UK pensions-life certificate

[khastan]

I have received one of these this morning. If I am to continue to receive my UK pension. I have to have it witnessed, signed and stamped by a professional in Nong Khai. The only person I have found today is trying to charge me 4000baht!!. Does anybody living in Nong Khai know anybody who could witness and sign such a document and who can read and understand English at a reasonable price., thank you.

Do you really think they will bother to check who does it?

Well seeing as the form states that whoever signs should be a professional person or a person of good standing in the community, the life certificate will be checked after we receive it and the life certificate will be returned to you to be signed by someone else if the person you have chosen is not of sufficient standing, yes I do think they will bother.

[khastan]

I have received one of these this morning. If I am to continue to receive my UK pension. I have to have it witnessed, signed and stamped by a professional in Nong Khai. The only person I have found today is trying to charge me 4000baht!!. Does anybody living in Nong Khai know anybody who could witness and sign such a document and who can read and understand English at a reasonable price., thank you.

Do you really think they will bother to check who does it?

Well seeing as the form states that whoever signs should be a professional person or a person of good standing in the community, the life certificate will be checked after we receive it and the life certificate will be returned to you to be signed by someone else if the person you have chosen is not of sufficient standing, yes I do think they will bother.

I have just returned from immigration and they will not do it. They could not really believe the form and thought it was some kind of joke. They did ask why the UK embassy was not involved with this though.

[thonglorjimmy]

I have just returned from immigration and they will not do it. They could not really believe the form and thought it was some kind of joke. They did ask why the UK embassy was not involved with this though.

I think a number of us wonder why the British Embassy won't witness a form required by another Government Department.

I'm not sure that I agree with an earlier comment that they're frightened of litigation, I think it's more the case of reducing their workload, and as they never charged for these it gives them more opportunity on concentrating on services that attract a fee.

I just fired off an email to them asking for confirmation of who can witness these forms, pointing out that the advice from their link didn't equate to the advice reportedly being given out by the staff at Newcastle. I received the standard out of office reply indicating that they hoped to respond within 20 working days, so by 15th January 2015. Interestingly I had cause to contact the Dutch Consular section earlier in the week, they gave a helpful and meaningful response within an hour, with further responses within minutes.

[laolover88]

Wondering what the DWP policy/regulations are about this. Do they 'automatically' send these out when OAP reaches certain age or is there some random generation going on? If the TPA/HMRC know and the UK bank knows I am alive and well.....because we actually talk to each other..what's DWP's problem?

The problem with the Embassy I guess is it is nearly impossible to find a UK citizen inside; however since Irish nationals can sign a passport application???!

[jacky54]

I have received one of these this morning. If I am to continue to receive my UK pension. I have to have it witnessed, signed and stamped by a professional in Nong Khai. The only person I have found today is trying to charge me 4000baht!!. Does anybody living in Nong Khai know anybody who could witness and sign such a document and who can read and understand English at a reasonable price., thank you.

Do you really think they will bother to check who does it?

Well seeing as the form states that whoever signs should be a professional person or a person of good standing in the community, the life certificate will be checked after we receive it and the life certificate will be returned to you to be signed by someone else if the person you have chosen is not of sufficient standing, yes I do think they will bother.

It's not checked

[khastan]

I have just returned from immigration and they will not do it. They could not really believe the form and thought it was some kind of joke. They did ask why the UK embassy was not involved with this though.

I think a number of us wonder why the British Embassy won't witness a form required by another Government Department.

I'm not sure that I agree with an earlier comment that they're frightened of litigation, I think it's more the case of reducing their workload, and as they never charged for these it gives them more opportunity on concentrating on services that attract a fee.

I just fired off an email to them asking for confirmation of who can witness these forms, pointing out that the advice from their link didn't equate to the advice reportedly being given out by the staff at Newcastle. I received the standard out of office reply indicating that they hoped to respond within 20 working days, so by 15th January 2015. Interestingly I had cause to contact the Dutch Consular section earlier in the week, they gave a helpful and meaningful response within an hour, with further responses within minutes.

If you check this official UK government link https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/how-to-claim it states "check the list of people who can witness a life certificate. This is now the same as the list of people who can countersign a passport though they do not need to live in the UK, or have a passport from a specific country"

Last year my neighbor who is a retired pilot witnessed my passport photo and countersigned it with no problems at all. However the life certificate on the back requires the witness to provide his office name and address and the official stamp. So like you correctly say the advice does not equate to forms sent out from Newcastle and also the official Gov.uk website.

I telephoned them yesterday. They assured me that they were not targeting people individually, which I took to mean that these forms are going to be sent to all expats drawing a UK pension in due course. I pressed him for a answer on this but was again told the previous statement. I also asked if the policvy of sending out this Life Forms to pensioners in anyway contravened any ruling of the EE HCOHR. This was met by dead silence and a long pause, eventually I was told that this is official government policy and has been passed as such. He did not seem concerned in the slightest about the problems of having this form countersigned by a person who understands and read english of sufficient standing or the cost of such. He stated if the form was not sent back and received by them in the allotted time my pension will be stopped.

.

[khastan]

I have received one of these this morning. If I am to continue to receive my UK pension. I have to have it witnessed, signed and stamped by a professional in Nong Khai. The only person I have found today is trying to charge me 4000baht!!. Does anybody living in Nong Khai know anybody who could witness and sign such a document and who can read and understand English at a reasonable price., thank you.

Do you really think they will bother to check who does it?

Well seeing as the form states that whoever signs should be a professional person or a person of good standing in the community, the life certificate will be checked after we receive it and the life certificate will be returned to you to be signed by someone else if the person you have chosen is not of sufficient standing, yes I do think they will bother.

It's not checked

How do you know this?

[evadgib]

I'm bored so will try to answer Thonglorjimmy @ post 33:)

I think a number of us wonder why the British Embassy won't witness a form required by another Government Department.

I'm not sure that I agree with an earlier comment that they're frightened of litigation, I think it's more the case of reducing their workload, and as they never charged for these it gives them more opportunity on concentrating on services that attract a fee..

If they verify documents that later prove to be bogus (ID fraudster, deceased claimant, etc) they're open to legal recourse. Re Other notary work; most of this can be done locally within the community at considerably less cost or inconvenience to the public. It (Notary work) may appear to be a 'nice little earner' for the FCO but it's clear from recent updates that most isn't strictly necessary and they would prefer to offload it.

I just fired off an email to them asking for confirmation of who can witness these forms, pointing out that the advice from their link didn't equate to the advice reportedly being given out by the staff at Newcastle. I received the standard out of office reply indicating that they hoped to respond within 20 working days, so by 15th January 2015. Interestingly I had cause to contact the Dutch Consular section earlier in the week, they gave a helpful and meaningful response within an hour, with further responses within minutes.

1. It's Friday! (Would apply to Dutch too if you contacted them today )

2. Any reply will likely link to the list already in your possession.

3. Their "20 days" is a 'catch-all' response. Enquiries of this nature aren't particularly urgent but I doubt if any take 20 days to receive a reply.

HTH

Edited December 12, 2014 by evadgib

[evadgib]

Freedom <deleted>

Your views are detrimental to this thread & potentially dangerous to any that may take them seriously. Can I suggest that you read and observe instead of tapping away willy nilly?

[CharlieH]

A post advocating Fraud has been removed.

[delboy]

My wife and I both received a Life Certificate this week. We took them to our local bank, and the branch manager was happy enough to sign them at no charge.

They are only signing that they have witnessed the signature, and that they have seen the applicant's photo ID, not that the applicant is personally known to them or, indeed, that the applicant is who he/she says they are.

[OJAS]

I received one of these things a week ago, thought they sent it a bit quick as I've only been drawing my State Pension for two years, my Civil Service Pension sent me one after five years, it also took three weeks from the date of the letter to be delivered, so the clock is ticking.

How long do DWP allow for your Life Certificate to be duly signed and returned to them before they will stop your State Pension?

[khastan]

I received one of these things a week ago, thought they sent it a bit quick as I've only been drawing my State Pension for two years, my Civil Service Pension sent me one after five years, it also took three weeks from the date of the letter to be delivered, so the clock is ticking.

How long do DWP allow for your Life Certificate to be duly signed and returned to them before they will stop your State Pension?

Eight weeks from the date of the letter

[theoldgit]

I received one of these things a week ago, thought they sent it a bit quick as I've only been drawing my State Pension for two years, my Civil Service Pension sent me one after five years, it also took three weeks from the date of the letter to be delivered, so the clock is ticking.

How long do DWP allow for your Life Certificate to be duly signed and returned to them before they will stop your State Pension?

Yes, and the letter took over two weeks to arrive.

[khastan]

My wife and I both received a Life Certificate this week. We took them to our local bank, and the branch manager was happy enough to sign them at no charge.

They are only signing that they have witnessed the signature, and that they have seen the applicant's photo ID, not that the applicant is personally known to them or, indeed, that the applicant is who he/she says they are.

Does you bank manger read and understand a quite complex UK government form or did he/she sign it without understanding it or having it translated. I know for certain my bank manager would not have a clue what it was about.

[khastan]

I received one of these things a week ago, thought they sent it a bit quick as I've only been drawing my State Pension for two years, my Civil Service Pension sent me one after five years, it also took three weeks from the date of the letter to be delivered, so the clock is ticking.

How long do DWP allow for your Life Certificate to be duly signed and returned to them before they will stop your State Pension?

Yes, and the letter took over two weeks to arrive.

When I phoned them and told them it had already taken 18 days of the 56 allowed I was told that they would allow me another 18 days to send the form back. However I did ask them to confirm this in a email so I have evidence of this but they refused. Instead they said that all phone calls are recorded and if they give false information they can be prosecuted.

[Jip99]

I received one of these things a week ago, thought they sent it a bit quick as I've only been drawing my State Pension for two years, my Civil Service Pension sent me one after five years, it also took three weeks from the date of the letter to be delivered, so the clock is ticking.

Evadgib is spot on, the British Embassy can no longer be bothered to do these, they advise that they can be signed by the same people who can countersign a passport photo https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications.

I tried to get a police officer to countersign, they weren't the least bit interested, also having been over an hour at my local bank on another matter I couldn't face them again, then I noticed the list states that Civil Servants can sign, current or retired, so I got a former Civil Service colleague to sign, ironically I was his manager, time will tell if it's acceptable.

I have just signed 2 for friends.

I also worked on the premise that I, as a retired bank manager and current company director, can countersign passport applications.

[theoldgit]

You have to allow a few extra days because you are directed to send the form back to OJAS's friends in Wolverhampton.

Also if this thread is indicative of the number of these forms being sent out, there's going to be a lot of mail bags full of 'em, you need to factor in the two week Christmas/New Year break.

[Jip99]

I received one of these things a week ago, thought they sent it a bit quick as I've only been drawing my State Pension for two years, my Civil Service Pension sent me one after five years, it also took three weeks from the date of the letter to be delivered, so the clock is ticking.

How long do DWP allow for your Life Certificate to be duly signed and returned to them before they will stop your State Pension?

Yes, and the letter took over two weeks to arrive.

When I phoned them and told them it had already taken 18 days of the 56 allowed I was told that they would allow me another 18 days to send the form back. However I did ask them to confirm this in a email so I have evidence of this but they refused. Instead they said that all phone calls are recorded and if they give false information they can be prosecuted.

A friend lost 2 weeks before doing anything with the form - I scanned the signed form etc to the Pension Service to show that action was being taken.

This is not a trick/catch; they understandably do not want to keep paying out pensions when we are dead,.

[Jip99]

My wife and I both received a Life Certificate this week. We took them to our local bank, and the branch manager was happy enough to sign them at no charge.

They are only signing that they have witnessed the signature, and that they have seen the applicant's photo ID, not that the applicant is personally known to them or, indeed, that the applicant is who he/she says they are.

Does you bank manger read and understand a quite complex UK government form or did he/she sign it without understanding it or having it translated. I know for certain my bank manager would not have a clue what it was about.

No..... but he would understand how to charge 200 Baht

[OJAS]

When I phoned them and told them it had already taken 18 days of the 56 allowed I was told that they would allow me another 18 days to send the form back. However I did ask them to confirm this in a email so I have evidence of this but they refused. Instead they said that all phone calls are recorded and if they give false information they can be prosecuted.

If I were in your shoes I would confirm what they told you back to them in a note accompanying my signed Life Certificate.

And if they can be prosecuted for giving out duff info, then whoever incorrectly informed soap yesterday that retired British policemen or solicitors could not act as witnesses (see post #29) can, I trust, look forward to being banged up for a very long time. Both retired policemen and solicitors can, in fact, perform this onerous task on the basis of being acceptable passport photo countersignatories.

Edited December 12, 2014 by OJAS

[Jip99]

I phoned Newcastle yesterday.

They will NOT accept a retired British policeman or a retired British solicitor as a witness.

They will accept a Thai bank manager ( I wonder if they know who was the main culprit for the 1996 Thai crash)

I did not bother to ask them if they would accept a British politician if I paid their expenses.

Assuming the Old Git is right in post #9 (and he usually is) then this statement is hogwash.

In any event, consider the stupidity of their statement. They are happy to accept the signature of an unknown, unqualified 'foreigner' with no recourse, over a qualified Briton who has to append their passport number and phone number when countersigning a passport application

[khastan]

My wife and I both received a Life Certificate this week. We took them to our local bank, and the branch manager was happy enough to sign them at no charge.

They are only signing that they have witnessed the signature, and that they have seen the applicant's photo ID, not that the applicant is personally known to them or, indeed, that the applicant is who he/she says they are.

Does you bank manger read and understand a quite complex UK government form or did he/she sign it without understanding it or having it translated. I know for certain my bank manager would not have a clue what it was about.

No..... but he would understand how to charge 200 Baht

You got a real bargain I was told it would cost 4000 baht with the only person I could find in Nong Khai willing to do it!

[khastan]

When I phoned them and told them it had already taken 18 days of the 56 allowed I was told that they would allow me another 18 days to send the form back. However I did ask them to confirm this in a email so I have evidence of this but they refused. Instead they said that all phone calls are recorded and if they give false information they can be prosecuted.

If I were in your shoes I would confirm what they told you back to them in a note accompanying my signed Life Certificate.

And if they can be prosecuted for giving out duff info, then whoever incorrectly informed soap yesterday that retired British policemen or solicitors could not act as witnesses (see post #29) can, I trust, look forward to being banged up for a very long time. Both retired policemen and solicitors can, in fact, perform this onerous task on the basis of being acceptable passport photo countersignatories.

Good idea I will do that once I have found somebody to sign the form. I would think that it is highly unlikely that any of these people would ever get banged up or even reprimanded for saying anything on the phone and also all calls being recorded is complete bulls--t.

[khastan]

I phoned Newcastle yesterday.

They will NOT accept a retired British policeman or a retired British solicitor as a witness.

They will accept a Thai bank manager ( I wonder if they know who was the main culprit for the 1996 Thai crash)

I did not bother to ask them if they would accept a British politician if I paid their expenses.

Assuming the Old Git is right in post #9 (and he usually is) then this statement is hogwash.

In any event, consider the stupidity of their statement. They are happy to accept the signature of an unknown, unqualified 'foreigner' with no recourse, over a qualified Briton who has to append their passport number and phone number when countersigning a passport application

Yes agreed but also I wonder what would happen if the person deemed to be of sufficient standing in the community filled his part of the form in Thai not English. Incidentally when I spoke to them and told them that the majority of upstanding citizens in this town speak Thai not English and could you send it in Thai I was told it was only available in English. Which is very odd when you consider that the UK government spends millions of pounds a year translating every form imaginable into god knows how many languages.

[khastan]

I phoned Newcastle yesterday.

They will NOT accept a retired British policeman or a retired British solicitor as a witness.

They will accept a Thai bank manager ( I wonder if they know who was the main culprit for the 1996 Thai crash)

I did not bother to ask them if they would accept a British politician if I paid their expenses.

Assuming the Old Git is right in post #9 (and he usually is) then this statement is hogwash.

In any event, consider the stupidity of their statement. They are happy to accept the signature of an unknown, unqualified 'foreigner' with no recourse, over a qualified Briton who has to append their passport number and phone number when countersigning a passport application

Yes agreed but also I wonder what would happen if the person deemed to be of sufficient standing in the community filled his part of the form in Thai not English. Incidentally when I spoke to them and told them that the majority of upstanding citizens in this town speak Thai not English and could you send it in Thai I was told it was only available in English. Which is very odd when you consider that the UK government spends millions of pounds a year translating every form imaginable into god knows how many languages.

It would seem that this is going to impact in due course on a great deal of Oap UK expats drawing a state pension so I thought the following links about this topic may be of interest

http://www.globaleye.com/british-expats-require-life-certificates-state-pension-claims/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/expat-money/10511531/Frozen-pensioners-we-shouldnt-have-to-prove-were-still-alive.html

http://www.iexpats.com/expat-state-pensioners-protest-proof-life/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-25243993

http://britishexpats.com/forum/philippines-155/life-certificate-required-uk-pension-centre-763556/

[meatboy]

as there is another thread going on this subject plus applying for state pension both of them make interesting reading.

so as i have posted there,i am going to try and get intouch with either richard little john or john gaunt who love a good wind up.

so if anybody knows and can get intouch with someone in the uk.to express our concerns,because if they are not going to sign as proof of exceptance of these forms a hell of a lot of expats are going to have their pension stopped.

[theoldgit]

http://richardlittlejohn.net/contact.html

http://fubarradio.com/shows/no-nonsense-with-jon-gaunt/

[Jip99]

I phoned Newcastle yesterday.

They will NOT accept a retired British policeman or a retired British solicitor as a witness.

They will accept a Thai bank manager ( I wonder if they know who was the main culprit for the 1996 Thai crash)

I did not bother to ask them if they would accept a British politician if I paid their expenses.

Assuming the Old Git is right in post #9 (and he usually is) then this statement is hogwash.

In any event, consider the stupidity of their statement. They are happy to accept the signature of an unknown, unqualified 'foreigner' with no recourse, over a qualified Briton who has to append their passport number and phone number when countersigning a passport application

Yes agreed but also I wonder what would happen if the person deemed to be of sufficient standing in the community filled his part of the form in Thai not English. Incidentally when I spoke to them and told them that the majority of upstanding citizens in this town speak Thai not English and could you send it in Thai I was told it was only available in English. Which is very odd when you consider that the UK government spends millions of pounds a year translating every form imaginable into god knows how many languages.

I think they would not a give a toss. I doubt that many/any certificates are checked for authenticity. There are no contact details apart from a Thai address.

You get the feeling that the 'official stamp' is as important as anything.

I repeat that I see nothing untoward in requesting these forms - private pension trustees do it regularly. For me, commonsense is the key factor and allowing witnesses of 'sufficient standing' - non-Thais - should ensure that these forms can be completed without too much inconvenience.

[meatboy]

http://richardlittlejohn.net/contact.html

http://fubarradio.com/shows/no-nonsense-with-jon-gaunt/

thanks og.being a dull taff who lived in the days of pigeon post i tried to connect but to no avail.