Letter from two accused of Koh Tao murders to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi Myanmar Democracy icon

[Wilsonandson]

boomerangutang yes your right it was petty and rude my post, but I do agree with Jdinasia that the letter was a bit overly please feel pity and sorrow for me with violins playing. A 20 year old doesn't write a letter like this. Write a real heartfelt letter in their words not their lawyers. Let them speak.

[CharlieH]

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[sjaak327]

Thankfully there will be a trial soon!

Yeah there will be, in fact it has been fast tracked a full two months. Whether that trial will be fair is already a big question.

Firstly we have the family of the victims publishing a statement through the foreign office of the UK, which quite frankly is truly unbelievable, especially since that statement alluded to evidence which "appears to be powerful and convincing". Hence the FO directly interfering into a court case in Thailand that hasn't even started yet !

and secondly the fact that the defense team does not know what the evidence is that will be submitted in two weeks time.

In light of the above two points, there is justifiable concern that the upcoming court case will be anything but fair. Just as there is justifiable concern that the investigation into those murders was anything but fair and above board.

[dcutman]

boomerangutang yes your right it was petty and rude my post, but I do agree with Jdinasia that the letter was a bit overly please feel pity and sorrow for me with violins playing. A 20 year old doesn't write a letter like this. Write a real heartfelt letter in their words not their lawyers. Let them speak.

Exactly how would a letter read from a 20 year old, poor migrant worker from Myanmar facing the death penalty for a crime he did not commit? In your opinion of course.

[elektrified]

Interesting in their letter they indicate they don't even think the headman's son was responsible for the murders...

“The truth is we are not really involved in this case. We want you to help us. So we write this letter to you from our imprisonment. We were not involved in this crime. We do not want to be in jail anymore. We think the killer went to another country already."

Interesting that you are putting words in their mouths.

[jdinasia]

Thankfully there will be a trial soon!

Yeah there will be, in fact it has been fast tracked a full two months. Whether that trial will be fair is already a big question.

Firstly we have the family of the victims publishing a statement through the foreign office of the UK, which quite frankly is truly unbelievable, especially since that statement alluded to evidence which "appears to be powerful and convincing". Hence the FO directly interfering into a court case in Thailand that hasn't even started yet !

and secondly the fact that the defense team does not know what the evidence is that will be submitted in two weeks time.

In light of the above two points, there is justifiable concern that the upcoming court case will be anything but fair. Just as there is justifiable concern that the investigation into those murders was anything but fair and above board.

Initial date has been set. This is likely to extend for months in the trial phase.

Discovery is a two way street in Thailand. The defense doesn't know the prosecution's case nor does the prosecution know the defense case.

The issues raised about the investigation should be part of the defense case.

The family statement is irrelevant to the trial.

[Wilsonandson]

Okay, dcutman it would go along these lines " Help, I've been framed along with my friend, we were tortured, they beat us to a pulp until we confessed to doing it. We're being treated terribly in a cell full of rapists and murders. I haven't slept more than 2 hours a night, fearing that we migyt be tortured more or molested or worse by other inmates, send help to here our story, bring cameras to record our living hell. we can't take any more and are thinking of ending it all, your our only hope, the accused" Thats in my opinion of course.

[Anthony5]

Interesting in their letter they indicate they don't even think the headman's son was responsible for the murders...

“The truth is we are not really involved in this case. We want you to help us. So we write this letter to you from our imprisonment. We were not involved in this crime. We do not want to be in jail anymore. We think the killer went to another country already."

Interesting that you are putting words in their mouths.

So did the headman's son went to another country already? Are you gone provide us the same link that Dcutman provided so far for this rumor.

www.I'veseenitbefore.com

Edited December 11, 2014 by Anthony5

[dcutman]

Thankfully there will be a trial soon!

Yeah there will be, in fact it has been fast tracked a full two months. Whether that trial will be fair is already a big question.

Firstly we have the family of the victims publishing a statement through the foreign office of the UK, which quite frankly is truly unbelievable, especially since that statement alluded to evidence which "appears to be powerful and convincing". Hence the FO directly interfering into a court case in Thailand that hasn't even started yet !

and secondly the fact that the defense team does not know what the evidence is that will be submitted in two weeks time.

In light of the above two points, there is justifiable concern that the upcoming court case will be anything but fair. Just as there is justifiable concern that the investigation into those murders was anything but fair and above board.

Initial date has been set. This is likely to extend for months in the trial phase.

Discovery is a two way street in Thailand. The defense doesn't know the prosecution's case nor does the prosecution know the defense case.

The issues raised about the investigation should be part of the defense case.

The family statement is irrelevant to the trial.

Liar! You know thats a BS statement JD. There is no pre trial discovery process in Thai law.

Here i s how it goes in this case . All according to Thai law. The defense is required to submit their entire defense case by Dec 18, so prosecution has 7 days to research what the defense has in the case.. The prosecution has to produce nothing, except for the obvious. Suspects details (name and age) and what they are being accused of, and not much else. Its all in a total of 6 pages.

The prosecution is not required to divulge any evidence or witnesses witch was obtained by police during the investigation prior to the prosecutions testimonies , according to Thai. law.

[jdinasia]

Thankfully there will be a trial soon!

Yeah there will be, in fact it has been fast tracked a full two months. Whether that trial will be fair is already a big question.

Firstly we have the family of the victims publishing a statement through the foreign office of the UK, which quite frankly is truly unbelievable, especially since that statement alluded to evidence which "appears to be powerful and convincing". Hence the FO directly interfering into a court case in Thailand that hasn't even started yet !

and secondly the fact that the defense team does not know what the evidence is that will be submitted in two weeks time.

In light of the above two points, there is justifiable concern that the upcoming court case will be anything but fair. Just as there is justifiable concern that the investigation into those murders was anything but fair and above board.

Initial date has been set. This is likely to extend for months in the trial phase.

Discovery is a two way street in Thailand. The defense doesn't know the prosecution's case nor does the prosecution know the defense case.

The issues raised about the investigation should be part of the defense case.

The family statement is irrelevant to the trial.

Liar! You know thats a BS statement JD. There is no pre trial discovery process in Thai law.

Here i s how it goes in this case . All according to Thai law. The defense is required to submit their entire defense case by Dec 18, so prosecution has 7 days to research what the defense has in the case.. The prosecution has to produce nothing, except for the obvious. Suspects details (name and age) and what they are being accused of, and not much else. Its all in a total of 6 pages.

The prosecution is not required to divulge any evidence or witnesses witch was obtained by police during the investigation prior to the prosecutions testimonies , according to Thai. law.

Liar??

Perhaps you should read what I wrote.

[CharlieH]

A number of petty squabbling posts removed

[JohnThailandJohn]

You both point to the parents statements that the evidence look convincing but as you have both admitted that the British police have not carried out their own investigation they have only assessed what has been shown to them.

Almost comical. Basically you are saying the Brit Investigators are idiots and just believed what was told to them and then communicated this blind confidence to the families so they believed the evidence was convincing.

Fact is the parents know more about this case than any of us and the UK Investigators came here SPECIFICALLY to investigators to see if there was a cover-up and things were being handled properly. Yet, you want to act like they are idiots and just came here and listened to what the Thais said and took their word when the whole reason they came was because of the Conspiracy Folks getting attention saying the Thais were lying. Comical if not such a strange and twisted logic to continue to avoid reality.

Edited December 11, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[englishoak]

Why is that some people have to keep going on and on About "convincing " evidence?

And yet we are all supposed to believe this?

Tell me this much, how many people believe in the existence of God without it ever having been proved he exists?

Because there's evidence he exists? Or there are hard undisputed facts he exists?

Or just what's been written in a book, that you take it as the truth?

The very fact that people chose to believe in God without a single shred of evidence is living proof that people chose to believe " rumours" of his existence, contrary to a lack of physical evidence that he does?

So why is it so wrong for people to listen to and believe any rumour or information here ?

I know this isn't about religion but if your a Christian and believe in God, you're doing so based solely on rumours and hearsay and if that's acceptable to you, then when others chose to listen to hearsay and rumours in this sensitive case, how can you stand in judgement of them, when you've never seen evidence that proves any God exists but take all you have been told about his existence based on faith and not evidence?

Way off topic, but you are correct. Belief in a God is as ludicrous as the beliefs exhibited in the Koh Tao conspiracy theories.

Your not getting away with that really offensive comment..

Not only are you way off topic yourself but just offended about 3/4 of the world population with that god remark.

I shouldnt be surprised I guess you really are just trolling lately.

Mods please remove this post as its also off topic

[biplanebluey]

I have not posted anything for a long time as there has been so much said over the weeks gone by,and most of it has been a never ending list of trolls.I only hope that if these 2 young men are innocent,as I think they are,that some twist of fate,like a mis trial,or some new evidence is submitted,or someone is found to come forward with evidence that is unrefutable in their favour. Good luck to you two,my thoughts are with you

[JohnThailandJohn]

Thankfully there will be a trial soon!

Yeah there will be, in fact it has been fast tracked a full two months. Whether that trial will be fair is already a big question.

Firstly we have the family of the victims publishing a statement through the foreign office of the UK, which quite frankly is truly unbelievable, especially since that statement alluded to evidence which "appears to be powerful and convincing". Hence the FO directly interfering into a court case in Thailand that hasn't even started yet !

and secondly the fact that the defense team does not know what the evidence is that will be submitted in two weeks time.

In light of the above two points, there is justifiable concern that the upcoming court case will be anything but fair. Just as there is justifiable concern that the investigation into those murders was anything but fair and above board.

Initial date has been set. This is likely to extend for months in the trial phase.

Discovery is a two way street in Thailand. The defense doesn't know the prosecution's case nor does the prosecution know the defense case.

The issues raised about the investigation should be part of the defense case.

The family statement is irrelevant to the trial.

My understanding is Dec. 26th is a Preliminary hearing for both sides to submit evidence. If the judge finds they are likely guilty based on the evidence presented at the prelim then it will go to trial. Not much different than other places.

Bottom line is nothing different in how this case is going to be handled than all other cases here but this one may get fast tracked ensuring the defendants get a speedy trial due to all the conspiracy BS that has gone on online. Appears any extension are going to have to be at the request of the defense lawyers and not the state as to prevent more whining of how they are being held so long without trial.

[dcutman]

Pre-Trial: This period can last a few weeks or a few months depending on the court’s caseload and the negotiated trial date. There is no discovery process in the Thai court system, so you will not have access to evidence before the trial. In general, there is little you can do to affect the way your case is presented. http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/service/legal-matters-in-thailand.html.

Now if we can get past this, we can say the B2 defense team has little chance or a big hurdle to overcome. Those few TVF members that have already convicted these two young men to (possible) death, or at the least life imprisonment, to think of yourself, family members or people you know that could go through this same system.

How vigorous would you defend the police or the Thai system then?

But anyway the topic is about a letter these young men sent to their hero. Some on TVF said its not from these boys, and I say it is. these kids are and have been scared shitless for months, and they know they are gonna die unless somebody with power helps them. They dont have much of a chance anyway with the Thai system. Why hang em JD and JTJ? What is it with you guys? Give a couple of days, weeks, months on this earth before they unjustly executed or put in prison for something they most likely didnt do, at least not by themselves, without help, that are watching and laughing at the bar waiting for the next victims to arrive.

Edited December 11, 2014 by dcutman

[JohnThailandJohn]

Pre-Trial: This period can last a few weeks or a few months depending on the courts caseload and the negotiated trial date. There is no discovery process in the Thai court system, so you will not have access to evidence before the trial. In general, there is little you can do to affect the way your case is presented. http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/service/legal-matters-in-thailand.html.

Now if we can get past this, we can say the B2 defense team has little chance or a big hurdle to overcome. Those few TVF members that have already convicted these two young men to (possible) death, or at the least life imprisonment, to think of yourself, family members or people you know that could go through this same system.

How vigorous would you defend the police or the Thai system then?

But anyway the topic is about a letter these young men sent to their hero. Some on TVF said its not from these boys, and I say it is. these kids are and have been scared shitless for months, and they know they are gonna die unless somebody with power helps them. They dont have much of a chance anyway with the Thai system why hang em JD and JTJ , give a couple of days, weeks, months on this earth before they unjustly executed.

The Pretrial is where evidence is presented -- it is called an evidentiary hearing in some places because it is where evidence is presented. Not all legal systems even have this just like not all legal systems have discovery processes similar to other places. Get over it as this is the system here and has been for a long time. Bottom line is the Prosecution is going to have to show enough of there evidence at this prelim to convince the court it is likely these two are guilty to have it move to trial. The defense doesn't have to show anything and smart defenses will do just this since it is unlikely they could win in a prelim but more likely their evidence would win in trial. In the US they have grand juries that can replace a Prelim and with a grand jury the defense cannot even present a case -- it is only the prosecution presenting evidence.

Just is kind of silly to act like this is something new or unique in this case. Nobody seems to care about this process when it is Thais on trial. Many of the folks pretending to care now are the ones who often want to do away with a trial and hang em high with the first news report of an arrest on other threads.

[dcutman]

Thankfully there will be a trial soon!

Yeah there will be, in fact it has been fast tracked a full two months. Whether that trial will be fair is already a big question.

Firstly we have the family of the victims publishing a statement through the foreign office of the UK, which quite frankly is truly unbelievable, especially since that statement alluded to evidence which "appears to be powerful and convincing". Hence the FO directly interfering into a court case in Thailand that hasn't even started yet !

and secondly the fact that the defense team does not know what the evidence is that will be submitted in two weeks time.

In light of the above two points, there is justifiable concern that the upcoming court case will be anything but fair. Just as there is justifiable concern that the investigation into those murders was anything but fair and above board.

Initial date has been set. This is likely to extend for months in the trial phase.

Discovery is a two way street in Thailand. The defense doesn't know the prosecution's case nor does the prosecution know the defense case.

The issues raised about the investigation should be part of the defense case.

The family statement is irrelevant to the trial.

My understanding is Dec. 26th is a Preliminary hearing for both sides to submit evidence. If the judge finds they are likely guilty based on the evidence presented at the prelim then it will go to trial. Not much different than other places.

Bottom line is nothing different in how this case is going to be handled than all other cases here but this one may get fast tracked ensuring the defendants get a speedy trial due to all the conspiracy BS that has gone on online. Appears any extension are going to have to be at the request of the defense lawyers and not the state as to prevent more whining of how they are being held so long without trial.

If the judge finds they are likely guilty based on the evidence presented at the prelim then it will go to trial. Not much different than other places.

Not much different than, what other places? North Korea, China? Are you for real?

[dcutman]

Pre-Trial: This period can last a few weeks or a few months depending on the courts caseload and the negotiated trial date. There is no discovery process in the Thai court system, so you will not have access to evidence before the trial. In general, there is little you can do to affect the way your case is presented. http://chiangmai.usconsulate.gov/service/legal-matters-in-thailand.html.

Now if we can get past this, we can say the B2 defense team has little chance or a big hurdle to overcome. Those few TVF members that have already convicted these two young men to (possible) death, or at the least life imprisonment, to think of yourself, family members or people you know that could go through this same system.

How vigorous would you defend the police or the Thai system then?

But anyway the topic is about a letter these young men sent to their hero. Some on TVF said its not from these boys, and I say it is. these kids are and have been scared shitless for months, and they know they are gonna die unless somebody with power helps them. They dont have much of a chance anyway with the Thai system why hang em JD and JTJ , give a couple of days, weeks, months on this earth before they unjustly executed.

The Pretrial is where evidence is presented -- it is called an evidentiary hearing in some places because it is where evidence is presented. Not all legal systems even have this just like not all legal systems have discovery processes similar to other places. Get over it as this is the system here and has been for a long time. Bottom line is the Prosecution is going to have to show enough of there evidence at this prelim to convince the court it is likely these two are guilty to have it move to trial. The defense doesn't have to show anything and smart defenses will do just this since it is unlikely they could win in a prelim but more likely their evidence would win in trial. In the US they have grand juries that can replace a Prelim and with a grand jury the defense cannot even present a case -- it is only the prosecution presenting evidence.

Just is kind of silly to act like this is something new or unique in this case. Nobody seems to care about this process when it is Thais on trial. Many of the folks pretending to care now are the ones who often want to do away with a trial and hang em high with the first news report of an arrest on other threads.

it is called an evidentiary hearing in some places because it is where evidence is presented. Not all legal systems even have this just like not all legal systems have discovery processes similar to other places. Get over it as this is the system here and has been for a long time.

Tell me what civilized country does not have some sort of a discovery process?

Edited December 11, 2014 by dcutman

[JohnThailandJohn]

Yeah there will be, in fact it has been fast tracked a full two months. Whether that trial will be fair is already a big question.

Firstly we have the family of the victims publishing a statement through the foreign office of the UK, which quite frankly is truly unbelievable, especially since that statement alluded to evidence which "appears to be powerful and convincing". Hence the FO directly interfering into a court case in Thailand that hasn't even started yet !

and secondly the fact that the defense team does not know what the evidence is that will be submitted in two weeks time.

In light of the above two points, there is justifiable concern that the upcoming court case will be anything but fair. Just as there is justifiable concern that the investigation into those murders was anything but fair and above board.

Initial date has been set. This is likely to extend for months in the trial phase.

Discovery is a two way street in Thailand. The defense doesn't know the prosecution's case nor does the prosecution know the defense case.

The issues raised about the investigation should be part of the defense case.

The family statement is irrelevant to the trial.

My understanding is Dec. 26th is a Preliminary hearing for both sides to submit evidence. If the judge finds they are likely guilty based on the evidence presented at the prelim then it will go to trial. Not much different than other places.

Bottom line is nothing different in how this case is going to be handled than all other cases here but this one may get fast tracked ensuring the defendants get a speedy trial due to all the conspiracy BS that has gone on online. Appears any extension are going to have to be at the request of the defense lawyers and not the state as to prevent more whining of how they are being held so long without trial.

If the judge finds they are likely guilty based on the evidence presented at the prelim then it will go to trial. Not much different than other places.

Not much different than, what other places? North Korea, China? Are you for real?

Clearly you are ignorant of such matters and suggest you do some research -- start with the US. Information is easily found online and for somebody to be held over for trial it needs to be more likely than not they are guilty.

Edited December 11, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

Tell me what civilized country does not have some sort of a discovery process?

Educate yourself as it is clear you know little about the legal process but and suggest you start with some basic views about Discovery that you seem to think is some basic human right to a fair trial...

http://www.jonesday.com/files/Publication/a52851fa-6c10-4467-afcb-0894b8ae6e73/Presentation/PublicationAttachment/206bf819-b8c9-41c8-bbe3-0dd390b8ed0e/The%20Practical%20Litigator%20-%20The%20Perils%20Of%20Taking%20Discovery%20To%20France%20(LM%20-%20OA)%20-%20septem.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_(law)#Criticism_of_U.S._discovery

Legal systems vary all over the world -- In Mexico a judge just doesn't judge they take an active role in the case including picking witnesses and gathering evidence.

Bottom line is these two will be tried under the same Thai system as Thais and foreigners have been tried a long time and every day. But because the defense lawyers are appealing to ignorant foreigners (which appears to have backfired with UK Investigators and the family)they are acting like they are at some unfair advantage ... freaking funny thing is these two would be facing the Myanmar authorities and legal system if at home.

Edited December 11, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

But anyway the topic is about a letter these young men sent to their hero. Some on TVF said its not from these boys, and I say it is. these kids are and have been scared shitless for months, and they know they are gonna die unless somebody with power helps them. They dont have much of a chance anyway with the Thai system. Why hang em JD and JTJ? What is it with you guys? Give a couple of days, weeks, months on this earth before they unjustly executed or put in prison for something they most likely didnt do, at least not by themselves, without help, that are watching and laughing at the bar waiting for the next victims to arrive.

Like the families JD and I only stated we want to see them stand trial but we also believe the evidence is strong against them and don't like or believe in the nonsense conspiracy theories (apparently also like the victim's family). At this stage I do think they are responsible but never ever said they should be executed or sentenced without a trial. So, not really sure what you are going on about. In fact, I am against executing anyone regardless of their crimes.

Edited December 11, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[jimmybkk]

Interesting in their letter they indicate they don't even think the headman's son was responsible for the murders...

“The truth is we are not really involved in this case. We want you to help us. So we write this letter to you from our imprisonment. We were not involved in this crime. We do not want to be in jail anymore. We think the killer went to another country already."

Interesting that you would highlight this and suggest they are referring to the headman's son. At least now I am clear on exactly where your allegiance lies.

What they said is exactly the right thing to say under the circumstances, no matter what they genuinely believe. It offers the least amount of loss of face to the other side in the unlikely event they are found not guilty.

To suggest their statement can be used to help exonerate anyone is a cheap shot and you know it.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Interesting in their letter they indicate they don't even think the headman's son was responsible for the murders...

The truth is we are not really involved in this case. We want you to help us. So we write this letter to you from our imprisonment. We were not involved in this crime. We do not want to be in jail anymore. We think the killer went to another country already."[/size]

Interesting that you would highlight this and suggest they are referring to the headman's son.

Actually thought it was very clear that I don't believe they are referring the headman's son.

[jimmybkk]

Like the families JD and I only stated we want to see them stand trial but we also believe the evidence is strong against them and don't like or believe in the nonsense conspiracy theories (apparently also like the victim's family). At this stage I do think they are responsible but never ever said they should be executed or sentenced without a trial. So, not really sure what you are going on about. In fact, I am against executing anyone regardless of their crimes.

Would you mind being specific regarding the evidence you believe is strong against them - is it the confession? The DNA results?

[jimmybkk]

Interesting in their letter they indicate they don't even think the headman's son was responsible for the murders...

The truth is we are not really involved in this case. We want you to help us. So we write this letter to you from our imprisonment. We were not involved in this crime. We do not want to be in jail anymore. We think the killer went to another country already."[/size]

Interesting that you would highlight this and suggest they are referring to the headman's son.

Actually thought it was very clear that I don't believe they are referring the headman's son.

So they say: "We think the killer went to another country already". You highlight those words in your quote and say that they have indicated they don't even think the headman's son was responsible.... And you now somehow think you made it clear that you don't believe they are referring to the headman's son?

What kind of logic is that?

[sjaak327]

Thankfully there will be a trial soon!

Yeah there will be, in fact it has been fast tracked a full two months. Whether that trial will be fair is already a big question.

Firstly we have the family of the victims publishing a statement through the foreign office of the UK, which quite frankly is truly unbelievable, especially since that statement alluded to evidence which "appears to be powerful and convincing". Hence the FO directly interfering into a court case in Thailand that hasn't even started yet !

and secondly the fact that the defense team does not know what the evidence is that will be submitted in two weeks time.

In light of the above two points, there is justifiable concern that the upcoming court case will be anything but fair. Just as there is justifiable concern that the investigation into those murders was anything but fair and above board.

Initial date has been set. This is likely to extend for months in the trial phase.

Discovery is a two way street in Thailand. The defense doesn't know the prosecution's case nor does the prosecution know the defense case.

The issues raised about the investigation should be part of the defense case.

The family statement is irrelevant to the trial.

That is not what the defense claims, they claim that they have to submit pretty much their entire case, whilst the prosecution has submitted a 6 page document. Apparently they will get more information on the 18th which gives them a whopping 8 days to prepare for the actual court case.

The family statement isn't irrelevant it already influences the case. Personally I find the role of the FO peculiar, interfering with a foreign court case.

Edit: it is even worse, the defense has to submit their entire case on the 18th and will not be presented with the prosecution's case until the 26th.

Unbelievable. Fair trial is not applicable on this one.

Edited December 11, 2014 by sjaak327

[JohnThailandJohn]

Like the families JD and I only stated we want to see them stand trial but we also believe the evidence is strong against them and don't like or believe in the nonsense conspiracy theories (apparently also like the victim's family). At this stage I do think they are responsible but never ever said they should be executed or sentenced without a trial. So, not really sure what you are going on about. In fact, I am against executing anyone regardless of their crimes.

Would you mind being specific regarding the evidence you believe is strong against them - is it the confession? The DNA results?

Lets not use the word evidence literally seeing how nothing has been presented yet in court but here are some of my thoughts on why they are likely guilty but also bare in mind I have heard NOTHING but nonsense that could be used in just about any case to cast doubt for those who simply don't want to believe.

Their Semen in the victim (this along I can't get past unless defense can explain, I need nothing else)

It would take a massive conspiracy to say it was their semen/dna if it wasn't or would take somebody very early on (first day at the scene) to have planted this evidence which means all the false accusations and loss of face and doubt in the case this brought was planned since they always knew they would set-up these two.

The friend/witness who states they gave them the victim's phone to destroy

The phone being recovered at their place

Their admitting to being on the beach that night

Their comment after admitting being the ones ones on the beach playing guitar that night (but never coming forward when they were looking to identify them from the first days)

Their saying they were too drunk to have done this, they could barely walk (very typical and self serving because it also could relate to their being too drunk to remember as well as minimize their responsibility.

Although I believe in court (actual evidence) any confession where there is a claim of threats or abuse should be thrown out (regardless of proof) I find it odd they met with embassy staff and human rights workers privately and admitted they did it but didn't intend to kill while also saying yes the police did threatened them ... before later retracting the confession after getting a lawyer who is using the notoriety of the case and the disbelievers to try to win this case through public and outside government pressure but best I can tell never ever addressing their semen in the victim.

I trust that the parents are telling the truth that there is more evidence we don't know about and their confidence in the case and also trust their statements were based largely on the UK Investigators findings. And this would mean the UK investigators believe in the case against these two and didn't find reason to believe their was a cover up.

After police accused numerous people and admitting they had the info wrong against them, there has been nothing coming out that they made a mistake or had bad info on this one.

Not going to convict without a trial but I think the kids are guilty baring any future unknown evidence coming out and sadly if this is true I think their lawyer is going to get them killed in the way he is trying to leverage public outcry and this letter writing nonsense to people who cannot help but can get on the anti-Thai or conspiracy train to try to win the case through pressure which will never work. If these two are guilty, and I am confident at this point they are, they need to fire this guy, confess and make a deal to take the death penalty off the table. This would almost guarantee they will be out of prison at an age where they can still be a productive member of society. But at this rate if found guilty they will be executed for their lack or remorse and cooperation and their going out to their way to blame Thai authorities and the legal system for what they did.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Thankfully there will be a trial soon!

Yeah there will be, in fact it has been fast tracked a full two months. Whether that trial will be fair is already a big question.

Firstly we have the family of the victims publishing a statement through the foreign office of the UK, which quite frankly is truly unbelievable, especially since that statement alluded to evidence which "appears to be powerful and convincing". Hence the FO directly interfering into a court case in Thailand that hasn't even started yet !

and secondly the fact that the defense team does not know what the evidence is that will be submitted in two weeks time.

In light of the above two points, there is justifiable concern that the upcoming court case will be anything but fair. Just as there is justifiable concern that the investigation into those murders was anything but fair and above board.

Initial date has been set. This is likely to extend for months in the trial phase.

Discovery is a two way street in Thailand. The defense doesn't know the prosecution's case nor does the prosecution know the defense case.

The issues raised about the investigation should be part of the defense case.

The family statement is irrelevant to the trial.

That is not what the defense claims, they claim that they have to submit pretty much their entire case, whilst the prosecution has submitted a 6 page document. Apparently they will get more information on the 18th which gives them a whopping 8 days to prepare for the actual court case.

You do realize the defense's statements might possibly be just a tiny bit biased and self-serving right?

[JohnThailandJohn]

Interesting in their letter they indicate they don't even think the headman's son was responsible for the murders...

The truth is we are not really involved in this case. We want you to help us. So we write this letter to you from our imprisonment. We were not involved in this crime. We do not want to be in jail anymore. We think the killer went to another country already."[/size]

Interesting that you would highlight this and suggest they are referring to the headman's son.

Actually thought it was very clear that I don't believe they are referring the headman's son.

So they say: "We think the killer went to another country already". You highlight those words in your quote and say that they have indicated they don't even think the headman's son was responsible.... And you now somehow think you made it clear that you don't believe they are referring to the headman's son?

What kind of logic is that?

Since the headman's son has not went to another country and their lawyers would know this if they thought he was responsible, then clearly they are not talking about the headsman's son being the killer. They could be talking about Sean or just talking out of their a@@ about a imagined person but what seems clear is they are not talking about the headman's son.

Edited December 11, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn