Koh Tao murders: Burmese legal, forensics teams arrive

[smellthecoffee]

The Thais did it. Wild stab in the dark there.

[CharlieH]

A post using RED font has been removed. Please use black standard as per the forum Netiquette. Thank you.

[Si Thea01]

Good to read this.

Without the social media - us - the books would habe been closed long ago. The B2 would have been convicted and we would find just a small article that the case was solved and the culprits got their punishment

For the Thai police it must feel like waking up from a dream and finding themselves in reality

imho social media has accomplish little in this case.

I am hoping that this goes to trial, so we can get some idea of the actual evidence.

After reading some of your previous posts, not only on this matter but others, I was starting to wonder but I am with you on this post. It just goes to show you are not one eyed and can think logically, something many of the armchair detectives here of TVF cannot do.

Theres a lot more to this case than meets the eye. A fair trial cannot be guaranteed, wanting to see evidence for your own pleasure is one thing, wanting justice is another.

Please see the below post, I do not claim credit for it, it was written by Bleacher Bum East but he has given permission for it to be copied and gives some good insight about the take it to trial warriors

I have a few questions for everyone who recites the "wait for the trial" mantra.

1. Is it important to you that justice be completely assured and public safety be completely ensured by the arrest and conviction of everyone involved in Hannah's rape and murder and David's murder?

2. Based on all of the evidence available to the public (including but not limited to the police statements shortly after the forensic autopsy that they believed that more than two attackers where involved in the crime, and the chief of forensics statement that they believed David fought with his attackers) . . . Do you believe there is a decent possibility that more than two people were involved in the crimes---or even a slim possibility?

3. If it is important to you that justice be completely assured and public safety be completely ensured, and you believe that there is even a slim chance that at least one perpetrator is still on the loose, given the horrific nature of the crimes, do you believe the police investigators should still be looking intently for one or more other perpetrators?

4. If you do believe the police should be looking for one or more other perpetrators, then if you were the lead investigator, what primary steps would you be taking right now---that to the public's knowledge the police have not yet taken---to find the other perpetrator(s)?

If your answer to question #1 is yes, then I would challenge you to answer directly questions #2, #3 and #4.

Of course there is more to this crime than meets they eye. I have never denied this and on occasions I have been critical of the way police have carried out their investigation. I, for one, am not wanting to know what the evidence is for my own pleasure. It is in hope that those now being held, if sent to trial, will be dealt with judicially and without prejudice and that justice is not only done but be seen to be done. Why have you made a statement that has no basis? How do you know a fair trial cannot be guaranteed? A judge has to base his findings on the evidence presented, not in the way that many TVF posters judge this matter. So, writing as you have, you are suggesting that a judge may act illegally, thus preventing those before him from receiving a fair trial. A serious allegation.

There are many on here who continually decry the police and base their opinions of the innocence of the offenders through what has been written in the media and often stated by police. This is not evidence and to judge one way or another through either hearsay, assumptions and speculation is not justice for either side. I can run that way to but having been in law enforcement for 30 years I would never allow myself to be the judge and jury of anyone nor will I become part of a trial by media.

I am not a conspiracy theorist and believe that the judicial system gives those that appear before it a fair hearing. At this time, I do not know if they are guilty or innocent, as I do not have access to the evidence obtained. However, if the prosecutor had to return the brief to police because of inadequacies and there was some ludicrous statements attributed to police, then yes we can say that the investigation leaves a lot to be desired. But it does not prove their innocence or guilt.

Shame that you have to rely on someone else to bring rhetorical questions into the discussion. I might be dumb but what is meant by the first part of the first question? Assured means confident, and is used out of context, so if you want to ask someone something, please do so in a manner that makes sense. I'll answer the next section. No one can guarantee public safety despite what might be asserted.

As for the rest, they are rhetorical so why do you need an answer? The last question is hypothetical because it would never occur therefore, one cannot answer. As I previously stated, having been in law enforcement for 30 years, and on many occasions, as a lead investigator, I, unlike the police involved, would never discuss the case as they have, nor would I answer the question you have put forward in an open forum. The police have broadcast their intentions, which should never be done in case you forewarn those involved or others who may be or are yet to be detected. Gives a suspect an opportunity to establish an alibi.

[spidermike007]

Good to read this.

Without the social media - us - the books would habe been closed long ago. The B2 would have been convicted and we would find just a small article that the case was solved and the culprits got their punishment

For the Thai police it must feel like waking up from a dream and finding themselves in reality

imho social media has accomplish little in this case.

I am hoping that this goes to trial, so we can get some idea of the actual evidence.

sweatalot is 100% correct.

Social media has done a hell of a lot to keep this case in the public domain and given worldwide attention to the absolute calamity that is the Thai justice system.

Without this spotlight that would not go away it has made the usual Thai cover up and scapegoating very difficult.

This visit would never be happeing if it wasn't for the attention gained from places like this very thread. It is very very hard to commit for the likes of the public prosecutor to send this to court when he knows the whole world is watching him. Without that, this would already be in court on the fudged up so called evidence the police put forward.

The prosecutor does not want this pushed on him from the police because he knows it is based on lies and corruption. I know it, they know it, YOU know it, the Brits know it, the Burmese government knows it and the whole world knows it.

As much as you want to live in blissful ignorance in your huge hole you have dug yourself over the months.... There will be NO trial, because the r is NO evidence.

This is looking more like a political storm in the making. I will bet a pound to a penny that Prayuth doesn't fancy a scrap with Myanmar on this. The Myanmar government seem to be putting their foot down on this issue, now watch the Thais capitulate.

Such amazing worldwide attention that business on the island is up, according to the Guardian

I do not believe that for a nanosecond. According to my sources it is as dead as it has ever been, low season aside. I, and dozens of others have decide to boycott that crime and drug infested island for life. I will never go back. I would not allow one baht of my money to support the five piglet families over there, much less the family of Nomsod the Terrible. I doing the Guardian sources are reliable, and it sounds like sensationalistic news to me. Now, if they want to print some real news, how about an investigative piece on the real killer, how compromised the Thai police are, the political agendas at stake, or the untouchability of any family worth over $50,000,000US, in the LOS?

Edited November 27, 2014 by spidermike007

[thailandchilli]

Si Thea01 #63

Thank you for your reply, actually it was not intended for you, my mistake in the quote and not making that clear, it was intended for jdinasia who did reply as I knew he would in his usual manner and had ignored it completely when it was posed to him by the author despite stating that he had replied to it.

However you've taken the time to give a well thought out and balanced opinion and I appreciate you doing so, thank you.

I agree with you on many of the points you made and I see the only topic of debate to be the case for taking this to trial and the trust of the Thai Judicial system to do that fairly. In my opinion this is where the case is completely flawed.

Evidence brought before the court is sketchy to say the least, confirmed by the prosecutors. The evidence they do have of the DNA should not be used and in any court in the world would be deemed as inadmissible because of the crime scene invasion by people who should not have been there and had the opportunity to attempt to destroy or tamper with evidence. If the judge allows this DNA to be used as evidence and as a result convicts the 2 suspects then the international outcry will not stop. Yes the Thai Judicial system has done its job, but only in Thailand, not in the eyes of the world. The uncertainties about the current suspects being used as scapegoats will continue and the potential that the real killers are still out there will continue.

Unless the prosecution has other crucial evidence which they have currently admitted they do not then this would make a conviction of guilt extremely suspicious.

Yes the RTP have made conflicting and completely unprofessional statements and its hard to 'cherry pick' without being biased which may be true and which are not, more weight to the fact that if you can't trust the police in their statements how can you trust the evidence they produce. Some of the statements of course become redundant as the investigation moves on but one of their more revealing statements just 8 days into the investigation was an admission by the leading investigator that local Thais had been attempting to destroy evidence and had given false info in order to protect the real killers. I do not think that evidence would have been tampered with or false information given to protect the current suspects. Also what was the evidence they had attempted to destroy, one can only speculate but DNA is a possibility.

However things have now moved on again, bail has been refused and it looks like this will go to trial. I wish I had your confidence in the Thai Judicial system, but I do not, nor does the UK or Burmese governments and a host of International Human rights organisations

Edited November 27, 2014 by thailandchilli

[Anon999]

i havent read ANYTHING yet about the English bobbies "research"

Were they here on a Holiday or what ???

Read an earlier post!

[zoza]

I would like to see some support from the German community, especially those in Samui, for their compatriot who was killed in Chaweng a few months ago. It was reported in local news that five young Thai men had been arrested but I believe no Court charges have been laid at this stage. I suspect they may be released in the next few weeks.

from what I've read the five young men were due to be released about a week ago.

even though they had cc tv footage of them at the murder scene.

they also had the weapon that they say was used to kill the German.

they also had a confession (not retracted ) by the jealous ex- boyfriend.

You are mixing the two threads.

Look at this thread for some facts. (The suspects were not released.)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/777033-suspects-in-the-murder-of-a-46-year-old-german-man-in-samui-could-walk-free-on-tuesday/page-6

or this one

http://www.samuitimes.com/samui-prosecutor-gives-police-one-month-make-case-suspects-murdered-german/

er I was answering cracker1's post about the German who was killed and they were going

to release the five lads on November the 17th despite all the evidence.

I then got back on topic with my post on the koh tao murder's

I didn't think it was confusing and even got a few "likes" ?

cheers zoza.