Avoiding insurance scams

[PacificCrossInsurance]

Expats who live in Thailand are the target of many insurance and financial services brokerages or sales people who are not based in Thailand, and it pays to be aware of the risks you are exposed to by dealing with such organisations and being aware of some basic facts goes a long way to protecting you from an area where scams and 'rip-offs' are more prevalent.

Most expats come from home countries that have a well developed regulatory regime that governs the conduct of those who sell financial products, so accept as a matter of course that these people are subject to certain standards of transparency, accountability for their advice, professional conduct, minimum levels of training, and that they are of good repute - for example have not been found guilty of fraud or similar within a certain time frame. And if this is a business such as a brokerage, there are rules and monitoring around such things as who can be directors, minimum levels of capital, and adherence to relevant reporting requirements.

It can be easy to be somewhat dismissive of the various arms of government in Thailand - but it would be unwise to think the reglator of the insurance industry (the Office of the Insurance Commissioner, or OIC) is any less effective than those in markets like Europe, North America or Australasia. A well regulated insurance industry is critical to the financial credibility of a country and this is taken very seriously in Thailand, with well developed rules and ongoing monitoring of the individuals and companies authorised to sell insurance companies.

So by dealing with an adviser or broker in your home market and dealing with one who falls under the regulations of your country of residence assuming this is Thailand, provides you with all of the reassurances that you would expect that there is little likelihood of things going awry - but if they do, you have the protection of the regulator.

But none of this applies if you choose to engage with an adviser who is located outside your home country or outside Thailand. In fact, there are some very serious risks that are associated with this, that you should be well mindful of when considering whether or not to deal with such an 'offshore' adviser.

1. No regulatory protection for you. If you are mis-sold, misled, defrauded or anything else unsavory, you are on your own. The regulator in your home country is not involved; the Thai regulator not interested as it is outside their jurisdiction, and even if the group you are dealing with is regulated elsewhere, such as Singapore or Hong Kong, their regulator is not interested because you are outside their jurisdiction as well.

2. No regulatory oversight of the sales person or company. In terms of activities that a brokerage or individual sales person may take outside where they are located and regulated, there is no monitoring, accountability, or rules governing behaviour. So you don't have any idea if you could be dealing with someone who is barred from doing business in one country or another; no obligation for the broker to adhere to data privacy regulations, no requirements for them to be solvent ... in fact this is such a grey area there is really nothing to stop an offshore adviser from deliberately misleading you and giving completely false information ... because if you want to complain, 'who 'ya gonna call?'

3. Restricted product range. You are unlikely to ever hear this from an offshore sales person but the facts are they are prohibited from selling the products authorised for sale in a particular market, and can only offer those regulated for the 'international' market space where they fall under the regulator of such locations as Liechtenstein, the Isle of Man, Gibraltar, or the Cayman Islands. Offshore products are a separate topic but do not be duped into thinking an offshore adviser can provide the widest and best choice of products or that the products they offer are superior ... this is not the case.

Always exercise caution when it comes to taking advice and then acting on that advice when it comes to financial products. When it comes to advisers that are outside both your home country and your current residence there is reason to be doubly cautious. Do not take everything at face value and remember the three major areas of risk you are exposing yourself to before making your final decision.

[SOTIRIOS]

....when next to nothing is regulated....

...and when you have little or no rights.....except expensive 'legal recourse'.......

....you are the ideal target.....

...so put the blame and onus on you........???

[stevenl]

....when next to nothing is regulated....

...and when you have little or no rights.....except expensive 'legal recourse'.......

....you are the ideal target.....

...so put the blame and onus on you........???

Did you read the OP?

It is well regulated in Thailand.

[Liquorice]

Expats who live in Thailand are the target of many insurance and financial services brokerages or sales people who are not based in Thailand, and it pays to be aware of the risks you are exposed to by dealing with such organisations and being aware of some basic facts goes a long way to protecting you from an area where scams and 'rip-offs' are more prevalent.

Pacific Cross

Address: 8000 Makati Avenue 1200, Philippines

Mmmmmm!

[stevenl]

Expats who live in Thailand are the target of many insurance and financial services brokerages or sales people who are not based in Thailand, and it pays to be aware of the risks you are exposed to by dealing with such organisations and being aware of some basic facts goes a long way to protecting you from an area where scams and 'rip-offs' are more prevalent.

Pacific Cross

Address: 8000 Makati Avenue 1200, Philippines

Mmmmmm!

You forgot to mention their Thai company name and Thai address:

Pacific Cross Health Insurance

152 Chartered Square Building

21st Floor, North Sathorn Road,

Silom, Bangrak,

Bangkok 10500

[Liquorice]

They may have an address in Thailand but they are based in the Philippines.

Read the OP's opening paragraph and you realise the irony of what he says.

Maybe he should reword the first paragraph.

[stevenl]

They may have an address in Thailand but they are based in the Philippines.

Read the OP's opening paragraph and you realise the irony of what he says.

Maybe he should reword the first paragraph.

They are a legitimate Thai company supervised by the Thai regulator.

[Liquorice]

stevenl, on 04 Dec 2014 - 19:24, said:

Faz, on 04 Dec 2014 - 18:59, said:

They may have an address in Thailand but they are based in the Philippines.

Read the OP's opening paragraph and you realise the irony of what he says.

Maybe he should reword the first paragraph.

They are a legitimate Thai company supervised by the Thai regulator.

steveni, I never suggested they are not a legitimate company.

I referred to the opening line of the OP. Quote:

"Expats who live in Thailand are the target of many insurance and financial services brokerages or sales people who are not based in Thailand".

A quick 'google' search and I find the company are based in the Philippines.

That opening statement doesn't instil any confidence in me to trust this company any more than any other, when I then discover they are not based in Thailand, is all I'm saying.

[Orac]

"it would be unwise to think the reglator of the insurance industry (the Office of the Insurance Commissioner, or OIC) is any less effective than those in markets like Europe, North America or Australasia."

I find this statement from the OP a little naive to say the least. Anyone who believes consumer protection here in financial products is on a par with somewhere like the UK needs their head examining.

[stevenl]

stevenl, on 04 Dec 2014 - 19:24, said:

Faz, on 04 Dec 2014 - 18:59, said:

They may have an address in Thailand but they are based in the Philippines.

Read the OP's opening paragraph and you realise the irony of what he says.

Maybe he should reword the first paragraph.

They are a legitimate Thai company supervised by the Thai regulator.

steveni, I never suggested they are not a legitimate company.

I referred to the opening line of the OP. Quote:

"Expats who live in Thailand are the target of many insurance and financial services brokerages or sales people who are not based in Thailand".

A quick 'google' search and I find the company are based in the Philippines.

That opening statement doesn't instil any confidence in me to trust this company any more than any other, when I then discover they are not based in Thailand, is all I'm saying.

And what you're saying is not true.

Alllianz has their head office in Munchen, but Allianz Thailand is based in Thailand. Pacific Cross may have their head office in Manilla (I don't know nor do I care), but Pacific Cross Thailand is based in Thailand. And that is all that matters.

[PacificCrossInsurance]

More than 60 insurance companies are licensed to operate in Thailand and fall under the jurisdiction of the Thai regulator, the OIC. Among these are many with associations or affiliations of one form or another with multinationals whose home office is located elsewhere such as Korea (Thai Samsung Life), Japan (Tokio Marine, Sompo Japan, MSIG), Canada (Manulife, Falcon), the US (AIG, New Hampshire, Ace, LMG, Cigna), Australia (Safety - IAG, QBE), Hong Kong (AIA), Italy (Generali), Germany (Allianz, Allianz Ayudha), the UK (Prudential) and more.

But the point of relevance in terms of regulation and consumer protection is these companies, when registered in Thailand, meet the necessary capital and corporate governance requirements for Thailand and are not offshore companies but are Thai registered and Thai licensed insurers adhering to Thai regulations - for example meeting capital adequacy and solvency requirements based purely on their Thai based assets. They are fully constituted independent and self-sufficient companies and not subsidiaries of offshore entities, branches, representative offices or anything similar.

Whether the level of consumer protection offered by the Thai regulatory regime is on a par with other countries such as the UK is of course a matter of opinion ... however is is easy to be dismissive based on general assumptions but our opinion is that the level of regulation in Thailand is much closer to the standards of so-called 'developed markets' than those outside the industry would assume. This is expressed as an opinion and there is plenty of room for other opinions and should your opinion differ that is your prerogative - we don't suggest you undertake a psychological evaluation just because you disagree!

The subject of this original post was about the level of consumer protection relating to the advice or activities of sales people based outside your home country or Thailand (assuming Thailand is your place of residence) and suggests ways in which an individual client can lower their exposure to risk. The location of the company who offer products that may be sold by brokers or intermediaries (as opposed to the location of the intermediary) is a separate topic as noted in the original post and we will offer some view os this specific topic at another time.

It is great to see interest and debate around this topic and differing opinions are what makes such a debate interesting. And a healthy degree of suspicion toward the claims made by any company or individual involved in the broader financial services industry is a good thing and the first step towards protecting yourself from risk, and if the organisation or individual is acting with integrity and good faith they should be able to provide responses that are satisfactory - so please continue with any comments, responses, and disagreements!

Pacific Cross Health Insurance
152 Chartered Square Building
21st Floor, North Sathorn Road,
Silom, Bangrak,
Bangkok 10500 [email protected]

P: 02 401 9189 (International +66 2 401 9189)
F: 02 401 9187 (International +66 2 401 9187)

Pacific_Cross_Map_EN.pdf

[Liquorice]

CONTACT US

Pacific Cross Insurance Company Limited

1.

If you are seeking advice on your insurance needs, kindly contact insurance broker or other authorized insurance intermediary. Our third party administrator cannot and will not provide any such advice nor will our third party administrator involve itself in arranging the sale of any Pacific Cross's products. For the avoidance of doubt, any advice on your insurance needs prior to (or after) the inception of any policy should be directed to your insurance broker or other authorized insurance intermediary.

2.

For inquiries regarding claims or policy administrative services after any policy has been incepted, please contact our third party administrator below:

International Administrators Limited
11/F, Overseas Trust Bank Building,
160 Gloucester Road,
Wan Chai, Hong Kong, SAR

Tel: (852) 2573-2278, (852) 2573-2535
Fax: (852) 2573-2917
Email: [email protected]

Can't even contact them, brokers or agents only.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Faz

[stevenl]

Source please.

[PacificCrossInsurance]

CONTACT US

Pacific Cross Insurance Company Limited

1.

If you are seeking advice on your insurance needs, kindly contact insurance broker or other authorized insurance intermediary. Our third party administrator cannot and will not provide any such advice nor will our third party administrator involve itself in arranging the sale of any Pacific Cross's products. For the avoidance of doubt, any advice on your insurance needs prior to (or after) the inception of any policy should be directed to your insurance broker or other authorized insurance intermediary.

2.

For inquiries regarding claims or policy administrative services after any policy has been incepted, please contact our third party administrator below:

International Administrators Limited

11/F, Overseas Trust Bank Building,

160 Gloucester Road,

Wan Chai, Hong Kong, SAR

Tel: (852) 2573-2278, (852) 2573-2535

Fax: (852) 2573-2917

Email: [email protected]

Can't even contact them, brokers or agents only.

International Administrators Limited (IAL) in Hong Kong is the third party administrator for Pacific Cross Insurance Co Ltd which is part of the Pacific Cross Group but completely unrelated to Pacific Cross Health Insurance PCL which is the Thailand registered insurance company. Third party administrators don't provide advice or sell insurance policies so there is nothing unusual in this statement. There are also Pacific Cross Group related entities in Vietnam, Indonesia, the Philippines and Cambodia and the presence of operations in multiple countries is what defines a multinational ... and this is the same for all insurance companies that are registered in Thailand and are associated in some way with a multinational entity - AXA, BUPA, LMG, AIG, Cigna, QBE ... etc.

The real point here is you CAN contact us: