Thai students close to bottom of 14-country IT skills ranking

[khunpa]

And the solutions are...

- Chase all foreign companies out of Thailand.

- Make Thailand a developed country by 2025.

You got to give them credit for optimism and self-belief. Good luck!

However, I am sure they are in Top 3, when it comes to Hay Day and Candy Crush.

Edited November 22, 2014 by khunpa

[Thunder26]

The most important thing here is that Thais believe they are the smartest race on the planet

I know it sounds crazy, but many Thais are way too proud and think that they are extremely smart. So I agree with you.

[jabis]

I rarely post on here anymore because of the consistent Thai-bashing forum-wide. But I will now as it seems a little one-sided.

There are students in my school who have been learning code through the code.org website, as well as many other initiatives set up by some of the staff. Last year some students at our school won the first prize in a south-east Asian competition with an app they designed themselves. This is a government school. They were in M3.

With that being said, there are a huge number of students who haven't the first idea of even the basics of how computers work.

When I first meet the new M1s, I run through the basics, opening up a computer to give them an idea of what they're generally made up of. Some of them grasp the concepts right away, for many others it never really gets understood.

This isn't a solely Thai phenomenon, this happens all over the world.

The difference is that in the west, we are subjected to more advanced concepts from a much earlier age. We grow up in houses with central heating or air conditioning, watching television showing informative and educational TV alongside modern entertainment, we go to school and work in vehicles regulated by laws that ensure that we arrive safely, with closely monitored and governed driving standards to try to prevent anyone from causing a danger to others or themselves. We eat food that comes from producers who must follow strict guidelines of preparation and cleanliness. We have access to more free resources such as museums and libraries. I could go on forever.

What I'm saying is that it is easy to blame Thais for their position, but there are many people, the younger generation, who are making changes, who can see this disparity and are attempting to rectify it. Even if it's just their one homeroom class, for a few hours a week, it is a change for the better, and it's the beginning of a cultural evolution.

These things take time, and adopting advanced technological and cultural concepts from totally different cultures in completely different stages of social evolution is never going to create sucessful transient development in a country's society no matter which part of the world you're in. You need to allow a country to socially evolve in their own way, and while Thailand might still have a way to go in reaching the level of technological expertise as in other countries, it is also a country that is able to compete against the top countries in the world in other areas.

Don't just post crappy comments as a way to jump on the bandwagon and complain about Thailand for this and that. Yes, it is developing, not developed. Yes, they still have a way to go. Yes, there are people in power who have no clue as to what they are doing and how to do it. But this isn't the story in every school, in every province. It's not even limited to just the government schools.

In my opinion, it is limited to the schools controlled by teachers who are of the older generation, who have little interest in new technological developments, let alone teaching them; by the schools that are governed by a group of people whose only concern is their own personal development and retirement plan; by the schools who have poor budget controls and allow teachers to hedge funds for their own agendas; and, unfortunately, by the schools who have so few students that the budgets they receive from the government can have no effect on the education of these developing educational areas.

A well put post. I think we're on the same plane on many points, and I think you should post more often, to saturate the forum with some more good and well thought out posts

I do think the next generation, with access to a world full of data(though some gimmicks required to access it) will start to question the "old school" methods, and will dig out ways to improve the learning/teaching process of the whole country, but it takes the baby steps, to get walking. The evolving goes forward in generations, not years, thus any "reform" agendas imposed rarely give any true outcome, usually because of the short sightedness of the agendas, and the lack of follow-through and genuine innovation - same same is way too easy to go back to - and when preferred by the older generation, the critical thought is often suppressed, out of respect to the elder.

[retsdon]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The criminally atrocious education system in Thailand is a damning indictment of the country. Given the money that's 'spent' on education, Thailnd should be leading the stats inthese empirical tests. Instead, it consistently languishes at the bottom. - usually in the company of countries with a fraction of Thailand's resources. And why? Arrogance, laziness, and greed.

[krishnan]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Not sure about the education bit but if anyone tries to apply power to one of those cogs there will be an almighty mess.

the responsibility of the parents and schools together…

Most Thai kids have access to internet and have computers or mobile devices. They spend hours per day using them. Even the relative poor have fancier mobile devices than I have. The problem is that these machines are used for entertainment purposes only, which is like a new opiate for the masses. It's, in my opinion, the responsibility of the parents and schools together to not only use applications but also to create them. Even a simple spreadsheet with your school marks would do. Or a simple web blog with your holiday pictures. Activate those brain synapses you lazy rascals!

Do the test yourself. Show the picture below to a Thai student and ask him/her what they think about it.

Good Point Harry!! I was about to write something similar....like this will cause a jam..but..what if whoever did the picture is good in mechanics and was trying to convey, this system as shown wont work...you need to take one of the wheels out of the equation..probably the poor student??!!

[BudRight]

I rarely post on here anymore because of the consistent Thai-bashing forum-wide. But I will now as it seems a little one-sided.

There are students in my school who have been learning code through the code.org website, as well as many other initiatives set up by some of the staff. Last year some students at our school won the first prize in a south-east Asian competition with an app they designed themselves. This is a government school. They were in M3.

With that being said, there are a huge number of students who haven't the first idea of even the basics of how computers work.

When I first meet the new M1s, I run through the basics, opening up a computer to give them an idea of what they're generally made up of. Some of them grasp the concepts right away, for many others it never really gets understood.

This isn't a solely Thai phenomenon, this happens all over the world.

The difference is that in the west, we are subjected to more advanced concepts from a much earlier age. We grow up in houses with central heating or air conditioning, watching television showing informative and educational TV alongside modern entertainment, we go to school and work in vehicles regulated by laws that ensure that we arrive safely, with closely monitored and governed driving standards to try to prevent anyone from causing a danger to others or themselves. We eat food that comes from producers who must follow strict guidelines of preparation and cleanliness. We have access to more free resources such as museums and libraries. I could go on forever.

What I'm saying is that it is easy to blame Thais for their position, but there are many people, the younger generation, who are making changes, who can see this disparity and are attempting to rectify it. Even if it's just their one homeroom class, for a few hours a week, it is a change for the better, and it's the beginning of a cultural evolution.

These things take time, and adopting advanced technological and cultural concepts from totally different cultures in completely different stages of social evolution is never going to create sucessful transient development in a country's society no matter which part of the world you're in. You need to allow a country to socially evolve in their own way, and while Thailand might still have a way to go in reaching the level of technological expertise as in other countries, it is also a country that is able to compete against the top countries in the world in other areas.

Don't just post crappy comments as a way to jump on the bandwagon and complain about Thailand for this and that. Yes, it is developing, not developed. Yes, they still have a way to go. Yes, there are people in power who have no clue as to what they are doing and how to do it. But this isn't the story in every school, in every province. It's not even limited to just the government schools.

In my opinion, it is limited to the schools controlled by teachers who are of the older generation, who have little interest in new technological developments, let alone teaching them; by the schools that are governed by a group of people whose only concern is their own personal development and retirement plan; by the schools who have poor budget controls and allow teachers to hedge funds for their own agendas; and, unfortunately, by the schools who have so few students that the budgets they receive from the government can have no effect on the education of these developing educational areas.

Thailand is not a developing country. I'm not sure that term even means anything.

Thais are...like this...because they didn't have a Renaissance follower by The Enlightenment. Learning MSWord in the fourth grade isn't going to change that. They're not developing into anything. They're completely screwed and are going to stay that way forever.

[kurnell]

The most important thing here is that Thais believe they are the smartest race on the planet

I know it sounds crazy, but many Thais are way too proud and think that they are extremely smart. So I agree with you.

Always struggled to understand this. Normally when you make a claim you have facts to back it up. Facts seem to indicate locals don't have a scooby

[Chris Lawrence]

'He said this was evident in students from demonstration schools under university supervision in Thailand. Students from these schools, who often come from well-to-do families, earned 518 points in a separate category on individual types of schools compared with the 330 points scored by schools in urban areas.'

Students from the 'well-to-do-families' are potentially the life blood of the political elite. Maybe there is a method in keeping the masses under average?

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

My Thai students are at the top when it comes to playing Minecraft and Pointblank, something must be wrong with this ranking

[lvr181]

I'm shocked, I tell ya. Shocked.

Heck, in some Western countries, grade school kids are writing code.

On walls? And I thought that was graffiti.

Edit: Spelling

Edited November 22, 2014 by lvr181

[harrry]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Not sure about the education bit but if anyone tries to apply power to one of those cogs there will be an almighty mess.

the responsibility of the parents and schools together…

Most Thai kids have access to internet and have computers or mobile devices. They spend hours per day using them. Even the relative poor have fancier mobile devices than I have. The problem is that these machines are used for entertainment purposes only, which is like a new opiate for the masses. It's, in my opinion, the responsibility of the parents and schools together to not only use applications but also to create them. Even a simple spreadsheet with your school marks would do. Or a simple web blog with your holiday pictures. Activate those brain synapses you lazy rascals!

Do the test yourself. Show the picture below to a Thai student and ask him/her what they think about it.

Good Point Harry!! I was about to write something similar....like this will cause a jam..but..what if whoever did the picture is good in mechanics and was trying to convey, this system as shown wont work...you need to take one of the wheels out of the equation..probably the poor student??!!

Save a lot of trouble wouldn't it?

[Cake Monster]

The kids may lack IT skills, but would rank among the highest for singing Nationalistic songs, dancing, and making hats from cardboard,

All of these highly desirable skills are required by a forward thinking nation and businesses looking to increase the skill levels of their personel.

[attrayant]

Not sure about the education bit but if anyone tries to apply power to one of those cogs there will be an almighty mess.

Good Point Harry!! I was about to write something similar....like this will cause a jam..but..what if whoever did the picture is good in mechanics and was trying to convey, this system as shown wont work...you need to take one of the wheels out of the equation..probably the poor student??!!

No no - you folks and your two-dimensional thinking. You need to raise one of the gears along the Z axis so that it's much higher than the others. Obviously the parents must be higher than the students and teachers. Edited November 23, 2014 by attrayant

[selftaopath]

The problem today is the result of traditional Thai nationalism, which has proudly kept the country separate from the rest of the world while at the same time convincing its people that Thailand is the finest nation in the world.

This worked fine for centuries, but in recent years Thailand has dug an increasingly deeper trench for itself.

As global boundaries began to break down (ease of international travel, foreign TV programs, access to movies from America, smartphones, national and international social media etc) so the nationalist hardliners entrenched themselves and attempted to resist these influences even more strongly. The bottom line is that the ruling classes have done all they can to resist foreign influence and keep Thailand aloof.

At the same time their educational policy was to keep the bulk of their people uninformed and passive. A curriculum diet which ignored world history and events and concentrated only on the Thai nation and its glories, and a system of learning in which the teacher was forbidden to be challenged or questioned and subjects were learned by rote. The 60 million peasants were unimportant, other than as a compliant labour force - the ruling classes continued to sharpen their children's intellect and world-awareness by having them educated in the best foreign schools and universities.

There were deliberately no elements of investigation or problem solving in the peasant's education - the intention was to dampen the child's natural curiosity. And so also all aspects of self-expression were effectively killed at the source - no asking WHY? or HOW? or WHAT FOR? No creative writing, no picture making, no making up music or songs, no expressive dance, no creating poems and no learning foreign languages . . . just endless copying of temple designs and memorising ancient Thai legends and traditional dances. In the first 10 years of their lives every normal happy Thai child had their creativity and the curiosity deliberately suffocated for ever.

And of course it's no surprise that the result is a nation of semi-educated, semi-literate beings who are trained to never question authority, wait to be told what to do and how to do it, and are not capable of showing initiative or able to solve day-today problems. Totally terrific for the nation's top 4% - right up until the world came a-knocking at Thailand's door.

Politically and economically the ruling classes and their politicians now find themselves in a cleft stick. On the one hand an upsurge in technology means that Thailand needs engineers, scientist and technologists. But it has now made itself incapable of training its own nation to produce these. So it needs "foreign investment" to provide the expertise.

But the nation also detests the idea of giving foreigners any kind of a foothold, so it maintains policies restricting foreign residency, land ownership, tax concessions, money transfer etc etc etc but still desperately needs foreign investment to continue . . .

Suddenly - and without warning - Thailand is no longer the happy little nation with a big wall around it like it used to be. Suddenly, the effective rulers of the Thai nation are seeing their country being dragged out into the very uncomfortable world outside. The ASEAN community is sitting on Thailand's neck. Foreigners are comparing Thailand's achievements and abilities with PowerPoint presentations indicating that Thais are under-educated ineffective workers and unable to compete, and showing that Thais come towards the bottom of all achievement scales.

To which we reply - yes, how very unfortunate. But, really, what do you expect when you've spent the last 300 years carefully training your people to be semi-educated, semi-literate, compliant, docile and utterly unable to assert themselves or take any kind of initiative? It now needs a complete readjustment of your national self-image, and all the new attitudes and policies that go with it, if you want the world today to acknowledge and accept your usefulness and show you the respect you seem to expect.

THANK You. Your message/understanding ought to be taught and distributed world wide - seriously. Possibly then the Thai citizenry would have a slim chance of learning, and moving forward while quality of life accompanies them.

Keoki

[attrayant]

The Thai government and school administrators have both stated that the critical thinking method of teaching should be used.

But, those studying to become teachers in Thai universities are still instructed in the rote method to teach the rote method.

The gradate from the university prepared to only teach the rote method.

This phrase "The[y] gradate from the university prepared..." In my opinion, the freshly-graduated are not prepared at all.

In my three years here, I've noticed the that teachers are so young. Most Thai teachers I've met appear to be in their early to mid twenties. If it weren't for the school blazer, it would be difficult to tell them apart from the students. How can a 25 year old teacher have any kind of practical experience to pass along to their students? All of my teachers were middle-aged at the youngest and had years of professional experience under their belts.

To put it another way, a law graduate should spend at least a decade working as a lawyer before he considers becoming a law professor. An EE graduate should have 8 or 10 years of electrical design work or bench repair experience before thinking about becoming a technology teacher. A software grad should spend some years developing and debugging code before any school hires her to teach programming languages. English teachers should have some kind of relevant experience, perhaps as an editor, published writer or journalist before being considered qualified to teach grammar and composition (at least at the advanced English levels. During a child's formative years, exposure to any native speaker is sufficient to get him a good running-start into more advanced language and literature studies).

But not so here. It seems the pretty/handsome young graduate will get the job over a 50-something professional with years of relevant experience.

Edited November 23, 2014 by attrayant

[MexicanFarang]

"It seems the pretty/handsome young graduate will get the job over a 50-something professional with years of relevant experience."

Is age discrimination legal?

I remember, just for grins, looking at job postings in Asia in my profession (I think Taiwan).

They actually put in the ad, "Must be under 30".

Edited November 23, 2014 by MexicanFarang

[harrry]

Not sure about the education bit but if anyone tries to apply power to one of those cogs there will be an almighty mess.

Good Point Harry!! I was about to write something similar....like this will cause a jam..but..what if whoever did the picture is good in mechanics and was trying to convey, this system as shown wont work...you need to take one of the wheels out of the equation..probably the poor student??!!

No no - you folks and your two-dimensional thinking. You need to raise one of the gears along the Z axis so that it's much higher than the others. Obviously the parents must be higher than the students and teachers.

Then we would still have everyone else just running round in circles endlessly.....

[Nickymaster]

The results of "real" democracy?

[green job]

"Turkey is for Christmas"

I always find it amusing when European countries have "traditions" based on eating food from Mexico, 555

I would never ever buy a turkey that has been based in Mexico Ask Gorden Ramsey about basting Turkeys Do you have a lot of goblers in Mexico??

[krishnan]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Not sure about the education bit but if anyone tries to apply power to one of those cogs there will be an almighty mess.

Good Point Harry!! I was about to write something similar....like this will cause a jam..but..what if whoever did the picture is good in mechanics and was trying to convey, this system as shown wont work...you need to take one of the wheels out of the equation..probably the poor student??!!

No no - you folks and your two-dimensional thinking. You need to raise one of the gears along the Z axis so that it's much higher than the others. Obviously the parents must be higher than the students and teachers.

Mmmmmm...think again. Raise only one??? It works??

[PaullyW]

Seems they are fairly close to the bottom in many rankings including English as a second language, critical thinking, history, geography, others.

But the most interesting part is that upper middle and upper class equivalent kids who college, or in some cases from high school, are still quite incapable of critical thinking when they return to Thailand. I wonder if there is some ideal age range to learn critical thinking skills.

[soalbundy]

Seems they are fairly close to the bottom in many rankings including English as a second language, critical thinking, history, geography, others.

But the most interesting part is that upper middle and upper class equivalent kids who college, or in some cases from high school, are still quite incapable of critical thinking when they return to Thailand. I wonder if there is some ideal age range to learn critical thinking skills.

and yet they survive, in many ways better than we do.

[DM07]

Seems they are fairly close to the bottom in many rankings including English as a second language, critical thinking, history, geography, others.

But the most interesting part is that upper middle and upper class equivalent kids who college, or in some cases from high school, are still quite incapable of critical thinking when they return to Thailand. I wonder if there is some ideal age range to learn critical thinking skills.

and yet they survive, in many ways better than we do.

Because they were sheltered and protected for decades.

Those times are coming to an end...and now it turns out, that protectionism isn't the best way to go!

[A1Str8]

Who would have thought.

[outlaw11wa]

While I find this an interesting subject the results are no doubt a consequence of the demographic and the culture, I also find it disappointing to read so many negative posts. Surely if the posters here find the need to verbally beat up on Thai culture so profusely they should find a country they are more comfortable associating with? Every country has issues generated by their history and culture. Thailand has so much that draws people here because of this culture. Things they cannot experience anywhere else in the world. Many of those here may be resident in areas and demographic where they assume the technologies spoken about here are available to all. Bangkok accounts for 6+ million people in a population of 67million - barely 10% . I could believe the majority of Expats that love Thailand for Thailand's sake probably live beyond the boundaries of Bangkok, Pattaya and Phuket and possibly have a very different response to those posted here. Sorry if my thought here don't fit with the theme here but for me Thailand is one of the most positive directions I have taken in my life. Here life is about living and enjoying life while not being insulated in cotton wool by over regulation and doomsday prophets of the west. Chill out guys - its a great place if you let it be.

Edited November 26, 2014 by outlaw11wa

[Jim walker]

After my parents have donated all that money to my university and I am still stupid must be something wrong here, we always paid our bribes on time

[PaullyW]

Seems they are fairly close to the bottom in many rankings including English as a second language, critical thinking, history, geography, others.

But the most interesting part is that upper middle and upper class equivalent kids who college, or in some cases from high school, are still quite incapable of critical thinking when they return to Thailand. I wonder if there is some ideal age range to learn critical thinking skills.

and yet they survive, in many ways better than we do.

OK, as long as you don't include me in "we".

[soalbundy]

Seems they are fairly close to the bottom in many rankings including English as a second language, critical thinking, history, geography, others.

But the most interesting part is that upper middle and upper class equivalent kids who college, or in some cases from high school, are still quite incapable of critical thinking when they return to Thailand. I wonder if there is some ideal age range to learn critical thinking skills.

and yet they survive, in many ways better than we do.

OK, as long as you don't include me in "we".

I was referring to the general sense of well being between the populations of farang land and Thailand, not material wealth. They usually get their 4 score years and ten in with less effort,make do with less,and have a happy go lucky attitude to life with fewer stomach ulcers i should imagine.

[PaullyW]

Seems they are fairly close to the bottom in many rankings including English as a second language, critical thinking, history, geography, others.

But the most interesting part is that upper middle and upper class equivalent kids who college, or in some cases from high school, are still quite incapable of critical thinking when they return to Thailand. I wonder if there is some ideal age range to learn critical thinking skills.

and yet they survive, in many ways better than we do.

OK, as long as you don't include me in "we".

I was referring to the general sense of well being between the populations of farang land and Thailand, not material wealth. They usually get their 4 score years and ten in with less effort,make do with less,and have a happy go lucky attitude to life with fewer stomach ulcers i should imagine.

I can agree with that. Some might say ignorance is bliss. Surely human progress and evolution comes at the cost of much struggle and sacrifice. The Thai nonchalant way of life does have its appeal, but I must say I would rather live 10 stomach ulcer lifetimes making true progress and contributing more to humanity than to live 2 lazy Thai lifetimes where I make very little larger contribution. It is far better to have been born something other than a Thai (Japanese, Chinese, European, North American, etc.) and live in Thailand in adult years than to have been born an average Thai in Thailand. I suspect most would feel the same. There is a certain advantage that we are afforded by virtue of not being Thai.

[FrankOff]

The most important thing here is that Thais believe they are the smartest race on the planet

Do they ever wonder why everything they have that is "modern" was developed by someone else?

From where do they think the whole idea of a telephone much less a cell phone or smartphone came from? How about their computer? Don't they stop to think (oops, my bad) about why they didn't invent the airplane or the jet engine or avionics?

When I was young my culture taught me to aspire to be like the people who did these things. My culture taught me to dig into things and learn how they worked. The tools were there for me to learn.

I give up.

.....and then you ended up in Thailand(?) ...