Alternative Retirement Destination?

[moonseeker]

I hope the mods will leave this up, so I can get some feedback from some of the more seasoned travelers on TV.

After 20 yrs. in Thailand I am looking for a second place to establish myself for at least half of the year. I own home & property here in Thailand, so the cost here during absence is not huge. I do have prime health insurance, so this is not a concern. I speak several languages incl. E., German, Portuguese, some French, Italian and Spanish etc.

Looking for: Affordable cost of daily life & real-estate. I have a budget of 8'000$ a month, but am a conservative spender, so prefer to save some of this. I would like to buy or build my own house on or near the beach, I am willing to spend up to 400 K.$ on this.

My dream is an exotic destination / Caribbean-style, can be third world, if safety is acceptable. I need a clean beach/sea for fishing & diving & water-sports. I need reasonable shopping & healthcare options. I need reasonably fast internet, as I am a freak. I would love to keep dogs and possibly other animals, so will for the first time in my life hire some staff to help me out, especially when gone. I have been looking @ , Borneo, Nicaragua, parts of Panama, Belize etc.

I would very much appreciate some pointers, so I know where to fly to first to explore begin of next year. I know there is people on this forum with much more experience than myself. Thank you kindly. MS>

[craigt3365]

Great topic. I'm not exactly in the same situation, but somewhat similar. Potentially looking around for part time alternatives to Thailand.

One thing that would be interesting is to tell us where you've traveled and perhaps some places you've already ruled out?

I've been to the countries you mention, Borneo, Nicaragua, Panama, and Belize. I spent about 2 weeks cruising around Malaysian Borneo. Quite interesting, good diving, some very nice beaches. This was about 5 years ago, so things may have changed. It was OK. Not as much religious influence there as on the mainland, but still quite noticeable. Great place to visit, but not sure I'd want to live there. I'd take somewhere in the south of Thailand first over Malaysia. Which is something you might consider. We really like some of the beaches down south, somewhat like going back 20 or 30 years. Peaceful and quiet, but still near shopping and other facilities.

Nicaragua is also fun to visit, but due to the crime, not a great place to live. I think it's the Corn islands that get a lot of attention, but not sure it'd be a good place to live long term. Of course the same can be said of most of Central and South America. Belize is really bad. There is one Island I've read about that seems interesting. Ambergris Caye. Quite a few expats there, with fairly high prices. They get hit pretty bad in the hurricane season. Real bad at times. But from what I've read, a tropical paradise. Belize city is not good at all. I rented a car there and drove out to the Mayan ruins for a few days. Great fun. But only as a holiday.

Panama was OK. We spent 3-4 weeks there cruising around. It was OK, but not enough for us to want to live there. Better than the others you mention, but still have high crime rates, poor infrastructure, and I found the food not as interesting. Huge Chinese influence there due to workers that came over to build the canal and stayed on. We liked Bocas del Toro. Beautiful island, with great diving and beaches. But also lots of mangrove swamps and a really small community. Might get island fever!

In terms of price, Nicaragua is very cheap. Borneo is pretty good. Panama is relatively affordable. I think Ambergris Caye would be in the high end. I bet you could get a beautiful place right on the beach. But very small community.

Some other options, especially if you speak Portuguese, is the NE part of Brazil. From what I've heard, stunning beaches. Crime is still an issue, but reasonable. I love the music there!

I've been to most of the Caribbean islands. Love them. Talk about a tropical paradise. I miss the music, seafood and steel drums! Hurricane season is tough. But it's paradise.

[moonseeker]

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Great topic. I'm not exactly in the same situation, but somewhat similar. Potentially looking around for part time alternatives to Thailand.

One thing that would be interesting is to tell us where you've traveled and perhaps some places you've already ruled out?

I've been to the countries you mention, Borneo, Nicaragua, Panama, and Belize. I spent about 2 weeks cruising around Malaysian Borneo. Quite interesting, good diving, some very nice beaches. This was about 5 years ago, so things may have changed. It was OK. Not as much religious influence there as on the mainland, but still quite noticeable. Great place to visit, but not sure I'd want to live there. I'd take somewhere in the south of Thailand first over Malaysia. Which is something you might consider. We really like some of the beaches down south, somewhat like going back 20 or 30 years. Peaceful and quiet, but still near shopping and other facilities.

Nicaragua is also fun to visit, but due to the crime, not a great place to live. I think it's the Corn islands that get a lot of attention, but not sure it'd be a good place to live long term. Of course the same can be said of most of Central and South America. Belize is really bad. There is one Island I've read about that seems interesting. Ambergris Caye. Quite a few expats there, with fairly high prices. They get hit pretty bad in the hurricane season. Real bad at times. But from what I've read, a tropical paradise. Belize city is not good at all. I rented a car there and drove out to the Mayan ruins for a few days. Great fun. But only as a holiday.

Panama was OK. We spent 3-4 weeks there cruising around. It was OK, but not enough for us to want to live there. Better than the others you mention, but still have high crime rates, poor infrastructure, and I found the food not as interesting. Huge Chinese influence there due to workers that came over to build the canal and stayed on. We liked Bocas del Toro. Beautiful island, with great diving and beaches. But also lots of mangrove swamps and a really small community. Might get island fever!

In terms of price, Nicaragua is very cheap. Borneo is pretty good. Panama is relatively affordable. I think Ambergris Caye would be in the high end. I bet you could get a beautiful place right on the beach. But very small community.

Some other options, especially if you speak Portuguese, is the NE part of Brazil. From what I've heard, stunning beaches. Crime is still an issue, but reasonable. I love the music there!

I've been to most of the Caribbean islands. Love them. Talk about a tropical paradise. I miss the music, seafood and steel drums! Hurricane season is tough. But it's paradise.

Thank you very much for writing in such detail. I have been living here in Thailand (Samui & Pattaya) far too long and feel I need to make a move before

I am too old & tired. I feel Thailand does not offer me enough anymore. There must be better options.

I used to live in NE Brazil (Recife/Fortalezza for 5 yrs. up to 1997) I still miss the culture, but it is way too expensive now and crime is even worse than it has been back then.

I have also lived in and enjoyed FL & the keys (mostly on a trawler yacht & Ft. Lauderdale & Ft. Myers area). Unfortunately immigration / tax policies these days make it impossible for me to live in the USA full-time, but still considering part-time.

Yes, I like down South much better than Pattaya, friendlier people, nicer beaches.

I am looking at Puerto Vallarta, but have almost ZERO Mexican experience. I will sail a yacht to Borneo (from Phuket) next March and check out the Kotakinabalu area and further away. I just checked out Langkawi, but was very disappointed overall. Caribbean kind of sounds like paradise, but probably too expensive. I don't mind living in a tourist town, I like a holiday atmosphere. I would really love to have my own large home with gardens and animals and a clear sea full of fish :-). Let us see who else comes up with some great ideas and start working on our departure. Fort the moment: A nice Sunday to everybody & THX. again. MS>

[craigt3365]

Interesting you mention PV. We really liked it there. A bit touristy, especially when the big cruise ships come in, but a neat town. We also liked the Ixtapa/Zia area as it's more tropical, the water is warmer and it doesn't get as cold as PV and points north. Some friends spend the winters somewhere south of Cancun and just love it. There's also a very large and active expat community in the lake Chapala area. Never been, but seem to have everything setup for expats.

With Portuguese, you should be able to pick up Spanish easily! 55555

I've only spent a few weeks in Brazil, but member Naam spent a lot of time there and loved it. Not sure where, but it was up in the mountains. He backed off on his plans after the currency started to rise. Made things too expensive there. I was in Rio, the crime is insane there.

With 8k USD a month to play with, you should be able to afford it! 55555

[NeverSure]

Speaking of Naam, in a thread at least a year ago, someone asked where would be the best place in the world to live. Naam posted simply "The United States of America."

He had owned a home in Florida but ran into problems getting permanent residency. You could ask him what that was. I do know you can buy a home when only on a tourist visa, so you might check out what it would then take to get regular tourist visas.

The US is frankly cheaper to live in than Thailand. Shocker maybe, but so many things are so heavily taxed in LOS that about the only things that are cheaper in LOS are some utilities, Thai food, and housing. But I think that is offset by other very expensive things in LOS. Any consumer good including a car, Western food, even gasoline can be sky high in LOS.

I wouldn't write it off without some research.

I tire of third world countries with dodgy water, electricity, internet, and roads and rule of law etc. I could never permanently move to Thailand even though I like to visit.

I'm not comfortable in Mexico or Central and South America except maybe Ecuador. They did have a good visa program but I'm not current on that.

[Jingthing]

Forget Ecuador for the part time living idea. Their visa program is not designed for that. Retire there or not.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Jingthing

[moonseeker]

Wow, this turns out to become very informative and interesting with some of the best TV members answering. Thank you. I will definitely look into the areas mentioned in Mexico.

I do not write of FL, as it is a great sun & fun place and real-estate is mostly very affordable, as is cost of living and all is at a high standard. Unfortunately the USA makes us foreigners liable for full tax on our world wide assets, if we stay longer than 183 a year and they still don't offer any reasonable straightforward retirement visa-program. Something that has been pushed by many politicians or TV personalities, as it would bring in tons of cash and good retirees, if formulated properly.

Yes, Brasil is just too expensive and crime is worse than ever. Not just in Rio. Talking crime I am not referring to tourist areas, but to areas where one would live, conduct business, just live locally. Actually I felt quite safe in the tourist & "rich" areas in Rio, as they are well protected by MP. A scheme the Thais could easily copy in high risk tourist areas. THX. MS>

[jpinx]

We had this topic about a year ago and I wrote up about a lot of countries I have actually lived in, not just had a few weeks. It'd be worth looking that up but the information gets more out-of-date as the years roll by. I'll see if I can find it,,,,,,

Here ya go ...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/347262-alternative-retirement-destinations-for-expats-other-than-thailand/page-1

Edited November 30, 2014 by jpinx

[Anthony5]

Taking in account the monthly budget you have and the languages you speak, only 1 country would come up in my mind, and that is Portugal.

Very friendly population, good deals to be done on real estate currently, clean beaches and oceans and favorable weather at least 6 months a year at the time that the weather is less favorable in Thailand.

[jpinx]

Forget Ecuador for the part time living idea. Their visa program is not designed for that. Retire there or not.

There's nothing to stop you "retiring" to Ecuador and spending your "holidays" in Thailand

[Jingthing]

Forget Ecuador for the part time living idea. Their visa program is not designed for that. Retire there or not.

There's nothing to stop you "retiring" to Ecuador and spending your "holidays" in Thailand

The rules for their retirement residency establishment involve being there most of the time.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jpinx]

Forget Ecuador for the part time living idea. Their visa program is not designed for that. Retire there or not.

There's nothing to stop you "retiring" to Ecuador and spending your "holidays" in Thailand

The rules for their retirement residency establishment involve being there most of the time.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Ecuador seems to be trying to attract USians for retirement, but they'd need to allow trips out. Makes retirement visa a bit of a misnomer -- should be imprisonment visa

[Jingthing]

They allow trips out but its limited during the establishment of status period. So it would be a major personal investment to get set up there. Really you need some legal status there as well for practical reasons like bank accounts.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[craigt3365]

We had this topic about a year ago and I wrote up about a lot of countries I have actually lived in, not just had a few weeks. It'd be worth looking that up but the information gets more out-of-date as the years roll by. I'll see if I can find it,,,,,,

Here ya go ...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/347262-alternative-retirement-destinations-for-expats-other-than-thailand/page-1

For some reason, I searched for that thread and couldn't find it! Thanks for sharing it. I think there is some very good info posted there. I would have just closed this topic and linked to that one, but thought it was time for some updated info....and the OPs requirements seem to be a bit different. Anyway....thanks!!!

[craigt3365]

Excellent point about the US. Being from the US, it has a certain appeal. And as you mention, the infrastructure is way better. Shopping opportunities are almost too much. And many things are cheaper there. And better value.

Florida has some beautiful beaches, as does neighboring Alabama. I've got a friend who just moved to Naples. He sends pics to me of the beaches all the time. Perfectly white, crystal blue sea, no trash, no water pollution. Great restaurants (not cheap, but if you look at the quality, probably a better value than here). Etc.

It's an option for me, but I also like the a foreign location. Something different. But yes, dealing with the issues of living in a developing country get a bit tiresome after a few years.

Interesting comment on Portugal. It's a wonderful country. A bit quiet in the winter months. The southern beaches become pretty much deserted and towns close up shop. But what great wine! Love vino verde.

[Naam]

Speaking of Naam, in a thread at least a year ago, someone asked where would be the best place in the world to live. Naam posted simply "The United States of America."

He had owned a home in Florida but ran into problems getting permanent residency. You could ask him what that was. I do know you can buy a home when only on a tourist visa, so you might check out what it would then take to get regular tourist visas.

The US is frankly cheaper to live in than Thailand. Shocker maybe, but so many things are so heavily taxed in LOS that about the only things that are cheaper in LOS are some utilities, Thai food, and housing. But I think that is offset by other very expensive things in LOS. Any consumer good including a car, Western food, even gasoline can be sky high in LOS.

I wouldn't write it off without some research.

I tire of third world countries with dodgy water, electricity, internet, and roads and rule of law etc. I could never permanently move to Thailand even though I like to visit.

I'm not comfortable in Mexico or Central and South America except maybe Ecuador. They did have a good visa program but I'm not current on that.

NeverSure is correct! however, it was not a problem to get permanent residency but the restrictions placed on us foreigners (who had valid 10-year visas) after the sept11 terror attack. these 10-y visas where subject to a maximum stay of 6 months at a stretch, a restriction which did not bother us at all because we spent some months in our German home and of course did quite some travelling.

two years after sept11 the validity of our driver's licences were reduced to six months respectively months spent, id est whenever we reentered the states we had to apply for a new DL. in the meantime the insurance for our cars was automatically canceled and had to be applied again presenting the new licenses. these were rather small problems which could have been solved with the help of American friends... but

immigration started to act "strange" with questions such as "who are you, what are you and why are you?" (i exaggerate a bit )

carrying our income tax returns with us when travelling did not count... "we are the INS and not the IRS!" in december 2003 my wife flew to London to attend some sort of class reunion with colleagues who attended the same university. sobbing she called me from Atlanta that she missed her connecting flight to Orlando because she was held for 2 hours at immigration. when asked "what is the purpose of your visit" she answered "we are a retired couple and own since more than a decade a home in Florida where we spend 6-8 months a year." the answer was "owning a home in Florida is not valid reason to enter the Yewnighted States!"

three months later our home and the two homes i built for two German friends were sold.

Speaking of Naam, in a thread at least a year ago, someone asked where would be the best place in the world to live. Naam posted simply "The United States of America."

this is correct. we would have never left the States if the situation (as described above) had not changed. and if i'd tell my wife today "i've found a way to live undisturbed in the Greatest Nation on Earth" she'd be busy tomorrow morning to call real estate agents and moving companies in Thailand and google for homes for sale in the U.S. (one in Central Florida and one in West Virginia).

[mogandave]

San Diego

[thailiketoo]

I am a real retired person who has lived in Thailand for 10 years and Florida for 10 years. I pay less for my housing expenses in Thailand than I paid for maintenance of my condo in Florida. I don't need a car in Thailand and the health care is better and yes I have been in the hospital for the same thing in both places. And as I don't want to be a blimp I like the food here better. But all those things pale when comparing the people. I don't like the Florida crackers and the snow birds are worse. Thai people I find friendly and nice to be with and they don't smell bad. So I'm stuck. It is also an added benefit that my wife also lives here and has a good job. If I was rich I'd have alternatives but I can't see where else I could live in the same style as I have now in Thailand. But you all keep posting and I'll keep reading. Who knows maybe there is a better place.

Edited November 30, 2014 by thailiketoo

[rgs2001uk]

Jamaica, great food, hot women and decent spicy rum.

Bonus, watching test match cricket.

[Naam]

San Diego

fancy real estate prices

[mogandave]

San Diego

fancy real estate prices

Good living, great fishing

That said, there are decent digs available on a budget...

[JLCrab]

I'm a 25 year resident of Florida and while I like the beaches the springs in the State Parks are unique.

[craigt3365]

San Diego

fancy real estate prices

Extremely expensive for most items. And the traffic is absolutely horrible. I lived there for 12 years, Carlsbad. Also, quite cold in the winters. And if inland a bit, quite hot in the summers.

I got tired of the June gloom. We'd go weeks and weeks without seeing the sun. But overall, it's a very nice city. If you don't have to drive much. Weekends were worse with all the LA folks heading south. Hard to believe, but worse traffic on Sunday evening than on Monday morning!

[craigt3365]

I am a real retired person who has lived in Thailand for 10 years and Florida for 10 years. I pay less for my housing expenses in Thailand than I paid for maintenance of my condo in Florida. I don't need a car in Thailand and the health care is better and yes I have been in the hospital for the same thing in both places. And as I don't want to be a blimp I like the food here better. But all those things pale when comparing the people. I don't like the Florida crackers and the snow birds are worse. Thai people I find friendly and nice to be with and they don't smell bad. So I'm stuck. It is also an added benefit that my wife also lives here and has a good job. If I was rich I'd have alternatives but I can't see where else I could live in the same style as I have now in Thailand. But you all keep posting and I'll keep reading. Who knows maybe there is a better place.

We've been through this before. It all depends on your lifestyle. I could easily have a lifestyle here that's way more expensive than what I'd have in Florida. But yes, if you want to live really cheap, it's easier here. Though for many, that's not a desirable option.

As for health care, sorry, but no way it's better here. Especially if you are outside Bangkok. Cheaper? Yes. Higher quality? No. Having spent years with my father in and out of various hospitals in the US, and now starting to have to deal with them here due to my mother, it's a night and day difference. In terms of price also, unfortunately. But they do procedures in the US that they haven't even thought of here.

As for food, you have much better options in the US for quality food. Organic, fantastic farmer's markets, etc. The food here can be healthy, but you have to pick and choose carefully. Not everybody in the US eats unhealthy food.

[JLCrab]

I was asked on a recent trip to Florida -- where I swam in the springs in the picture -- whether I would anytime be relocating to Florida. I said that would most likely only be for Medicare reasons. When asked: What reason or reasons would that be? I answered: As of now I don't have the slightest idea.

[thailiketoo]

Both of my parents died in Florida and I almost did numerous times. My evaluation of health care is in general; a lot of good doctors don't take Medicare/Medicaid patients or if they do charge higher than recommended prices. The doctors were ripping of both of my parents till I got there and took over their health care. (this was 10 years ago so might have changed).

Nursing homes in Florida except for the ultra expensive private ones all smell like urine, the food is awful and the care haphazard at best. If you don't have a relative to check on you once a week you are in trouble.

Emergency care I can't compare as the best ER doctor in Florida is a friend of mine so I never had any problems. I also never had any problems in Thailand with speed or service or accurate procedures. I have health insurance with a good private hospital.

Transportation is a big expense for older people in the States who don't drive. And where can you live except major cities downtown and not drive? Is there anyplace? You can live all over Thailand and not drive. Transportation is cheap,

How do you get a nursing home for free in the USA? Spend all of your money, become a pauper and a ward of the State. That's Medicaid. (feel free to correct me as my experience is 10 years old).

I think it is a better deal in South East Asia because you can afford to live less expensively and keep care giving help rather than become a ward of the State.

I have a good education and know how to use the INTERNET and I like being able to get my own medication here in Thailand.

[Naam]

San Diego

fancy real estate prices

Good living, great fishing

That said, there are decent digs available on a budget...

if great fishing is a part of good living you can keep it

[Naam]

Interesting you mention PV. We really liked it there. A bit touristy, especially when the big cruise ships come in, but a neat town. We also liked the Ixtapa/Zia area as it's more tropical, the water is warmer and it doesn't get as cold as PV and points north. Some friends spend the winters somewhere south of Cancun and just love it. There's also a very large and active expat community in the lake Chapala area. Never been, but seem to have everything setup for expats.

With Portuguese, you should be able to pick up Spanish easily! 55555

I've only spent a few weeks in Brazil, but member Naam spent a lot of time there and loved it. Not sure where, but it was up in the mountains. He backed off on his plans after the currency started to rise. Made things too expensive there. I was in Rio, the crime is insane there.

With 8k USD a month to play with, you should be able to afford it! 55555

that's some misunderstanding Craig. we had a most beautiful building plot in a (starting) gated community (Itaipava 100km north of Rio) 1005 meters above sea level but couldn't obtain a residence permit which requires a government pension of min USD 8,000 per annum. our proposal to pay taxes on $100k was rejected because "the law is the law". sold 5 years later our land after moving to Thailand.

[jpinx]

Speaking of Naam, in a thread at least a year ago, someone asked where would be the best place in the world to live. Naam posted simply "The United States of America."

He had owned a home in Florida but ran into problems getting permanent residency. You could ask him what that was. I do know you can buy a home when only on a tourist visa, so you might check out what it would then take to get regular tourist visas.

The US is frankly cheaper to live in than Thailand. Shocker maybe, but so many things are so heavily taxed in LOS that about the only things that are cheaper in LOS are some utilities, Thai food, and housing. But I think that is offset by other very expensive things in LOS. Any consumer good including a car, Western food, even gasoline can be sky high in LOS.

I wouldn't write it off without some research.

I tire of third world countries with dodgy water, electricity, internet, and roads and rule of law etc. I could never permanently move to Thailand even though I like to visit.

I'm not comfortable in Mexico or Central and South America except maybe Ecuador. They did have a good visa program but I'm not current on that.

NeverSure is correct! however, it was not a problem to get permanent residency but the restrictions placed on us foreigners (who had valid 10-year visas) after the sept11 terror attack. these 10-y visas where subject to a maximum stay of 6 months at a stretch, a restriction which did not bother us at all because we spent some months in our German home and of course did quite some travelling.

two years after sept11 the validity of our driver's licences were reduced to six months respectively months spent, id est whenever we reentered the states we had to apply for a new DL. in the meantime the insurance for our cars was automatically canceled and had to be applied again presenting the new licenses. these were rather small problems which could have been solved with the help of American friends... but

immigration started to act "strange" with questions such as "who are you, what are you and why are you?" (i exaggerate a bit )

carrying our income tax returns with us when travelling did not count... "we are the INS and not the IRS!" in december 2003 my wife flew to London to attend some sort of class reunion with colleagues who attended the same university. sobbing she called me from Atlanta that she missed her connecting flight to Orlando because she was held for 2 hours at immigration. when asked "what is the purpose of your visit" she answered "we are a retired couple and own since more than a decade a home in Florida where we spend 6-8 months a year." the answer was "owning a home in Florida is not valid reason to enter the Yewnighted States!"

three months later our home and the two homes i built for two German friends were sold.

Speaking of Naam, in a thread at least a year ago, someone asked where would be the best place in the world to live. Naam posted simply "The United States of America."

this is correct. we would have never left the States if the situation (as described above) had not changed. and if i'd tell my wife today "i've found a way to live undisturbed in the Greatest Nation on Earth" she'd be busy tomorrow morning to call real estate agents and moving companies in Thailand and google for homes for sale in the U.S. (one in Central Florida and one in West Virginia).

Your experience tallies with mine in many respects. I went from a US visa for life - cancelled without notice - through various stages of lesser visas up to the point where I was hauled out of the queue at LA and given the 3rd degree for no reason at all -- just profiling.

US Property ownership was something I carefully avoided after the first visa cancellation but I hear of many others in similar situation to yourself. Now I don't go to the USA at all - not even for transit. They don't have a transit hall facility at airports -- you must actually enter USA to get the next flight - even if it's only a couple of hours, so immigration delays are a major factor in planning an itinerary. The US has become more of a police state than many countries I could mention. Not saying they don't have their reasons, but they might try to be more thorough and less heavy-handed

[arby]

check out Sayulita, Nayarit, Mexico. I lived there in the winters for 20 years and then year round for 11 years and against my better judgement married and divorced a local girl........which forced me to leave. I bought land in Isla Colon, Bocas del Toro, Panama and like it there but my Thai wife is not willing to relocate there. Check out Raiatea, French Polynesia also. I have lived there and still own property there. It can be expensive but if you are not into nice cars, fancy homes, etc. and learn to live like the locals, it can be affordable. Crystal clear waters, great fishing, good food, beautiful women and nice weather. Sri Lanka fits most of your criteria but my own experience, on the east coast, with medical facilities wasn't favorable. Like stepping back in time. I have been told that the west coast is much different. I , like you, was/am looking for the same things with a surfing destination as one of my priorities and have purchased land in all of the above locations. I am now thinking of going to Ecuador to check things out as I have researched it fairly extensively for the last 4 years and it seems to fit my requirements. If I do like it I guess I will have to think of selling all my other properties as I am 67 now and by the time I make the move and settle in I doubt I will travel to the other destinations. Time to settle down I guess.........Been here in Thailand for 13 years and I have had about enough........ If you would like any further information about the above locations , or photos, pm me. Good luck with your search/adventure.