Family of Brits murdered in Thailand say evidence convincing

[Willy Eckerslike]

The report said the families back the police investigation,

which police are they talking about, the Thai or the UK's?

Use your head --- only one police department investigated the case and are involved in filing and bringing charges. The UK police just reported on and examined the Thai investigation and evidence the Thai police already collected. The statement is very clear in showing gratitude to the Thai police for letting the UK police review the case and to the UK police for doing so and reporting directly back to the parents about the strength and credibility of the case.

Dislike.jpg.................................Nowhere in either report do they use the term.........strength and credibility of the case.

"The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing." Isn't that close enough???? http://crimeandjustice.co.uk/2014/12/05/thailand-murder-investigation-statements-on-behalf-of-families-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller/

Hang on a minuet......"appears to be powerful and convincing"......................is not the same as.............. "the strength and credibility"................

appears to be is not definite..........

[FangFerang]

Good to read this is at least moving in a way that the two families give it credibility. Still, I have to laugh at all the posts that are saying "I have been saying all along that..." and "I knew the TVF posters were conspiracy theorists..." and "I never doubted the police for a minute".

Um, no one would have such ideas unless there was a history of corruption, evidence gone missing, witnesses actually murdered, governments and oppositions killing each others' supporters, judicial practices with highly questionable outcomes -- and that's the tip of the polluted Thai historical Iceberg of Ethics.

Every single aspect of possible conspiracy that someone fielded as a post had been documented in real cases before this all happened on the little island.

Shenanigans are the norm here, not due process. Deceit is the unwritten rule, and defamation charges are ways to enforce it.

In such a climate, suspicion will necessarily breed like cockroaches in a landfill. To say there were not questionable facts related to the case is blatantly foolish. To say the accused are guilty is unjust.

I will wait and see, and have had a lot of credibility issues resolved after I read the family's statements (thanks for the links, by the way). Nonetheless, the credibility ledger is not entirely clear by any means.

[tingtong]

you know, while it is sometimes hard to believe what to think about who the murderers might be, these kids, or someone else;

I would for sure like to see a follow-up on all the other things connected to this, such as:

-why the police had to torture these kids, and on what base. when will be those involved punished?

-what happened to the claim that there was 3 DNAs found. where is the 3rd?

-what happened to numerous (and fake) witnesses, pointing to this or that person to be the killer, (if these kids are, then clearly fake, are they punished?)

-what happened to the proof CCTV footage, and those who fake them by editing it? why had to if such strong evidence present?

-who and why decided to deny these kids to have a layer present from the beginning? confession or not. was within his right? punished?

-who decided that instead of contacting with Myanmar embassy for a certified translator, can find anyone from the street to presume to do the same professional job, when life or death depends on answers

-how come they were missed out from the first round DNA tests, but moreover how come the village headman' s family too, where they were quite directly connected to the case, the brit couple been seen their bar short before with friend?

-how come some DNA test in Thailand takes hours, vs. in my EU country recently was mentioned a cross border case where they expect a criminal level DNA test to take about 3 weeks.

etc, etc.

even if these kids are the murderer, what I personally have difficulties to believe; I would like to see/read the follow up on about all the above issues and more, to feel that the police is in fact doing a good job.

[scorecard]

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Use your head --- only one police department investigated the case and are involved in filing and bringing charges. The UK police just reported on and examined the Thai investigation and evidence the Thai police already collected. The statement is very clear in showing gratitude to the Thai police for letting the UK police review the case and to the UK police for doing so and reporting directly back to the parents about the strength and credibility of the case.

Nowhere in either report do they use the term.........strength and credibility of the case.

"The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing." Isn't that close enough????

Hang on a minuet......"appears to be powerful and convincing"......................is not the same as.............. "the strength and credibility"................

appears to be is not definite..........

With all respect to the grieving parents:

- Did someone (with some appropriate authority) put all the evidence in front of the parents to read and then ask the parents for a comment?

- Do the parents know how to evaluate the evidence and know how it might be challenged in legal terms, and then come up with a word like 'convincing'?

[wandasloan]

That said it would be good if the courts here were open to the public and media but everything is done behind closed doors which again just leads to doubt

The courts here are open to the public and media. The first court session on this Koh Tao case is on Monday. Toddle along and see it if you wish. It's only to hear the formal pleas of the two accused men, but it will be open to the public and media like all the coming trial. Like almost all trials, excepting lese majeste ones.

.

[sweatalot]

The report said the families back the police investigation,

which police are they talking about, the Thai or the UK's?

Use your head --- only one police department investigated the case and are involved in filing and bringing charges. The UK police just reported on and examined the Thai investigation and evidence the Thai police already collected. The statement is very clear in showing gratitude to the Thai police for letting the UK police review the case and to the UK police for doing so and reporting directly back to the parents about the strength and credibility of the case.

Dislike.jpg.................................Nowhere in either report do they use the term.........strength and credibility of the case.

"The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing." Isn't that close enough???? http://crimeandjustice.co.uk/2014/12/05/thailand-murder-investigation-statements-on-behalf-of-families-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller/

Definitely not.

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. "

Does this mean they are guilty? With wrong (facilitated) evidence whioch is made looking true they would have a difficult case to answer. Wouldn't they?

"The evidence appears ... " is not the same as " the evidence is ..convincing" it just appears. Understand?

Reading the statements I did not find any sentence thanking the Thai police for their good work. They just wrote

We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit.

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

"The work that has been carried out ..." is not the same as "the work by RTP or the work by the British police and RTP"

" the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case."

Strong evidence by the RTP? like planted trousers e.g.?

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us."

Note they are talking about evidence presented by the Brit police. They are not saying the evidence is true.

I am not saying this view is right. But reading critically I cannot find any claim of the families that the B2 are guilty.

And what evidence has to be secret until the trial? May be the evidence found ba the Brits?

[Fat Haggis]

The report said the families back the police investigation,

which police are they talking about, the Thai or the UK's?

Use your head --- only one police department investigated the case and are involved in filing and bringing charges. The UK police just reported on and examined the Thai investigation and evidence the Thai police already collected. The statement is very clear in showing gratitude to the Thai police for letting the UK police review the case and to the UK police for doing so and reporting directly back to the parents about the strength and credibility of the case.

Dislike.jpg.................................Nowhere in either report do they use the term.........strength and credibility of the case.

"The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing." Isn't that close enough???? http://crimeandjustice.co.uk/2014/12/05/thailand-murder-investigation-statements-on-behalf-of-families-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller/

I have read this part of their statement many many times and I can read it several ways, in that the evidence is irrefutable and they're guilty as sin, or that the evidence presented by the RTP is powerful and convincing because it has to be!!

I have not read anywhere where they have thanked the RTP for a conclusive and swift and outstanding investigation that has resulted in the guilty having been detained and let justice prevail.

I don't know about anyone else but the lack of acknowledgement towards the RTP speaks volumes to me. Don't forget it was the RTP who posted the horrendous photos in their personal Facebook pages. ?

[partington]

It was always the DNA evidence that was crucial in this case. If the DNA evidence is unambiguous, and real then the Burmese are guilty.

In a rape case it must be 90% of the evidence, since once you have an incontrovertible match, it not only proves that the matched suspects were the assailants, but also proves they were at the location, and at the time the crime was done. Almost all the elements for a conviction are there.

DNA evidence is not foolproof ,but it is more foolproof than any other kind of evidence. It is an identification method , and if the profile is clear it is an identification method that is hundreds of times more reliable than actual fingerprints. If it is not clear, exactly analogous to finding a partial fingerprint, then it becomes a matter for scientific discussion. It would be easy to discuss in a courtroom, with reasons, why a 3/4 or 1/2 fingerprint is almost as good an identification as a whole one, and why a 20% fingerprint shouldn't be used to determine identity.

DNA evidence is analysed and presented in the same way. However this needs a high degree of expertise to evaluate, and a degree of expertise that is not possessed by families of victims, or even by police officers. It needs a forensic expert with a Ph.D.

DNA evidence from a rape is not trace evidence. It is a massively rich source of DNA , and moreover it is inside a body, so not open to chance contamination. Even after collection, to contaminate sperm DNA by say touching it to a surface with finger DNA on it would be like trying to contaminate a warehouse full of rice by throwing an apple into it. There is simply so much more DNA from sperm that a trace source would be immediately identifiable because there is so little of it.

Moreover sperm DNA is processed in the lab in a way that only produces DNA from sperm and not from ordinary body cells. This is done to reduce contamination from the major source-cells from the body of the actual victim. So if this method was used the source of your sample can only be sperm, and not say a cheek cell sample you have added later.

So there are questions to be asked that only experts could ask , about the DNA sample and the detailed DNA report. If you believe the Burmese are innocent, you must believe the DNA evidence that links them to the crime is compromised or faked.

To know whether this was the case you need to be an expert, or have the advice of an expert, and that expert needs to have seen the actual data from the machines that did the DNA testing, from the original lab's records.

IN a court report a DNA result is expressed as a list of 26 numbers. That's almost all. Faking a result at this level is simply a matter of hypothetically typing 26 numbers that suit your case instead of the 26 numbers that actually came out of the test machine.

If the Met Police went this far I would trust their recommendation. If not, I would still have worries.

[asiamaster]

Interesting to see that after quite a few people posted links to articles from various media about the statements of the parents of the victims that CSILA has gone completely quiet. He cant be sleeping now as it is not even midnight yet in LA.

He must have seen this coming as he did not have much to report the last couple of weeks anyhow.

But who knows? He might have a new conspiracy up his sleeve.... He is not a bad investigator though and did come up with some interesting observations in the earlier stages. I looked at his earlier "cases" such as MH370, he does quite well for a while but then he starts losing the plot. The problem with many of such guys is that they start to bring in all kinds of nonsense and blow things out of proportion and then just don't know when to stop...

[StealthEnergiser]

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I just hope the families haven't been reading the absolute crap that went on for thousands of posts from the conspiracy theorists on here and if not grizzly photos then the description of the crime scene in graphic detail.

I said it before and I will say again shame on all of you that know as much about this case as me and that's f&$K all.

Bloody disgraceful!

The 'absolute crap' I am assuming is inclusive of the social media sources as well?

IMHO, this case highlights both the need to keep information of a specific case restricted to a 'need to know' basis (ie, no independent interviews and comments from police sources) and the control of speculation on certain social media outlets.

Both of the above damage the case to an extent where the evidence is flawed before even getting into the courtroom.

To clarify, I am all for freedom of speech, but also understand that nor everyone, at their whim, is entitled to all the facts whenever they wish. Some things need to be kept out of the public domain.

Agree. The biggest blunder police made in the case was trying to keep people informed and being too confident. This case was solved fairly quickly but any case like this in any place is going to have police chasing the wrong suspects and thinking somebody is involved they discover isn't and they are going to have completely wrong information early on --- the difference is that police in many other places wouldn't make any of these early beliefs known and would keep their mouth shut about suspects until the confirmed and typically made an arrest.

It really amazes me how many people use as proof early comments by police to fuel conspiracy theories while disregarding the information and statements as they evolved after further investigation. While the police certainly should have kept their mouth shut, there is also no excuse for people being so obtuse and latching onto to one thing police say as gold and then ignoring all the other facts and statements since nothing they say can be trusted.

John your brainless one sided answers help no one for the sake of families please refrain from commenting , the case has not been solved there is a long way to go .

[RBOP]

To the many trolls, arm chair investigators, conspiracy theorists, anti-Thai propagandists here. As the parents stated "speculation should be suspended until all evidence is made public."

[Strangebrew]

Is this the same office that said Thailand has the cure for Ebola too?

[Docno]

Use your head --- only one police department investigated the case and are involved in filing and bringing charges. The UK police just reported on and examined the Thai investigation and evidence the Thai police already collected. The statement is very clear in showing gratitude to the Thai police for letting the UK police review the case and to the UK police for doing so and reporting directly back to the parents about the strength and credibility of the case.

Dislike.jpg.................................Nowhere in either report do they use the term.........strength and credibility of the case.

"The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing." Isn't that close enough???? http://crimeandjustice.co.uk/2014/12/05/thailand-murder-investigation-statements-on-behalf-of-families-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller/

Definitely not.

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. "

Does this mean they are guilty? With wrong (facilitated) evidence whioch is made looking true they would have a difficult case to answer. Wouldn't they?

"The evidence appears ... " is not the same as " the evidence is ..convincing" it just appears. Understand?

Reading the statements I did not find any sentence thanking the Thai police for their good work. They just wrote

We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit.

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."

"The work that has been carried out ..." is not the same as "the work by RTP or the work by the British police and RTP"

" the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case."

Strong evidence by the RTP? like planted trousers e.g.?

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us."

Note they are talking about evidence presented by the Brit police. They are not saying the evidence is true.

I am not saying this view is right. But reading critically I cannot find any claim of the families that the B2 are guilty.

And what evidence has to be secret until the trial? May be the evidence found ba the Brits?

Look, the family is being smart about this. Their basic points are these:

1. The prosecution's evidence is convincing

2. The suspects need to be given a fair trial

2b. ...this includes the evidence/arguments of the defense being given the same close scrutiny as that of the prosecution/police

Of course they're not going to say the suspects are guilty! The trial hasn't begun and no-one knows how they defense might play it. But they are saying, based on what they've seen, that the defense will have an uphill battle to get the suspects off.

[friendlyfiend]

I just hope the families haven't been reading the absolute crap that went on for thousands of posts from the conspiracy theorists on here and if not grizzly photos then the description of the crime scene in graphic detail.

I said it before and I will say again shame on all of you that know as much about this case as me and that's f&$K all.

Bloody disgraceful!

Thank you sir. My thoughts exactly!

[JohnThailandJohn]

Use your head --- only one police department investigated the case and are involved in filing and bringing charges. The UK police just reported on and examined the Thai investigation and evidence the Thai police already collected. The statement is very clear in showing gratitude to the Thai police for letting the UK police review the case and to the UK police for doing so and reporting directly back to the parents about the strength and credibility of the case.

Dislike.jpg.................................Nowhere in either report do they use the term.........strength and credibility of the case.

"The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing." Isn't that close enough???? http://crimeandjustice.co.uk/2014/12/05/thailand-murder-investigation-statements-on-behalf-of-families-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller/

I have read this part of their statement many many times and I can read it several ways, in that the evidence is irrefutable and they're guilty as sin, or that the evidence presented by the RTP is powerful and convincing because it has to be!!

I have not read anywhere where they have thanked the RTP for a conclusive and swift and outstanding investigation that has resulted in the guilty having been detained and let justice prevail.

I don't know about anyone else but the lack of acknowledgement towards the RTP speaks volumes to me. Don't forget it was the RTP who posted the horrendous photos in their personal Facebook pages. ?

Did they express anger at the persons responsible for killing their children? Does this mean they must not be angry at those responsible? Since they didn't say the Thai police did a crappy job should we assume they did a great one?

Please stop the nonsense. They released a statement which was geared largely towards making people stop the nonsense and allow the case to play out and hopefully silence some of the nonsense by expressing confidence in the evidence against the accused. They wrote and said what they wanted to communicate -- so please stop the BS. They didn't say a lot but being rational people they thought they said what needed to be said to accomplish what seemed like a clear goal -- Their goal wasn't to have internet detectives now find hidden meanings in their words or actually hidden meanings in words they never used.

[Beetlejuice]

Silly comments to make before a trial but if the family and British police are happy with the investigation then it is probably time for the conspiracy theorists to let this one go.

Let's not forget that there are plenty of scummy Burmese as well as scummy Thais on these islands.

This is a smack in the face for all the crackpot conspiracy theorists and Thai hating extremists. Exactly the opposite to what they want to hear.

I wouldn`t be surprised if the crackpots try to push that the family are involved in a conspiracy with the Thai police next.

It should be obvious to anyone with at least more than 2 brain cells that the family are in knowledge of details and reports that have not been made public as yet, and as I have said in previous threads, I am saving my judgements until this case is concluded.

[JohnThailandJohn]

With all respect to the grieving parents:

- Did someone (with some appropriate authority) put all the evidence in front of the parents to read and then ask the parents for a comment?

- Do the parents know how to evaluate the evidence and know how it might be challenged in legal terms, and then come up with a word like 'convincing'?

What is clear is they have A LOT more information and insight into the evidence than any of us as do the UK police who briefed them on the case and the family clearly has a MUCH MUCH MUCH greater interest in seeing this case concluded with the right people responsible standing trial and they believe there is ample evidence indicating these are the right guys.

[DM07]

Did I miss the part, were all our posts are directly linked to the private eMail- accounts of the victims family?

Reading trough the REAL statements, I also miss praise for the RTP, in Hanah's parents statement even more than in David's parents.

And secondly: sure, the B2 have a difficult case to answer...it was sent back by the prosecution for at least 3 times, so I guess, the RTP had enough time, to come up with enough BS, to make it very hard...including, not providing the defense with the whole case, before bringing it to court!

This case is /was/will be so fantastically flawed, that anything but a "you are free to go" to the B2, will forever leave a black spot on Thailand, its justice-system and the RTP.

And to all the "anti-conspiracy- theorists"...get off your high horse!

I really would love to see you in a case (and I mean this rethorical- as much as I think not the best of you, I wouldn't ACTUALLY see you in a case like this!), where the police acts as scandalous as in this one!

[jomcondo]

because Thailand has been in the business of "covering up" tourist murders for decades it's hardly surprising when people don't believe a word they say.

I just hope the families aren't being duped, after all trade deals trump a couple of backpackers.

[Anthony5]

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Use your head --- only one police department investigated the case and are involved in filing and bringing charges. The UK police just reported on and examined the Thai investigation and evidence the Thai police already collected. The statement is very clear in showing gratitude to the Thai police for letting the UK police review the case and to the UK police for doing so and reporting directly back to the parents about the strength and credibility of the case.

Nowhere in either report do they use the term.........strength and credibility of the case.

"The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing." Isn't that close enough????

Hang on a minuet......"appears to be powerful and convincing"......................is not the same as.............. "the strength and credibility"................

appears to be is not definite..........

With all respect to the grieving parents:

- Did someone (with some appropriate authority) put all the evidence in front of the parents to read and then ask the parents for a comment?

- Do the parents know how to evaluate the evidence and know how it might be challenged in legal terms, and then come up with a word like 'convincing'?

Shall we ask that the parents issue a new statement wherein they use the exact wording as requested demanded by Thaivisa finest ?

[JohnThailandJohn]

Use your head --- only one police department investigated the case and are involved in filing and bringing charges. The UK police just reported on and examined the Thai investigation and evidence the Thai police already collected. The statement is very clear in showing gratitude to the Thai police for letting the UK police review the case and to the UK police for doing so and reporting directly back to the parents about the strength and credibility of the case.

Dislike.jpg.................................Nowhere in either report do they use the term.........strength and credibility of the case.

"The evidence against them appears to be powerful and convincing." Isn't that close enough???? http://crimeandjustice.co.uk/2014/12/05/thailand-murder-investigation-statements-on-behalf-of-families-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller/

Definitely not.

"From what we have seen, the suspects have a difficult case to answer. "[/size]

Does this mean they are guilty? With wrong (facilitated) evidence whioch is made looking true they would have a difficult case to answer. Wouldn't they?

"The evidence appears ... " is not the same as " the evidence is ..convincing" it just appears. Understand?

Reading the statements I did not find any sentence thanking the Thai police for their good work. They just wrote

We would like to thank the officers who travelled to Thailand to review the case and the Royal Thai Police for facilitating their visit.[/size]

"We would like to stress that as a family we are confident in the work that has been carried out into these atrocious crimes."[/size]

"The work that has been carried out ..." is not the same as "the work by RTP or the work by the British police and RTP"[/size]

"[/size] the victims' families said they had seen strong evidence against the suspects and expressed confidence in the case."[/size]

Strong evidence by the RTP? like planted trousers e.g.?[/size]

"There is a great deal of detail and vast areas of investigative work which has been shared with us."[/size]

Note they are talking about evidence presented by the Brit police. They are not saying the evidence is true.[/size]

I am not saying this view is right. But reading critically I cannot find any claim of the families that the B2 are guilty.[/size]

And what evidence has to be secret until the trial? May be the evidence found ba the Brits?[/size]

What in the world are you going on about -- first nobody said the words "strength and credibility of the case" were used by the families or even hinted at that. What is clear to any rational person is the UK police did in fact share with them their thoughts on the strength and credibility of the case based on the family statements.

Now you are going on to argue things not being argued by anybody except yourself including the fact the family didn't say they were guilty as a trial has not happened. They simply expressed confidence in the evidence against these suspects and that there was more we don't know about.

[jomcondo]

why were the thai thugs so interested in hanging sean that night?

[thailandchilli]

Silly comments to make before a trial but if the family and British police are happy with the investigation then it is probably time for the conspiracy theorists to let this one go.

Let's not forget that there are plenty of scummy Burmese as well as scummy Thais on these islands.

This is a smack in the face for all the crackpot conspiracy theorists and Thai hating extremists. Exactly the opposite to what they want to hear.

I wouldn`t be surprised if the crackpots try to push that the family are involved in a conspiracy with the Thai police next.

It should be obvious to anyone with at least more than 2 brain cells that the family are in knowledge of details and reports that have not been made public as yet, and as I have said in previous threads, I am saving my judgements until this case is concluded.

And this is exactly the kind of crap that they are trying to avoid in the future whether it be from speculation or those attacking them. So if you respect the families you will also shut your mouth instead of speculating what the next speculations may be. But I guess you are the 'I told you so' sort of guy. what a hero you are

[jdinasia]

So Cameron took credit by bowing to public pressure for UK police involvement and also probably deflects any further calls for UK police to investigate the murders of Brits abroad because their families and friends know there is no point. Thailand will probably reward the UK with some business deals. After all British embassies under Cameron are only supposed to promote trade. The interests of UK citizens have virtually fallen off the priority list and nearly all consular staff are now locals who have conflicts of interests.

It actually looks as if the timing of this press releases is designed to make the defence lawyers capitulate and advice their clients to plead guilty to try to avoid the death penalty. Anyway the Metropolitan Police does have an unenviable reputation for corruption, even if they are amateurs compared to their Thai counterparts.

The prosecutor's report is incredibly flimsy and weak. With the British police being so supportive of the investigation, bungling and torture included, one would have expected something more substantial. I wonder how the prosecution will explain the strange "hoe" wounds inflicted on David. . I suppose they will just say it's in the police forensic report, so must be true.

Congratulations you not only insult the families of the victims, you add the UK police and FCO and the UK government into your conspiracy theories.

[maxme]

Silly comments to make before a trial but if the family and British police are happy with the investigation then it is probably time for the conspiracy theorists to let this one go.

Let's not forget that there are plenty of scummy Burmese as well as scummy Thais on these islands.

This is a smack in the face for all the crackpot conspiracy theorists and Thai hating extremists. Exactly the opposite to what they want to hear.

I wouldn`t be surprised if the crackpots try to push that the family are involved in a conspiracy with the Thai police next.

It should be obvious to anyone with at least more than 2 brain cells that the family are in knowledge of details and reports that have not been made public as yet, and as I have said in previous threads, I am saving my judgements until this case is concluded.

Thai hating extremists... Jesus wept

[JLCrab]

The release by the FCO is all a well planned diversionary tactic to make the Thai Police and the Prosecution think that the UK forensics personnel and the victim's families are not contesting the major premise of the charges so that they will not be sufficiently diligent and make obvious mistakes during the course of the trial that will show that the wrong persons have been brought to the courthouse and will then make it easier to bring to justice those who actually perpetrated these heinous crimes and thought that they would soon be in the clear.

[jomcondo]

So Cameron took credit by bowing to public pressure for UK police involvement and also probably deflects any further calls for UK police to investigate the murders of Brits abroad because their families and friends know there is no point. Thailand will probably reward the UK with some business deals. After all British embassies under Cameron are only supposed to promote trade. The interests of UK citizens have virtually fallen off the priority list and nearly all consular staff are now locals who have conflicts of interests.

It actually looks as if the timing of this press releases is designed to make the defence lawyers capitulate and advice their clients to plead guilty to try to avoid the death penalty. Anyway the Metropolitan Police does have an unenviable reputation for corruption, even if they are amateurs compared to their Thai counterparts.

The prosecutor's report is incredibly flimsy and weak. With the British police being so supportive of the investigation, bungling and torture included, one would have expected something more substantial. I wonder how the prosecution will explain the strange "hoe" wounds inflicted on David. . I suppose they will just say it's in the police forensic report, so must be true.

Congratulations you not only insult the families of the victims, you add the UK police and FCO and the UK government into your conspiracy theories.

He wrote a very accurate description of the way governments work.

The nature of their game unfortunately is conspiracies conducted in a devious & ruthless manner.

What's more important, billions of baht in trade or a couple of backpackers?

[JOC]

So suddenly overnight the RTP, one of the most corrupt police forces in the world, become the good guys and their investigation classed as perfect, because of a loosely worded comment by a couple of laypeople (no disrespect).

Nowhere in the comment, there is praise for the work done by the RTP. Wonder why?

This case stinks as much, as it did yesterday.

And none of all the question marks have been turned into answers.

[Thai at Heart]

The parents probably don't even have a clue. They will have been shown evidence from RTP. It's not like RTP will have shown hem their version followed by CSI LA/other and asked them 'so whadya think?'.

They consulted with the English detectives. Do you think you know more then they do ?

23 year old Hannah and her friend David Miller were killed on the island of Koh Tao earlier this year. Two Burmese men have been charged with their murder. Hannah's family said tonight they have met with the police officers who traveled to Thailand to review the case. They ask for the details of the case not to be made public before the trial and ask for their privacy to be respected.

They Thaivisa detectives again know it better as professional police officers from the UK who have seen all the evidence. Do you really think those UK police officers would lie to them ?

Had the UK officers been on the scene within 24 hours I would say no. But they rocked up late in the day. For all we know they were probably fed the same stuff. In a world where banks and financial institutions have been found guilty of rigging interest rates do you really think it's not possible for police in a country known to be corrupt to not fudge a case? Anyway I'm not really bothered now. The families need closure so they can move on so if they are happy with this then so be it.

Question to those who do think the right guys have been caught. If you have a hot gf or wife would you be willing to go to Koh tao and spend the evening drinking in AC bar? Not a chance in hell I bet.

Must hurt that even the professionals don't stand with your opinion. If the professionals thought the evidence would have been fabricated they would have told the family.

As for your second question of course I would not have a problem taking her. Even IF its a killers den, do you know how many people go there and not get killed. Or are statistics also fabricated by a unknown hand.

I have always said I don't place much faith in the Thai police but if the Brits think there is a case then I agree with them and not some amateurs with no access to the evidence.

You are missing a big bit of logic.

There is every chance that the Brits have been asked politely to play along with the story about the Burmese so that the thais can save face for a while.

The Burmese will be released, everyone may feign horror and someone else arrested. If the families had come out and said, "we know the Thai system is corrupt and horrible, " do you think that would have inspired the Thais to do a better job?

[sweatalot]

The release by the FCO is all a well planned diversionary tactic to make the Thai Police and the Prosecution think that the UK forensics personnel and the victim's families are not contesting the major premise of the charges so that they will not be sufficiently diligent and make obvious mistakes during the course of the trial that will show that the wrong persons have been brought to the courthouse and will then make it easier to bring to justice those who actually perpetrated these heinous crimes and thought that they would soon be in the clear.

sounds interesting