Practical Guidance And Standard Of Investigation

[Jimbo551]

One idea I have...........gift the wife's shares to my children 50/50. They are both minors (both under 12 years old) but I understand it is perfectly legal to do this. Now the question is - as they have my surname is there a law that considers these shares to be owned by me the 49% shareholder as well in the same way as the wife's?

Are you sure that is correct? We had a case recently where shares were to be put in a childs name (age 15) and we were told it was not possible.

[simon43]

1.) The practical guidance in the letter referred above shall be applicable to juristic persons (companies and partnerships) applying for acquisition of land with the objective to carry out a real estate business, i.e., buy, sale, rent of land, operation of hotel and resort.

[\quote]

Greg, does that mean that if you are setting up a Thai company with a foreign shareholder (40%), and Thai shareholders (60% but preference share set-up so that the foreigner has control of the company), AND this Thai company will not be involved in real-estate business, then the company set-up can be straight-forward without any investigation of share-holders?

I ask because, as you know, I want to set up a new Thai company (with my Thai wife and family as shareholders). This new company will be actively involved in business in Thailand. But any business involving land/real-estate etc can be 'processed' directly via my wife and not via the Thai company. The Thai company will be involved in software development etc.

Simon

[Cabana]

One idea I have...........gift the wife's shares to my children 50/50. They are both minors (both under 12 years old) but I understand it is perfectly legal to do this. Now the question is - as they have my surname is there a law that considers these shares to be owned by me the 49% shareholder as well in the same way as the wife's?

Are you sure that is correct? We had a case recently where shares were to be put in a childs name (age 15) and we were told it was not possible.

Well I am not sure but I have to believe the experts...........I asked one of Sunbelts competitors today they say that provided it is done AFTER incorporation (ie not when u set up the company) even a baby can be a shareholder.

[Cabana]

It may initially sound reassuring to hear that an opportunity would be given to sell the land. But can you imagine if these "investigations" force large numbers to do this over a short period of time (6-12 months). What would the effect on land value be? There just are not enough "bone fide" Thai investors around.

I would be interested to know how many foreigners would be prepared to go ahead with a purchase using one of your more complicated "cutting edge" solutions Sunbelt. Is all this not going to scare them away?

As the ltd company formations have clearly almost come to a halt the lawyers/advisors need to find another revenue stream such as............changing shareholder structures and creating habitation rights etc. The real estate markets in places such as Hua Hin, Phuket and Samui will all have taken a hit but anyone with a condo with nice clean foreigner ownership rights will be laughing.

[Sunbelt Asia]

One idea I have...........gift the wife's shares to my children 50/50. They are both minors (both under 12 years old) but I understand it is perfectly legal to do this. Now the question is - as they have my surname is there a law that considers these shares to be owned by me the 49% shareholder as well in the same way as the wife's?

Are you sure that is correct? We had a case recently where shares were to be put in a childs name (age 15) and we were told it was not possible.

You can put shares in a kids name after the company is formed. They cannot be listed as a promoter while the company is set up. Using this company to buy land with the kid as a Thai shareholder is a different story as you need to show the source of funds.

Can you do it after the land is purchased? No one would stop you but if the company is investigated, it could get sticky on how the child had funds to be a shareholder, as the funds had to come from a Thai source and it cannot be a loan because he is a kid.

Greg, does that mean that if you are setting up a Thai company with a foreign shareholder (40%), and Thai shareholders (60% but preference share set-up so that the foreigner has control of the company), AND this Thai company will not be involved in real-estate business, then the company set-up can be straight-forward without any investigation of share-holders?

This is the guidance for the purchase of land. The guidance for forming a company since August 15th, no matter what the objective, if cash is involved has been a full investigation of the Thais if either the foreigner is a signing Director even if they hold less than 39% of the shares or if they hold 40-49% of the shares ( either they are a director or are not a director), that the Thai shareholders must provide 6 months bank statements or letter from the bank certifying the money in the account and how long they have been a account holder or source of the funds ( Example: Eighty year old lady investing 5 Baht needs to have a letter she gets 5,000 Baht from her son every month. The son needs to write a letter that he gives 5,000 Baht a month and how she has 5 Baht to buy one share of the Thai Limited Company)

As for buying land with a Thai company, it’s possible but the Thai investors and you need to meet the criteria. A number of people however are going BOI so the Thai company can own the land with them being the majority shareholder.

At Sunbelt, we are working on a number of BOI applications with software development, like your company does. If approved you may be able to own the land not only for your office, but as well for the residence under the promoted company's name.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[epicstuff]

Ok, so if land can be trasfered to a Kids Name after the land purchase.

Can a contract be drawn so that the land can be purchased 100% in my girlfriends name. then immediatly transfered to my sons name with me as gardian.

and if so would there be complications getting land divisions and selling parts of that land off some time down the line?

[epicstuff]

And if the land is in a thai nationals name would you even need a company..?

All this news is very upsetting , I can see why they are doing all this , as so many people have really taken advantage of land inflation. and totally rapped the land, cutting down every tree and squeezing as many plots and houses as possible to maxzimize profits, It seems however the way the law has been set up kind of means that so many of the people interested in buying land for real estate intentions are either well conected and rich Thais or people with black money, either way these type dont give a damned about scarring up the land.

After seeing all the abuse on Samui from neibouring Phangan, I've got involved thinking I could make a difference and show others how to do it responciblily. Of course making some money was part of the plan but so was doing it nicely and preserving the land and keeping as many trees and natural land formations as possible. :

so I sold my house in the Uk and invested 99.9% of it over here just 2 days before the samui thing hit. should i just stay calm or shoot myself now.????????????unsure:

[Sunbelt Asia]

Ok, so if land can be trasfered to a Kids Name after the land purchase.

Please explain. Why do you say after the land purchase?

Can a contract be drawn so that the land can be purchased 100% in my girlfriends name. then immediatly transfered to my sons name with me as gardian.

Put it in his name at the time of purchase, no need to use the girl friend.

and if so would there be complications getting land divisions and selling parts of that land off some time down the line?

The odds are very high, no movement on the land( subdivide, lease, transfer, sell)can take place when its in the child's name unless the court approves it.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

And if the land is in a thai nationals name would you even need a company..?

No. But putting the land in a Thai nationals name has risk as well.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[thaigene2]

Sunbelt - I think we've come full circle on this.

The company route is all but dead, except for 'real' companies with sizeable assets that are indeed trading, viable, entities.

You're advice for the easiest hassle-free way to access land-and-house, if I summarize correctly, is buy it in the Thai wife's name (assuming you have one), get a simultaneous 30 year lease on the land with an indication that you own the buildings on that land and that they cannot be removed, nor can the property be sold or sub-let, as long as the lease is in force (whether you live there or not but subject to your death the lease is void).

That's it..right?

By the way, another lawyer in BKK once told me that if I bought a condo in my name and wanted to place my wife's name as 50/50 on the title, the Thai Govt would still consider it 100% 'Alien' owned. Interesting. (she has the same surname - though I doubt that matters). So if it's a condo, and solely in my name, will the Land Registry consider this entirely mine? Would the courts in a divorce case think the same?

[Dragonman]

You're advice for the easiest hassle-free way to access land-and-house, if I summarize correctly, is buy it in the Thai wife's name (assuming you have one), get a simultaneous 30 year lease on the land with an indication that you own the buildings on that land and that they cannot be removed, nor can the property be sold or sub-let, as long as the lease is in force (whether you live there or not but subject to your death the lease is void).

That's it..right?

By the way, another lawyer in BKK once told me that if I bought a condo in my name and wanted to place my wife's name as 50/50 on the title, the Thai Govt would still consider it 100% 'Alien' owned. Interesting. (she has the same surname - though I doubt that matters). So if it's a condo, and solely in my name, will the Land Registry consider this entirely mine? Would the courts in a divorce case think the same?

Perhaps not Sunbelt's but my advice based on above is close to what you say.

30 year lease with option inclusion within the lease.

Register building as yours as allowed for under law.

You will not stop the lessor selling the property and hence negating the option, but you are able to put clauses regarding you being able to transfer or sub let lease in the lease itself. With regard to inheritance, the Leasehold Amendment Act does not specifically refer to this under residential, but most lawyers, including myself, feel that transfer by way of bequeath is allowable if included in Lease Agreement.

With regard to the Condo in your name. Unless you are able to prove ring fencing by means of antenuptial, or evidence money not community property, 50-50.

[Sunbelt Asia]

You're advice for the easiest hassle-free way to access land-and-house, if I summarize correctly, is buy it in the Thai wife's name (assuming you have one), get a simultaneous 30 year lease on the land with an indication that you own the buildings on that land and that they cannot be removed, nor can the property be sold or sub-let, as long as the lease is in force (whether you live there or not but subject to your death the lease is void).

That's it..right?

Correct except we favor doing a usufruct or superficies instead of a thirty year lease. As the land cannot be sold or transferred without the servitude being cancelled by the grant holder.

By the way, another lawyer in BKK once told me that if I bought a condo in my name and wanted to place my wife's name as 50/50 on the title, the Thai Govt would still consider it 100% 'Alien' owned. Interesting. (she has the same surname - though I doubt that matters).

It could be the BKK lawyer was talking of the ratio of units sold in the building. It would be on the 49% side"Alien"

So if it's a condo, and solely in my name, will the Land Registry consider this entirely mine? Would the courts in a divorce case think the same?

No. It would be 50/50

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Cabana]

So if it's a condo, and solely in my name, will the Land Registry consider this entirely mine? Would the courts in a divorce case think the same?

No. It would be 50/50

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Unless you had listed the asset in the pre/ante nuptial attached to the marriage certificate, AND IF YOU HAD it would be 100% YOURS ON DIVORCE (ONLY NEW ASSETS WOULD BE 50/50).

[Tornado]

great info sunbelt - cheers.