Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[greenchair]

Another poster found this interesting comments from Met Police.

BBC News at approx 01:01:48

Met police Confusions and inconsistencies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttl5c

Thanks...this is good development.

I don't understand. When I go to the sight it just talks about some guy Steve wright.

Did I miss something. What news are you talking about.

Sorry. Got it now.

[greenchair]

In the eyes of the public, Win and Zaw are already perceived as innocent. Unfortunately in this case, that is not enough. I've read the trail starts today, the 26th. I sincerely pray that justice is not perverted again, that the international attention this case has received will be enough of an edge to set the two scapegoats free. Forget about justice for David and Hannah. The Thais have fcked this up so royally, there's no chance of catching the real killers. But save two Burmese innocent lives must be the objective here.

I agree totally. Who committed that horrendous crime is by the by. preventing 2 innocent people, and 2 innocent families from what would be a double tragedy, is now the focus. I am still pinning my hopes on the coroner report.

[greenchair]

To save a lot of people going to the BBC website and trawling through I have extracted the whole news section, for context, here. The audio of interest starts at 01:35 as the 3rd item.

bbc_news_dec_22_3pm_radio_2.mp3

This was very helpful.

Can we change the name of this thread to. Brit police say the evidence against saw and Wei is not convincing and weak.

[falangjim]

Another poster found this interesting comments from Met Police.

BBC News at approx 01:01:48

Met police Confusions and inconsistencies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttl5c

Thanks...this is good development.

I don't understand. When I go to the sight it just talks about some guy Steve wright.

Did I miss something. What news are you talking about.

it is definitely there just play and wait until 01:01:48

Here is the transcript as read by the BBC radio reporter: "Metropolitan Police says there's confusion and inconsistencies in the investigation in Thailand into the murders of two British tourists on the island of Koh Tao. Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September. Scotland Yard, which is observing the Thai inquiry, says there are questions about he strength of the case against the two men from Burma charged with the murder."

Edited December 26, 2014 by falangjim

[boomerangutang]

In the eyes of the public, Win and Zaw are already perceived as innocent. Unfortunately in this case, that is not enough. I've read the trail starts today, the 26th. I sincerely pray that justice is not perverted again, that the international attention this case has received will be enough of an edge to set the two scapegoats free. Forget about justice for David and Hannah. The Thais have fcked this up so royally, there's no chance of catching the real killers. But save two Burmese innocent lives must be the objective here.

Your last sentence "But save two Burmese innocent lives must be the objective here." is on the mark, but may I add, the other objectives are:

>>> get justice for the 2 victims

>>> get the real perps out of the public domain, so they can't destroy other peoples' lives.

The Brit experts seem to have lost sight of that, or else they would have some alacrity in finding and exposing findings in this case. They're playing their cards too close to their chests. Thus far, it's a disgrace for British authorities.

[Willy Eckerslike]

Another poster found this interesting comments from Met Police.

BBC News at approx 01:01:48

Met police Confusions and inconsistencies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttl5c

Copied from the news above,

The Metropolitan Police says there's Confusion and Inconsistences in the Investigation in Thailand into the murders of two British Tourists on the Island of Koh Tao. Hanna Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September, Scotland Yard which is observing the Thai enquiry says there are questions about the strength of the case against two men from Burma charged with Murder.

Just to clarify this transcript was done by me from the audio. There is no other record of this out there on the internet. Please read the thread that was opened then closed on this to see where we got to.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/786859-kho-tao-murders-bbc-news/

Not sure what you are clarifying there bud.....you should have wrote.............. "I also transcribed the above"...............because that transcript above was done by me...it is not plagiarised............If I had have known of that thread started by KhunDave it would have saved me the time it took to transcribe it............probably longer than it did you............anyways thanks for posting the thread and kudos to KhunDave for starting it.

[JLCrab]

Just to note that Andy Hall has started tweeting live from the Samui Courthouse at @atomicalandy

@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Defence lawyers prepare to request court to postpone hearing as documents/witness issues not satisfactorily prepared, timeline too tight

Edited December 26, 2014 by JLCrab

[Fat Haggis]

"But their are those who blindly believe what ever is fed them"

Yes, like who? Do you have any examples to share?

Obviously boomerangutang is not looking for the truth, based on his compulsive repetition of the "Gang of 4 ...committed to shielding the Headman's people"

He's been told repeatedly that is not the case, he continues doing it, so he is not interested on the truth; he wants to convince himself of a "truth" that makes him look more righteous, facts don't get into it.

I would like to know the truth based on the truth.

The gang of 4 get mentioned on a regular outing as they seem to have this undenying belief of what the police release.

Ask yourself a question, Who would you fit as the most likely person to be the running man ? A Thai male or one of the 2 Burmese.

I'm not asking you to tell me again it was proved the Thai male wasn't on the island at the time. I'm asking you to tell me which of the 3 most resembles the running man.

Since the one you want to pin the ID on was not on the island at the time, it leaves only two options, of the two, in my opinion Zaw Lin has a resemblance to the man on the CCTV footage more than Win Zaw, specially the hairstyle (since then he had it cut).

not sure if I agree with you AleG but if you mentioned this person that would be a different story

crimescene34.jpg

This is a photoshopped picture from CSI LA . What is your point ?

If you want me to I can make another picture of one of the Burmese guys and it would fit perfectly.

And I bet you believe the single still image from a CCTV showing a particular person in his Uni is 100% kosher and unedited too?

We have not only one but several cctv footage showing him in uni and his condo in Banglok. Some people (you ) claim they have been manipulated, theres no evidence of that. However it does not give him a 100% alibi so that's why he finally agreed to do a Dna test. These are the facts and he has been cleared.

The DNA only cleared him of not having any sexual contact, it does NOT clear him of any other potential crime commited!!

[AleG]

What I have said over and over again is that I want to see how the evidence stands up to scrutiny in court, and in the meantime I take a stand about people that spread speculation based on at best third hand accounts, partial information, conflicting reports, outright misinformation and not a small dose of prejudice.

If you believe in that, then can you tell me that you honor the claim of the two defendants that they were tortured and force to plead guilty. You need to give it as much weight as the police. They never receive the justice, as the police refuses to answer to the human rights people. And this is very relevant, as it will change the course of the police investigation. If found to be true. Remember, the law needs oversight as well. You can never surrender your rights and freedom to the government. They must be held accountable. But RTP would like to stay above the law. If they didn't do such a thing, they have nothing to be scared of. Migrant workers are guest to Thailand. They come to do work that Thais do not want to do. Everyone should be thankful for that, in any country. We should never be prejudice against them.

Use your logic this time and tell me, why the police refuse to answer these allegation with the human rights people? So going into trial with the police having an unfair advantage is not a trial. These are things that makes everything stink about the whole investigation.

Logic says that they have not gone to trial, so they are not guilty. If they not guilty, then they the proper respect of any human being. And that is what I believe and that is what I am advocating here, along with everyone who believes in saving humanity. Because it's worth saving.

If it takes speculation as you call it, but I call it putting it to theory. Even police investigation starts with speculation. The what ifs. As we have here, and add it all up, the probability of some of the speculation appears to be high. But since no one has access to key evidence or question it, it will appear to be speculation. But it doesn't mean that it's not valid. Just that it hasn't been proven yet. And with all the speculation, there is bound to be one that can stand on it's own.

• My speculation, is that wounds on the male victim can not have been from just the hoe. So it's not probable that these two murdered the two.
• My speculation is that the two victims did not have intimate relationship with each other on the beach, as they are hardly seen together that night. Even from the CCTV footage.
• My speculation is that the two in jail, did not get so excited to need to grab a hoe to raped and kill the two victims.
• My speculation is that the male victim did not fight the two accused off, as they don't even have any marks on them.
• My speculation is that the entire investigation will look quite weak and will be thrown out. Then the police will blame each other for their incompetence and that everyone will just forget about this as they know nothing ever changes. And the killer will still be on the loose because the crime scene was so contaminated. And that was the idea in the first place to contaminate it so that they can protect the killer.
• My speculation is that the killer is well connected enough for the police to protect them.

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, it's not the same as being tortured. Besides that they also confessed to the crime to a Myanmar delegation and the Human Rights Commission, did they torture them into confession too?

In any case if they were tortured that doesn't make them innocent, it means there are two cases to answer for, the murder of the two British tourists and the torture allegations; furthermore confessions are not the deciding factor in a case, physical evidence is the most relevant.

You speculations and conspiracy theories bore me, come back when you have anything to back them up.

[AleG]

People.... stop trying to convice the Gang of 4 about anything.

They are not here to be convinced or to debate or to discuss.

Their JOB is to deny deny deny. That is what they are here for. They have no other purpose here.

IMO. the best strategy is to ignore them completely and they will run out of oxygen fairly quickly. Not necessay to put them on the ignore list if you don't want to..... just pretend they are not here making a noise.

OTOH, if you like bashing your head against the wall. ... feel free to feed them.

Just remember ........ THEIR JOB is to present the official mantra. You need to understand this point!

I agree.............. send them to Coventry

And stop reposting them. So nobody gets to see the important information. Like the Brits coppers not doing any investigating, but the family giving a carefully worded press release, that led people to believe the brit cops supported the Thai cop investigation. Which we now know is not true .

The UK investigators did what they said they were going to do all along, observe the evidence from the case and the work done by the RTP; it tells a lot about the people that just know what's really going on that they are surprised with their latest statement, if they'd spent less time lost in their speculation bubble and more time in the real world things would be less confusing to them.

[AleG]

I cannot believe this thread has gone on for so long.

This aint rocket science. The family are confident the police have the right people after the UK police investigated the case. If people think the family are in the conspiracy as well then that is a logic that is way way beyond PTP logic….

One doesn't have to be a part of a conspiracy to believe what police tell them. Brit experts were briefed by Thai police regarding the scenario which Thai police want everyone to believe. Brit experts took what they were told, and regurgitated it to the families. Brit authorities are inclined to think that that their counterparts in Thailand would tell them the truth. Similarly, victims' families are inclined to believe what Brit experts convey to them. It's like the ruse of the Piltdown Man: it only took ONE scammer at the source, to fool all the experts and the general public for years.

The DNA trail could be intentionally skewed by just one or two people at the top. After doing that, all the DNA evidence is skewed, including the comparisons which matter most:

>>> DNA from Burmese matches

>>> Nomsod's DNA doesn't match

The Brit coroner, if he did typing for DNA found on/in Hannah, could shed light on this. However, we don't know if the Brits did DNA testing, and if they did, would they risk diplomatic tsunami by announcing results, if the results differed from Thai claims. There is a way out for the Brits, in diplomatic perspective. They can simply say they don't have DNA typing from suspects, which is true, because Thai experts won't share suspects' DNA with the Brits. Thais won't share Nomsod's, and probably not Mon's. And Thai probably didn't even do DNA test on the Stingray Man or Mon's cop friend, even though all those mentioned should be suspects. In sum: Thai cops are likely allowing rapists and murderers to roam free on the island - to strike again, knowing they're untouchable.

In red the parts that you just made up:

"One doesn't have to be a part of a conspiracy to believe what police tell them. Brit experts were briefed by Thai police regarding the scenario which Thai police want everyone to believe. Brit experts took what they were told, and regurgitated it to the families. Brit authorities are inclined to think that that their counterparts in Thailand would tell them the truth. Similarly, victims' families are inclined to believe what Brit experts convey to them. It's like the ruse of the Piltdown Man: it only took ONE scammer at the source, to fool all the experts and the general public for years."

You have no idea how the UK team analyzed the data they received, but it serves you well to discredit them anyway.

Finally this is a conspiracy theory:

"The Brit coroner, if he did typing for DNA found on/in Hannah, could shed light on this. However, we don't know if the Brits did DNA testing, and if they did, would they risk diplomatic tsunami by announcing results, if the results differed from Thai claims. There is a way out for the Brits, in diplomatic perspective. They can simply say they don't have DNA typing from suspects, which is true, because Thai experts won't share suspects' DNA with the Brits. Thais won't share Nomsod's, and probably not Mon's. And Thai probably didn't even do DNA test on the Stingray Man or Mon's cop friend, even though all those mentioned should be suspects. In sum: Thai cops are likely allowing rapists and murderers to roam free on the island - to strike again, knowing they're untouchable."

[Willy Eckerslike]

What I have said over and over again is that I want to see how the evidence stands up to scrutiny in court, and in the meantime I take a stand about people that spread speculation based on at best third hand accounts, partial information, conflicting reports, outright misinformation and not a small dose of prejudice.

If you believe in that, then can you tell me that you honor the claim of the two defendants that they were tortured and force to plead guilty. You need to give it as much weight as the police. They never receive the justice, as the police refuses to answer to the human rights people. And this is very relevant, as it will change the course of the police investigation. If found to be true. Remember, the law needs oversight as well. You can never surrender your rights and freedom to the government. They must be held accountable. But RTP would like to stay above the law. If they didn't do such a thing, they have nothing to be scared of. Migrant workers are guest to Thailand. They come to do work that Thais do not want to do. Everyone should be thankful for that, in any country. We should never be prejudice against them.

Use your logic this time and tell me, why the police refuse to answer these allegation with the human rights people? So going into trial with the police having an unfair advantage is not a trial. These are things that makes everything stink about the whole investigation.

Logic says that they have not gone to trial, so they are not guilty. If they not guilty, then they the proper respect of any human being. And that is what I believe and that is what I am advocating here, along with everyone who believes in saving humanity. Because it's worth saving.

If it takes speculation as you call it, but I call it putting it to theory. Even police investigation starts with speculation. The what ifs. As we have here, and add it all up, the probability of some of the speculation appears to be high. But since no one has access to key evidence or question it, it will appear to be speculation. But it doesn't mean that it's not valid. Just that it hasn't been proven yet. And with all the speculation, there is bound to be one that can stand on it's own.

• My speculation, is that wounds on the male victim can not have been from just the hoe. So it's not probable that these two murdered the two.
• My speculation is that the two victims did not have intimate relationship with each other on the beach, as they are hardly seen together that night. Even from the CCTV footage.
• My speculation is that the two in jail, did not get so excited to need to grab a hoe to raped and kill the two victims.
• My speculation is that the male victim did not fight the two accused off, as they don't even have any marks on them.
• My speculation is that the entire investigation will look quite weak and will be thrown out. Then the police will blame each other for their incompetence and that everyone will just forget about this as they know nothing ever changes. And the killer will still be on the loose because the crime scene was so contaminated. And that was the idea in the first place to contaminate it so that they can protect the killer.
• My speculation is that the killer is well connected enough for the police to protect them.

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, it's not the same as being tortured. Besides that they also confessed to the crime to a Myanmar delegation and the Human Rights Commission, did they torture them into confession too?

In any case if they were tortured that doesn't make them innocent, it means there are two cases to answer for, the murder of the two British tourists and the torture allegations; furthermore confessions are not the deciding factor in a case, physical evidence is the most relevant.

You speculations and conspiracy theories bore me, come back when you have anything to back them up.

[Willy Eckerslike]

People.... stop trying to convice the Gang of 4 about anything.

They are not here to be convinced or to debate or to discuss.

Their JOB is to deny deny deny. That is what they are here for. They have no other purpose here.

IMO. the best strategy is to ignore them completely and they will run out of oxygen fairly quickly. Not necessay to put them on the ignore list if you don't want to..... just pretend they are not here making a noise.

OTOH, if you like bashing your head against the wall. ... feel free to feed them.

Just remember ........ THEIR JOB is to present the official mantra. You need to understand this point!

I agree.............. send them to Coventry

And stop reposting them. So nobody gets to see the important information. Like the Brits coppers not doing any investigating, but the family giving a carefully worded press release, that led people to believe the brit cops supported the Thai cop investigation. Which we now know is not true .

The UK investigators did what they said they were going to do all along, observe the evidence from the case and the work done by the RTP; it tells a lot about the people that just know what's really going on that they are surprised with their latest statement, if they'd spent less time lost in their speculation bubble and more time in the real world things would be less confusing to them.

The Metropolitan Police says there's Confusion and Inconsistences in the Investigation in Thailand into the murders of two British Tourists on the Island of Koh Tao. Hanna Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September, Scotland Yard which is observing the Thai enquiry says there are questions about the strength of the case against two men from Burma charged with Murder.

Clear enough for you..................

Edited December 26, 2014 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[uty6543]

What I have said over and over again is that I want to see how the evidence stands up to scrutiny in court, and in the meantime I take a stand about people that spread speculation based on at best third hand accounts, partial information, conflicting reports, outright misinformation and not a small dose of prejudice.

If you believe in that, then can you tell me that you honor the claim of the two defendants that they were tortured and force to plead guilty. You need to give it as much weight as the police. They never receive the justice, as the police refuses to answer to the human rights people. And this is very relevant, as it will change the course of the police investigation. If found to be true. Remember, the law needs oversight as well. You can never surrender your rights and freedom to the government. They must be held accountable. But RTP would like to stay above the law. If they didn't do such a thing, they have nothing to be scared of. Migrant workers are guest to Thailand. They come to do work that Thais do not want to do. Everyone should be thankful for that, in any country. We should never be prejudice against them.

Use your logic this time and tell me, why the police refuse to answer these allegation with the human rights people? So going into trial with the police having an unfair advantage is not a trial. These are things that makes everything stink about the whole investigation.

Logic says that they have not gone to trial, so they are not guilty. If they not guilty, then they the proper respect of any human being. And that is what I believe and that is what I am advocating here, along with everyone who believes in saving humanity. Because it's worth saving.

If it takes speculation as you call it, but I call it putting it to theory. Even police investigation starts with speculation. The what ifs. As we have here, and add it all up, the probability of some of the speculation appears to be high. But since no one has access to key evidence or question it, it will appear to be speculation. But it doesn't mean that it's not valid. Just that it hasn't been proven yet. And with all the speculation, there is bound to be one that can stand on it's own.

• My speculation, is that wounds on the male victim can not have been from just the hoe. So it's not probable that these two murdered the two.
• My speculation is that the two victims did not have intimate relationship with each other on the beach, as they are hardly seen together that night. Even from the CCTV footage.
• My speculation is that the two in jail, did not get so excited to need to grab a hoe to raped and kill the two victims.
• My speculation is that the male victim did not fight the two accused off, as they don't even have any marks on them.
• My speculation is that the entire investigation will look quite weak and will be thrown out. Then the police will blame each other for their incompetence and that everyone will just forget about this as they know nothing ever changes. And the killer will still be on the loose because the crime scene was so contaminated. And that was the idea in the first place to contaminate it so that they can protect the killer.
• My speculation is that the killer is well connected enough for the police to protect them.

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, it's not the same as being tortured. Besides that they also confessed to the crime to a Myanmar delegation and the Human Rights Commission, did they torture them into confession too?

In any case if they were tortured that doesn't make them innocent, it means there are two cases to answer for, the murder of the two British tourists and the torture allegations; furthermore confessions are not the deciding factor in a case, physical evidence is the most relevant.

You speculations and conspiracy theories bore me, come back when you have anything to back them up.

And you want to teach critical thinking when all you do is follow the RTP line. (Critical thinking is the study of clear, reasoned thinking. Critical thinking means making clear, reasoned judgements. While in the process of critical thinking, your thoughts should be reasoned and well thought out/judged.) Your posts do not follow this logic.

Your understanding of torture is nil.

Your repetitions bore me.

[jaidam]

What I have said over and over again is that I want to see how the evidence stands up to scrutiny in court, and in the meantime I take a stand about people that spread speculation based on at best third hand accounts, partial information, conflicting reports, outright misinformation and not a small dose of prejudice.

If you believe in that, then can you tell me that you honor the claim of the two defendants that they were tortured and force to plead guilty. You need to give it as much weight as the police. They never receive the justice, as the police refuses to answer to the human rights people. And this is very relevant, as it will change the course of the police investigation. If found to be true. Remember, the law needs oversight as well. You can never surrender your rights and freedom to the government. They must be held accountable. But RTP would like to stay above the law. If they didn't do such a thing, they have nothing to be scared of. Migrant workers are guest to Thailand. They come to do work that Thais do not want to do. Everyone should be thankful for that, in any country. We should never be prejudice against them.

Use your logic this time and tell me, why the police refuse to answer these allegation with the human rights people? So going into trial with the police having an unfair advantage is not a trial. These are things that makes everything stink about the whole investigation.

Logic says that they have not gone to trial, so they are not guilty. If they not guilty, then they the proper respect of any human being. And that is what I believe and that is what I am advocating here, along with everyone who believes in saving humanity. Because it's worth saving.

If it takes speculation as you call it, but I call it putting it to theory. Even police investigation starts with speculation. The what ifs. As we have here, and add it all up, the probability of some of the speculation appears to be high. But since no one has access to key evidence or question it, it will appear to be speculation. But it doesn't mean that it's not valid. Just that it hasn't been proven yet. And with all the speculation, there is bound to be one that can stand on it's own.

• My speculation, is that wounds on the male victim can not have been from just the hoe. So it's not probable that these two murdered the two.
• My speculation is that the two victims did not have intimate relationship with each other on the beach, as they are hardly seen together that night. Even from the CCTV footage.
• My speculation is that the two in jail, did not get so excited to need to grab a hoe to raped and kill the two victims.
• My speculation is that the male victim did not fight the two accused off, as they don't even have any marks on them.
• My speculation is that the entire investigation will look quite weak and will be thrown out. Then the police will blame each other for their incompetence and that everyone will just forget about this as they know nothing ever changes. And the killer will still be on the loose because the crime scene was so contaminated. And that was the idea in the first place to contaminate it so that they can protect the killer.
• My speculation is that the killer is well connected enough for the police to protect them.

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, it's not the same as being tortured. Besides that they also confessed to the crime to a Myanmar delegation and the Human Rights Commission, did they torture them into confession too?

In any case if they were tortured that doesn't make them innocent, it means there are two cases to answer for, the murder of the two British tourists and the torture allegations; furthermore confessions are not the deciding factor in a case, physical evidence is the most relevant.

You speculations and conspiracy theories bore me, come back when you have anything to back them up.

3 Burmese confessed initially. There are only 2 Burmese being tried. Care to explain why the 3rd Burmese confessed if he was NOT tortured?

[StealthEnergiser]

As another poster suggested earlier I think it much better not to answer the gang of 4 and stop feeding them they may take hint.

Edited December 26, 2014 by StealthEnergiser

[greenchair]

Just to note that Andy Hall has started tweeting live from the Samui Courthouse at @atomicalandy

@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Defence lawyers prepare to request court to postpone hearing as documents/witness issues not satisfactorily prepared, timeline too tight

Could this be the message aleg is trying to distract you all from. Pay attention folks.

[siampolee]

Interesting to note that some of the ''happy ''Koh Tao crowd who were posting in the thread seem to somewhat conspicuous by their absence of late.

Now I wonder why that may be?

Told to pipe down as people were coming to look a little to closely at a clique that was mentioned in press circles yet has to a degree flown under the radar?

Perhaps we might soon get to the ''bottom'' of the matter.

[uty6543]

As another poster suggested earlier I think it much better not to answer the gang of 4 and stop feeding them they may take hint.

I think they will give up very soon as the evidence is challenged. Also now the British police have said the investigation has inconsistencies that makes it a long list of credible supporters the B2 have.

The only support the other side has is corrupt Thai officialdom.

[draftvader]

Another poster found this interesting comments from Met Police.

BBC News at approx 01:01:48

Met police Confusions and inconsistencies

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04ttl5c

Copied from the news above,

The Metropolitan Police says there's Confusion and Inconsistences in the Investigation in Thailand into the murders of two British Tourists on the Island of Koh Tao. Hanna Witheridge and David Miller were killed in September, Scotland Yard which is observing the Thai enquiry says there are questions about the strength of the case against two men from Burma charged with Murder.

Just to clarify this transcript was done by me from the audio. There is no other record of this out there on the internet. Please read the thread that was opened then closed on this to see where we got to.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/786859-kho-tao-murders-bbc-news/

Not sure what you are clarifying there bud.....you should have wrote.............. "I also transcribed the above"...............because that transcript above was done by me...it is not plagiarised............If I had have known of that thread started by KhunDave it would have saved me the time it took to transcribe it............probably longer than it did you............anyways thanks for posting the thread and kudos to KhunDave for starting it.

Yours suffers the same as mine in that I think there are 1 or 2 inaccuracies with punctuation, etc. Pointing out that a non-professional did the work removes that unnecessary argument from the equation. Without you clarifying the source there will be some debate, etc.

[Willy Eckerslike]

@ draftvader " Without you clarifying the source there will be some debate, etc."

So when I wrote...."Copied from the news above" ....is not clarifying the source, what was the source?

[greenchair]

Just to note that Andy Hall has started tweeting live from the Samui Courthouse at @atomicalandy

@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Defence lawyers prepare to request court to postpone hearing as documents/witness issues not satisfactorily prepared, timeline too tight

Could this be the message aleg is trying to distract you all from. Pay attention folks.

Any news?

[JLCrab]

Just to note that Andy Hall has started tweeting live from the Samui Courthouse at @atomicalandy

@Atomicalandy 2m2 minutes ago

Defence lawyers prepare to request court to postpone hearing as documents/witness issues not satisfactorily prepared, timeline too tight

Could this be the message aleg is trying to distract you all from. Pay attention folks.

Any news?

Last tweet from Andy Hall about an hour ago:

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 1h1 hour ago

Parents and families of Wei Phyo/Zaw Lin (Koh Tao case accused) just arrived in court during case hearing with Myanmar monks

Before that about 2 hours ago:

Andy Hall ‏@Atomicalandy 2h2 hours ago

Head of Koh Tao case defense legal team Nakhon Chompuchat arrives to Koh Samui court to request case postponement

Edited December 26, 2014 by JLCrab

[AleG]

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, it's not the same as being tortured. Besides that they also confessed to the crime to a Myanmar delegation and the Human Rights Commission, did they torture them into confession too?

In any case if they were tortured that doesn't make them innocent, it means there are two cases to answer for, the murder of the two British tourists and the torture allegations; furthermore confessions are not the deciding factor in a case, physical evidence is the most relevant.

You speculations and conspiracy theories bore me, come back when you have anything to back them up.

3 Burmese confessed initially. There are only 2 Burmese being tried. Care to explain why the 3rd Burmese confessed if he was NOT tortured?

Confessed what? Can you provide a link to the three of them confessing to the murders?

[AleG]

The Burmese claimed they were threatened with torture, it's not the same as being tortured. Besides that they also confessed to the crime to a Myanmar delegation and the Human Rights Commission, did they torture them into confession too?

In any case if they were tortured that doesn't make them innocent, it means there are two cases to answer for, the murder of the two British tourists and the torture allegations; furthermore confessions are not the deciding factor in a case, physical evidence is the most relevant.

You speculations and conspiracy theories bore me, come back when you have anything to back them up.

And you want to teach critical thinking when all you do is follow the RTP line. (Critical thinking is the study of clear, reasoned thinking. Critical thinking means making clear, reasoned judgements. While in the process of critical thinking, your thoughts should be reasoned and well thought out/judged.) Your posts do not follow this logic.

Your understanding of torture is nil.

Your repetitions bore me.

If you have to pick up a dictionary to look up the definition of critical thinking I don't think you are in a position to lecture on the matter.

Case in point "Your posts do not follow this logic", "Your understanding of torture is nil" and "Your posts do not follow this logic" are assertions without arguments to back them up.

[draftvader]

@ draftvader " Without you clarifying the source there will be some debate, etc."

So when I wrote...."Copied from the news above" ....is not clarifying the source, what was the source?

This is not picking. I am with you. Anyway, "copied" implies, at least to me, that you copied the text from the news item above due to the nature of this word when used in an technical environment. What you actually did was transcribe. Being that there was no text to copy I assumed you had copied mine from the thread that bought the news item to our attention. Nonetheless this is insignificant when you consider what we are discussing and I really didn't want to make this the debate. Thank you for bringing the content from yesterday into the main debate. I just didn't have the time as my little girl awoke from her afternoon nap and I didn't come back on ThaiVisa again as it was her day yesterday

[boomerangutang]

Wow, interesting. Now Burmese monks are added to the mix (post #1841). The plot thickens.

The DNA only cleared him of not having any sexual contact, it does NOT clear him of any other potential crime committed!!

Allow me to re-write the 1st part of that sentence: "The DNA may have cleared him of not having any sexual contact" Many suspect that Thai officials messed with the DNA. Unless/until Brit experts independently show their DNA results, none but officials and the Gang of 4 will believe the DNA trail, as told by Thai officialdom.

Your premise is right, though: proof of Nomsod not raping Hannah, is not proof that Nomsod is innocent of any crimes - although the self-appointed Thai PM can't fathom that concept.

As another poster suggested earlier I think it much better not to answer the gang of 4 and stop feeding them they may take hint.

jdinasia hasn't been posting on these threads lately. It's been mostly AleG who has taken it upon him/herself to carry the torch for Thai officialdom. In a way, it's good to know what the other side is thinking, so keep it up, AleG.

[AleG]

What I have said over and over again is that I want to see how the evidence stands up to scrutiny in court, and in the meantime I take a stand about people that spread speculation based on at best third hand accounts, partial information, conflicting reports, outright misinformation and not a small dose of prejudice.

If you believe in that, then can you tell me that you honor the claim of the two defendants that they were tortured and force to plead guilty. You need to give it as much weight as the police. They never receive the justice, as the police refuses to answer to the human rights people. And this is very relevant, as it will change the course of the police investigation. If found to be true. Remember, the law needs oversight as well. You can never surrender your rights and freedom to the government. They must be held accountable. But RTP would like to stay above the law. If they didn't do such a thing, they have nothing to be scared of. Migrant workers are guest to Thailand. They come to do work that Thais do not want to do. Everyone should be thankful for that, in any country. We should never be prejudice against them.

Use your logic this time and tell me, why the police refuse to answer these allegation with the human rights people? So going into trial with the police having an unfair advantage is not a trial. These are things that makes everything stink about the whole investigation.

Logic says that they have not gone to trial, so they are not guilty. If they not guilty, then they the proper respect of any human being. And that is what I believe and that is what I am advocating here, along with everyone who believes in saving humanity. Because it's worth saving.

If it takes speculation as you call it, but I call it putting it to theory. Even police investigation starts with speculation. The what ifs. As we have here, and add it all up, the probability of some of the speculation appears to be high. But since no one has access to key evidence or question it, it will appear to be speculation. But it doesn't mean that it's not valid. Just that it hasn't been proven yet. And with all the speculation, there is bound to be one that can stand on it's own.

• My speculation, is that wounds on the male victim can not have been from just the hoe. So it's not probable that these two murdered the two.
• My speculation is that the two victims did not have intimate relationship with each other on the beach, as they are hardly seen together that night. Even from the CCTV footage.
• My speculation is that the two in jail, did not get so excited to need to grab a hoe to raped and kill the two victims.
• My speculation is that the male victim did not fight the two accused off, as they don't even have any marks on them.
• My speculation is that the entire investigation will look quite weak and will be thrown out. Then the police will blame each other for their incompetence and that everyone will just forget about this as they know nothing ever changes. And the killer will still be on the loose because the crime scene was so contaminated. And that was the idea in the first place to contaminate it so that they can protect the killer.
• My speculation is that the killer is well connected enough for the police to protect them.

Now with a bit more time let me explain why your speculation bores me.

It bores me because a professional investigator would use speculation as a starting point and then check it against the real world, physical evidence, witness testimony, etc, etc... On the other hand the speculation from you and your fellow speculators has as the only source of material third hand accounts (at best), conflicting press reports, outright misinformation and other inbred speculation granted the status of "fact".

Basically, it's an echo chamber, largely independent of actual facts and primary sources.

[AleG]

Wow, interesting. Now Burmese monks are added to the mix (post #1841). The plot thickens.

The DNA only cleared him of not having any sexual contact, it does NOT clear him of any other potential crime committed!!

Allow me to re-write the 1st part of that sentence: "The DNA may have cleared him of not having any sexual contact" Many suspect that Thai officials messed with the DNA. Unless/until Brit experts independently show their DNA results, none but officials and the Gang of 4 will believe the DNA trail, as told by Thai officialdom.

Your premise is right, though: proof of Nomsod not raping Hannah, is not proof that Nomsod is innocent of any crimes - although the self-appointed Thai PM can't fathom that concept.

As another poster suggested earlier I think it much better not to answer the gang of 4 and stop feeding them they may take hint.

jdinasia hasn't been posting on these threads lately. It's been mostly AleG who has taken it upon him/herself to carry the torch for Thai officialdom. In a way, it's good to know what the other side is thinking, so keep it up, AleG.

"Wow, interesting. Now Burmese monks are added to the mix (post #1841). The plot thickens."

Thickening implies that more substance is added, monks and religion have bugger all to do with the case.

[StealthEnergiser]

These pictures are allegedly of nomsod with the limp wrist can be found all over the net many people suspect he was on the island the night of the deaths according to news reports threats have been made to hush people up the police should make it a priority to find who the running man is as it may help in finding out the truth about this case.

Edited December 26, 2014 by StealthEnergiser