Surge of reported police harassment suggests campaign targeting tourists, expats

[JAG]

I don't discount your account, or even that of being forced to drink 4 liters of water (though not sure possible), and I am not saying justifiable in any situation... Just saying this thread is exaggerating what is, and mostly is motivated by those who wish to harm the current government, which i admit I support....

Criticising the corrupt police is not criticising the current government. The police have always been supporters of former PM Thaksin and they were allowed a free reign with corruption. The current PM shut down one of the their main sources of corruption money, a huge number of massage parlours that were illegally operating in the Suhkumvit area. With a major source of their money being taken from them, and their former patron unlikely to return anytime soon, they have turned to a new source of corruption that is less likely to attract the attention of the government. This is why they are now extorting large numbers of foreigners, both tourists and expats, to replace the money that was cut off from them by the anti corruption drive of the current government. The police are suffering under the current government, and have turned to harassing foreigners now that their massage parlours, gambling dens, etc are being shut down.

This government is in conflict with the police, trying to root out lackeys of former PM Thaksin and reduce corruption. It is misguided to defend them, they are corrupt and need to be cleaned out, and hopefully this government will be successful.

I thought that the massage parlours were only closed for one night?

Mind you maybe that closure was part of the process of diverting the tea money away from the police to another agency - green is the new brown?

Could explain things couldn't it?

[EyesWideOpen]

Maybe we are all panicking at this issue a bit. Instead of worrying so much,

perhaps we should sit back and think about odds. So a good analogy would

be the wildebeests ( tourists) and the Nile crocodiles ( police). Sure a few

wildebeests get eaten, but by and large most of them get through. So next

time you are walking along Sukumvit and spy some police in front of you

, don't worry, maybe you will get through, as they cannot stop everybody..... :-)

[H1w4yR1da]

The more the police do to protect the innocent then all for the better

Thai police??

[The Deerhunter]

Lived in Udon 2 years..Never been stopped by police for anything..Stopped once in the car for a license check. Showed It, and that was that. Just had a week in Chiang Mai..Same. Is this only a Bangkok thing? Don't see any complaints from residents of Phuket, Pattaya, Issarn etc.

It is not even a Bangkok thing. It is apparently just a Thonglor Police District thing. Don't go down around Asok, Cowboy etc. Like some other posters I am sure this a has something to do with replacing lost income budget from the happy-ending massage parlours but I have not worked out the complete chain of dynamics. But "Follow the money" is the solution, somehow.

Question: Does anyone know what are the approximate boundaries of the above "District? How far up towards Soi 4 is that Policing district boundary?

Hmm! I wonder if Fred F. has taken to parading up & down 19-23 in his Sunday best, trying to confirm that the the RTP trash collection program only targets scruffs & not nice people?

[alocacoc]

Lived in Udon 2 years..Never been stopped by police for anything..Stopped once in the car for a license check. Showed It, and that was that. Just had a week in Chiang Mai..Same. Is this only a Bangkok thing? Don't see any complaints from residents of Phuket, Pattaya, Issarn etc.

It is not even a Bangkok thing. It is apparently just a Thonglor Police District thing. Don't go down around Asok, Cowboy etc.

This could spread to other areas or other cities like Pattaya in no-time. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

[mngmn]

Lived in Udon 2 years..Never been stopped by police for anything..Stopped once in the car for a license check. Showed It, and that was that. Just had a week in Chiang Mai..Same. Is this only a Bangkok thing? Don't see any complaints from residents of Phuket, Pattaya, Issarn etc.

It is not even a Bangkok thing. It is apparently just a Thonglor Police District thing. Don't go down around Asok, Cowboy etc.

This could spread to other areas or other cities like Pattaya in no-time. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

Been inside my condo all day. No cops harassed me here so best if everyone comes around (bring your own beer though).

[mngmn]

Maybe we are all panicking at this issue a bit. Instead of worrying so much,

perhaps we should sit back and think about odds. So a good analogy would

be the wildebeests ( tourists) and the Nile crocodiles ( police). Sure a few

wildebeests get eaten, but by and large most of them get through. So next

time you are walking along Sukumvit and spy some police in front of you

, don't worry, maybe you will get through, as they cannot stop everybody..... :-)

Your post does very little to reassure me but it will be nice to be a wildebeest rather than a buffalo!

[Thian]

Obviously the Thonglor police lost their income dued by the army. Somebody is gonna pay for that and they will have a white skin i guess. I won't go there, have some vouchers for dinners in the 5* hotels but now i understand why my businesspartners gave them to me.

[mngmn]

Obviously the Thonglor police lost their income dued by the army. Somebody is gonna pay for that and they will have a white skin i guess. I won't go there, have some vouchers for dinners in the 5* hotels but now i understand why my businesspartners gave them to me.

But you could use the vouchers to bribe the cops.

What self respecting Thai cop would pass up the chance to take one of the mia nois or possibly a favourite gik to dinner at a 5 star hotel.

[The Deerhunter]

I was just saying to my partner today that the police don't have to be corrupt to make good money. There is so many things happening right in front of them each and everyday they could probably rack up a lot more money doing the right thing. Just as an example how much could they make for fining people not wearing helmets (passenger included), driving on the wrong side of the road, crossing double lines, cutting corners, driving and riding dangerously, unroadworthy vehicles, not stopping at pedestrian crossings, not stopping at red lights, failure to indicate, driving with un-care due and attention and the list goes on and on. If they cracked down on this they would make much much more money and make the road much much safer as well.

I used this example to point out to my partner just how much could be made each time we saw something on our short drive. In less than 10min, I could have racked up close to 20,000 baht without doing anything other than fining those actually doing something wrong.

Yes. BUT! Issuing proper trafficets only enriches the exchequer. Taking cash fines gives the cop a bit of extra cash which he need because Police wages are low. Passed back up the chain it gives his sergeant money for his meer noi to go to the hairdresser. Further up, it gives the lieutenant something to pay back the loan he had to get to buy his lieutenantship. Each Sergeant has numerous policemen bringing the cash back. Each Lieutenant has several sergeants "reporting" to him & passing money up. Each Captain has numerous lieutenants passing money back up the chain. This was never about making Thailand a better place. It was and is always about moving vast amounts of cash up through the system with everyone clipping the ticket as it goes past. And it is immediate cash money, not counted as wages & not taxed. This runs into billions of baht a year in some regions. This exact scenario has been explained many times on these pages.

[hughben]

If these police aren't real police with powers of arrest, or even if they are real but are right at the bottom of the police food chain, then what happens if you just keep walking away when they approach you? Are they really going to chase after you? Are these the type of police with guns who actually look like police or are they those scruffy, sweaty types with no guns....sort of turds on legs that just sit by the road all day?

This thread has degenerated into mostly useless bickering. We need strategy, not useless bickering.

The litter goons who as some reports suggest are also involved in some shakedowns, don't have guns.

Only real police have guns.

I have no idea what the laws are with walking away from the goons with no guns.

I would assume it is totally illegal them even asking to search people.

I wonder what their legal status is with littering. Could people just walk off? Do they call the real police to back them up?

Our company moved all meetings to Hongkong now, we want to feel safe on the streets. This is going to cost Thailand a lot of money/reputation.

You should inform the place you usually book for your meetings and let them know why you have moved all meetings to HK.

The more the big players see business lost, the more chance these goons will have to stop their searches.

[brewsterbudgen]

Obviously the Thonglor police lost their income dued by the army. Somebody is gonna pay for that and they will have a white skin i guess. I won't go there, have some vouchers for dinners in the 5* hotels but now i understand why my businesspartners gave them to me.

Except this has been going on for years, under all political regimes and long before the army took over.

[fey]

You can also private message the hotel directors/manager.

Dear Hotel Director,

We are apprehensive to take our holiday to Thailand this year due to the reports of police harassing tourists, particularily in the Sukhumvit area.

Here is a link to the discussion.

http://www.thaivisa....ourists-expats/

Please,can you advise us on the situation?

1. Advice about how to deal with random body searches & urine tests on the street outside your hotel?

2. Does the hotel have an attorney we can contact when we are being harassed by Thai Police?

3. Should we cancel our trip?

Facebook pages of Sukhumvit Hotels impacted by Police harassment.

Rembrandt Hotel:

https://www.facebook.com/rembrandtbkk

Windsor Hotel:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Winsor-Suite-Hotel/121376954601579?rf=349265071852836

Majestic Grand,

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Majestic-Grande-Hotel/147151600798

Novotel,

https://www.facebook.com/novotelbangkokploenchits

S15,

https://www.facebook.com/pages/S15-Sukhumvit-Hotel/144041808942680

Citidines, Soi 11

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Citadines-Sukhumvit-11-Bangkok/117195575022557?rf=209048619205421

Citidines Soi 16,

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Citadines-Sukhumvit-16/116245621788329?rf=121824064602381

Best Western Soi 20,

https://www.facebook.com/bestwesternplusat20sukhumvit

Park Plaze,

Sofitel,

https://www.facebook.com/SofitelBKKSukhumvit?ref=br_tf

Raddison,

https://www.facebook.com/RadissonSuitesBangkokSukhumvitSoi13

Westin Hotel,

https://www.facebook.com/WestinBangkok

S33 Hotel,

https://www.facebook.com/S33Hotel

Marriott,

https://www.facebook.com/MarriottSukhumvit?rf=481050825279825

Holiday Inn Sukhumvit 22

https://www.facebook.com/Holidayinnbangkoksukhumvit

[DaffyDuck]

Lived in Udon 2 years..Never been stopped by police for anything..Stopped once in the car for a license check. Showed It, and that was that. Just had a week in Chiang Mai..Same. Is this only a Bangkok thing? Don't see any complaints from residents of Phuket, Pattaya, Issarn etc.

It is not even a Bangkok thing. It is apparently just a Thonglor Police District thing. Don't go down around Asok, Cowboy etc.

This could spread to other areas or other cities like Pattaya in no-time. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

No, it doesn't / won't. This has been a Thonglor police scam for many, many years (in various guises) - long preceding anything the govt has done. They pull their scams, score their money, and then back off once it gets too much visibility, only to return in a little bit either with the same scam, or with a variation.

Much ado about nothing.

[DaffyDuck]

Yes but they did not overthrow the elected government. And apart from two occasions over 40 years ago they did not kill their own people. Neither did I! Try to think things through a bit before your knee jerk comments and use of insults. It's not very clever.

How about concentrating on the relevant comment from siampolee, instead of pretending to ignore them:

"No matter what the status you perceive the current Prime Minister to be he seems to be trying to clean up some of the corruption that has flourished without restraint over the recent years and indeed many years before"

Prayuth has achieved more in the months that he has been in charge, than prior governments, put together, in decades.

[tonbridgebrit]

Come on junta. Either go ahead and say that you don't want sex tourists in Bangkok, and that's why you're giving out orders for the harrasment of foreigners in that area. OR, those police officers in that area are trying to make up for their reduced income, and in that case, well, you can crackdown hard on the system. You've got the ability to ban all demonstrations, surely, removing people who are damaging tourism in Bangkok is no big deal ??

[BigMountain]

Yes but they did not overthrow the elected government. And apart from two occasions over 40 years ago they did not kill their own people. Neither did I! Try to think things through a bit before your knee jerk comments and use of insults. It's not very clever.

How about concentrating on the relevant comment from siampolee, instead of pretending to ignore them: "No matter what the status you perceive the current Prime Minister to be he seems to be trying to clean up some of the corruption that has flourished without restraint over the recent years and indeed many years before"

Prayuth has achieved more in the months that he has been in charge, than prior governments, put together, in decades.

Off topic...but what specifically has he done "in the months he has been charge"? thats better than "prior governments, put together, in decades"? You can't make a statement like that on this forum without evidence.

I was stopped by the Thonglor police for a urine check 2 years ago. I don't believe they had anything to check it with and they were just trying to shake me up, but I didn't give them a single baht and they got bored of me after a while and let me go. Regardless, I heard of the military checking in on the seedy massage joints around their jurisdiction and I agree that the increase in police shake-ups is a way to compensate for the loss of revenue. Corruption to the core. Glad I moved the business elsewhere....good luck

[DaffyDuck]

Come on junta. Either go ahead and say that you don't want sex tourists in Bangkok, and that's why you're giving out orders for the harrasment of foreigners in that area. OR, those police officers in that area are trying to make up for their reduced income, and in that case, well, you can crackdown hard on the system. You've got the ability to ban all demonstrations, surely, removing people who are damaging tourism in Bangkok is no big deal ??

Continuing to lie and fabricate? The junta has nothing to do with what Thonglor police are doing - or was the Junta using their time machine to order Thonglor police to do the same thing years ago? I guess that's what it must be.

Your agenda tonbridgebrit, is obviously transparent - it's unfortunate that you feel it can only be advanced by lies and misrepresentations.

[DaffyDuck]

Off topic...but what specifically has he done "in the months he has been charge"? thats better than "prior governments, put together, in decades"? You can't make a statement like that on this forum without evidence.

You answered it yourself:

"Regardless, I heard of the military checking in on the seedy massage joints around their jurisdiction" - the military shut down the tea money scam.

That's just one of the things.

- did you miss the recent arrests for corruption that went all the way to the CIB chief?

- cleaned up encroaching business' on various beaches, resulting in clean beaches the likes of which weren't seen in decades

- cracked down on BKK taxis

- eliminated many crony positions within the police across Thailand.

- replaced crony positions in places like Thai Airways, with actual businessmen, now tasked with turning Thai around towards profitability.

- paid farmers the subsidy money that they were only promised, and never received, under Yingluk.

There's plenty more - the current brunt is towards cracking down on corruption and crime within the police. Not an easy job due to how pervasive it is (just ask Tim "snarky" Ward), but he's making progress.

[tonbridgebrit]

Come on junta. Either go ahead and say that you don't want sex tourists in Bangkok, and that's why you're giving out orders for the harrasment of foreigners in that area. OR, those police officers in that area are trying to make up for their reduced income, and in that case, well, you can crackdown hard on the system. You've got the ability to ban all demonstrations, surely, removing people who are damaging tourism in Bangkok is no big deal ??

Continuing to lie and fabricate? The junta has nothing to do with what Thonglor police are doing - or was the Junta using their time machine to order Thonglor police to do the same thing years ago? I guess that's what it must be.

Your agenda tonbridgebrit, is obviously transparent - it's unfortunate that you feel it can only be advanced by lies and misrepresentations.

Daffyduck, what are you on about ??

I'm not saying that it's the junta's fault that the harassment is going on in Bangkok ! I'm saying that if it is the case that this is all a big scam, then the junta should crackdown hard on the scammers. Surely, we all agree with that ?

Some people do feel though, what we're actually seeing is, is that the Thais want to see most of the sex tourists removed from Bangkok (and put into Pattaya). And this harrasment of tourists in that area is part of the bigger plan to remove sex tourists from Bangkok. They might be wrong or might be right, I certainly don't protest against the Thais if they want to move sex tourism out of Bangkok. It's their country and their freedom of choice.

[berybert]

Walked home from Phrom Phong tonight to Thong Lor. My story.... Walked past the no entry plastic tape (yet again) then saw a conned off road block. 6/7 Cops directing traffic.

As I walked past I mentioned to the cops ( VIA POINTING ) There where 4 cars parked on the pavement, shoulders shrugged. Bit futher down the road 2 cops I guess meant to pull the cars in.

I kinda took the piss asking what was going on. Both asked where I was from. I told both I had come from the pub. I made a point of shaking both hands and slapping both shoulders.

Moral of my story.................... Not sure there is one, other than be a man and grow a pair.

[DaffyDuck]

Daffyduck, what are you on about ??

Calling you out on your agenda.

I'm not saying that it's the junta's fault that the harassment is going on in Bangkok !

That's exactly what you are implying, in your passive-aggressive manner, by implying that it is the junta's fault, or that they are complicit, by doing nothing. Now you're just backpedaling

I'm saying that if it is the case that this is all a big scam, then the junta should crackdown hard on the scammers. Surely, we all agree with that ?

I would argue that Prayuth's government has both bigger issues to deal with and bigger fish to fry, none of which I will discuss here.

The fact that you immediately blocked off any debate of salient issues via PM is enough of an indicator that you are only interested in publicly smearing the current government every chance you have, ie your agenda.

Some people do feel though, what we're actually seeing is, is that the Thais want to see most of the sex tourists removed from Bangkok (and put into Pattaya). And this harrasment of tourists in that area is part of the bigger plan to remove sex tourists from Bangkok. They might be wrong or might be right, I certainly don't protest against the Thais if they want to move sex tourism out of Bangkok. It's their country and their freedom of choice.

The same arm-waving also to Pattaya in appropriate threads, with the same chicken little attitudes announcing that the govt (or whatever bogeyman) wants to shut do all sex tourism in Pattaya - again, rumors and speculations that have gone on for at least a decade back.

Considering some of the elements that sex tourism attracts, I can't fault the Thais if they did want to do that - except that's not going on. The majority of the crackdowns that are happening is that laws are being enforced more strictly that hadn't been previously enforced (ie visa abuses), which are interpreted incorrectly by those feeling entitled to break laws or abuse systems.

So, I guess we can add one more thing to Prayuth's achievements (take note, BigMountain) - an emphasis on actually enforcing existing laws on the books, without compromises. Something we can all agree on, can't we (including that 'democratic) governments that came before did absolutely nothing in that regard, something else we can agree on).

[Kooweerup]

Lived in Udon 2 years..Never been stopped by police for anything..Stopped once in the car for a license check. Showed It, and that was that. Just had a week in Chiang Mai..Same. Is this only a Bangkok thing? Don't see any complaints from residents of Phuket, Pattaya, Issarn etc.

It is not even a Bangkok thing. It is apparently just a Thonglor Police District thing. Don't go down around Asok, Cowboy etc.

This could spread to other areas or other cities like Pattaya in no-time. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

Just saw it on the Aussie news and they open with the line of shakedown in "Thailand" not Bangkok. So this scam is tarnishing the whole of Thailand even if it is just isolated to a couple of police on one corner. If the world knows about it why doesn't the dear leader, has he put his ear plugs in because its only foreigners? Why haven't these criminals been arrested?

[berybert]

Lived in Udon 2 years..Never been stopped by police for anything..Stopped once in the car for a license check. Showed It, and that was that. Just had a week in Chiang Mai..Same. Is this only a Bangkok thing? Don't see any complaints from residents of Phuket, Pattaya, Issarn etc.

It is not even a Bangkok thing. It is apparently just a Thonglor Police District thing. Don't go down around Asok, Cowboy etc.

This could spread to other areas or other cities like Pattaya in no-time. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

Just saw it on the Aussie news and they open with the line of shakedown in "Thailand" not Bangkok. So this scam is tarnishing the whole of Thailand even if it is just isolated to a couple of police on one corner. If the world knows about it why doesn't the dear leader, has he put his ear plugs in because its only foreigners? Why haven't these criminals been arrested?

Hey if a cop says you are being done for drugs, and you aint tell them to <deleted> off.... Easy to say for sure. But there will be another mug along in a minute.

[Kooweerup]

Obviously the Thonglor police lost their income dued by the army. Somebody is gonna pay for that and they will have a white skin i guess. I won't go there, have some vouchers for dinners in the 5* hotels but now i understand why my businesspartners gave them to me.

Except this has been going on for years, under all political regimes and long before the army took over.

The country is under martial Law, that makes the Junta responsible for law and order. By ignoring a crime that even people on here know that has been going on for decades makes them responsible for every single tourist that scammed and molested by these thugs since they took over. Send the army in to arrest the police before Thailand slips further down the gurgler with bad publicity. Your Hiso quality tourists with fat wallets aren't going to come whilst this sort of thing is going on.

The general and his gang kidnapped the baby so they are now responsible 100% for it and cant blame anyone else. Stopping this sort this sort of thing should have more priority than banning happy endings.

[berybert]

Obviously the Thonglor police lost their income dued by the army. Somebody is gonna pay for that and they will have a white skin i guess. I won't go there, have some vouchers for dinners in the 5* hotels but now i understand why my businesspartners gave them to me.

Except this has been going on for years, under all political regimes and long before the army took over.

The country is under martial Law, that makes the Junta responsible for law and order. By ignoring a crime that even people on here know that has been going on for decades makes them responsible for every single tourist that scammed and molested by these thugs since they took over. Send the army in to arrest the police before Thailand slips further down the gurgler with bad publicity. Your Hiso quality tourists with fat wallets aren't going to come whilst this sort of thing is going on.

The general and his gang kidnapped the baby so they are now responsible 100% for it and cant blame anyone else. Stopping this sort this sort of thing should have more priority than banning happy endings.

or else you can have a laugh and joke with the coppers and carry on with your life.

[DaffyDuck]

Here we go again, finger-pointing and naive misrepresentations. You newbies really should inform yourselves a bit better as to what is going on. There's bigger issues and bigger fish to fry than a handful of tourists being frisked.

Those "hiso quality tourists" that you speak of won't be found on Sukhumwit - they are happily enjoying Thailand in all inclusive resorts, or safely ensconced in their 5-star hotels.

[DaffyDuck]

or else you can have a laugh and joke with the coppers and carry on with your life.

Exactly.

+1

[englishoak]

or else you can have a laugh and joke with the coppers and carry on with your life.

Exactly.

+1

Your assuming people find it funny to be stopped harassed searched or taken for a urine test on holiday ? I think most would not.

If you live here and know what the cops get upto you may well shrug it off or make a joke of it but as a tourist not having a clue about the country and expecting a LOS relaxed atmosphere etc I doubt that would include stop and search being an expected part of the Thai experience. Youd feel intimidated at least and probably disgusted if scammed by the end of it.

When im on holiday minding my own business I wouldnt think it a joke to be stopped and harassed by the police if doing nothing wrong and I certainly wouldnt be back if I felt intimidated or scammed.

[Fred Flinstone]

Whilst i admit being searched by third world Police would be of some concern if reports they have planted drugs is correct.

My experience with just showing my ID was smooth and Polite.

The area they are conducting such raids is said to be in the Vice regions which may imply their searches are targeted to those who the authorities feel might carry contraband.

Regardless of if their intent is good or evil , too many reports have surfaced for them to not be effected by this with tourism.

Terminology like "Farang " is said often with a venomous strain of voice in a xenophobic manner.

You can not have your cake and eat it.

If you wish to have westerner money be more polite and less intrusive .

Why people still bother going there is their own business.

I won't support a military take over or help them staying in power with my tourist dollars.

So i boycott it until freedom of speech and democracy is returned.

But as i previously said this might be the beginning of a very clear nationalistic anti westerner push.

Designed to isolate Thais and stir up national vigour and pride and see outsiders as something less than their leaders.

Who happen to be behind such pushes