Why Does A Successful Intelligent Farang Marry A Bar Girl

[kerryk]

I pay you money for something you have and you give me what you have that I paid for. You can tell me it is to prove my worth or solidify family relationships or just about anything else, it remains a sale.

I am sorry, but that sounds like an archetypical capitalist way of thinking. You may be surprised that not all cultures think on the basis of Adam Smith's work, the Wealth of Nations. Some cultures are actually traditional. I am sure you are very knowledgeable, Kerry, so surely you must realise that you are looking at Sin Sot through a pair of very thick (American?) glasses.

You are giving your subjective view of Thai culture. You don't like it because you see Sin Sot as some money deal whereas Thais see it differently.

As the father of four daughters I don’t see anything wrong with sin sot. I would be more than happy to accept it. I paid a tremendous amount of money for proper schools and braces and clothes and other contrivances to make my little babies attractive to the opposite sex.

Heck I think sin sot is a great idea.

I don’t have any problem paying sin sot.

I think sin sot should be made the law of the planet.

But after all of that I think it is selling a woman.

Lets call a spade a spade.

As a father do I think it would be nice to be compensated for all of the money I have spent? Yes. Heck yes.

But I am not wearing any rose colored glasses. I realize it is selling my daughter.

If a bidding war ensues the highest bidder may not get the prize because that would be up to my daughter.

But it is still a sale nevertheless.

[Egon]

I pay you money for something you have and you give me what you have that I paid for. You can tell me it is to prove my worth or solidify family relationships or just about anything else, it remains a sale.

I am sorry, but that sounds like an archetypical capitalist way of thinking. You may be surprised that not all cultures think on the basis of Adam Smith's work, the Wealth of Nations. Some cultures are actually traditional. I am sure you are very knowledgeable, Kerry, so surely you must realise that you are looking at Sin Sot through a pair of very thick (American?) glasses.

You are giving your subjective view of Thai culture. You don't like it because you see Sin Sot as some money deal whereas Thais see it differently.

As the father of four daughters I don’t see anything wrong with sin sot. I would be more than happy to accept it. I paid a tremendous amount of money for proper schools and braces and clothes and other contrivances to make my little babies attractive to the opposite sex.

Heck I think sin sot is a great idea.

I don’t have any problem paying sin sot.

I think sin sot should be made the law of the planet.

But after all of that I think it is selling a woman.

Lets call a spade a spade.

As a father do I think it would be nice to be compensated for all of the money I have spent? Yes. Heck yes.

But I am not wearing any rose colored glasses. I realize it is selling my daughter.

If a bidding war ensues the highest bidder may not get the prize because that would be up to my daughter.

But it is still a sale nevertheless.

I disagree. Please read this

[kerryk]

I pay you money for something you have and you give me what you have that I paid for. You can tell me it is to prove my worth or solidify family relationships or just about anything else, it remains a sale.

I am sorry, but that sounds like an archetypical capitalist way of thinking. You may be surprised that not all cultures think on the basis of Adam Smith's work, the Wealth of Nations. Some cultures are actually traditional. I am sure you are very knowledgeable, Kerry, so surely you must realise that you are looking at Sin Sot through a pair of very thick (American?) glasses.

You are giving your subjective view of Thai culture. You don't like it because you see Sin Sot as some money deal whereas Thais see it differently.

As the father of four daughters I don’t see anything wrong with sin sot. I would be more than happy to accept it. I paid a tremendous amount of money for proper schools and braces and clothes and other contrivances to make my little babies attractive to the opposite sex.

Heck I think sin sot is a great idea.

I don’t have any problem paying sin sot.

I think sin sot should be made the law of the planet.

But after all of that I think it is selling a woman.

Lets call a spade a spade.

As a father do I think it would be nice to be compensated for all of the money I have spent? Yes. Heck yes.

But I am not wearing any rose colored glasses. I realize it is selling my daughter.

If a bidding war ensues the highest bidder may not get the prize because that would be up to my daughter.

But it is still a sale nevertheless.

I disagree. Please read this

Yes I read it. You missed my point. I see nothing wrong with sin sot. I think it should happen in the West as well as Thailand.

It only seems fair that I be compensated for the amount of money I have spent on my daughters.

I should even get more money if I have preserved their virginity.

As any father knows this is a difficult task.

If I have educated them at considerable expense I should be compensated for that also.

My only point was that is a sale. I don’t even want anything for perceived beauty. Just pay me for what I have into the person.

[Boon Mee]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....................... blah, blah,blah...............

sorry.... the question will never be answered!!!!

Carry on ,

My thoughts exactly...

Bet this one won't go on as long as 'Rain' though

[Donz]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....................... blah, blah,blah...............

sorry.... the question will never be answered!!!!

Carry on ,

My thoughts exactly...

Bet this one won't go on as long as 'Rain' though

How about we just say im right and be done with it.

Its hard to change peoples mind on this subject because there really isnt much proof.

So lets just get together and say yes Donz, you are right

[britmaveric]

Donz - Fk No.

[Donz]

Guys, you just dont listen !! Trust me, ive been here over 4 years and I know, over 50% of students WILL sleep with a punter for money, its fact ! Thats 50%+ that will sleep with me, not necessarily you !!!

Listen, you cant give an exact percentage, this percentage is determined by a multitude of things, and its you, not them ! Now if Gonz is 50 years old but has a fair bit of confidence hes going to say 20%, if Steve is half a looker, under 50 and oozes with confidence and wit then he might say 30%, as for me im under 40, handsome, confident and extremely witty therefore, im going to perceive this as 50% !

Now I will reiterate this, 50% (or over) of Thai students WILL sleep with me for money !!! As for terry, hes the kiddy no matter what so he will be right up there too !

Actually, im feeling good today, im going to say 70% !!!!

thanks for that tax,

look thats why your my best ever mate tax as your a kind hearted, gentle and a good looking punter.

im a very handsome fella myself and me and you can really pull the birds cant we.

look ive said it before that i have so much respect for you that i hope you live for ever.

im going to go one step further here tax and say this in front of all who are reading this forum because im loud and proud and never afraid to voice my true inner feelings.

if i was batting for the other side id want you for my ladyboy.

but im not, so get that thought right out of your frigging head alright !!!

cricky's tax, you sure get some funny ideas at times but your my best mate and thats ok with me.

see you latter buddy.

Talking to yourself again Terry? you know there are people who can help

Hey Tax, your a funny guy, but i dont need money for that and think i have a greater % then that

No worries mate, sorry about that but I just picked out a few names off the top of my head. Your ok fella !

I could have used Lacoste's name but man, this guys so ugly I would have him down to about 0.00000001% on the "percentage of girls that would sleep with me" scale !

Just look at his posts, you can see this guy has had more nockbacks than an tequila glass on a good day !!!

Hey terry, this sort of thread doesnt half bring them out eh ? You need an award bro', your a freaking god in my eyes !! When I see you I will buy you 25 beers no frigging problem dude !!

The differences between you and i are many, I do not and have never had to pay to have sex. I would not date or marry a prostitute and i also dont have conversations with myself on the internet.

You however do (Terry57 aka Taxin) again your a freak.

Quote, "The differences between you and I are many, I do not and have never had to pay to have sex. I would not date or marry a prostitute. "

That’s it isn’t it. The crux of it.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

1. You feel morally superior to men who pay for it?

2. You feel that men who pay for it are morally inferior to you?

3. You feel that your values are superior to a culture that includes paying for females as part of it’s nature?

4. You feel that because you have never paid for sex that makes you a better man than those men who have paid for sex?

I feel superior to all man, no matter who you are, I will tell you more when i get another ego burst

[Donz]

anything close to 50% is rediculas, 10% max. thats a fact.

[siamesekitty]

Thanks Egon. However, as I mentioned to Gnarly in my earlier post (to which she apparently agrees)...

[Donz]

Thanks Egon. However, as I mentioned to Gnarly in my earlier post (to which she apparently agrees)...

Well im sure you both agree with me

[britmaveric]

anything close to 50% is rediculas, 10% max. thats a fact.

20% is prob more accurate - however since student population is changing on a yearly basis - could be less or more.

[Donz]

Ill stick by 10%, as i think that is probaly closer to being accurate. 20% isnt far off i dont think, but 50% is like a figure that is totally overblown

[GoodHeart]

Heck I think sin sot is a great idea.

I don’t have any problem paying sin sot.

But after all of that I think it is selling a woman.

It is not the selling of a woman! Think of it as her Divorce Insurance policy- paid in advance. A lump sum payment.

How desirable are divorced women in this society? Not very. Sin sot is all the woman has if the man decides to leave a marriage [assuming her parents pass it on to her, but that's another thread].

[ilyushin]

I decided it was better to take the bar girl home than to stay at the bar.

[meemiathai]

No the difference is you think most woman here are for sale, i do not.

So, what do you call sin sot?

Do a search on sinsod/dowry and you might find a couple of my posts on the subject. I used to try to explain certain aspects of the Thai culture to people here before getting tired of it.

I wouldn't bother kitty..some people are ignorant when it comes to other cultures.

totster

Yes they are, a dowry is a sum of money given by the bride’s family to the groom.

but not a sale.

I pay you money for something you have and you give me what you have that I paid for. You can tell me it is to prove my worth or solidify family relationships or just about anything else, it remains a sale.

Some cultures value women, Thailand. Some cultures value men, the Western world (a long time ago). Some cultures pay men to marry women and some cultures pay women to marry men.

I think it is obvious that the exchange of money for services is a sale.

As Thailand continues on it’s journey to be just like other Western societies it will eventually drop wife selling as a normal procedure.

This is something that is uncomfortable for Thais to discuss. As a recent article on a well known Thai Farang site demonstrates.

I would really like to see some more posts from Gnarly here but I fear that she will take the Thai road of not confronting reality and open discussion with the secure path of non confrontation. It is easier to pop in one time and then scurry back to oblivion without discussing the issues.

So do you also think most HK women are prostitutes? Coz most marriages in HK still involve a dowry. That means as what you said as selling.

May I suggest politely that you are being a bit stupid on this one if you or any other members here insist on saying this is a selling of a woman? You know danm well this do not imply as selling. It is a custom. It is something being done so many times for thousand of years that made people blindfully follow as a habit.

[Donz]

No the difference is you think most woman here are for sale, i do not.

So, what do you call sin sot?

Do a search on sinsod/dowry and you might find a couple of my posts on the subject. I used to try to explain certain aspects of the Thai culture to people here before getting tired of it.

I wouldn't bother kitty..some people are ignorant when it comes to other cultures.

totster

Yes they are, a dowry is a sum of money given by the bride’s family to the groom.

but not a sale.

I pay you money for something you have and you give me what you have that I paid for. You can tell me it is to prove my worth or solidify family relationships or just about anything else, it remains a sale.

Some cultures value women, Thailand. Some cultures value men, the Western world (a long time ago). Some cultures pay men to marry women and some cultures pay women to marry men.

I think it is obvious that the exchange of money for services is a sale.

As Thailand continues on it’s journey to be just like other Western societies it will eventually drop wife selling as a normal procedure.

This is something that is uncomfortable for Thais to discuss. As a recent article on a well known Thai Farang site demonstrates.

I would really like to see some more posts from Gnarly here but I fear that she will take the Thai road of not confronting reality and open discussion with the secure path of non confrontation. It is easier to pop in one time and then scurry back to oblivion without discussing the issues.

So do you also think most HK women are prostitutes? Coz most marriages in HK still involve a dowry. That means as what you said as selling.

May I suggest politely that you are being a bit stupid on this one if you or any other members here insist on saying this is a selling of a woman? You know danm well this do not imply as selling. It is a custom. It is something being done so many times for thousand of years that made people blindfully follow as a habit.

So kerry, if someone gives there wife a salary do you consider this as renting her out also?

Or maybe buying her a hamburger is also buying her off.

If you think paying a dowry is selling you must also think taking a girl a girl home after buying her a drink must be swapping a drink for sex??

[johnh101]

Scenario 1.

I know a girl in North Pattaya who owns and runs a beauty salon. Good looking girl, college educated. To my knowledge she has at least 4 farang 'boyfriends' and each believes that they alone have paid for the salon, one also bought her a brand new car (and she cannot drive). She quite sucsessfully manages to juggle their schedules around to ensure that they are never here at the same time and when they are not here she is not shy in looking for some fresh victims. On her off days she relaxes with her overweight and unemployed Thai boyfriend.

Scenario 2.

My wife and I know a girl who works in a large beautique in South Pattaya (this girl is gorgeous), again she is college educated and she is always immaculately dressed and fluent in English. She has 3 farang 'boyfriends', each who send her at least 40,000 baht a month to ensure that she will wait only for them.When the time is right she has said she will choose one to get married to, but at the moment she is having too much fun.

Scenario 3.

A very good friend met a girl who worked in a bar, they hit it off from day one. She fessed up all the details of her past which actually only included intermitent bar work. Anyway after 3 years they got engaged and marraige followed shortly after, they have been together now 6 years and are the perfect example of a happy farang / thai relationship. There is give and take on both sides and it is very successful. She is good looking, well mannered, has learned english he tries to learn Thai and no sin sot was requested for their marraige. Although I am aware that there are small donations to the family everynow and again.

Which guy would you rather be ?

Edited August 7, 2006 by johnh101

[Neeranam]

Aye aye, fit like? - cool avatar!

Good point, I'd rather be the third guy if those were the only choices.

But then again, the guys in 1 and 2 may already be married and have heaps of mia nois and money.

Don't go to Pattaya looking for a long-term relationship.

[Donz]

Scenario 1.

I know a girl in North Pattaya who owns and runs a beauty salon. Good looking girl, college educated. To my knowledge she has at least 4 farang 'boyfriends' and each believes that they alone have paid for the salon, one also bought her a brand new car (and she cannot drive). She quite sucsessfully manages to juggle their schedules around to ensure that they are never here at the same time and when they are not here she is not shy in looking for some fresh victims. On her off days she relaxes with her overweight and unemployed Thai boyfriend.

Scenario 2.

My wife and I know a girl who works in a large beautique in South Pattaya (this girl is gorgeous), again she is college educated and she is always immaculately dressed and fluent in English. She has 3 farang 'boyfriends', each who send her at least 40,000 baht a month to ensure that she will wait only for them.When the time is right she has said she will choose one to get married to, but at the moment she is having too much fun.

Scenario 3.

A very good friend met a girl who worked in a bar, they hit it off from day one. She fessed up all the details of her past which actually only included intermitent bar work. Anyway after 3 years they got egaged andmarraige followed shortly after, they have been together now 6 years and are the perfect example of a happy farang / thai relationship. There is give and take on both sides and it is verysuccessfrul. She is good looking, well mannered, has learnedenglish and no sin sot was requested for there marraige. Although I am aware that there are small donations to the family everynow and again.

Which guy would you rather be ?

I would choose number 2.

I would like the goergous (spelling) looking one, cause i would send her a chq that would bounce.

And I know sure i will be the one she chooses because she cant resist me

[meemiathai]

"Some ignorant farangs may be thinking right now that, "well, your type is rare." Well define "rare". Let's say I have 100 friends. If I'm rare that means at most 10-15 of those friends are like me, or in other words, 85+ are those "stereotypical Thai girls". Well I can assure you that I know more than 100 Thai females and I can assure you that NONE of them are of those stereotypical Thai females.

Thanks for this Gnarly, and your entire post that complemented it. I'm quite sure each of those 85 people also know an overwhelming majority of other people who are no way similar to what many people here would consider "Thai".

The statement made by one poster that the Thai economy would collapse if prostitution was made illegal certainly made a huge impression on me on the total exposure to Thailand of the poster, especially when he started showing concern on how the tattooists would survive.

What’s becoming increasingly clear is how many people are consistently surrounded by tourist side to Thailand, whether it be KSR or Pattaya, and not the place I live and work within daily.

The carrier Kittyhawk will dock in Pattaya in a couple of weeks. Do you know how much it will impact the businesses of Pattaya?

Do you know how much Pattaya contributes to the Thai economy?

You can give me rough estimates and I will think you have a clue about the Thai economy.

Do you know how much the average Thai restaurant makes from bus tours from China to Chiang Mai?

Do you know what is the major export of clothing from Thailand to the rest of the world is?

Do you know how much oil or gas is produced in Thailand?

Maybe you know the answers to these questions. Impress me.

If not I would say your opinions are as important as a fart in a windstorm.

Anyone who has just a little bit of knowledge of Thailand will know that people are going to starve to death if it wasn't for the help to the economy from prostitution. We all must have seen how little they can get from the lands!

[meemiathai]

I pay you money for something you have and you give me what you have that I paid for. You can tell me it is to prove my worth or solidify family relationships or just about anything else, it remains a sale.

I am sorry, but that sounds like an archetypical capitalist way of thinking. You may be surprised that not all cultures think on the basis of Adam Smith's work, the Wealth of Nations. Some cultures are actually traditional. I am sure you are very knowledgeable, Kerry, so surely you must realise that you are looking at Sin Sot through a pair of very thick (American?) glasses.

You are giving your subjective view of Thai culture. You don't like it because you see Sin Sot as some money deal whereas Thais see it differently.

It is always nice to see that there are indeed occasionally some understanding farangs.

Nice post!

[Heng]

My only point was that is a sale.

Not if it's only for show, or is returned. Then it's nothing different than combing your hair and making sure your tie is on straight.

[Insight]

"Some ignorant farangs may be thinking right now that, "well, your type is rare." Well define "rare". Let's say I have 100 friends. If I'm rare that means at most 10-15 of those friends are like me, or in other words, 85+ are those "stereotypical Thai girls". Well I can assure you that I know more than 100 Thai females and I can assure you that NONE of them are of those stereotypical Thai females.

Thanks for this Gnarly, and your entire post that complemented it. I'm quite sure each of those 85 people also know an overwhelming majority of other people who are no way similar to what many people here would consider "Thai".

The statement made by one poster that the Thai economy would collapse if prostitution was made illegal certainly made a huge impression on me on the total exposure to Thailand of the poster, especially when he started showing concern on how the tattooists would survive.

What’s becoming increasingly clear is how many people are consistently surrounded by tourist side to Thailand, whether it be KSR or Pattaya, and not the place I live and work within daily.

The carrier Kittyhawk will dock in Pattaya in a couple of weeks. Do you know how much it will impact the businesses of Pattaya?

Do you know how much Pattaya contributes to the Thai economy?

You can give me rough estimates and I will think you have a clue about the Thai economy.

Do you know how much the average Thai restaurant makes from bus tours from China to Chiang Mai?

Do you know what is the major export of clothing from Thailand to the rest of the world is?

Do you know how much oil or gas is produced in Thailand?

Maybe you know the answers to these questions. Impress me.

If not I would say your opinions are as important as a fart in a windstorm.

I think you're taking this one on one of your bizarre tattoo tangents again. Pattaya would no doubt be hit if prostitution was outlawed and would probably have to reinvent itself. Saying that, do you believe all tourists visit here (as in Thailand as a whole, not just Pattaya) for a complete shagfest? Are the tourists that do even in the majority? Is Thailands economy as a whole completely dependant on tourism?

I can ask questions too.

[kerryk]

My only point was that is a sale.

Not if it's only for show, or is returned. Then it's nothing different than combing your hair and making sure your tie is on straight.

When I married my first wife we got $20,000 at the wedding from the guests and her grandfather gave me $100,000 worth of property and an allowance of $10,000 per month.

When I left the marriage I forfeited the property and allowance. Our two families had know each other for over 50 years. Both were very happy at the union because it insured large assets stay in the family and were properly managed.

It was also an incentive for me to stay married to a woman who was crazy. Beautiful but crazy.

This kind of transaction has a long history in the West.

I doubt whether English people thought of a dowry as buying a husband.

I think it is interesting to note that in England one paid a husband to take a woman and in Thailand one pay the brides family to marry a daughter. Hmmmm.

[Plus]

I was only trying to point out to the posters who frowned on Farangs marrying bar girls that paying for women was widespread in Thai culture.

Using prostitutes and marrying them are two vastly different things. Yet from Kerryk view of sin sod it appears that he meant sin sod, not prostitution, though from Kerryk view of sin sod it appears that he sees no difference between them.

BTW, have you sen the car park at that MBK where every second girl will sleep with you for 500 baht? For every floor there are two levels in the car park, usually full, and it's not even free.

Bangkok standard is that a family should have a house and a car, and, judging by official registration papers, there IS a car for every two voters here, i.e husband+wife. And 80% own houses. Every Bangkokian girl expects to marry a man, build a family, buy a house, a car, have children, and be "successful" in her life, and vast majority of them actually succeed.

A prostitute, BG or karaoke girl, doesn't matter, has no chance at it whatsoever, no one would even marry her, let alone provide her with a house, and her children will never know who their farthers were. Why would a Bangkok girl chose that way of life? If anyone actually does it, they surely don't tell it to their families - it's a major failure in life.

There are plenty of prostitues in Thailand, true, but they are outcasts, they are not part of society as Thais want to see it. You may argue that they should be accepted, perhpas as equals, but it's not going to happen any time soon. So they recruit new cadres from similar outcasts, people with no other future, not from the mainstream society.

Many people here mentioned the reaction of Thai girls to the idea of sleeping with farangs. It's easy to understand if they have a stereotype that a farang would marry a whore. They generally don't want to know if men visit prostitutes, what their reaction would be to someone who marries a whore and parades her around for everyone to see? That's a major lack of manners, taste, understanding of Thai culture and so on. They might also think that these men do not deserve them, as they don't value chastity (if not virginity).

Why "intellegent" farangs do it? Sex, lots of it, and care, and the ability to live with ex-whores without being publicly ostracised, and the ability to convince themselves that it's normal Thai practice and 50% of Thai women are for sale. I don't know it's what they call "intellegent" though.

[Lacoste]

I was only trying to point out to the posters who frowned on Farangs marrying bar girls that paying for women was widespread in Thai culture.

Using prostitutes and marrying them are two vastly different things. Yet from Kerryk view of sin sod it appears that he meant sin sod, not prostitution, though from Kerryk view of sin sod it appears that he sees no difference between them.

BTW, have you sen the car park at that MBK where every second girl will sleep with you for 500 baht? For every floor there are two levels in the car park, usually full, and it's not even free.

Bangkok standard is that a family should have a house and a car, and, judging by official registration papers, there IS a car for every two voters here, i.e husband+wife. And 80% own houses. Every Bangkokian girl expects to marry a man, build a family, buy a house, a car, have children, and be "successful" in her life, and vast majority of them actually succeed.

A prostitute, BG or karaoke girl, doesn't matter, has no chance at it whatsoever, no one would even marry her, let alone provide her with a house, and her children will never know who their farthers were. Why would a Bangkok girl chose that way of life? If anyone actually does it, they surely don't tell it to their families - it's a major failure in life.

There are plenty of prostitues in Thailand, true, but they are outcasts, they are not part of society as Thais want to see it. You may argue that they should be accepted, perhpas as equals, but it's not going to happen any time soon. So they recruit new cadres from similar outcasts, people with no other future, not from the mainstream society.

Many people here mentioned the reaction of Thai girls to the idea of sleeping with farangs. It's easy to understand if they have a stereotype that a farang would marry a whore. They generally don't want to know if men visit prostitutes, what their reaction would be to someone who marries a whore and parades her around for everyone to see? That's a major lack of manners, taste, understanding of Thai culture and so on. They might also think that these men do not deserve them, as they don't value chastity (if not virginity).

Why "intellegent" farangs do it? Sex, lots of it, and care, and the ability to live with ex-whores without being publicly ostracised, and the ability to convince themselves that it's normal Thai practice and 50% of Thai women are for sale. I don't know it's what they call "intellegent" though.

Very nicely put squire.

[Heng]

My only point was that is a sale.

Not if it's only for show, or is returned. Then it's nothing different than combing your hair and making sure your tie is on straight.

This kind of transaction has a long history in the West.

I doubt whether English people thought of a dowry as buying a husband.

I'd say it has an even longer history in the East.

It's clear that many folks that want to compare sin sods and prostitution are those who simply want to normalize their relationships (perhaps married prostitutes themselves and want to rationalize that the majority do so as well).

[kerryk]

"Some ignorant farangs may be thinking right now that, "well, your type is rare." Well define "rare". Let's say I have 100 friends. If I'm rare that means at most 10-15 of those friends are like me, or in other words, 85+ are those "stereotypical Thai girls". Well I can assure you that I know more than 100 Thai females and I can assure you that NONE of them are of those stereotypical Thai females.

Thanks for this Gnarly, and your entire post that complemented it. I'm quite sure each of those 85 people also know an overwhelming majority of other people who are no way similar to what many people here would consider "Thai".

The statement made by one poster that the Thai economy would collapse if prostitution was made illegal certainly made a huge impression on me on the total exposure to Thailand of the poster, especially when he started showing concern on how the tattooists would survive.

What’s becoming increasingly clear is how many people are consistently surrounded by tourist side to Thailand, whether it be KSR or Pattaya, and not the place I live and work within daily.

The carrier Kittyhawk will dock in Pattaya in a couple of weeks. Do you know how much it will impact the businesses of Pattaya?

Do you know how much Pattaya contributes to the Thai economy?

You can give me rough estimates and I will think you have a clue about the Thai economy.

Do you know how much the average Thai restaurant makes from bus tours from China to Chiang Mai?

Do you know what is the major export of clothing from Thailand to the rest of the world is?

Do you know how much oil or gas is produced in Thailand?

Maybe you know the answers to these questions. Impress me.

If not I would say your opinions are as important as a fart in a windstorm.

I think you're taking this one on one of your bizarre tattoo tangents again. Pattaya would no doubt be hit if prostitution was outlawed and would probably have to reinvent itself. Saying that, do you believe all tourists visit here (as in Thailand as a whole, not just Pattaya) for a complete shagfest? Are the tourists that do even in the majority? Is Thailands economy as a whole completely dependant on tourism?

I can ask questions too.

No, I don’t think everyone is here for a shagfest. I think you have to include Farang living here in the tourist market. The guys that came here to marry a bar girl or any girl for that matter. How much does the average Thai spend per day?

It you take Chiang Mai as an example I think it is about 300 baht per day. I would say the average Farang living in Chiang Mai spends 2000 baht per day. That is the equivalent of what 6 Thais spend. If 20,000 Farangs live in Chiang Mai and Chiang Mai has a population of 500,000 the Farangs spend 25% of the dollars spent in Chiang Mai. Add 14,000 tourists a day times six and you have 41% of the dollars spent in Chiang Mai are from non Thai sources.

A note to my technical editors. I just woke up and am only on my second cup of green tea so the numbers may be a little off. The population of Chiang Mai may be closer to one million and the number of Farangs living here may be closer to 40,000. I think the tourist figure of 14,000 is low because of the tremendous amount of busses I see coming in from China. Also the number of 2000 per day might be off on the tour groups.

In any event it is my gut feeling that tourism dollars in Chiang Mai are around 40% of the gross product of the city.

To go back to the topic of this forum I think a large part of those dollars are brought in by Farang men with Thai brides or looking for Thai brides or just looking.

A personal observation. Anyone who goes to the Night Bazaar to shop must have a screw loose. The major attraction in Chiang Mai are the Chiang Mai women. I don’t mean a shag fest. Just looking is breathtaking.

[Donz]

I was only trying to point out to the posters who frowned on Farangs marrying bar girls that paying for women was widespread in Thai culture.

Using prostitutes and marrying them are two vastly different things. Yet from Kerryk view of sin sod it appears that he meant sin sod, not prostitution, though from Kerryk view of sin sod it appears that he sees no difference between them.

BTW, have you sen the car park at that MBK where every second girl will sleep with you for 500 baht? For every floor there are two levels in the car park, usually full, and it's not even free.

Bangkok standard is that a family should have a house and a car, and, judging by official registration papers, there IS a car for every two voters here, i.e husband+wife. And 80% own houses. Every Bangkokian girl expects to marry a man, build a family, buy a house, a car, have children, and be "successful" in her life, and vast majority of them actually succeed.

A prostitute, BG or karaoke girl, doesn't matter, has no chance at it whatsoever, no one would even marry her, let alone provide her with a house, and her children will never know who their farthers were. Why would a Bangkok girl chose that way of life? If anyone actually does it, they surely don't tell it to their families - it's a major failure in life.

There are plenty of prostitues in Thailand, true, but they are outcasts, they are not part of society as Thais want to see it. You may argue that they should be accepted, perhpas as equals, but it's not going to happen any time soon. So they recruit new cadres from similar outcasts, people with no other future, not from the mainstream society.

Many people here mentioned the reaction of Thai girls to the idea of sleeping with farangs. It's easy to understand if they have a stereotype that a farang would marry a whore. They generally don't want to know if men visit prostitutes, what their reaction would be to someone who marries a whore and parades her around for everyone to see? That's a major lack of manners, taste, understanding of Thai culture and so on. They might also think that these men do not deserve them, as they don't value chastity (if not virginity).

Why "intellegent" farangs do it? Sex, lots of it, and care, and the ability to live with ex-whores without being publicly ostracised, and the ability to convince themselves that it's normal Thai practice and 50% of Thai women are for sale. I don't know it's what they call "intellegent" though.

That is the best post so far and is totally accurate

[kerryk]

Reply to Plus,

I did not mean to compare sin sod to prostitution. I meant to imply that Thais are used to paying for women and that the stigma of prostitution is not the same in Thai culture as in Western culture.

The concept of women as chattel died out a couple of hundred of years ago in the West but only 60 or so years in Thailand and it still exists in parts of SEA.

For Thai Yuppies your post is 100% accurate but 60% of the Thai population are farmers and it is not accurate among them.