Myanmar men plead not guilty to murder of British tourists on Koh Tao

[jdinasia]

thailandchilli, on 09 Dec 2014 - 06:34, said:

jdinasia, on 09 Dec 2014 - 06:31, said:

thailandchilli, on 09 Dec 2014 - 06:20, said:

New York Post for crime scene & more than a dozen other online sources for others look if you want to know

http://nypost.com/2014/09/16/thai-police-scour-hotels-for-killer-of-two-british-tourists/

You are deflecting. The CCTV image shorts phone... Source was csila wasn't it?

No, but you carry on with your suppression of justice and a full professional investigation http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Police-use-superimposition-technique-to-identify-k-30243922.html

Funny how some people can claim this particular CCTV image has been doctored, yet claim the CCTV footage of Nomsod taken in Bangkok and used to establish his alibi is genuine. Can't have it both ways I'm afraid

Huh?

By that reasoning, since some banknotes have been forged then all paper currency is forged.

(insert senseless emoji)

[IslandLover]

AleG, on 09 Dec 2014 - 07:21, said:

thailandchilli, on 09 Dec 2014 - 07:16, said:

AleG, on 09 Dec 2014 - 07:07, said:

The post were you first posted that picture on said nothing about it being a photo manipulation, why did you try to pass it as genuine evidence for your misinformation that David's shorts were taken by one of the suspects?

If you classify this as misinformation then we have nothing else to debate.

Footage from the resort where Mr David Miller was residing showed him wearing a cream colored boxer shorts as he was walking toward the beach.

Comparing that footage to another at allocation nearby which captured the image of an Asian male shows the suspicious individual running pass the CCTV camera (from the direction of the crime scene) wearing the exact same shorts. A blue colored pants that was found by the body of Mr David is now believed to belong to the suspect.

This indicated that he mistakenly grabbed the pants of the victim to wear and left his own at the scene in a hurry as shown in the CCTV showing he ran pass hurriedly. http://englishnews.t...sts-murder-case

Again, and try to muster enough dignity to actually answer this time, why did you try to pass a manipulated photograph as genuine evidence?

The image you are referring to is from the Nation newspaper (thailandchilli already posted the link to that article). Nowhere does it say this image has been manipulated in the way you claim, i.e. shorts darkened in colour and phone placed in hand. It talks about forensic image superimposition which is entirely different. Such techniques are usually used to determine facial features.

[z42]

@Jdinasia post 241

Pure 100% deflection and the inevitable "huh?" always follows when your logic is shown to be spurious in the extreme.

We are talking about CCTV relative to the case, and not banknotes here, Thailandchilli's logic is completely valid. So again please explain the intricate details as to why Nomsod's BKK condo CCTV is absolutely, unequivocally genuine and how it could not possible have been altered in any way shape or form by anybody before its entry into the public domain / into the hands of Nomsod's lawyer..

I know what the answer is to this already but I do await your take on this with some relish.

[AleG]

Again, and try to muster enough dignity to actually answer this time, why did you try to pass a manipulated photograph as genuine evidence?

The image you are referring to is from the Nation newspaper (thailandchilli already posted the link to that article). Nowhere does it say this image has been manipulated in the way you claim, i.e. shorts darkened in colour and phone placed in hand. It talks about forensic image superimposition which is entirely different. Such techniques are usually used to determine facial features.

This is the picture he used:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Police-use-superimposition-technique-to-identify-k-30243922.html

"Police have used superimposition, a specialised forensic medical technique, to compare an image of a man captured by a surveillance camera with the pictures of suspects and expect to find the murderers of two British tourists on Ko Tao in a few days."

Since you are a, presumably, honest and dignified individual that you will now condemn and reprimand thailandchilli for trying to pass a manipulated picture as genuine evidence, yes?

[IslandLover]

AleG, on 10 Dec 2014 - 03:09, said:

IslandLover, on 10 Dec 2014 - 02:31, said:

AleG, on 09 Dec 2014 - 07:21, said:

Again, and try to muster enough dignity to actually answer this time, why did you try to pass a manipulated photograph as genuine evidence?

The image you are referring to is from the Nation newspaper (thailandchilli already posted the link to that article). Nowhere does it say this image has been manipulated in the way you claim, i.e. shorts darkened in colour and phone placed in hand. It talks about forensic image superimposition which is entirely different. Such techniques are usually used to determine facial features.

This is the picture he used:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Police-use-superimposition-technique-to-identify-k-30243922.html

"Police have used superimposition, a specialised forensic medical technique, to compare an image of a man captured by a surveillance camera with the pictures of suspects and expect to find the murderers of two British tourists on Ko Tao in a few days."

Since you are a, presumably, honest and dignified individual that you will now condemn and reprimand thailandchilli for trying to pass a manipulated picture as genuine evidence, yes?

The article does not say that particular image has been manipulated. Why do you keep on insisting it has? On second thoughts, don't bother to reply as my ignore list is growing by the minute .

[Oscar2]

KOH SAMUI: -- Two Myanmar workers……

I know that people from Burma are Burmese and that Burma is now Myanmar. But I don’t like the phrase Two Myanmar workers that continually appears in the press. So what can they be? Does Myanmarese work? Or Myanmarian? Myanmarish?

Anything else work?

Two Myanmar workers – don’t like it – am over it.

Continue to use the phrase Burmese. I consider the term Myanmar to be a nod to the multi billionaire, heroin dealing generals who still run the country, despite the excellent PR to the contrary. Nothing has changed, in any substantial sort of way, according to my Burmese friends, and my ex-pat friends who have lived and worked there for years. The US was convinced by the Chinese to drop the boycott, in order to allow the Chinese to buy cheaper supplies for their concessions there. It has all been a big show.

not to get into a disagreement with you as I like your posts but every Burmese person i know proudly refers to their country as "Myanmar".

[Oscar2]

Sjaak, Sjaak, doesn't your post perfectly represent what was stated in mine? Even official statements released by one of the slain victim's parents wherein they themselves utter that the evidence that was shared with them is convincing doesn't seem to get through to you?

Ah so it's a done deal then, just because the parents of the victims say there is convincing evidence, we should all forget about a fair trial for the accused and carry out the punishment.

Apart from the fact that these remarks could actually influence the fairness of the trial, I personally would like to see a fair trail commence in which this convincing evidence is brought forward.

Until such time, calling the accused murdering rapist remains premature.

It's however less premature than to announce to the world that these "poor boys" are absolutely innocent, a popular past-time on TV, and going against the parents request to grant them their right to privacy. I personally am appalled that TV has unfortunately not had the decency to respect their wishes, and ban the subject from the forum. Is it because it sells? Has TV turned into just another senseless paparazzi style publisher?

This thread goes against all decency by allowing these insensible comments to appear inspite of the victims' parents' plea! Shame on you TV!

No that is actually less premature, remember not guilty until proven guilty.

From what we have been told so far, I cannot possibly believe these two are guilty and it indeed looks suspiciously like they are being used as scapegoats. Remember it's not so outrageous as it sounds considering the RTP have done this before.

To be honest, I fail to see how any DNA evidence they might have could possibly be admissible considering half the island was walking at the crime scene.

The RTP have only themselves to blame for this, no need to point at anyone else.

I fail to see how discussing this case would violate the parents privacy. Banning the subject, yeah that would work, maybe they can ask the dear leader to do it, would suit him fine I guess.

Anyway, if during the court hearing convincing, non fabricated evidence will be submitted that proves beyond any doubt that the two indeed did it, I will be the first to admit it.

I personally find that unlikely, but rest assured these two will go down, no matter what, Thai Justice will be served.

we'll have to see how the DNA "evidence" plays out.... remember it was the RTP that tried (unsuccessfully) to extract semen from the Karen tour guide in the Chiang Mai Jones murder case appx. 10 years ago. they tried to get him to masturbate and even did it for him in order to get his DNA inside the victim so they could frame him. when they were unsuccessful, they dumped him, after beating him, on the side of the road.

in the West, a good defense lawyer would get the entire case dismissed on the first hearing of the trial or at a preliminary hearing based on the contaminated crime scene.

[PaPiPuPePo]

I'm not going to respond directly to a particular member who already draws much more attention and repsonses than his comments merit, but want to bring up one thing that I haven't seen anyone else mention, which to me calls his credibility severely, if not completely, into question:

While it is absolutely unfair to be saying that the headman's son, or other family members, are guilty of this heinous crime, and therefore I can't fault this guy at all for defending their right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, this same guy expends thousands of words trying to convince us all that the two Burmese guys are the ones.

Since the case against them is full of holes, there is certainly more circumstantial evidence pointing....elsewhere, and there is more than ample evidence of jaw-dropping lack of transparency and other irregularities in the way justice is served, or not, in similar cases, his unwavering finger-pointing at the the "B2" makes no sense whatsoever unless it's understood as a blatant attempt to deflect suspicion from certain people and direct it at these two guys.

So I simply can't understand why so many people commenting on this case bother engaging this person in debate, it really makes no sense given the above. It's not an either/or proposition, as a number of people have pointed out.

For those interested in how a person can confound an honest debate, I can recommend these two websites: http://www.fallacyfiles.org/index.html, http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html. If I had time and patience enough I'd go back and dig up some of the various instances of the rhetorical tricks explained on these on these websites, some are more obvious than others.

A young man was murdered, a woman was brutalised so savagely it's sickening to think about, two young men (who anyone who's dealt with killers can see are highly unlikely to have done this) are, if they are innocent, living a nightmare and facing the ultimate injustice, and some people blithely play with words. I've stayed away from this long debate out of some disgust, but curiosity got the better of me, and I see the pseudo-debate is still going on. Truely shameful (though that assumes everyone is capable of feeling shame).

[PaPiPuPePo]

I'll add that one part of the "case" against these guys is so ridiculous that while I assume, hopefully, that it's been commented on numerous times, or better dropped from the prosecutor's case (but if so, replaced with what motive?) it should be enough to make it clear this is a house-of-cards case, at best: that the two guys were "aroused" by seeing the two victims having sex, and their reaction was two kill the guy, rape the girl, and then bash her face in with a hoe. Tell that to any real LE professional and they'll laugh out loud (if you're lucky). Violent rape isn't about sex, it's about (extreme) hatred, never mind murder itself. Has this been thoroughly debunked (god forbid I read through all these threads, though I have managed to shorten them by half or so!)?

[jpeg]

Many of you would be all too happy to see these two murdering rapists released, just to prevent a personal existential crisis. Anything, including letting the culprits free would be preferable to eating humble pie! So much for justice in TV blablaland!

Far be it from me to comment on moderation, but why hasn't the above post been deleted ?

Ensures yet another thread on these atrocities going by virtue of the poster's inhumanity/insanity?

[catsanddogs]

Peter Walker

The Guardian, Wednesday 10 December 2014 20.30 GMT

http://www.theguardi...der-uk-tourists

“The British government opposes the death penalty in all circumstances, yet it appears that their actions in this case could be contributing to death sentences for Burmese migrants after an extremely unfair trial. The UK should adhere to their policy on the death penalty and should urge the Thai authorities to conduct a fair and open trial that does not result in the executions of potentially innocent individuals.”[/t-color]

Andy Hall, a British activist who works with Burmese migrants in Thailand and has been assisting the defence team, said the lack of access to the prosecution case made the task of compiling the defence “almost impossible”.[/t-color]

Email [/t-color][email protected] to request they make all evidence available to the defence team in order to provide fairness to the suspects.

[CharlieH]

Off topic post removed

[asiamaster]

Thailand knows Burma cannot fight back diplomatically, that's why they are pushing case rapidly. Only solution is all Burmese labors should leave Thailand immediately for 3 months, so that all resorts and hotels should close down during the high season.

That will never happen as you know. They need there job to help support the family.

If you really want to hurt the Thai economy and bring about significant change then it's the foreign expats who should walk out en mass - only when that happens will you see the Thai gov willing to make changes. Take just Phuket alone ... imagine what it would be like without western money to prop it up.

The Thais if not the Chinese would gladly buy it all up at rock bottom prices.....

[spidermike007]

Sjaak, Sjaak, doesn't your post perfectly represent what was stated in mine? Even official statements released by one of the slain victim's parents wherein they themselves utter that the evidence that was shared with them is convincing doesn't seem to get through to you?

Ah so it's a done deal then, just because the parents of the victims say there is convincing evidence, we should all forget about a fair trial for the accused and carry out the punishment.

Apart from the fact that these remarks could actually influence the fairness of the trial, I personally would like to see a fair trail commence in which this convincing evidence is brought forward.

Until such time, calling the accused murdering rapist remains premature.

It's however less premature than to announce to the world that these "poor boys" are absolutely innocent, a popular past-time on TV, and going against the parents request to grant them their right to privacy. I personally am appalled that TV has unfortunately not had the decency to respect their wishes, and ban the subject from the forum. Is it because it sells? Has TV turned into just another senseless paparazzi style publisher?

This thread goes against all decency by allowing these insensible comments to appear inspite of the victims' parents' plea! Shame on you TV!

No that is actually less premature, remember not guilty until proven guilty.

From what we have been told so far, I cannot possibly believe these two are guilty and it indeed looks suspiciously like they are being used as scapegoats. Remember it's not so outrageous as it sounds considering the RTP have done this before.

To be honest, I fail to see how any DNA evidence they might have could possibly be admissible considering half the island was walking at the crime scene.

The RTP have only themselves to blame for this, no need to point at anyone else.

I fail to see how discussing this case would violate the parents privacy. Banning the subject, yeah that would work, maybe they can ask the dear leader to do it, would suit him fine I guess.

Anyway, if during the court hearing convincing, non fabricated evidence will be submitted that proves beyond any doubt that the two indeed did it, I will be the first to admit it.

I personally find that unlikely, but rest assured these two will go down, no matter what, Thai Justice will be served.

we'll have to see how the DNA "evidence" plays out.... remember it was the RTP that tried (unsuccessfully) to extract semen from the Karen tour guide in the Chiang Mai Jones murder case appx. 10 years ago. they tried to get him to masturbate and even did it for him in order to get his DNA inside the victim so they could frame him. when they were unsuccessful, they dumped him, after beating him, on the side of the road.

in the West, a good defense lawyer would get the entire case dismissed on the first hearing of the trial or at a preliminary hearing based on the contaminated crime scene.

Would love to get my hands on the video of the RTP "doing it for him". Now that would be a fun you tube item. How does the officer face himself in the morning, after that? LOL.