90% failure rate in mid term exam

[atyclb]

It is quite clear that a lot of posters do not know what they are talking about and painting all government universities with the same brush. You will find that the open universities here, Ramkamhaeng and Sukhothai, have very high failure rates. Failure means failure, and you do not graduate. On the law course at Ram the failure rate is up near 70 percent. That is, 70 percent of students who sign up on the law degree course do not graduate in law. Just one example. So saying everyone will graduate is a crock of Sh*t.

a 70% attrition/non graduation rate is understandable if they have open enrollment. anyone wishing to study law can simply enroll? that is a fair system. everyone is not cut out for it and will find out sooner or later but they get a chance.

it seems ABAC does not have the auto pass either.

[lucifer666]

Once had a student that would do nothing but sit in class listening to his phone. Not even a kick in the ass could help him. Anway, he scored ZERO on his test ( only filled in his name), so i failed him..... and was fired the week after for "Failing a student who was so clearly superior, he didn't need tests" ( the Deans words). That day, the Dean learned a few English words that are not in any dictionary.

[inbangkok]

It is quite clear that a lot of posters do not know what they are talking about and painting all government universities with the same brush. You will find that the open universities here, Ramkamhaeng and Sukhothai, have very high failure rates. Failure means failure, and you do not graduate. On the law course at Ram the failure rate is up near 70 percent. That is, 70 percent of students who sign up on the law degree course do not graduate in law. Just one example. So saying everyone will graduate is a crock of Sh*t.

You are the one who clearly does not know how open universities work here. It is not a 70% failure rate because students fail exams......it is because the vast majority of people who enroll in an open university stop attending!

Everyone can indeed graduate if they put in minimal effort and take the exams.

[duanebigsby]

Everyone's a winner.

Except the student who hasn't learned to read, basic math, science, or history, let alone English.

The kids lose.

[Traveling Sailor]

You get paid, you pass them all.

It's an easy system to work with.

also soul destroying if you care even a vague amount about the students and your own work standards.

You're in Thailand, there are no standards, everyone passes everything.

Just smile a lot and go through the motions, like everyone else.

Makes life much easier.

And, if your own work ethic or conscience makes you uncomfortable with this sort of "education", then probably best to say "goodbye" to Thailand and find a better place to teach/live. There are many better places in the world to teach/live/work.

[maidee]

thainess, take it with a smile

wait for your paycheck at the end of the month

[GarryP]

It is quite clear that a lot of posters do not know what they are talking about and painting all government universities with the same brush. You will find that the open universities here, Ramkamhaeng and Sukhothai, have very high failure rates. Failure means failure, and you do not graduate. On the law course at Ram the failure rate is up near 70 percent. That is, 70 percent of students who sign up on the law degree course do not graduate in law. Just one example. So saying everyone will graduate is a crock of Sh*t.

You are the one who clearly does not know how open universities work here. It is not a 70% failure rate because students fail exams......it is because the vast majority of people who enroll in an open university stop attending!

Everyone can indeed graduate if they put in minimal effort and take the exams.

Wrong. Check the grades posted after finals. In many subjects the failure rate is up to 70 percent or higher. You may re-sit the exams, different papers, but if you fail again (most do) you must take the course again, ad infinitum, until you are able to pass. Many students do not graduate because they fail to pass one or more of the subjects required.

I do agree however that in open universities many people stop attending, but this usually due to a constant inability to pass exams so they throw in the towel.

Simply taking exams does not guarantee graduation though. You need to pass those exams.

[BritManToo]

Slightly off topic,

A lot of foreigner teachers miss out on the classroom 'activity' extortion racket.

You have a compulsory activity, provide Coloured paper and glue, charge 40bht a child for the materials.

Materials actually cost 5bht, you make 35bht profit per pupil, kids tell parents 50bht for activity, make 10bht off parents.

Everybody happy, apart from parents.

[Tonawatchee]

They will all become the perfect graduates the kingdom needs to maintain the status quo.

[mercman24]

every person i come into contact with has a degree of some sort, thick as two short planks some of them, the mind boggles, mai pen rai,

[lil fluffy clouds]

If you yourself sit up the back of the class will you still get paid....

Why on earth would anybody employ anyone coming out of a thai university?...

[sanuk711]

I'm a little confused............. ...... If everyone will pass everything, why do I occasionally read about the odd teachers who have been arrested /suspended for offering to give pass to female students for favors.

[CWMcMurray]

It is quite clear that a lot of posters do not know what they are talking about and painting all government universities with the same brush. You will find that the open universities here, Ramkamhaeng and Sukhothai, have very high failure rates. Failure means failure, and you do not graduate. On the law course at Ram the failure rate is up near 70 percent. That is, 70 percent of students who sign up on the law degree course do not graduate in law. Just one example. So saying everyone will graduate is a crock of Sh*t.

You are the one who clearly does not know how open universities work here. It is not a 70% failure rate because students fail exams......it is because the vast majority of people who enroll in an open university stop attending!

Everyone can indeed graduate if they put in minimal effort and take the exams.

Wrong. Check the grades posted after finals. In many subjects the failure rate is up to 70 percent or higher. You may re-sit the exams, different papers, but if you fail again (most do) you must take the course again, ad infinitum, until you are able to pass. Many students do not graduate because they fail to pass one or more of the subjects required.

I do agree however that in open universities many people stop attending, but this usually due to a constant inability to pass exams so they throw in the towel.

Simply taking exams does not guarantee graduation though. You need to pass those exams.

Very true...

My wife had an employee for a number of years that was attending Ram University and she finally stopped going with only 2 classes left before degree.

The reason...she spent 2 years taking these same 2 classes every term for 2 years without passing the test to get credit for the 2 classes...

She would joke that Ram University is the easiest university to enter, but the hardest to leave (w/ degree).

Don't know how accurate that is, as never went there...

But did go to MUIC and can confirm that students failed classes every term.. And were not allowed to "re-test".

If you failed... You failed ... And then needed to take the class again the next semester.

Knew a fair number of people that failed various subjects... And their only recourse was to take the class again.

Granted the no fail policy may be alive and well at some places... But seems to be a school policy rather than a Thai nationwide policy...

[Cereal]

Hey man, it's the same in Korea. This place considers itself as equal to Western schools, well Western everything except where they consider themselves better than everybody else.

[aarontendo]

Heh it was a sort of culture shock for me when I started at an international school and was told I could fail kids. I said really here in Thailand, are you sure? ><

[Jaggg88]

You get paid, you pass them all.

It's an easy system to work with.

also soul destroying if you care even a vague amount about the students and your own work standards.

and this is why degrees from Thai universities are not highly thought of internationally

[DekDaeng]

Everyone's a winner.

Except the student who hasn't learned to read, basic math, science, or history, let alone English.

The kids lose.

And then their 'best country in the world because it's never been colonised' superiority complex becomes warped as they realize the true situation; one result being their thinly disguised feelings toward foreigners.

[culicine]

It is quite clear that a lot of posters do not know what they are talking about and painting all government universities with the same brush. You will find that the open universities here, Ramkamhaeng and Sukhothai, have very high failure rates. Failure means failure, and you do not graduate. On the law course at Ram the failure rate is up near 70 percent. That is, 70 percent of students who sign up on the law degree course do not graduate in law. Just one example. So saying everyone will graduate is a crock of Sh*t.

You are the one who clearly does not know how open universities work here. It is not a 70% failure rate because students fail exams......it is because the vast majority of people who enroll in an open university stop attending!

Everyone can indeed graduate if they put in minimal effort and take the exams.

Wrong. Check the grades posted after finals. In many subjects the failure rate is up to 70 percent or higher. You may re-sit the exams, different papers, but if you fail again (most do) you must take the course again, ad infinitum, until you are able to pass. Many students do not graduate because they fail to pass one or more of the subjects required.

I do agree however that in open universities many people stop attending, but this usually due to a constant inability to pass exams so they throw in the towel.

Simply taking exams does not guarantee graduation though. You need to pass those exams.

Very true...

My wife had an employee for a number of years that was attending Ram University and she finally stopped going with only 2 classes left before degree.

The reason...she spent 2 years taking these same 2 classes every term for 2 years without passing the test to get credit for the 2 classes...

She would joke that Ram University is the easiest university to enter, but the hardest to leave (w/ degree).

Don't know how accurate that is, as never went there...

But did go to MUIC and can confirm that students failed classes every term.. And were not allowed to "re-test".

If you failed... You failed ... And then needed to take the class again the next semester.

Knew a fair number of people that failed various subjects... And their only recourse was to take the class again.

Granted the no fail policy may be alive and well at some places... But seems to be a school policy rather than a Thai nationwide policy...

The no-fail policy seems to be that of the MoE and does not cover universities. They seem free to do what they want regarding failing students. I've also heard that story about Ram U being easy to enter but hard to graduate from - needs a lot of autonomy from the student to pass. MUIC does seem to have quite high standards, and tend to take very good students - two of mine have been accepted this year, with a few others requiring pre-college before entry. SIIT seems to accept just about anyone with a heart beat and a bank balance, but not many seem to end up graduating. The freshies are a nice little earner for the department , but the slow students are weeded out over time. If anyone has something good to say about Rangsit, I'd like to hear it. I had a student who graduated in engineering from there who could barely speak english and never known to pass a maths or science exam while at school lol

[timendres]

I hate to ask, is it the same with Medical Degrees here?

Have a bad feeling, it might be the case.

Cannot speak to the Medical Degrees here in Thailand, but my experience with Thai educated doctors has always been positive. That said, major international hospitals, such as BumRunGrad, prefer that their surgeons obtain primary or secondary degrees in the USA, as well as be certified to perform surgery in the USA.

The doctor from Samitivet Hospital who performed my surgery was educated and trained here in Thailand, but got some additional education in the USA. He was very talented and performed a surgery that I can only describe as world class perfection. He told me that his education here in Thailand was first class and definitely not substandard. But the USA education was for a very specific specialization for which the University was renowned.

[lostinisaan]

I hate to ask, is it the same with Medical Degrees here?

Have a bad feeling, it might be the case.

Cannot speak to the Medical Degrees here in Thailand, but my experience with Thai educated doctors has always been positive. That said, major international hospitals, such as BumRunGrad, prefer that their surgeons obtain primary or secondary degrees in the USA, as well as be certified to perform surgery in the USA.

The doctor from Samitivet Hospital who performed my surgery was educated and trained here in Thailand, but got some additional education in the USA. He was very talented and performed a surgery that I can only describe as world class perfection. He told me that his education here in Thailand was first class and definitely not substandard. But the USA education was for a very specific specialization for which the University was renowned.

He told me that his education here in Thailand was first class and definitely not substandard

Isn't that what all "World Class Standardized Schools" in this country tell the parents? Can't lose face, can you?

[thailiketoo]

It is quite clear that a lot of posters do not know what they are talking about and painting all government universities with the same brush. You will find that the open universities here, Ramkamhaeng and Sukhothai, have very high failure rates. Failure means failure, and you do not graduate. On the law course at Ram the failure rate is up near 70 percent. That is, 70 percent of students who sign up on the law degree course do not graduate in law. Just one example. So saying everyone will graduate is a crock of Sh*t.

Easy to spot the people who actually know something about Thai education like yourself. I got in trouble the first year I taught by reading all the stuff on Thai Visa and assuming grades were not important. My boss had a fit and almost fired me.

[lostinisaan]

Wasn't very long ago, when Thailand wanted to be become THE EDUCATIONAL HUB, besides of many others that didn't work out so far.

Once ASEAN pulls in, there'll be the absolute CHAOS.

And sooner, or later, also foreigners will lose face.

Edited December 7, 2014 by lostinisaan

[BritManToo]

The doctor from Samitivet Hospital who performed my surgery was educated and trained here in Thailand, but got some additional education in the USA. He was very talented and performed a surgery that I can only describe as world class perfection. He told me that his education here in Thailand was first class and definitely not substandard. But the USA education was for a very specific specialization for which the University was renowned.

Their education in the USA is as observers.

They don't get to actually treat patients or pick up a scalpel.

[cooked]

Well, the no-failure policy did its job! Here's how it works, they conduct the tests and grade them. That's how they know the failure rate, but all the students who fail will be given minimum grades, so they can advance to the next level and everyone can keep their face. Case closed.

If you're unhappy with the situation at your school/class because obviously the students are aware of what's going on and abuse it, I suggest looking for a school that lets you teach grade A students. Schools in Thailand often separate the good students from the bad ones, and the difference is quite dramatic.

I used to teach at a school that had 11 classes per level while I was there. The students in M1/1 and 1/2 were already waiting in line to hand in their homework when I got into the classroom, whereas the students in all classes above /5 needed 10 minutes on average to even notice that I had entered the room.

Needless to say, teaching them was an absolute waste of time. Out of the +50 students per class maybe 2 did their homework on average. Trying to change that got me into trouble and staying there would've meant to sacrifice my integrity, so I left.

Teaching in Thailand can be great fun or a nightmare, depending on the quality of your students. The best experience I've made by far so far was teaching Kindergarten. They're the easisest crowd you could possibly have and so much fun. The downside is, due to their young age you're limited to flashcards, games, songs etc. which can get boring after a few years because it's so repetitive. The alternative would be to teach adults because they're there because they want to study which makes a huge difference. Their skill level is usually also much higher, so you can do a lot more with them.

Years ago in the UK I discovered that people were downgraded so that a certain percentage failed every year at my university. Total went down from 120 student to 80. Sure wakes you up.

sent from phone using bih thumbs

Edited December 7, 2014 by cooked

[thailiketoo]

The doctor from Samitivet Hospital who performed my surgery was educated and trained here in Thailand, but got some additional education in the USA. He was very talented and performed a surgery that I can only describe as world class perfection. He told me that his education here in Thailand was first class and definitely not substandard. But the USA education was for a very specific specialization for which the University was renowned.

Their education in the USA is as observers.

They don't get to actually treat patients or pick up a scalpel.

You may want to check with the Thai Physician Association of America, Inc. Last I heard they had 1000 members.

[lostinisaan]

The doctor from Samitivet Hospital who performed my surgery was educated and trained here in Thailand, but got some additional education in the USA. He was very talented and performed a surgery that I can only describe as world class perfection. He told me that his education here in Thailand was first class and definitely not substandard. But the USA education was for a very specific specialization for which the University was renowned.

Their education in the USA is as observers.

They don't get to actually treat patients or pick up a scalpel.

They're not just "observers". I've met a real friendly and well educated doctor at Sapphasit hospital, Ubon Ratchathani and you'd be surprised how many good doctors had the good luck to practise at well- known hospitals in Germany, and other European countries.

Many of them have to "pick up" a scalpel, supervised by a more experienced senior consultant, as the "practical part" of becoming/being a doctor is very important.

I do not think it's much different in the States.

P.S. But to get back to the topic. It would definitely make perfect sense, if they'd send some of their guys who want to become English teachers to an English speaking country, let them study there for four years and when they come back,they speak a good English and do not lose face anymore.

The educational problems here are obvious. A very dubious education, no failure and the loss of face make the country to what it is.

Edited December 7, 2014 by lostinisaan

[lostinisaan]

The doctor from Samitivet Hospital who performed my surgery was educated and trained here in Thailand, but got some additional education in the USA. He was very talented and performed a surgery that I can only describe as world class perfection. He told me that his education here in Thailand was first class and definitely not substandard. But the USA education was for a very specific specialization for which the University was renowned.

Their education in the USA is as observers.

They don't get to actually treat patients or pick up a scalpel.

You may want to check with the Thai Physician Association of America, Inc. Last I heard they had 1000 members.

Here're some Thai doctors who practise in Germany. Only a few:https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.337378806300290.73486.336131426425028&type=1&comment_id=4188363&offset=0&total_comments=1

Edited December 7, 2014 by lostinisaan

[hdkane]

I worked for many years as a professor in the USA, and your experience here is the same as in the USA. To fail a student, the professor must provide an inordinate amount of documentation (well beyond simple test scores). Moreover, students may retake the class until they pass. Often, the professor is held accountable for the student's performance. For graduate schools, teaching is considered a joke by the students. In order to retain accreditation credentials, programs must demonstrate a substantial graduation rate. As a professor, I was told routinely to change grades. At the last university I worked, i was called out for identifying a student who had graduated with a bachelor's degree and was admitted to graduate school...yet she had an IQ that was on the order of 80. Essentially, her literacy was at the 6th grade level. She had been passed over and over again, with a C grade. She was admitted to graduate school with standardized test scores that were at the 4th percentile. In the USA, this is particularly true for Black students, where the threat of discrimination is compounded by the influence of affirmative action. This established pattern of academic evisceration has prompted scholar Charles Murray to declare that an undergraduate degree (even from places such as Harvard) is useless in informing an employer about the cognitive ability or academic skills of an individual. Sadly, it's true. A degree no longer tells us about the ability, interest, or potential of an individual. Thankfully, some professions (namely medicine) still rely on tests and boards to grant credentials.

[thailiketoo]

I worked for many years as a professor in the USA, and your experience here is the same as in the USA. To fail a student, the professor must provide an inordinate amount of documentation (well beyond simple test scores). Moreover, students may retake the class until they pass. Often, the professor is held accountable for the student's performance. For graduate schools, teaching is considered a joke by the students. In order to retain accreditation credentials, programs must demonstrate a substantial graduation rate. As a professor, I was told routinely to change grades. At the last university I worked, i was called out for identifying a student who had graduated with a bachelor's degree and was admitted to graduate school...yet she had an IQ that was on the order of 80. Essentially, her literacy was at the 6th grade level. She had been passed over and over again, with a C grade. She was admitted to graduate school with standardized test scores that were at the 4th percentile. In the USA, this is particularly true for Black students, where the threat of discrimination is compounded by the influence of affirmative action. This established pattern of academic evisceration has prompted scholar Charles Murray to declare that an undergraduate degree (even from places such as Harvard) is useless in informing an employer about the cognitive ability or academic skills of an individual. Sadly, it's true. A degree no longer tells us about the ability, interest, or potential of an individual. Thankfully, some professions (namely medicine) still rely on tests and boards to grant credentials.

What schools did you work at as a professor in the USA where you were told to change grades? Sorry but I think you are not telling the truth.

[lostinisaan]

I worked for many years as a professor in the USA, and your experience here is the same as in the USA. To fail a student, the professor must provide an inordinate amount of documentation (well beyond simple test scores). Moreover, students may retake the class until they pass. Often, the professor is held accountable for the student's performance. For graduate schools, teaching is considered a joke by the students. In order to retain accreditation credentials, programs must demonstrate a substantial graduation rate. As a professor, I was told routinely to change grades. At the last university I worked, i was called out for identifying a student who had graduated with a bachelor's degree and was admitted to graduate school...yet she had an IQ that was on the order of 80. Essentially, her literacy was at the 6th grade level. She had been passed over and over again, with a C grade. She was admitted to graduate school with standardized test scores that were at the 4th percentile. In the USA, this is particularly true for Black students, where the threat of discrimination is compounded by the influence of affirmative action. This established pattern of academic evisceration has prompted scholar Charles Murray to declare that an undergraduate degree (even from places such as Harvard) is useless in informing an employer about the cognitive ability or academic skills of an individual. Sadly, it's true. A degree no longer tells us about the ability, interest, or potential of an individual. Thankfully, some professions (namely medicine) still rely on tests and boards to grant credentials.

What schools did you work at as a professor in the USA where you were told to change grades? Sorry but I think you are not telling the truth.

Let's put it this way. It would be pretty much weird if he'd "just made this story up".