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Planning a drive up North in December with family on a UK licence


arnold40844

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Thanks for reading, any advice on this would be great.

I am planning a trip up North with Family over the new year and had some concerns over what to expect at police checkpoints on my licence. I have a full UK drivers licence and counterpart, no IDP and have been in the Kingdom for around 20 months. I know its something that i should have sorted out and am actually trying to get it done next week before we do the trip.

What i wanted to know is as my insurance on the car covers me with my UK licence am I likely to run in to any problems at checkpoints? I will be doing one leg of the journey on my own as they are flying back first couple of weeks in Jan. Assuming all goes smoothly and i get my Thai licence on Monday there should be no issues.

Does anyone have any horror stories of being stopped at a checkpoint and thrown in jail for 17 years, any ideas of likely fines I would receive?

My wife is all mai pen rai about it, saying at worst i will be fined a couple of g's and be able to go on my merry way.

Thanks in advance.

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I thought UK licences were not valid here, you had to have an IDP or thai licence. Are you sure your insurance is valid with an UK licence?

I suspect there would be no major problems apart from a small fine UNLESS you were involved in an accident of some sort. Get your thai licence now, it's easy.

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I thought UK licences were not valid here, you had to have an IDP or thai licence. Are you sure your insurance is valid with an UK licence?

I suspect there would be no major problems apart from a small fine UNLESS you were involved in an accident of some sort. Get your thai licence now, it's easy.

I should be able my licence next week, just need to sort out a few docs.

The insurance company says im insured, we made sure of that when i bought the car. I checked with them again this morning but would feel a lot better if i had it in writing. What sort of fine do you think im likely to face?

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Get a Thai Driver's licence - don't go asking for trouble....(which you are, if you drive with a UK Licence) - murphy's law.

I am fully aware that in an ideal world i should have a Thai driving licence and that i should do this as a matter of urgency. one thingt that may delay this process is that my passport was accidentally put through an intensive 60 degree wash cycle and it may not be accepted.

Lets just say im am in a position where getting a drivers licence before I make this trip is not possible. I have confirmed twice now with my insurance company that I am fully covered in the event of an accident.

My question was what is the likely outcome of going through police checkpoints with my UK licence, i will carry with me proof of address in Thailand from the embassy and just say i am still waiting for my licence. i am warare that i need to get a Thai licence and fully intend to this as soon as I possible can, but lets just say i have to make this trip on my UK licence, what is the worst that can happen assuming that i am full insured?

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YOur UK license is valid for a limited period of time only, 3 months. By now you need a Thai license, IDP will not be of any legal value.

Also technically i spent a week in Laos about a month ago, does this mean that it is now valid again? What is the cooling off period for validity to be restored?

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YOur UK license is valid for a limited period of time only, 3 months. By now you need a Thai license, IDP will not be of any legal value.

When I was stopped recently (having left my IDP at the condo) I was fined 400 Baht at the police station for not carrying a licence. I had my UK licence(s) with me.

My IDP covers me for 3 months for all vehicles and is valid in Thailand.

Much easier for the Op to go get one. Allocate a day for the trip as they can be very busy.

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YOur UK license is valid for a limited period of time only, 3 months. By now you need a Thai license, IDP will not be of any legal value.

When I was stopped recently (having left my IDP at the condo) I was fined 400 Baht at the police station for not carrying a licence. I had my UK licence(s) with me.

My IDP covers me for 3 months for all vehicles and is valid in Thailand.

Much easier for the Op to go get one. Allocate a day for the trip as they can be very busy.

Did you have to go to the station or did you have the option of paying them at the roadside?

Like I mentioned I am going to try and my Thai licence before the trip, I just want to know what's the worst that can happen?

For example when i was in the UK, I was stopped for having no insurance, stupid mistake I moved house, changed my address with the bank but not with my insurance company, my payment did not go through and I was unaware. Got stopped, car impounded £600 to get it back, fined £800 and my insurance went up 10X for 6 years. This is now off my licence but the mistake cost me around £10k GBP.

I don't imagine the penalty here will be quite so severe but just wanted to get an idea of a worst case scenario... i dont want to get locked up in a cell or anything...

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The penalty for a police stop might be only a few hundred baht but if you had an accident and wrote off a mercedes you might find yourself with no insurance and a BIG bill.

According to my insurance company I could plow through a Bugatti show room whilst drunk, firing an AK47 out of the window and singing god save the queen... According to them I would still be covered... As mentioned i would feel more comfortable if I get that in writing from them, if I do the trip without a licence its something i will definitely be requesting.

Probably worth noting that I would only be covered 3rd party for a drug fueled terroristic rampage.

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The penalty for a police stop might be only a few hundred baht but if you had an accident and wrote off a mercedes you might find yourself with no insurance and a BIG bill.

According to my insurance company I could plow through a Bugatti show room whilst drunk, firing an AK47 out of the window and singing god save the queen... According to them I would still be covered... As mentioned i would feel more comfortable if I get that in writing from them, if I do the trip without a licence its something i will definitely be requesting.

Not true.

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YOur UK license is valid for a limited period of time only, 3 months. By now you need a Thai license, IDP will not be of any legal value.

Also technically i spent a week in Laos about a month ago, does this mean that it is now valid again? What is the cooling off period for validity to be restored?

Nothing to do with cooling off periods. If you are a resident you need a Thai license. If you are a visitor/tourist you can use your home license no problem. There is no time period written into any law but it is one way to determine your status as a resident or tourist.

IDP is not needed in Thailand.

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I always thought an IDL was ONLY good, in conjunction with your overseas (i.e. Australian/ UK/ US whatever,) MDL and ONLY for a period of THREE Months from your date of arrival in Thailand.

Top option... get a THAI MDL before you start driving up to the North.

Second option... get a THAI MDL before you start.....

Third Option.... drive with what you have and pray you DON'T have an accident, get stopped for a traffic violation or even just a "friendly chat."

Cheers!!!

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You are not a resident in Thailand if you have a non-immigrant visa, doesn't matter if you've stayed here a billion years.

You do need an IDP to drive in Thailand especially to cover insurance claims.

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Title 3: Driver's License

Section 42
Anyone who wishes to drive a motor vehicle on public roads must possess an appropriate driver's license. The driver must carry the driver's license and a photocopy of the registration book and show them to competent officers upon request. This does not apply for those who are learning to drive a motor vehicle according to the provision of Section 57.

If the driver is an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa, he may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license specified in the Section 42-2. In such a case, he must carry documents specified by the treaty between the Thai government and the government which issued such driver's license, and show them to competent officers upon request.

Section 42-2
In case there's a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver's license, an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license issued by such a foreign government, or an automobile association authorized by such a foreign government.

http://www.gt-rider.com/thailand-motorcycle-forum/showthread.php/36634-Traffic-Laws-in-Thailand-A-translation-%28from-www-bkkriders-com%29

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My first thought was WHY hasn't he sorted this out earlier???

My main concern now though would be insurance.... Despite what the company have said (did you get it in writing?) I would be 100% sure especially in the case of a big claim.

However the police are in a position to hassle you...even though you can probably talk your way out of I t...you need a Thai licence....it makes a lot of things run smoother....

Edited by wilcopops
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I thought UK licences were not valid here, you had to have an IDP or thai licence. Are you sure your insurance is valid with an UK licence?

I suspect there would be no major problems apart from a small fine UNLESS you were involved in an accident of some sort. Get your thai licence now, it's easy.

I asked a rental company here if i can rent a car on a Australian license, and was told yes as long as the licence is in ENGLISH.

Otherwise you have to have an International License.

And that was last week.

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You are not a resident in Thailand if you have a non-immigrant visa, doesn't matter if you've stayed here a billion years.

Not true. If you live here, and are not just a tourist, then you are a resident. Sounds like you may be getting the term confused with "permanent resident" which is something completely different.

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I thought UK licences were not valid here, you had to have an IDP or thai licence. Are you sure your insurance is valid with an UK licence?

I suspect there would be no major problems apart from a small fine UNLESS you were involved in an accident of some sort. Get your thai licence now, it's easy.

I asked a rental company here if i can rent a car on a Australian license, and was told yes as long as the licence is in ENGLISH.

Otherwise you have to have an International License.

And that was last week.

Yes, they will all say that, as will all the insurance companies. I have checked with several myself. Also with several traffic police, including supervisors. All said the same. No IDP needed in Thailand. BUT, you must be a tourist, the license must be in English, have a photo, be valid and current, (not suspended in your home country, though Thai police will never know) and be for the class of vehicle you are driving.

Having said that, it doesn't hurt to have one. Thai police are wholly corrupt and may try to bluff you out of money if you don't have one and aren't familiar with the law.

Edited by NomadJoe
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You are not a resident in Thailand if you have a non-immigrant visa, doesn't matter if you've stayed here a billion years.

You do need an IDP to drive in Thailand especially to cover insurance claims.

I beg to differ. Have been told that if staying in Thailand for the long term then one becomes a resident of Thailand after 3 months and some have said 6 months. Even if not officially a Thai resident, one is no longer a UK resident either.

Although International Driving Licences are valid for up to one year after arrival in Thailand, after three months many comprehensive insurance policies are made void if still driving on a foreign licence.

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You are not a resident in Thailand if you have a non-immigrant visa, doesn't matter if you've stayed here a billion years.

You do need an IDP to drive in Thailand especially to cover insurance claims.

I beg to differ. Have been told that if staying in Thailand for the long term then one becomes a resident of Thailand after 3 months and some have said 6 months. Even if not officially a Thai resident, one is no longer a UK resident either.

Although International Driving Licences are valid for up to one year after arrival in Thailand, after three months many comprehensive insurance policies are made void if still driving on a foreign licence.

The 3 month thing is a rule of thumb, and may in fact be in some policies. You would have to check with the insurer. The line between resident and tourist is vague, but most people fall firmly into one or the other.

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This country seems to be governed by rules of thumb.

There are several reasons that I have not got a Thai licence yet, its just not been possible due to tourist Visa's, visa exemptions etc.. I am now on a non-O so should be fairly straight forward. i am going to get myself down to whatever office they have on Monday and try to get one.

Any advice on what I need to take with me.

Thanks

You are not a resident in Thailand if you have a non-immigrant visa, doesn't matter if you've stayed here a billion years.

You do need an IDP to drive in Thailand especially to cover insurance claims.

I beg to differ. Have been told that if staying in Thailand for the long term then one becomes a resident of Thailand after 3 months and some have said 6 months. Even if not officially a Thai resident, one is no longer a UK resident either.

Although International Driving Licences are valid for up to one year after arrival in Thailand, after three months many comprehensive insurance policies are made void if still driving on a foreign licence.

The 3 month thing is a rule of thumb, and may in fact be in some policies. You would have to check with the insurer. The line between resident and tourist is vague, but most people fall firmly into one or the other.

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Title 3: Driver's License

Section 42

Anyone who wishes to drive a motor vehicle on public roads must possess an appropriate driver's license. The driver must carry the driver's license and a photocopy of the registration book and show them to competent officers upon request. This does not apply for those who are learning to drive a motor vehicle according to the provision of Section 57.

If the driver is an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa, he may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license specified in the Section 42-2. In such a case, he must carry documents specified by the treaty between the Thai government and the government which issued such driver's license, and show them to competent officers upon request.

Section 42-2

In case there's a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver's license, an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license issued by such a foreign government, or an automobile association authorized by such a foreign government.

http://www.gt-rider.com/thailand-motorcycle-forum/showthread.php/36634-Traffic-Laws-in-Thailand-A-translation-%28from-www-bkkriders-com%29

Seems clear to me ATF. Big fat OR right in there.

Seems every few months we need to be reminded of this:

Every now and then I post this, which I wrote over the span of a year since I always get asked these questions.

A few years ago I read in the paper a quote from a top BIB (which I really wish I could find) that made it all clear. He said that the official position of the BIB is that an English language license with a photo is considered an international license and thus does not require an IDP endorsement. This was probably due to the changes in technology, the fact that most licenses now have photos and are in English. In 1949 (The year of the Geneva Convention) most did not. What the big BIB said makes sense when you realize that none of the languages an IDP translates your license into are Thai. In fact many states in America no longer require them just as many other countries now don't. So that is how I believe the "IDP is required in Thailand for tourists" rumor got started. It may have once been the case, but no longer.
The first important piece to this is the Geneva Convention on Road Traffic act of 1949. This is where organizations like the Australian, Canadian, British, and U.S. auto clubs get their information simply by looking at who had signed and/or ratified the act and use that to determine whether an IDP is required or not without actually reading the act. This act, which isn't a law but a treaty, (agreement between counties) covers a great many things like road design, road markings, signage, license plate design, (which, btw, Thailand is in violation of because they use Thai script, not Roman letters) drivers license design and, of course, the mutual acceptance of drivers licenses. Ever wonder why DL's are so often pink? It comes from this act.
Below is a translation of the relevant section of that act. Notice in paragraph 2 the word "may" as well as the bit after "especially...". I added the *'s so people don't have to look them up. It's crystal clear that the treaty does not force contracting states to require an IDP, it is only an option.
CHAPTER V
DRIVERS OF MOTOR VEHICLES IN INTERNATIONAL TRAFFIC
Article 24
1. Each Contracting State* shall allow any driver admitted to its territory who fulfills the conditions which are set out in Annex 8** and who holds a valid driving permit issued to him, after he has given proof of his competence, by the competent authority of another Contracting State or subdivision thereof, or by an Association duly empowered by such authority, to drive on its roads without further examination motor vehicles of the category or categories defined in Annexes 9 and 10 for which the permit has been issued.
2. A Contracting State may however require that any driver admitted to its territory shall carry an international driving permit conforming to the model contained in Annex 10, especially in the case of a driver coming from a country where a domestic driving permit is not required or where the domestic permit issued to him does not conform to the model contained in Annex 9***.
* Thailand is a contracting state, as they became a party via accession on 15 Aug, 1962.
** Annex 8 references required age of drivers.
*** Annex 9 describes the size of domestic driving permit (driver’s license) colour, size, English language, photo size, etc.
Then, the next and equally important piece of the puzzle is the Land Traffic Act of 1979, Title 3 Section 42. It clearly states that if there is mutual acceptance of licenses through treaty (like the treaty above) then "an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license issued by such a foreign government". Note that your home country and Thailand must have a treaty on mutual licenses. Most do so that shouldn't be a problem.
Land Traffic Act of 1979
Title 3: Driver's License
Section 42
Anyone who wishes to drive a motor vehicle on public roads must possess an appropriate driver's license. The driver must carry the driver's license and a photocopy of the registration book and show them to competent officers upon request. This does not apply for those who are learning to drive a motor vehicle according to the provision of Section 57.
If the driver is an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa, he may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license specified in the Section 42-2. In such a case, he must carry documents specified by the treaty between the Thai government and the government which issued such driver's license, and show them to competent officers upon request.
Section 42-2
In case there's a treaty between the Thai government and a foreign government regarding mutual acceptance of driver's license, an alien who doesn't have an immigrant visa may drive a motor vehicle with a driver's license issued by such a foreign government, or an automobile association authorized by such a foreign government.
---
To address the many claims that "If you're in an accident you can't make a claim without an IDP." or "You can't rent a car without an IDP.".. I submit the following email responses from several car rental companies and insurance companies whom I asked for their policy on this issue. Not a single one came back saying I needed anIDP if a tourist in Thailand. The big companies clearly state it right in their website.
Pure Car Rent:
"Thank you for your email. Intenational drivers license is no need to translate because when it says International it should already in English and it is permited to use internationally.
About insurance coverage, for Pure Car Rent‘s insurance, Thai,
overseas or international driver’s license is acceptable for our
insurance companies. So if you drive Pure Car Rent‘s car with
driver’s license issued by your country, you and the car are covered
by insurance.”
HertzThailand.com:
"Rental Qualification :
Minimum renter age is 21 years.
Must hold a valid Thai driving license or a driving license from a
renter’s country of residence (with an English translation), or an
international driving license."
Drivers License
All drivers must hold a current, non-probationary license.
The license may either be Thai, or from a renter's country of
residence (with an English translation) or an international drivers
permit. Licenses (and a valid passport) must be carried at all times
when driving.
Thai Rent A Car
In order to rent THAI RENT A CAR vehicle, a valid driver’s license from the customer’s country of residence
is required and must be presented at time of rental. International renters must present a valid license from
their country of residence, if the license is in a language rather than English, an International Driver’s
permit is required in conjunction with the country of residence driver’s license
AA Insurance Thailand:
"Your 'home' license is legal in Thailand - as long as it is legal in your own country i.e. not suspended !"
Viriyah Insurance:
“We acknowledge receipt of your e-mail and
very sorry for late reply. Regarding to your question, please be
inform that your legal drivers license issued by The United States of
America (date of license valid) is acceptable to use and drive the car
in Thailand and The Viriyah car insurance will be cover while have an
accident (Just in Thailand). Thank you for your kind interested.”
Bupa Insurance:
"For the international IDP is not a problem sir. As I have check with Bangkok. It’s not a problem for Bupa.
No problem with that and the insurance will be covered you for all.
-Prayurapong Pisanaka, Prayurapong Pisanaka, Executive Health & Financial Manager - Head Office
American International Assurance Company, Limited
----
And for those out there that are still doubting, here is a short collection of first hand accounts from various sources of the seemingly infinite reports of interactions between foriegners driving with no IDP and the Thai police. This reflects the actual reality of the situation on the ground in Thailand and should be the best measuring stick to the legality of diving on your home license with noIDP. It strikes me as very odd that the police who are so fond of finding any little thing to make some tea money seem to be ignoring this if an IDP is required. Anecdotal, yes, but evidence none the less. (No, I didn't write any of the Wiki Answers)
Lonely Planet entry:
"I've rented cars in Thailand many times. All the rental companies ask for is a driver's license (US state) and credit card -- just like everywhere else. I've been stopped by the police several times and the driver's license was fine."
Thaivisa member bob4you
I've been driving here for 5 years, stopped a couple of dozen times. Hawaii drivers license was accepted (never questioned once) each time.
ThaiVisa member bubba:
I have never had an International Driving License and I have driven in Thailand using both hired cars and my own car for about ten years now. I do have a valid licence from home. My insurance policy has a clause that states that only a "valid drivers license" is required for the class of vehicle insured. After inquiring, I got it in writing that this includes foreign licenses. I have been involved in three minor property damage accidents, two in a hire car and one in my own car. Whilst driving on a foreign license, my car was smashed by an uninsured pickup with my repair bill being 24,000 baht. My insurance company sent their adjuster out, he made out a report, and I was compensated fully. None of the police asked for a Thai or international licence, nor did the insurance companies and my own insurance company explicitly allows for coverage of drivers using a foreign licence, so long as that licence is valid for the class of vehicle driven. I have been stopped at police checkpoints and police invented traffic infractions dozens of times, and sometimes they ask for my licence. No problem. The police just want the money, not a big hassle. I have hired cars in Thailand dozens of times and no Thai or international licence is required by those companies either, including the majors such as Avis and Budget.
Here are the car rental companies in Thailand that I have used and none require an IDP or Thai licence so long as I had a recognisable and valid foreign licence:
Hertz
Avis
Budget
Master Car Rental
North Wheels (Chiang Mai)
ThaiVisa member tropa:
“I went through one of these road blocks on 3rd Road yesterday. I showed them my Australian drivers licence and they waved me through.”
landofsmiles from another forum:
"Your [home] licence is fine. Chances are in a few days you won't even go through any police checks and if you do it will still be ok. I don't have a bike endorsement on mine and I've been through dozens of checks. All they want to see is the word LICENCE and your photo."
ThaiVisa member fiddlehead:
"I always just used my state drivers licence from USA ... used the above for about 3 years ... Never got a fine for it. Except once because it had expired."
ThaiVisa member phuketrex:
"5 years in Thailand. Through 100's of police checks. Never a problem showing my British licence."
Commenter Robb at Pattaya One:
" I’ve been driving here for years only on my home country licence and never had a problem. Seem the police like the fact I have all my other documentation for my bike, nicely color photocopied and in a ziplok bag under the seat, they never question the fact I don’t have an international licence"
ThaiVisa member Deaw:
Cruising down 2nd road in Pattaya on my rented 'cycle, not far from the Central Mall; must've been about 30 cops there, with the orange cones and some barricades, flashing red lights, etc.....pulling over EVERY motorcycle, farang and Thai alike. This was at 5pm.
I got waved over by 2 guys .... helmet on; check. One says "license, please", and I hand him my N.Y. state drivers license. While he is looking it over, I say "I am a tourist here, I don't live in Thailand". Then I point to the "M.C." next to the Operator code and tell them "M.C., that means motorcycle".
The older of the 2 says "OK" and they stand aside and let me pass. Total time wasted; 30 seconds.
Total bribe and/or fine paid, and total number of laws broken; None.
ThaiVisa member collectsskulls:
"I have an international drivers permit but have never been asked for it only my Canadian one"
ThaiVisa member Kwasaki:
"I have never needed an IDP in Thailand having a UK valid driving license"
Wiki Answers
"All drivers must hold a current, non-probationary licence either Thai or from their own country but if it is not Thai or English they must carry an English translation or an international driving licence."
Wiki Answers
"I drove in Thailand for the first 12 months on a west Australian licence and was often checked but never a problem. Each time I was stopped at a police check point, the policeman seemed more intent on proving that he could read my name.
After that 12 months I got an International liicence whch was a waste of money as I still only showed my Australian licence.
So ,, short answer No you dont need one"
Wiki Answers
"International or US Driver's License and Passport is all you need."
Wiki Answers
"You don't have to have an international driver's license to rent a car, the rental agencies will rent you a car with a valid license from your home country. If you get stopped by the police make sure you show them your passport and the tourist visa stamp"
Wiki Answers
"If you are a farang and possess your home drivers license, that is enough. If a policeman (especially in Udon Thani) stops you, you simply show him your drivers license"
-----
Of course it doesn't hurt to have an IDP as long as it's not the bogus ones you see advertised online.
So bottom line, if a BIB does try one on and attempt to do you for no IDP as a tourist, all you need to do is point to your English license with a photo and repeat "International already." Show them your passport/copy of with your tourist visa/visa exempt stamp. Speaking Thai to him will only work against you. If he decides that you are a resident and not a tourist/visitor, he may try to cite you for not having a Thai DL, but that has nothing to do with IDP's.
Do the above and I guarantee the BIB can not legally cite you for diving on just your home license if:
1) You are a toursit/visitor.
2) It is in English.
3) It has a photo.
4) It is current
5) It is for the class of vehicle you are diving.
6) Your home country and Thailand have a mutual agreement on licenses. (Most do)
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