Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[IslandLover]

fritzzz25, on 12 Dec 2014 - 01:19, said:

<respectfully snipped>

It is quite apparent JD that you have no investigational experience into crimes. You just believe what the RTP has said, and take it as gospel.

Another excellent post but I would question your second sentence above. I don't think he believes everything the RTP has said and takes it as gospel, he seems too intelligent for that. No, I suspect he has an agenda to protect someone or something, whether it be a person or "vested interests".

[boomerangutang]

Spooked of what boomerangutang? Of you? You continue to show yourself full of hubris with your baseless accusations; you can posture as much as you like it won't cover for the inadequacies of your arguments or the lack of evidence to support them.

You're spooked because you know down deep that the Headman's people should be prime suspects, and if RTP were not beholden to the Headman and his money, they would be.. By every indication you're desperately shielding the Headman's people and are as spooked as jdinasia and JTJ that Nomsod will be re-designated as a prime suspect (as well as some others, like Mon, you're protecting). I'll list once more some of the reasons. I can call it 'evidence' whereas you can continue to cry it's not. But do us all a favor, and quit repeating the same question ad nauseum. It shows you as, well.... spooked.

>>> CCTV from island appears to show Nomsod, to tens of thousands of people who have seen it. For the first week of the investigation, cops thought it showed Mon. The video has no resemblance to the scapegoats.

>>> Nomsod hid from police for a week. He got a haircut (to distance himself from the video images). His alibi is soggier than a Saltine in a toilet bowl

>>> He refused to get DNA tested until weeks later, when he was assured by Cops it wouldn't match. Officials wouldn't tamper with DNA would they? ha ha ha.

It's not just Nomsod, it's his uncle and their mafia-wannabe tough-guy friends, at least one of whom is a cop (with Mon, the morning after) - who should be suspects. Cops are even more off-limits to investigators than the Headman's people, if that's possible. Oh, but cops never do anything criminal in Thailand, do they?

Ok, jdinasia wants to comment on someone else's supposition. Well let's expand upon that a bit: Let's say several drug-crazed thugs from the bar do the murders, but (according to the scenario painted by lildragon) the Burmese kids are told to clean it up. From jdinasia's perspective, it makes the Burmese guilty, but no mention of the thugs who caused the deaths, as if they're excused.

Oh, you know deep down what I believe... You know nothing, and continue to conflate opinion with facts and speculation with evidence.

That is your "evidence"? It's laughable, or it would if it wouldn't be that you'd like to send someone to a meeting with an executioner to satisfy your prejudices.

-"CCTV from the island appears to show..." appears to show two men walking, period. There is nothing to validate any match between Nomsod's CCTV footage and the one in Koh Tao, that people that let their egos dictate what they see think so is not evidence. But, by all means, go to the trial with your evidence and see how it flies. I assume you have already contacted the defense team, haven't you?

-"Nomsod hid from police for a week. He got a haircut (to distance himself from the video images)", speculation again, you have no idea what he did, when he did it and why he did it. First you formed a conclusion, then you go around picking up "facts" to support it.

-"He refused to get DNA tested until weeks later, when he was assured by Cops it wouldn't match. Officials wouldn't tamper with DNA would they? ha ha ha." This "evidence" is 100% speculation again, you don't get it, do you? Just because you think make something up it doesn't become a fact or evidence, that you continue to make the same mistake over, and over, and over again only proves that you are incapable of determining facts, yet you believe you have cracked the case.

It sounds like you don't agree. Well, that's what trials are for. Luckily for you, Nomsod and Mon are not longer suspects, but that doesn't stop you from getting spooked and shrill when someone comes along with reasons why they should be.

You're like the kid who gets caught raiding the cookie jar, who has cookie crumbs all over his mouth and t-shirt. Mom catches him, but the kid says, "where's your evidence?" Do you have CCTV footage? Do you have fingerprint evidence? Who took the fingerprints? How do you know those brown crumbs around my mouth are from a cookie? Did you have them forensically tested?

[JLCrab]

From Boomerangutang 30OCT 2014:

Most of us (other than JTJ and JD) are hoping the Brit experts will clear things up. However, that could be a tall order because the Thai PM has explicitly hamstrung them by insisting they be no more than 'observers.'

I think the Brits will take the gentlemanly/diplomatic way out, and not say anything which will enrage their hosts. Afterwards, when they get to Beefeater Land, one will write a very interesting book about his all-expenses-paid trip to Thailand. I'd like to co-author it (I've had a dozen books published).

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/772375-koh-tao-murders-influential-island-figure-vows-to-clear-his-sons-name/page-20#entry8606612

Does the offer still stand?

[Fat Haggis]

Sorry but you are incorrect. There are defendants.

Your claims to being a cop are only that, claims on the Internet.

Do, however, feel free to publish the details of this case that the police have which have not been published to date. ( in other words, you don't know)

Yep, they are claims. Claims I can back up. Feel free to come meet me for a drink in BKK in two weeks. I will show you. Bring all your credentials along too.

I will also have a court designated forensic crime scene investigator along with me who has worked in excess of 30 homicides and given expert court testimony on those cases.

Defendants, accused, perpetrators - semantics. -

There's more chance of the Dalia Lama turning up for a drink. Besides JD only associates in circles that are within his comfort zone, that being senior RTA/RTP officers clubs ?

A great post and hardly surprising JD makes a claim you're not who you say you are, pot and kettle springs to mind.

JD sounds like a former Mid to high ranking ex Military officer as in Capt- full bird Colonel, probably ex USMilitary too, you don't mix with Thai officers without having connections and common ground, he's protecting the establishment in the majority of his posts.

He is a master of deflection as you have seen here by him calling you out on this forum, and yet as far as most posters would probably have the opinion that he's just another nobody in Thailand who thinks he's a " somebody"

?

[fritzzz25]

Sorry but you are incorrect. There are defendants.

Your claims to being a cop are only that, claims on the Internet.

Do, however, feel free to publish the details of this case that the police have which have not been published to date. ( in other words, you don't know)

Yep, they are claims. Claims I can back up. Feel free to come meet me for a drink in BKK in two weeks. I will show you. Bring all your credentials along too.

I will also have a court designated forensic crime scene investigator along with me who has worked in excess of 30 homicides and given expert court testimony on those cases.

Defendants, accused, perpetrators - semantics. -

There's more chance of the Dalia Lama turning up for a drink. Besides JD only associates in circles that are within his comfort zone, that being senior RTA/RTP officers clubs ?

A great post and hardly surprising JD makes a claim you're not who you say you are, pot and kettle springs to mind.

JD sounds like a former Mid to high ranking ex Military officer as in Capt- full bird Colonel, probably ex USMilitary too, you don't mix with Thai officers without having connections and common ground, he's protecting the establishment in the majority of his posts.

He is a master of deflection as you have seen here by him calling you out on this forum, and yet as far as most posters would probably have the opinion that he's just another nobody in Thailand who thinks he's a " somebody"

?

I have actually perused some of his over 20,000 posts on here, and it is quite amazing the things that he has revealed about himself. But I guess that is just me pretending to be one of the "Hardy Boys".......

[AleG]

Stalking, witch-hunting, slander... you guys are doing a fantastic job at discrediting yourselves.

[falangjim]

Quote was horribly manipulated in Thai papers practically condemning them to guilt before the trail has even started. Again, Thailand shows its true colors in railroading these two innocent men.

[Fat Haggis]

Stalking, witch-hunting, slander... you guys are doing a fantastic job at discrediting yourselves.

Slander?

Yes JD called into question Fritzz credentials that's slanderous indeed

Now go and look up Due Diligence!!

Investigating someone's background after all their claims isn't stalking, or slanderous or witch hunting it's what any curious and investigative person would do.

But feel free to keep believing all that your spoon fed of anyone's doing a good job at discrediting themselves it's certain trio who to the observant here see a pattern ?

But crack on believing what you want, that's your prerogative as it is everyone else's.

[greenchair]

When i was beaten by a thai woman and her husband i told the police i thought,but was not sure the man held my arm while she hit me. I could not see as my head was down. The 2 thai had everything on video but refused to give to the police.

The man denied holding my arm. I said to police i do not have evidence that he held my arm.

The police say his withholding of the video to prove his innocence was evidence of his guilt. I and the police won.

The fact that ac will not release all video to police speaks a thousand words.

[thailandchilli]

Koh Tao cctv evidence That disappeared a long time ago. Even the remaining scant clips are seemingly ignored. Prime suspect found clearly running away from the scene at the right time, phone in hand in another clip and RTP claiming he's wearing Davids shorts! Clearly somebody walking in front of this suspect in another clip. Result, zero, no identification of the running man

RTP's early statement on why they did not get the remaining cctv.............it does not belong to us so we have no right to ask for it

One of the statements from the RTP at the start of this investigation that will never go away, where they admitted that Thai's had attempted to destroy evidence and give false information to protect the real killers.

Says it all

But hey, take it to trial let the lynch mob rule................disregard the calls for a fair and transparent trial from the victims families, the defense team and a growing number of respected Human rights organizations. Disregard credible statements from the defense team stating that witness's are to scared to come forward, disregard allegations of police attempting to buy witness's and then giving them a beating when they refuse.

I wonder why some on here fail to add the fair and transparent to their constant calls to take it to trial? Perhaps the reason being that to ensure a fair and transparent trial you then need to actually question and be critical of the investigation, the evidence provided and the Thai judicial system. They have proved beyond doubt that it is impossible for them to do that and so logically cant actually add the words fair and transparent to their calls for a trial.

[PaPiPuPePo]

-----

Powerful post.

These families appear to not care who goes down for this, just that someone does.

Not wishing to sound insensitive but that is the feeling I got when I read the families' statements.

(Fritzzz25's awesome and sorely needed post edited out for brevity's sake).

Yes, I'm so glad to have someone with actual LE experience weigh in on this, not just because what he says supports what many of us think.

As to IL's comment, I didn't want to wade into this earlier, but it's not uncommon for the families of murder victims to act and feel as IL wrote in italics; one can read about innocent men in the US who were executed and the victim's family refused to accept obvious exculpatory evidence. I'm not laying blame because who can judge without being in that position, but the fact remains that those people gloating over the statement made by David's family are either unaware of choosing to ignore this phenomenon.

[DennisF]

Been trying to stay away from this thread but it has got really silly.

Thank you Isloandlover for such a great breakdown and post.

Facts:

The family statements are neutral, in the main, saying only what we already know.

What they have said, is clear, although I am surprised that they have appointed JTJ as their

Translator, interpreter and apparent guru.

Day and night he has been posting, what he says, is

what the family meant, because, to him, it is obvious.

Well, guess what, supercilious arrogance does not cut it.

So best he shuts up and sticks toi FACTS, not supposition and interpretation.

I have noticed also that the apologists have attracted a couple of lowly gang members ( or perhaps alter egos) to assist their campaign of disinformation.

I can happily now report Nomsod was 100% on the island that night.

How do I know and what evidence do I have??

I have 2 media interviews from his dear doting daddy that categorically states his son has NOT run

away, he is returning to university. Now as headman of the island and a daddy I have to believe him, he must KNOW where his son is. He really should have contacted Nomsods girlfriend though, she was frantically posting not seeing her beau for 2 or 3 days and, they are inseparable, allegedly.

Should have a word with members of the family too who were posting they were with Nomsod in Bangkok on the day of the murder and making daddy look like he tells porkies. Mind you, as the poster was checked in in Chonburi when she was in Bangkok, its easy to get confused.

Early police chief who was moved (allegedly by prior arrangement) to be replaced by Supreme commander Nothaicoulddothis has been labelled by our frantic posting gaggle of apologists as having made many mistakes yet, he still took up a promotion. So it follows that a new area now has, by their statements, an incompetent and mistake prone leader. Wow, that bodes well for his new subordinates.

My own feeling is he was doing a fine job at the start but appears to have succumbed to 30 pieces of silver, metaphorically speaking.

Moving on to the British police, who I still have faith in, I am uplifted emotionally to notice how the apologists have recognised their worth and given them post Thailand promotions. For weeks they banged on about how they were just observers and referred to them as such. SUDDENLY, in their new (premature) gloating I told you so posts, they have been accorded the heady heights of investigators. I trust their letter of thanks is on its way to JTJ et al.

Just for information, neither the British or the Burmese authorities have made any statements about satisfaction or otherwise despite the RTP BS that keeps being spouted as they are confident in the RTP investigation.

Absolute cr”p, this is not correct UK terminology nor will they be making statements of that nature at this time that they would suspect would be made public.

A quick mention of the spacebook page. Until recently it has been a great source of information, unfortunately, the plot seems to have been mislaid, hopefully temporarily.

Still some good stuff on there but it is turning into a shrine for the admins ego and a place of worship for his unquestioning disciples.

On saying that, he has never offred up any CT, merely asking questions about information he has, so most things still relevant.

Lastly, the failure of the RTP and prosecuting lawyers to allow the defence team proper and reasonable access to evidence and witnesses or allowing a reasonable time frame to prepare a defence.

So, regardless of the thousands of posts, the feelings of the majority here, it has all been in vain. Whether the B2 did it or not, they have been hung out to dry and nobody can do a damn thing about it. All hopes now rest with human rights groups.

The investigation was shoddy and apparently corrupt and the trial is on the same railtracks.

[Willy Eckerslike]

Good post Dennis, I would just like to add to your sentence.................................. " All hopes now rest with human rights groups"

the fact that one of the family's (the Millers) were thankful of the over-sight of pressure groups such as Reprieve and Amnesty

[AleG]

Been trying to stay away from this thread but it has got really silly.

Thank you Isloandlover for such a great breakdown and post.

Facts:

The family statements are neutral, in the main, saying only what we already know.

What they have said, is clear, although I am surprised that they have appointed JTJ as their

Translator, interpreter and apparent guru.

Day and night he has been posting, what he says, is

what the family meant, because, to him, it is obvious.

Well, guess what, supercilious arrogance does not cut it.

So best he shuts up and sticks toi FACTS, not supposition and interpretation.

I have noticed also that the apologists have attracted a couple of lowly gang members ( or perhaps alter egos) to assist their campaign of disinformation.

I can happily now report Nomsod was 100% on the island that night.

How do I know and what evidence do I have??

I have 2 media interviews from his dear doting daddy that categorically states his son has NOT run

away, he is returning to university. Now as headman of the island and a daddy I have to believe him, he must KNOW where his son is. He really should have contacted Nomsods girlfriend though, she was frantically posting not seeing her beau for 2 or 3 days and, they are inseparable, allegedly.

Should have a word with members of the family too who were posting they were with Nomsod in Bangkok on the day of the murder and making daddy look like he tells porkies. Mind you, as the poster was checked in in Chonburi when she was in Bangkok, its easy to get confused.

Early police chief who was moved (allegedly by prior arrangement) to be replaced by Supreme commander Nothaicoulddothis has been labelled by our frantic posting gaggle of apologists as having made many mistakes yet, he still took up a promotion. So it follows that a new area now has, by their statements, an incompetent and mistake prone leader. Wow, that bodes well for his new subordinates.

My own feeling is he was doing a fine job at the start but appears to have succumbed to 30 pieces of silver, metaphorically speaking.

Moving on to the British police, who I still have faith in, I am uplifted emotionally to notice how the apologists have recognised their worth and given them post Thailand promotions. For weeks they banged on about how they were just observers and referred to them as such. SUDDENLY, in their new (premature) gloating I told you so posts, they have been accorded the heady heights of investigators. I trust their letter of thanks is on its way to JTJ et al.

Just for information, neither the British or the Burmese authorities have made any statements about satisfaction or otherwise despite the RTP BS that keeps being spouted as they are confident in the RTP investigation.

Absolute cr”p, this is not correct UK terminology nor will they be making statements of that nature at this time that they would suspect would be made public.

A quick mention of the spacebook page. Until recently it has been a great source of information, unfortunately, the plot seems to have been mislaid, hopefully temporarily.

Still some good stuff on there but it is turning into a shrine for the admins ego and a place of worship for his unquestioning disciples.

On saying that, he has never offred up any CT, merely asking questions about information he has, so most things still relevant.

Lastly, the failure of the RTP and prosecuting lawyers to allow the defence team proper and reasonable access to evidence and witnesses or allowing a reasonable time frame to prepare a defence.

So, regardless of the thousands of posts, the feelings of the majority here, it has all been in vain. Whether the B2 did it or not, they have been hung out to dry and nobody can do a damn thing about it. All hopes now rest with human rights groups.

The investigation was shoddy and apparently corrupt and the trial is on the same railtracks.

I'm going to illustrate the failings of your reasoning:

I can happily now report Nomsod was 100% on the island that night.

How do I know and what evidence do I have??

I have 2 media interviews from his dear doting daddy that categorically states his son has NOT run

The evidence you say you have does not validate your premise; even assuming your summary of what the father said is true, "My son is not on the run" does not equal "My son is/was in Koh Tao" It's not a subtle difference at all.

Then you further proceed to add your own speculation as fact, for example "he must KNOW where his son is", why must he? It's your own speculation, and a self serving one at that.

Besides that guess what? Even if he was on the island at that time it doesn't make him the murderer, it doesn't follow, it would be suspicious yes, it doesn't prove that he committed the crime though.

Before you or someone else starts with the BS that I'm shielding Nomsod, I don't give a crap about him.

I do give a crap about people presenting opinions as facts and speculation as evidence, I do give a crap about witch hunts, , I give a crap about lynch mob mentality taking over (yes, I'm looking at those that approve of vigilante "justice" for who they think are the "real" criminals) and I do give a crap about people wanting to interfere with a real life tragedy acting as if it is a game of Clue.

[StealthEnergiser]

Been trying to stay away from this thread but it has got really silly.

Thank you Isloandlover for such a great breakdown and post.

Facts:

The family statements are neutral, in the main, saying only what we already know.

What they have said, is clear, although I am surprised that they have appointed JTJ as their

Translator, interpreter and apparent guru.

Day and night he has been posting, what he says, is

what the family meant, because, to him, it is obvious.

Well, guess what, supercilious arrogance does not cut it.

So best he shuts up and sticks toi FACTS, not supposition and interpretation.

I have noticed also that the apologists have attracted a couple of lowly gang members ( or perhaps alter egos) to assist their campaign of disinformation.

I can happily now report Nomsod was 100% on the island that night.

How do I know and what evidence do I have??

I have 2 media interviews from his dear doting daddy that categorically states his son has NOT run

away, he is returning to university. Now as headman of the island and a daddy I have to believe him, he must KNOW where his son is. He really should have contacted Nomsods girlfriend though, she was frantically posting not seeing her beau for 2 or 3 days and, they are inseparable, allegedly.

Should have a word with members of the family too who were posting they were with Nomsod in Bangkok on the day of the murder and making daddy look like he tells porkies. Mind you, as the poster was checked in in Chonburi when she was in Bangkok, its easy to get confused.

Early police chief who was moved (allegedly by prior arrangement) to be replaced by Supreme commander Nothaicoulddothis has been labelled by our frantic posting gaggle of apologists as having made many mistakes yet, he still took up a promotion. So it follows that a new area now has, by their statements, an incompetent and mistake prone leader. Wow, that bodes well for his new subordinates.

My own feeling is he was doing a fine job at the start but appears to have succumbed to 30 pieces of silver, metaphorically speaking.

Moving on to the British police, who I still have faith in, I am uplifted emotionally to notice how the apologists have recognised their worth and given them post Thailand promotions. For weeks they banged on about how they were just observers and referred to them as such. SUDDENLY, in their new (premature) gloating I told you so posts, they have been accorded the heady heights of investigators. I trust their letter of thanks is on its way to JTJ et al.

Just for information, neither the British or the Burmese authorities have made any statements about satisfaction or otherwise despite the RTP BS that keeps being spouted as they are confident in the RTP investigation.

Absolute cr”p, this is not correct UK terminology nor will they be making statements of that nature at this time that they would suspect would be made public.

A quick mention of the spacebook page. Until recently it has been a great source of information, unfortunately, the plot seems to have been mislaid, hopefully temporarily.

Still some good stuff on there but it is turning into a shrine for the admins ego and a place of worship for his unquestioning disciples.

On saying that, he has never offred up any CT, merely asking questions about information he has, so most things still relevant.

Lastly, the failure of the RTP and prosecuting lawyers to allow the defence team proper and reasonable access to evidence and witnesses or allowing a reasonable time frame to prepare a defence.

So, regardless of the thousands of posts, the feelings of the majority here, it has all been in vain. Whether the B2 did it or not, they have been hung out to dry and nobody can do a damn thing about it. All hopes now rest with human rights groups.

The investigation was shoddy and apparently corrupt and the trial is on the same railtracks.

Thank you Dennis for exposing the lies and cover ups of the mentioned posters we are all know the reason why they are trying to stop us .but the day is going to come when 2 posters in particular may have some explaining to do.

What type of people would wake up each day and do nothing more than insult people and upset grieving families.

Edited December 12, 2014 by StealthEnergiser

[DennisF]

Been trying to stay away from this thread but it has got really silly.

Thank you Isloandlover for such a great breakdown and post.

Facts:

The family statements are neutral, in the main, saying only what we already know.

What they have said, is clear, although I am surprised that they have appointed JTJ as their

Translator, interpreter and apparent guru.

Day and night he has been posting, what he says, is

what the family meant, because, to him, it is obvious.

Well, guess what, supercilious arrogance does not cut it.

So best he shuts up and sticks toi FACTS, not supposition and interpretation.

I have noticed also that the apologists have attracted a couple of lowly gang members ( or perhaps alter egos) to assist their campaign of disinformation.

I can happily now report Nomsod was 100% on the island that night.

How do I know and what evidence do I have??

I have 2 media interviews from his dear doting daddy that categorically states his son has NOT run

away, he is returning to university. Now as headman of the island and a daddy I have to believe him, he must KNOW where his son is. He really should have contacted Nomsods girlfriend though, she was frantically posting not seeing her beau for 2 or 3 days and, they are inseparable, allegedly.

Should have a word with members of the family too who were posting they were with Nomsod in Bangkok on the day of the murder and making daddy look like he tells porkies. Mind you, as the poster was checked in in Chonburi when she was in Bangkok, its easy to get confused.

Early police chief who was moved (allegedly by prior arrangement) to be replaced by Supreme commander Nothaicoulddothis has been labelled by our frantic posting gaggle of apologists as having made many mistakes yet, he still took up a promotion. So it follows that a new area now has, by their statements, an incompetent and mistake prone leader. Wow, that bodes well for his new subordinates.

My own feeling is he was doing a fine job at the start but appears to have succumbed to 30 pieces of silver, metaphorically speaking.

Moving on to the British police, who I still have faith in, I am uplifted emotionally to notice how the apologists have recognised their worth and given them post Thailand promotions. For weeks they banged on about how they were just observers and referred to them as such. SUDDENLY, in their new (premature) gloating I told you so posts, they have been accorded the heady heights of investigators. I trust their letter of thanks is on its way to JTJ et al.

Just for information, neither the British or the Burmese authorities have made any statements about satisfaction or otherwise despite the RTP BS that keeps being spouted as they are confident in the RTP investigation.

Absolute cr”p, this is not correct UK terminology nor will they be making statements of that nature at this time that they would suspect would be made public.

A quick mention of the spacebook page. Until recently it has been a great source of information, unfortunately, the plot seems to have been mislaid, hopefully temporarily.

Still some good stuff on there but it is turning into a shrine for the admins ego and a place of worship for his unquestioning disciples.

On saying that, he has never offred up any CT, merely asking questions about information he has, so most things still relevant.

Lastly, the failure of the RTP and prosecuting lawyers to allow the defence team proper and reasonable access to evidence and witnesses or allowing a reasonable time frame to prepare a defence.

So, regardless of the thousands of posts, the feelings of the majority here, it has all been in vain. Whether the B2 did it or not, they have been hung out to dry and nobody can do a damn thing about it. All hopes now rest with human rights groups.

The investigation was shoddy and apparently corrupt and the trial is on the same railtracks.

I'm going to illustrate the failings of your reasoning:

I can happily now report Nomsod was 100% on the island that night.

How do I know and what evidence do I have??

I have 2 media interviews from his dear doting daddy that categorically states his son has NOT run

The evidence you say you have does not validate your premise; even assuming your summary of what the father said is true, "My son is not on the run" does not equal "My son is/was in Koh Tao" It's not a subtle difference at all.

Then you further proceed to add your own speculation as fact, for example "he must KNOW where his son is", why must he? It's your own speculation, and a self serving one at that.

Besides that guess what? Even if he was on the island at that time it doesn't make him the murderer, it doesn't follow, it would be suspicious yes, it doesn't prove that he committed the crime though.

Before you or someone else starts with the BS that I'm shielding Nomsod, I don't give a crap about him.

I do give a crap about people presenting opinions as facts and speculation as evidence, I do give a crap about witch hunts, , I give a crap about lynch mob mentality taking over (yes, I'm looking at those that approve of vigilante "justice" for who they think are the "real" criminals) and I do give a crap about people wanting to interfere with a real life tragedy acting as if it is a game of Clue.

Firstly, you assume too much and secondly, I dont give a crap about Nomsod either or his so called protectors.

Check the news items, dear doting daddy said his son had left the island early to return to uni.

So he DID know where his son was, (or so he said), and I did not speculate.

Self serving? For what? I have no theory or agenda on the case but I am capable of spotting BS.

You seem to give a crap about a lot of things, I am shocked you have been absent and unable to bestow upon us

your morals until this late stage, were you crusading elsewhere?

As for vigilante justice, that is just rhetoric on your part and has no basis whatsoever so you are resorting to scaremongering.

I am always prepared for intelligent debate but you have entered this one too late and are attempting to join a battle when you have neither weaponry or ammunition.

Welcome to my ignore list, join the only other resident, the sadman.

Edited December 12, 2014 by DennisF

[AleG]

I'm going to illustrate the failings of your reasoning:

I can happily now report Nomsod was 100% on the island that night.

How do I know and what evidence do I have??

I have 2 media interviews from his dear doting daddy that categorically states his son has NOT run

The evidence you say you have does not validate your premise; even assuming your summary of what the father said is true, "My son is not on the run" does not equal "My son is/was in Koh Tao" It's not a subtle difference at all.

Then you further proceed to add your own speculation as fact, for example "he must KNOW where his son is", why must he? It's your own speculation, and a self serving one at that.

Besides that guess what? Even if he was on the island at that time it doesn't make him the murderer, it doesn't follow, it would be suspicious yes, it doesn't prove that he committed the crime though.

Before you or someone else starts with the BS that I'm shielding Nomsod, I don't give a crap about him.

I do give a crap about people presenting opinions as facts and speculation as evidence, I do give a crap about witch hunts, , I give a crap about lynch mob mentality taking over (yes, I'm looking at those that approve of vigilante "justice" for who they think are the "real" criminals) and I do give a crap about people wanting to interfere with a real life tragedy acting as if it is a game of Clue.

Firstly, you assume too much and secondly, I dont give a crap about Nomsod either or his so called protectors.

Check the news items, dear doting daddy said his son had left the island early to return to uni.

So he DID know where his son was, (or so he said), and I did not speculate.

Self serving? For what? I have no theory or agenda on the case but I am capable of spotting BS.

You seem to give a crap about a lot of things, I am shocked you have been absent and unable to bestow upon us

your morals until this late stage, were you crusading elsewhere?

As for vigilante justice, that is just rhetoric on your part and has no basis whatsoever so you are resorting to scaremongering.

I am always prepared for intelligent debate but you have entered this one too late and are attempting to join a battle when you have neither weaponry or ammunition.

Welcome to my ignore list, join the only other resident, the sadman.

Already into the ignore list wow; the problem is not that I'm entering battle without arms and ammunition, the problem is that you ran away at the first chance...

One point only, because I'm running late...

"As for vigilante justice, that is just rhetoric on your part and has no basis whatsoever so you are resorting to scaremongering."

Rhetoric? Hardly, here's one example:

I have kept a log of names of all officials that are complicit here in this case. Justice will be served, although it is not yet clear through what channel. My money would be on vigilantes detaining and "having a chat" with some of the bent officials to discover the truth, and then some sort of fitting punishment meted out. For the record, nobody is above vigilante justice due to birthrights.

A comment that was, coincidentally, endorsed by your new admirer StealthEnergizer.

By the way, Stealth Energizer, what lies have I said and to who will I have to answer to?

Edited December 12, 2014 by AleG

[RolandRat]

I dont know you few posters insist on beating this

What possible stimulus or benefit can there be, no one will EVER know what really happened, no one will EVER know the truth.

The evidence will show whatever it needs to show to achieve the result that is needed and probably already agreed, the rest is a rubber stamp pony show and nothing more.You are just wasting your time arguing over something thats already been decided.

[DennisF]

As I have broken my self-imposed silence, I may as well carry on.

I want to look at the apologists holy grail.. DNA.

Our top vitriolic and venomous poster keeps batting on about one of the B2 semen being matched to that inside a victim.

Absolute cr@p, it was mentioned ONCE by an RTP loudmouth and has never been officially confirmed or mentioned again.

But, that aside, please tell us how ANY evidence taken from that crime scene can be admitted in any court of law that wants to boast of a fair and transparent hearing for the defendants.

It is not possible, here are a few reasons why.

The scene was never cordoned off and many unauthorized people were allowed to wander at will contaminating it.

The local quack was seen on camera, ( with a person some say should be of interest shadowing him), handling ant touching both victims and all with the same gloves on. Possibly, if not probably, moving DNA evidence from one place to another.

There was NO forensic specialist on site and the only person with a reputed minimal knowledge was one of the senior officers who came from Bangkok, after the damage had been done.

The collection of the DNA was not performed by specialists in this field.

The matching of the DNA samples of the defendants did not match at first but, then after a second go at it.. they did. Thank heavens for second chances eh?

Samples were then matched by venues that did not have criminal DNA licencing and were done in a time frame that is impossible, according to forensic experts, so we can only assume ( if that is allowed) that the simpler process of paternal; matching was done.

On this DNA debacle, I could write a book but, for now, suffice it to say that any evidence, DNA or otherwise that was collected by non-professionals from this crime scene is, at best, very questionable, and possibly ( or probably) corrupted, tainted and inadmissible in a court of law that wants clarity and undisputable evidence to reach a verdict.

You could expect a legal system that rushes a case through in order not to be swayed by evidence in an inquest in another country and has media censorship as its bodyguard to not care so much about the failings of an investigation.

On the other hand, this trial, unless we get a smoking gun report from you know where, has already been decided, we are all pi55ing into the wind.

[IslandLover]

PaPiPuPePo, on 12 Dec 2014 - 09:29, said:

IslandLover, on 12 Dec 2014 - 02:06, said:

fritzzz25, on 11 Dec 2014 - 09:22, said:

-----

Powerful post.

These families appear to not care who goes down for this, just that someone does.

Not wishing to sound insensitive but that is the feeling I got when I read the families' statements.

(Fritzzz25's awesome and sorely needed post edited out for brevity's sake).

Yes, I'm so glad to have someone with actual LE experience weigh in on this, not just because what he says supports what many of us think.

As to IL's comment, I didn't want to wade into this earlier, but it's not uncommon for the families of murder victims to act and feel as IL wrote in italics; one can read about innocent men in the US who were executed and the victim's family refused to accept obvious exculpatory evidence. I'm not laying blame because who can judge without being in that position, but the fact remains that those people gloating over the statement made by David's family are either unaware of choosing to ignore this phenomenon.

Just to clarify and avoid any misconceptions, it was Fritzzz25 who said:

These families appear to not care who goes down for this, just that someone does.

I'm just glad that there are others who feel as I do as I didn't want to come out and say it before in case it sounded disrespectful to the families. I'm sure that they feel a great sense of anger, as well as sorrow, at what has happened to their loved ones and the human desire for "revenge" is one of the first emotions that surface in this type of horrific situation. The second emotion is "blame". I also suspect they have little or no knowledge of what goes on in Thailand regarding the police and the justice system and are willing to believe everything that has been fed to them via the RTP. Very sad all round.

[StealthEnergiser]

As I have broken my self-imposed silence, I may as well carry on.

I want to look at the apologists holy grail.. DNA.

Our top vitriolic and venomous poster keeps batting on about one of the B2 semen being matched to that inside a victim.

Absolute cr@p, it was mentioned ONCE by an RTP loudmouth and has never been officially confirmed or mentioned again.

But, that aside, please tell us how ANY evidence taken from that crime scene can be admitted in any court of law that wants to boast of a fair and transparent hearing for the defendants.

It is not possible, here are a few reasons why.

The scene was never cordoned off and many unauthorized people were allowed to wander at will contaminating it.

The local quack was seen on camera, ( with a person some say should be of interest shadowing him), handling ant touching both victims and all with the same gloves on. Possibly, if not probably, moving DNA evidence from one place to another.

There was NO forensic specialist on site and the only person with a reputed minimal knowledge was one of the senior officers who came from Bangkok, after the damage had been done.

The collection of the DNA was not performed by specialists in this field.

The matching of the DNA samples of the defendants did not match at first but, then after a second go at it.. they did. Thank heavens for second chances eh?

Samples were then matched by venues that did not have criminal DNA licencing and were done in a time frame that is impossible, according to forensic experts, so we can only assume ( if that is allowed) that the simpler process of paternal; matching was done.

On this DNA debacle, I could write a book but, for now, suffice it to say that any evidence, DNA or otherwise that was collected by non-professionals from this crime scene is, at best, very questionable, and possibly ( or probably) corrupted, tainted and inadmissible in a court of law that wants clarity and undisputable evidence to reach a verdict.

You could expect a legal system that rushes a case through in order not to be swayed by evidence in an inquest in another country and has media censorship as its bodyguard to not care so much about the failings of an investigation.

On the other hand, this trial, unless we get a smoking gun report from you know where, has already been decided, we are all pi55ing into the wind.

Very good that you mention the doctor on the crime scene how long was he and the other early suspect there for before a lot of people came on the scene. There is a very possibility that crime scene was manipulated by influential persons before any investigation began and after that the photos were intentionally leaked . Nothing Can be ruled out in a country with such a bad reputation for police corruption.

[IslandLover]

RolandRat, on 12 Dec 2014 - 15:16, said:RolandRat, on 12 Dec 2014 - 15:16, said:RolandRat, on 12 Dec 2014 - 15:16, said:

I dont know you few posters insist on beating this

What possible stimulus or benefit can there be, no one will EVER know what really happened, no one will EVER know the truth.

The evidence will show whatever it needs to show to achieve the result that is needed and probably already agreed, the rest is a rubber stamp pony show and nothing more.You are just wasting your time arguing over something thats already been decided.

I fear that you may be right about the outcome, but we are all human and entitled to our opinions in a free society. Debate is healthy even if the outcome appears pointless. Besides that, some of us will never stop searching for the truth, even years after an event.

Edited December 12, 2014 by IslandLover

[AleG]

As I have broken my self-imposed silence, I may as well carry on.

I want to look at the apologists holy grail.. DNA.

Our top vitriolic and venomous poster keeps batting on about one of the B2 semen being matched to that inside a victim.

Absolute cr@p, it was mentioned ONCE by an RTP loudmouth and has never been officially confirmed or mentioned again.

But, that aside, please tell us how ANY evidence taken from that crime scene can be admitted in any court of law that wants to boast of a fair and transparent hearing for the defendants.

It is not possible, here are a few reasons why.

The scene was never cordoned off and many unauthorized people were allowed to wander at will contaminating it.

The local quack was seen on camera, ( with a person some say should be of interest shadowing him), handling ant touching both victims and all with the same gloves on. Possibly, if not probably, moving DNA evidence from one place to another.

There was NO forensic specialist on site and the only person with a reputed minimal knowledge was one of the senior officers who came from Bangkok, after the damage had been done.

The collection of the DNA was not performed by specialists in this field.

The matching of the DNA samples of the defendants did not match at first but, then after a second go at it.. they did. Thank heavens for second chances eh?

Samples were then matched by venues that did not have criminal DNA licencing and were done in a time frame that is impossible, according to forensic experts, so we can only assume ( if that is allowed) that the simpler process of paternal; matching was done.

On this DNA debacle, I could write a book but, for now, suffice it to say that any evidence, DNA or otherwise that was collected by non-professionals from this crime scene is, at best, very questionable, and possibly ( or probably) corrupted, tainted and inadmissible in a court of law that wants clarity and undisputable evidence to reach a verdict.

You could expect a legal system that rushes a case through in order not to be swayed by evidence in an inquest in another country and has media censorship as its bodyguard to not care so much about the failings of an investigation.

On the other hand, this trial, unless we get a smoking gun report from you know where, has already been decided, we are all pi55ing into the wind.

I presume that by vitriolic and venomous you refer to me?

I see you are just throwing around speculation, facts and "facts". For example:

"The local quack was seen on camera, ( with a person some say should be of interest shadowing him), handling ant touching both victims and all with the same gloves on. Possibly, if not probably, moving DNA evidence from one place to another."

You are accusing the doctor of tampering with the crime scene, evidence for that: zero.

But hey, that suits your case so you just state it and run with it.

"There was NO forensic specialist on site and the only person with a reputed minimal knowledge was one of the senior officers who came from Bangkok, after the damage had been done."

So what? The postmortem was not done on the beach.

"The collection of the DNA was not performed by specialists in this field."

Where do you get that from?

"The matching of the DNA samples of the defendants did not match at first but, then after a second go at it.. they did. Thank heavens for second chances eh?".

Can you provide a citation to the DNA samples taken before the arrest not matching? Because there is a difference between no results yet and a negative match after the analysis was completed, after all at least around 200 people provided samples to be analyzed and in another paragraph you say that other analysis "were done in a time frame that is impossible". So what is it? Amazing speed to analyze 200+ samples, bloody murder when another analysis (of which you give no details whatsoever) takes too little time?

I think you think you know things that you really don't know, but you base your arguments on them anyway.

"On this DNA debacle, I could write a book but, for now, suffice it to say that any evidence, DNA or otherwise that was collected by non-professionals from this crime scene is, at best, very questionable, and possibly ( or probably) corrupted, tainted and inadmissible in a court of law that wants clarity and undisputable evidence to reach a verdict."

Well, knock yourself out with your book, just make sure it's correctly labeled as fiction if you won't bother with corroborating facts or just make them up as you go.

[boomerangutang]

We've got at least two broken records going on these threads. One who can't stop inserting 'conspiracy theory' in to his many comments, and another who incessantly inserts 'that's not evidence' in to most of his posts. Perhaps they could add something useful to the discussion? Their desperation is showing, or maybe it's their glee that they see the scapegoats moving inexorably closer to guilty verdicts. However, they're not so much eager to see the Burmese fry, as they are to shield the Headman's people. It just so happens that, to keep the headman's people from becoming suspects again, the Burmese have to be sacrificed. Is it such a big deal? The Burmese are poor, they're at the bottom rung of the social ladder (or not even on the ladder), they have no connections to any important Thai people. In sum: they're expendable. Just a reminder of how extremely stratified social classes are in Thailand.

[IslandLover]

jimmybkk, on 11 Dec 2014 - 09:26, said:

I also note that some members are rather fond of the term "conspiracy theory" or "conspiracy theorists" to describe those of us who are less than convinced that the case against the accused is watertight. Once again a nice attempt to deflect and discredit by debunking and rebuttal, without offering anything substantiated to back up their assertion of guilt. Not a bad strategy but times have changed...

"US & UK studies: those who “buy’ mainstream ‘lies’ are the ‘crazies’ – conspiracy theorists are ‘saner’, reflect ‘conventional wisdom”

The term was invented and put into wide circulation by the CIA to smear and defame people questioning the JFK assassination!

“The CIA’s campaign to popularize the term ‘conspiracy theory’ and make conspiracy belief a target of ridicule and hostility must be credited, unfortunately, with being one of the most successful propaganda initiatives of all time.”

Today, the CIA-designed propaganda seems to be wearing off “… those who do not believe government accounts of such events as 9/11 and the JFK assassination outnumber believers by more than two to one.”

Recent studies by psychologists and social scientists in the US and UK suggest that contrary to mainstream media stereotypes, those labeled “conspiracy theorists” appear to be saner than those who accept the official versions of contested events.

The most recent study was published on July 8th (2013) by psychologists Michael J. Wood and Karen M. Douglas of the University of Kent (UK). Entitled “What about Building 7? A social psychological study of online discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories,” the study compared “conspiracist” (pro-conspiracy theory) and “conventionalist” (anti-conspiracy) comments at news websites.

The authors were surprised to discover that it is now more conventional to (believe) so-called conspiracist comments than conventionalist ones: “Of the 2174 comments collected, 1459 were coded as conspiracist and 715 as conventionalist.” In other words, among people who comment on news articles, those who disbelieve government accounts of such events as 9/11 and the JFK assassination outnumber believers by more than two to one. That means it is the pro-conspiracy commenters who are expressing what is now the conventional wisdom, while the anti-conspiracy commenters are becoming a small, beleaguered minority.

jimmybkk, on 11 Dec 2014 - 09:26, said:

Perhaps because their supposedly mainstream views no longer represent the majority, the anti-conspiracy commenters often displayed anger and hostility: “The research… showed that people who favoured the official account of 9/11 were generally more hostile when trying to persuade their rivals.”

Additionally, it turned out that the anti-conspiracy people were not only hostile, but fanatically attached to their own conspiracy theories as well. According to them, their own theory of 9/11 – a conspiracy theory holding that 19 Arabs, none of whom could fly planes with any proficiency, pulled off the crime of the century under the direction of a guy on dialysis in a cave in Afghanistan – was indisputably true. The so-called conspiracists, on the other hand, did not pretend to have a theory that completely explained the events of 9/11: “For people who think 9/11 was a government conspiracy, the focus is not on promoting a specific rival theory, but in trying to debunk the official account.”

In short, the new study by Wood and Douglas suggests that the negative stereotype of the conspiracy theorist – a hostile fanatic wedded to the truth of his own fringe theory – accurately describes the people who defend the official account of 9/11, not those who dispute it."

Whilst I don't agree with some of the sentiments expressed in this extracted post pertaining to one well-known conspiracy theory/false flag operation, has anyone stopped to think that the resident sadman and his cohorts might actually be working for the CIA? Or is that a conspiracy theory too far?

[thailandchilli]

Its widely reported that the day after the murders the police were already on the trail of 3 Burmese who were near the scene at the time of the murders, here's just one of those reports:

Pol Maj- Gen Kiatipong Khoasamarng said the police have at first targeted on foreign labour working in Koh Tao and now are closing in a group of suspects who are Myanmar workers. They had liquor drinks near the scene on Sunday night before the two bodies would be found. http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/surat-police-detain-three-myanmar-workers-questioning-connection-britons-murder

Subsequent reports also stated that the DNA evidence came back negative and so they were released.

Now lets be realistic here, how many groups of 3 Burmese could have been there..............is this the first round of testing for the current suspects that came back negative.........

[JohnThailandJohn]

We've got at least two broken records going on these threads. One who can't stop inserting 'conspiracy theory' in to his many comments, and another who incessantly inserts 'that's not evidence' in to most of his posts. Perhaps they could add something useful to the discussion? Their desperation is showing, or maybe it's their glee that they see the scapegoats moving inexorably closer to guilty verdicts. However, they're not so much eager to see the Burmese fry, as they are to shield the Headman's people. It just so happens that, to keep the headman's people from becoming suspects again, the Burmese have to be sacrificed. Is it such a big deal? The Burmese are poor, they're at the bottom rung of the social ladder (or not even on the ladder), they have no connections to any important Thai people. In sum: they're expendable. Just a reminder of how extremely stratified social classes are in Thailand.

"That's not evidence" but rather a "conspiracy theory" you're promoting.

Edited December 12, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Mooner]

Its widely reported that the day after the murders the police were already on the trail of 3 Burmese who were near the scene at the time of the murders, here's just one of those reports:

Pol Maj- Gen Kiatipong Khoasamarng said the police have at first targeted on foreign labour working in Koh Tao and now are closing in a group of suspects who are Myanmar workers. They had liquor drinks near the scene on Sunday night before the two bodies would be found. http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/surat-police-detain-three-myanmar-workers-questioning-connection-britons-murder

Subsequent reports also stated that the DNA evidence came back negative and so they were released.

Now lets be realistic here, how many groups of 3 Burmese could have been there..............is this the first round of testing for the current suspects that came back negative.........

Doesn't matter what you say or the links you provide. You will be labelled as a conspiracy theorists.

what's the opposite of that?

[Fat Haggis]

As I have broken my self-imposed silence, I may as well carry on.

I want to look at the apologists holy grail.. DNA.

Our top vitriolic and venomous poster keeps batting on about one of the B2 semen being matched to that inside a victim.

Absolute cr@p, it was mentioned ONCE by an RTP loudmouth and has never been officially confirmed or mentioned again.

But, that aside, please tell us how ANY evidence taken from that crime scene can be admitted in any court of law that wants to boast of a fair and transparent hearing for the defendants.

It is not possible, here are a few reasons why.

The scene was never cordoned off and many unauthorized people were allowed to wander at will contaminating it.

The local quack was seen on camera, ( with a person some say should be of interest shadowing him), handling ant touching both victims and all with the same gloves on. Possibly, if not probably, moving DNA evidence from one place to another.

There was NO forensic specialist on site and the only person with a reputed minimal knowledge was one of the senior officers who came from Bangkok, after the damage had been done.

The collection of the DNA was not performed by specialists in this field.

The matching of the DNA samples of the defendants did not match at first but, then after a second go at it.. they did. Thank heavens for second chances eh?

Samples were then matched by venues that did not have criminal DNA licencing and were done in a time frame that is impossible, according to forensic experts, so we can only assume ( if that is allowed) that the simpler process of paternal; matching was done.

On this DNA debacle, I could write a book but, for now, suffice it to say that any evidence, DNA or otherwise that was collected by non-professionals from this crime scene is, at best, very questionable, and possibly ( or probably) corrupted, tainted and inadmissible in a court of law that wants clarity and undisputable evidence to reach a verdict.

You could expect a legal system that rushes a case through in order not to be swayed by evidence in an inquest in another country and has media censorship as its bodyguard to not care so much about the failings of an investigation.

On the other hand, this trial, unless we get a smoking gun report from you know where, has already been decided, we are all pi55ing into the wind.

I presume that by vitriolic and venomous you refer to me?

I see you are just throwing around speculation, facts and "facts". For example:

"The local quack was seen on camera, ( with a person some say should be of interest shadowing him), handling ant touching both victims and all with the same gloves on. Possibly, if not probably, moving DNA evidence from one place to another."

You are accusing the doctor of tampering with the crime scene, evidence for that: zero.

But hey, that suits your case so you just state it and run with it.

"There was NO forensic specialist on site and the only person with a reputed minimal knowledge was one of the senior officers who came from Bangkok, after the damage had been done."

So what? The postmortem was not done on the beach.

"The collection of the DNA was not performed by specialists in this field."

Where do you get that from?

"The matching of the DNA samples of the defendants did not match at first but, then after a second go at it.. they did. Thank heavens for second chances eh?".

Can you provide a citation to the DNA samples taken before the arrest not matching? Because there is a difference between no results yet and a negative match after the analysis was completed, after all at least around 200 people provided samples to be analyzed and in another paragraph you say that other analysis "were done in a time frame that is impossible". So what is it? Amazing speed to analyze 200+ samples, bloody murder when another analysis (of which you give no details whatsoever) takes too little time?

I think you think you know things that you really don't know, but you base your arguments on them anyway.

"On this DNA debacle, I could write a book but, for now, suffice it to say that any evidence, DNA or otherwise that was collected by non-professionals from this crime scene is, at best, very questionable, and possibly ( or probably) corrupted, tainted and inadmissible in a court of law that wants clarity and undisputable evidence to reach a verdict."

Well, knock yourself out with your book, just make sure it's correctly labeled as fiction if you won't bother with corroborating facts or just make them up as you go.

How well do you know the local doctor that you can vouch for his integrity and professional conduct?

Everyone thought Harold Shipman and Beverly Allet were good enough to employ and praise, and yet they were both stone cold mass murderers !!!

So unless you know the Doctor personally, how do you know he's not beyond " protecting" those who employed him?

[AleG]

Its widely reported that the day after the murders the police were already on the trail of 3 Burmese who were near the scene at the time of the murders, here's just one of those reports:

Pol Maj- Gen Kiatipong Khoasamarng said the police have at first targeted on foreign labour working in Koh Tao and now are closing in a group of suspects who are Myanmar workers. They had liquor drinks near the scene on Sunday night before the two bodies would be found. http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/surat-police-detain-three-myanmar-workers-questioning-connection-britons-murder

Subsequent reports also stated that the DNA evidence came back negative and so they were released.

Now lets be realistic here, how many groups of 3 Burmese could have been there..............is this the first round of testing for the current suspects that came back negative.........

Now lets be realistic here, how many groups of 3 Burmese could have been there

Considering the very large number of Burmese people working in Koh Tao, many. It's an incredible feeble argument.