed to what is required `by the book`. Actually, the usual load of armchair experts who know little or nothing regarding the subject.

As has been pointed out by some of the more enlightened members, aircraft life span is not measured in years, but in the fatigue life that they have consumed. As an example, a passenger aircraft flying between Bangkok and Chaing Mai will have a far higher cycle rate than one flying regularly to say Sri Lanka, ergo, the shorter haul aircraft, without an upgrade refit, will be withdrawn from service long before the long haul aircraft.

With over 40 years of aircraft maintenance on both fast jets and cargo/passenger aircraft, I feel I am qualified to comment.

[maxme]

"It should be replaced after 20 years of service, but Thai people maintained aircraft well, so they could be used for as long as 30 years, he said."

Thainess.

Not sure which is worse, the fact that they extend the manufactures reccomended working life by 50% or ithe fact that they have such a fool in charge that he would make this statement in public. The mind boggles!

Deleted

Edited November 19, 2014 by maxme

[emilymat]

Clearly many Thai Visa members are privy to military aircraft maintenance procedures and are fully aware of all that is actually carried out as opposed to what is required `by the book`. Actually, the usual load of armchair experts who know little or nothing regarding the subject.

As has been pointed out by some of the more enlightened members, aircraft life span is not measured in years, but in the fatigue life that they have consumed. As an example, a passenger aircraft flying between Bangkok and Chaing Mai will have a far higher cycle rate than one flying regularly to say Sri Lanka, ergo, the shorter haul aircraft, without an upgrade refit, will be withdrawn from service long before the long haul aircraft.

With over 40 years of aircraft maintenance on both fast jets and cargo/passenger aircraft, I feel I am qualified to comment.

I guess what you're telling us is that it is the increased stress of multiple take offs and landings and compressions and de-compressions. I understand that but would it also apply to a chopper?. Honest enquiry.

[EnglishJohn]

"Maj Gen Thana said an aircraft had a life span of 20-30 years. It should be replaced after 20 years of service, but Thai people maintained aircraft well, so they could be used for as long as 30 years, he said."

He's given us the reason for the crash right there. How do buffoons who make arrogant statements like this get promoted to responsible positions ?. God only knows what numbskulls are in charge of maintenance.

Perhaps he could explain why Thailand has a helicopter go in every couple of months. I remember one went down a while back, then the one which went looking for it went down as well.

We all saw how well they are maintained when that parachute wire broke killing the police trainees because someone used some cheap stuff instead of aircraft grade equipment.

I think the truth is that Thailand just keeps using them until they crash. Life is cheap here but new helicopters aren't.

[55Jay]

What a strange article. I'm curious about the reason for the general's "reassurance" about not ground this type of helo.

Is there some group demanding this aircraft not be grounded, hence the reassurance it won't be?

Or does this general have a known habit of blurting unsolicited reassurances in the absence of a controversy? Well, besides a smoking hole in the ground and dead people.

Or is there a group demanding this type be grounded, even temporarily? In that case though, a reassurance isn't really the appropriate type of response. Maybe it's preemptive? Maybe it's a lost in translation thing. Just struck me as odd was all.

Now, if the Army were to order a full type grounding, would that prompt a Bell company rep to fly out here to ensure their brand wasn't being sullied for no reason or at their expense to cover up some other reason(s).

The Army is doing the investigation on their own and AFAICR, for a purely military crash, same in my country. The report will take some time, as they do, and the report may pass without much coverage months from now.

Now if the Thais indicate a Bell issue caused or contributed significantly to the events leading to the crash, they can count on a Bell rep being on the next plane to Swampy. That could turn out one of two ways but I'm willing to bet 10 Baht right now that it won't be a Bell issue. The report will pass quietly and in doing so, there is no danger of any uncomfortable lights being cast on the Army's helo training and maintenance programs.

Besides, the General has already given the public the program benchmarks in a very succinct way, and one that fills all our chests with national pride. The reputations of the living and deceased are intact, family members are taken care of in a very generous manner and in the absence of a known trend in Thai helo crashes of this type, there is no reason to speculate.

CASE

[lumply]

"It should be replaced after 20 years of service, but Thai people maintained aircraft well, so they could be used for as long as 30 years, he said."

Thainess.

Not sure which is worse, the fact that they extend the manufactures reccomended working life by 50% or the fact that they have such a fool in charge that he would make this statement in public. The mind boggles!

Which manufacturer gives a recommended working life? An aircraft is as old as its' last major check. The oldest aircraft I flew was a 1938 Tiger Moth, that included a spot of aerobatics. I would never have signed off the aircraft if I had any doubts as to its reliability, just like any responsible pilot prior to each flight the world over.

[Sviss Geez]

"It should be replaced after 20 years of service, but Thai people maintained aircraft well, so they could be used for as long as 30 years"

Obviously.

Was there any need for you to accompany your pathetic post with a picture of one of the victims?

[55Jay]

This helicopter was still within it's normal lifespan according to the press release. We can all make comments with no facts to back them up concerning the age of the copter and how it was maintained but I would rather wait until an investigation is done by the government with the assistance of the manufacturer. The airline I used to work for started business in 1929 and uses one of it's original aircraft (rebuilt of course) to give tours to employees and retirees. Flying at the age of 85. I can remember a DC-3 still flying cargo in Hawaii when I was there in the 1990's as well.

An investigation by the government is all your gunna get, mister. Nothing from the manufacturer because they'll never be brought into it.

If I know Thais and preventive maintenance discipline, my hunch is this is a maintenance and/or training problem. However, as long as the investigation is done by the Thai Army, who is the one doing the training and the maintenance, we'll never be the wiser.