Wilsonandson Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Jabis you forgot your tablets too. Nevermind, there, there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabis Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 What are you babbling about Wilson? You had no part in the early conversation, why even address me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inutil Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) In answer to your points directly: 1. Assuming it was.... when was that? When the democratically elected members of parliament were enacting and voting on legislation and the opposition were holding them to account either through democratic means directly in house or indirectly through the media. 2. Causes/Effects way off target. I dont recall stating the causes of the unrest in BKK nor do i infact recall stating anything of the effects. I said that HAD the Democrats held PTP to account POLITICALLY and DEMOCRATICALLY then PTP would have faced a strong split in their vote. These were not vote winning issues. Their core support were disgusted at the time with the amnesty bill as well. And the farmers were still waiting for payment and planning action. It does not take a political genius to see that these were issues that strongly affected the Shinawatra government and could have been easily capitalised on by the opposition. Heck, it could have even led to a split in the coalition as some parties may have felt that their continued involvement in the coalition was costing them support. If youd like to point out where this is controversial and off target, id of course be willing to listen. 3. Direct democracy rather facile. Its point is to draw out one of the biggest features of representative democracy. To wit: you vote for the representative and when they are elected they are completely free to vote on their own conscience on not on the will of their electorate. Facile or not, if i want to make the point that a representative can and will do this, i can think of no better way than comparing it to "direct democracy". Direct democracy, in case you dont know, is where the person you elect is simply the mouthpiece of your groups democratic will and thus is not free to vote against the democratic will of their group. Its an important and necessary political distinction. I didnt even go into it. This means that Yingluck can in fact push for more types of amnesty to be put on the bill for the house, and then push her party to put it through a vote even if it pisses off her voting bloc. It also means that not only her, but also the representatives who voted for this bill on her behalf (whether out of conscience, political expedience, or just because they thought it would play well in their constituency), would have been rather worried when they saw the political backlash on not only the content of this bill, but also the way it was pushed through the house. Again, political acts have political consequences. This was not a vote winning action and LIKELY (im not psychic), would have cost PTP a great many votes in the next election. 4. Not having the army involved... Since this is precisely the point of my entire post, im curious why youre making this as your final remark (in a post that seems to be arguing against my position). Its odd, dude. Its not the first time to be honest. Still, no harm, somehow you got that numpty above to agree with us both because he also didnt realise that you and i are actually making the same point Edited November 22, 2014 by inutil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilsonandson Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I'm sorry General Jabis. Please don't send me into self exile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilsonandson Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Man u fan in breach of rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 A post has been removed. Please just don't even go there. In using Thai Visa you agree to abide by the following terms:1) You will not express disrespect of the King of Thailand or any one member of the Thai royal family, whether living or deceased, nor to criticize the monarchy as an institution.By law, the Thai Royal Family are above politics. Speculation, comments and discussion of either a political or personal nature are not allowed when discussing HM The King or the Royal family.*Discussion of the Lese Majeste law or Lese Majeste cases is permitted on the forum, providing no comment or speculation is made referencing the royal family.To breach these rules may result in immediate ban.Linking to external sites which break these rules will be treated as if you yourself posted them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilsonandson Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Just a note on what MJP said, I have seen lots of these posts recently and hope people will stop this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Just a note on what MJP said, I have seen lots of these posts recently and hope people will stop this. For the love of all that is decent, please, please hit the report button as soon as you do! It's very tricky to keep up with every post made here and we're somewhat reliant on the responsible posters to use the report button. Big thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilsonandson Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Hey MJP, nothing really bad has been posted just a few borderline comments. I'm sure a forum with comments from foreigners will always have ignorant posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Hey MJP, nothing really bad has been posted just a few borderline comments. I'm sure a forum with comments from foreigners will always have ignorant posts. Even borderline ones. Anything beyond 'happy birthday' and 'get well soon' needs to be be reported regardless. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwyn Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 with a landslide victory as Thaksin / Yingluck. yes with vote buying You do understand you are up against 3 independent studies which rather precisely put the lie to this rote repeated claim. Just saying something over and over simply doesn't make it true. Hi Snig, would you be kind enough to send a link to the report from the Oz Uni, the one proving or establishing the YL election was most credible election in E Asia? I can't wait to ram that one down a few throats on here!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwyn Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 JOC May 22nd, Whats important about this date to my previous post? JOC seems to think you're not aware that there has been a coup and YL is no longer PM. Me? I think you're taking the p*ss!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksam Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 What is wrong with all you xpat "experts" on other countries. Tonight I'm sitting outside a beer garden in fortune town with bunch of Thai. That all think you are ting tong. So what has martial law done for the folk that actually work and live here. I'm listening to good music, having beer or 10 . Tomorrow I might get MRT to bar and watch Manny Pacquiou fight and enjoy Thailand. I will let you to##ers stick your nose into Thai politics. Which by the way is internal. Don't you just love the way USA state they would like return to D asap. Have to love em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Haggis Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Wilsonandson ^^^^^ 555555 this coming from a guy who has been trolling for the past 3 days and seemingly getting away with it too!! Now then Wilson instead of posting one liners all the time is there any chance you could reply to the question I asked you earlier. Based on all the dictionaries and thesaurus and and Wikipedia what description applies to the PM who incidentally broke the law by staging the coup in the first place according to Thai law and the constitution, applies to him seeing as you have dismissed everyone else's definitions. I know I shouldn't be feeding the troll but I'm curious as to whether your here to debate and learn to understand Thailand better, or just here to stir the shit? Is English your native language as well ? You are writing in the style of a teenage kid too, your grammar isn't the best either, mine isn't too hot as my fat fingers and autocorrect on this iPhone make me misspell words from time to time ? What is your connection to Thailand do you actually live here too? As I see you use this " we" word in quite a few topics as if your making a referral to actually having a legitimate say in Thai politics ? You know how you slagged off these 5 students the other day and keep going on about the future? You do realise that these students are more a part of Thai futures than you or I? And that one of them could very well be a future PM of the country one day? I take it that you don't know much about politics either especially when several UK PMs protested against establishments and governments when they were students in Universities too? Pretty sure Barak Obama himself attended various protests as have millions of other students across the globe. it seems to be the in thing at times. did you forget about the massive protests and the violence in the UK just a couple of years back after the cops shot a known bad guy? Did you forget about the violence at the G8 summit a few years back where thousands of students were pissed off? And the rent a mob anarchists thrown into the mix too? You made sarcy comments about not wanting or couldn't be bothered doing any research as the Internet was full of fiction and not facts, kind of sums up your attitude really as there have been some great articles written by professors and academics post the coup and about the coup, that is available online in various well known broadsheets and magazines. You don't respect other peoples opinions and that's why people just don't respect yours, you offer nothing to the discussion instead just make little innuendos. You will learn nothing by trolling, there's some outstanding posters here in TVF who I learn a great deal from and respect on both sides if the political divide, you simply have to listen to both sides of any debate even if you disagree with some. Start posting stuff of value and interest and people will take you seriously ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilsonandson Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timwin Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) Four pillars are needed for a functioning democracy. 1. Adequate law framework to protect individual's and company rights 2. Voting based political system and and functioning, relatively corrupt free executive branch (justice system/police) 3. Market economy. 4. Enough educated citizens. I think Thailand has 1 and 3. The laws are almost there (except too restricted foreign ownership rules) but the politicians, judges and cops are too biased towards the Bangkok elite and quite corrupted. When it comes to number 4, Thailand's literacy rate is 93.5 percent, which is at Mexico-Vietnam level. India for example only has 74.4 percent and China 95. Australia as a bad performer among western nations has 96. The education system in Thailand might be bad but I'd not say they are uneducated like for example in Africa or Middle East. The main problem obviously is the number 2. The political power is also too concentrated to Bangkok and favoring the city at the expense of the rest of the country. Edited November 22, 2014 by Timwin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilsonandson Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 TimWin I agree with you, thanks for your suggestions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benalibina Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I strongly suggest that they employ Comical Ali as the government spokesman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZurf Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Dictionary definition of the 'd' word: a ruler with total power over a country, typically one who has obtained control by force. Well 'Doo Dek' -> a child, if we dwell down to the alphabetics Well 'oo ek' > a child, if we well own to the alphabetics. . . . is acceptable. Wait an hour and I can't pronounce nor write anything with a letter ee That's because you, Sir, are an iiot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZurf Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 If it looks like a Duck and walks like a Duck............ No, no....if it looks like an uck and walks like an uck.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 If it looks like a Duck and walks like a Duck............ No, no....if it looks like an uck and walks like an uck.... I was hoping everyone was going to 'o this all the way through the thread. Would have been a classic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabis Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Wait an hour and I can't pronounce nor write anything with a letter ee That's because you, Sir, are an iiot! No it was because yester'ay was To'ay only the 'ay after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timwin Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) In a way it is good he said all of that. He unintentionally exposed the absurdity of the situation. It could force many Thais to think why the situation is so absurd and ironic. Why the political system is not working for them despite countless elections and countless parties. It is like the General has one angel and one demon talking on his shoulders at the same time. One sentence from the angel and then the next from the demon. "I am for democracy! But not yet! Arrest those students with 3 fingered salute! But treat them well! Send them to reeducation! Elections next year! Ban those protesting students from universities!" Edited November 22, 2014 by Timwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iReason Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) Off corse there is a problem here. I just wish the good General would come out and expose Thaksin and the police chiefs for exactly what they are and talk about the power, the anti-democratic power of these people. Talk about the corruption on a massive scale, how Thaksin can still get exactly what he wants out of this country simply by snapping his fingers; talk about how extremely wealthy foreign businessmen are stopped by the customs police and threatened until huge sums are handed over. Most of this stuff is not public, but it's there and the reason that the General is there too is to try and protect this country. He's probably not the best man for the job in terms of dictatorial toughness but he probably is a good soft, but temporary answer. The reason why many foreigners won't invest large sums here is because it is all so temporary. Thaksin and his like are awaiting in the wings. They haven't given up and they are b....dy dangerous. What next? I wish I had the answer. "I just wish the good General would come out and expose Thaksin and the police chiefs..." Incapable. He's cut from the same cloth. When are people going to realize that? Democracy then degenerates into tyranny where no one has discipline and society exists in chaos. Democracy is taken over by the longing for freedom. Power must be seized to maintain order A champion will come along and experience power, which will cause him to become a tyrant. The people will start to hate him and eventually try to remove him but will realize they are not able. The tyrannical man is the son of the democratic man. He is the worst form of man. Plato 380 BC. Look beyond these pathetic little men scurrying around just to line their pockets. Read your history. Edited November 22, 2014 by iReason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Warns that 'unfounded antagonism towards the government' will destabilise country might destabilize the 'government', but probably won't bother anyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Despot? 'ickhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Note to the PR people for the general . Please engage brain before putting mouth into gear! Clearly the three finger salute and the detention of the 5 students and their attitude adjustment session has backfired on the general and the junta. Get use to it general the press wants their freedom of speech back and the country wants their democracy back. He's not happy these days because he is now waking up to the fact that the 93% popularity polls are just propaganda fantasies and the more the junta crackdown the more criticism he's getting from both in and outside Thailand. Democracy mightn't be the best system general but it sure as he'll beats whatever runs second! " emocracy" is the general's d-word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabis Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Note to the PR people for the general . Please engage brain before putting mouth into gear! Clearly the three finger salute and the detention of the 5 students and their attitude adjustment session has backfired on the general and the junta. Get use to it general the press wants their freedom of speech back and the country wants their democracy back. He's not happy these days because he is now waking up to the fact that the 93% popularity polls are just propaganda fantasies and the more the junta crackdown the more criticism he's getting from both in and outside Thailand. Democracy mightn't be the best system general but it sure as he'll beats whatever runs second! " emocracy" is the general's d-word google search for 'emocracy emocracy 1: Rule by those who call themselves emo (Rule by emo kids) 2: Rule based on emotional influence (Rule by the emotional) Formed by the latin words. ex/out,outward + motio/movement,action,gesture. and the Greek word "kratia" which means "to rule" OMG! This school is turning into a emocracy! Source: Urban dictionary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvr181 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 "We are trying to get everyone involved in the reform process so that the outcome of our efforts can be enjoyed by all of us," he said. "The government is just a facilitator for all stakeholders to come together to address our common problems." I guess that rampant and blatant corruption among the authorities is NOT a problem then? Nothing seems to be done about "ripping off" tourists or the ordinary Thai citizen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaobang Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/21/democracy-rule-law-thailand-murders-britons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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