Daughter's fight to bring father back to UK after devastating Thailand bike crash

[Commerce]

Totally agree but there is a limit on the payouts of all insurance policies. This is why he needs to get back to the uk where he will be taken care of by the NHS

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought I read quite recently that British expats were no longer entitled to NHS treatment once they'd left the uk for more than 6 months ?

Anybody from anywhere is entitled to emergency NHS treatment, at any time. An ex-pat holding a British passport has as much entitlement as a Pole, Muslim, Paki, Scouser or tramp.

Any British citizen who is resident abroad isn't entitled to free treatment from the NHS until they have lived back in the UK for a period of 1 year. How do I know? I too had a serious motorcycle accident here in Bangkok suffering a brachial plexus injury paralysing my right arm, a fractured shoulder blade, 2 broken ribs, a punctured lung, and a broken right leg and ankle requiring more metal than an East End scrapyard. Following my recovery I went back to the UK to visit family and ended up iin hospital when my leg gave way. I was billed for the subsequent treatment. As soon as you give them your National Insurance number a quick look up tells them everything they need to know about you. It's only free at point of entry, i.e. immediate emergency treatment in A&E. Unfortunately, this guy's family are facing a huge bill back in Blighty for his treatment there.

If you re-read what I wrote.. 'emergency NHS treatment'. You had been treated here...

[moobie]

I wonder if the daughter in this situation realises that she may be about to begin a new life as a dedicated carer with the potential for her father to be housed with her rather than a (Private/NHS) hospital bed?

In this situation it is not the victim I feel sorry for but his loved ones who may be about to embark on a life changing journey. Hopefully they will be seeking to find out the level of care and which services may / may not be available. It will be interesting to see what the NHS do in the case since treatment (non-A&E) is based on residency not a passport.

my views are that when anyone puts themselves outside the jurisdiction of the UK tax collectors they should not able to return to the UK for free treatment, but unfortunately by having British citizenship they have legal right to do so and in the UK everybody who needs treatment will get it, even if they are not entitled to free treatment and can not pay.

I have felt for a long time those who have not say reached the age of 65, and are not paying or receiving NI credits should be paying a flat rate contribution particularly those living abroad, and before passports are renewed the passport office should check with work and pensions that the applicant is up to date with their NI contributions.

Anyone who comes a "cropper" whilst in the UK has free access to A&E services regardless from where they have come.

However, beyond this is where it gets interesting because there are tiers of "follow-on" care depending on the immigration status of that individual. A non-resident will often as not be given what is called "stabilisation treatment" this being a level of treatment to cover the basics but not anywhere near the extent of that of a resident. Further a charge can be levied on non-residents where the level of treatment is given beyond this and it is felt appropriate and within legal guidelines.

As for ex-pats : See page 10 : https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/329789/NHS_Implentatation_Plan_Phase_3.PDF

With this specific case being in the news both council welfare and hospital administrators already have enough information to begin asking some uncomfortable questions. I believe one of the initial ones will ask about the existence of any assets abroad, etc.

(My own thoughts on "rights to NHS treatment" would be go down the route of ensuring that all those leaving and entering our borders should have to show proof of adequate health insurance prior to departure or arrival. Whilst not all encompassing, it is a start.)

[binjalin]

very sorry to read this and wish all the best - a horrifying ordeal which, probably, will never be over. helmet is 100% MUST here as you have to assume all drivers/riders are retarded and YOU may end up in a ditch one day, hopefully that day will never come... horrifying and sickening (and frightening).

Edited December 20, 2014 by binjalin

[speedtripler]

Interesting order you place the entitled, couldn't help but notice that a Pole or a Tramp are the most important (depending on starting with or finishing with least important) which of course leaves the question for the Scousers to ask.

if it were my list id have put the tramp before the scouser in last place .......

[evadgib]

34 years service to the crown attracts govt pension(s) taxed at source regardless of geographic location. This and other factors (house? Family ties? Full NI contributions?) blow the notion that he isn't resident / domiciled and is trying to get a freebee from uk taxpayers once he gets home as utter tosh.

Edited December 20, 2014 by evadgib

[maynard420]

Some insurance companies do not insure people driving motorbikes in Thailand and it voids there insurance

All insurance companies will cover him if he had a international carrier or a Thai carrier like Bupa, I was in a horrific crash 9 years ago on 3rd in pattaya, when the ambulance got there I was without a pulse, I remember nothing but waking up 3 months later with my mouth wired shut and 19 metals plates and a tracheotomy, I was in BKK Patt Hospital for almost 6 months, my bill came to 6.5 million baht, insurance paid 90% of it and I only had to pay 600k baht, doctors did an amazing job.

[i claudius]

Bit of bad reporting about this story. They have omitted the fact that this guy has retired over here and has been here for the last 2 years so any sort of holiday insurance is not possible. It is the cost of repatriating him that they are trying to get money for. How many people have insurance with no limit on it? Also how many expats have insurance that covers repatriation?

I you are gonna retire somewhere sort out your insurance first. That a lot of people don't give a shit and start begging when it goes wrong makes no difference.

He should have known better with his long career in the force, must have seen loads of accidents.

I have insurance with my car ,but you try getting any other form of insurance over 65 here , when i came here aged 60 the premiums were so high ,it just was not viable.

[Soutpeel]

Some insurance companies do not insure people driving motorbikes in Thailand and it voids there insurance

All insurance companies will cover him if he had a international carrier or a Thai carrier like Bupa, I was in a horrific crash 9 years ago on 3rd in pattaya, when the ambulance got there I was without a pulse, I remember nothing but waking up 3 months later with my mouth wired shut and 19 metals plates and a tracheotomy, I was in BKK Patt Hospital for almost 6 months, my bill came to 6.5 million baht, insurance paid 90% of it and I only had to pay 600k baht, doctors did an amazing job.

And in hindsight aren't you glad you had the insurance ? What would have your life been today if you had to fork out THB 6.5 million when you woke up ?

[SiSePuede419]

"Ese Hombre,I hope that you never have any problems while you are in Thailand with that thinking"

I seriously doubt that knowing that mixing motorbikes + excessive alcohol consumption can "guarantee" a lack of problems in Thailand.

I've made the mistake of telling many people that I'm probably the smartest person they've EVER met in their entire life.

Most stupid people assume they're the smartest person in the room, 555

And besides, how on earth is someone with limited intelligence (to stay on topic, let'define limited intelligence=farangs who drink excessively and ride motorbikes) going to recognize someone smarter and wiser than themselves?

As Brian Greene says, it's like teaching your dog about Physics...

[keebone]

so he retired there happy days nice pension for 2 years gets in big trouble and now wants to come home so that the british tax payer picks up his health care bill for life house him feed him this country the uk was not good enough for him he left so now he and the family why he there and the rest uk want us to foot his bill some times in life people can expect a little to much mind you proberly not him its the family want him back how much did they give to poor poepl i wonder we dont know so wont judge that one

Since he retired at only 52, fair to assume some kind of disability-pension, which didn't prevent him from driving motorbike on Koh Chang!!

Karma?

Police in the UK of his age can retire after 30 years service so may well of joined at say 20. Having said that many police retire early on medical grounds, like the guy I knew who retired with pension and £800'000 payout at about 35 after being run over and found unfit for duty, he subsequently spent a lot of time playing in a local football team. You then get the police who are accused of misconduct and suddenly retire with pension due to ill health.

My advice for this guys family would be an appeal through the police association.

[balo]

very sorry to read this and wish all the best - a horrifying ordeal which, probably, will never be over. helmet is 100% MUST here as you have to assume all drivers/riders are retarded and YOU may end up in a ditch one day, hopefully that day will never come... horrifying and sickening (and frightening).

But not a typical Thai helmet , that will not protect your head. I real one that is recommended in EU costs around 4000 baht in Thailand. Helmets sold at Big C for 400 baht will not protect you at all.

[Basil B]

As this was a motorbike accident, would not not his bike insurance cover his medical bills???

[FritsSikkink]

Bit of bad reporting about this story. They have omitted the fact that this guy has retired over here and has been here for the last 2 years so any sort of holiday insurance is not possible. It is the cost of repatriating him that they are trying to get money for. How many people have insurance with no limit on it? Also how many expats have insurance that covers repatriation?

I you are gonna retire somewhere sort out your insurance first. That a lot of people don't give a shit and start begging when it goes wrong makes no difference.

He should have known better with his long career in the force, must have seen loads of accidents.

I have insurance with my car ,but you try getting any other form of insurance over 65 here , when i came here aged 60 the premiums were so high ,it just was not viable.

It all depends on your priorities. you drive a car but don't want to insure your health costs.

Edited December 20, 2014 by FritsSikkink

[Mister Fixit]

Apparently he moved to Thailand two years ago so travel insurance wouldn't be applicable.

However, health/accident insurance should be taken out by everyone living here, if they don't have the funds to self insure.

Totally agree but there is a limit on the payouts of all insurance policies. This is why he needs to get back to the uk where he will be taken care of by the NHS

Not necessarily. If he's been out of the UK for three months or more (and he's been out for 2 years), he loses his entitlement to free NHS care. He'd be charged if he didn't meet the criteria for permanent UK residency.

http://www.pah.nhs.uk/files/c)%20Non%20Resident%20UK%20Citizens.pdf

[pedro01]

Bit of bad reporting about this story. They have omitted the fact that this guy has retired over here and has been here for the last 2 years so any sort of holiday insurance is not possible. It is the cost of repatriating him that they are trying to get money for. How many people have insurance with no limit on it? Also how many expats have insurance that covers repatriation?

I live here too.

Yet I have comprehensive insurance that covers repatriation to the UK in event of something serious happening.

It's just one of the things you have to take care of.

[Mister Fixit]

The NHS does not normally provide free hospital treatment for people who do not reside in the UK even if they are UK nationals

• If you have lived outside the UK for more than 3 months (6 months for some pensioners) in the last year you can be charged

• You will be exempt from charges if you can produce evidence that you have been working abroad for less than 5 years and have lived in the UK continuously for at least 10 years at some point

[steve187]

He did 14 years in the armed service 18 years old to 32 years old. will he be receiving a pension for that length of service already he is now 54

20 years in the police force 32 years old to 52 years old , he will not be in receipt of a pension yet would need to be 60 or even 65 , unless he had a medical reason.

seems young to retire, without a good pension income.

I haven't found many details of the accident, it seems to mention Pattaya, yet someone posted it was koh Chang. The mention of Pattaya will raise all sorts of images in peoples minds back in the UK

[paulchiangmai]

Apparently he moved to Thailand two years ago so travel insurance wouldn't be applicable.

However, health/accident insurance should be taken out by everyone living here, if they don't have the funds to self insure.

[/qu

Perhaps you can tell me where to get this motor cycle insurance, I can't find anyone to insure a motor cyclist in their late seventies. And I can do without all the negative replies re shouldn't be riding a motor cycle at that age.

[Baerboxer]

Why don't people buy comprehensive insurance when they travel? I just don't get it

You are a very cold hearted man. If you look outside you nose tip and don't think see me, I has a inssurence im a clever boy and think about martial laws are infect and maybe he's not able to get insurance.

I know the feelings with this poor guys family. I have been there, so I know how hard it is.

My advice to you. Try to get some feelings in your life and don't be so cold bas*****

What an over reaction!

This man was able to retire very early to Thailand, thanks to long careers in the military and police in the UK - which will provide good pensions. He retired here 2 years ago, assuming he's not in business here. He has lived here long enough to decide whether or not to ride a motor cycle and whether or not to take our appropriate health insurance. These are decisions he made as a mature adult who had spent all his career in dangerous occupations.

Any accident is unfortunate, and no one wants to see anybody hurt like this. But calling some one a cold bastard for pointing out the obvious beggars belief, Or do you think any one can do anything they like and expect others to pick the tab up if something goes wrong?

He has the intelligence and desire to do things - commendable. With that goes responsibility for your actions.

If you read the article, looks like his family are already into the British military, police and associated charities.

[Baerboxer]

The NHS does not normally provide free hospital treatment for people who do not reside in the UK even if they are UK nationals

• If you have lived outside the UK for more than 3 months (6 months for some pensioners) in the last year you can be charged

• You will be exempt from charges if you can produce evidence that you have been working abroad for less than 5 years and have lived in the UK continuously for at least 10 years at some point

Hasn't that been, or about to be changed? I thought I read where now, if you are a UK national, treatment will be free providing you paid more than so many years NHI - 10 or 11 I think?

Anyone know?

[Chaz1819]

Ahhh only people could be as perfect as some of these posters seem to be.

It could happen to anyone anytime. My heart goes out to him and his family.

[Chaz1819]

Bit of bad reporting about this story. They have omitted the fact that this guy has retired over here and has been here for the last 2 years so any sort of holiday insurance is not possible. It is the cost of repatriating him that they are trying to get money for. How many people have insurance with no limit on it? Also how many expats have insurance that covers repatriation?

Thanks for getting this info out here. So many people are so quick to bash that they have little time to think.

[Soutpeel]

Ahhh only people could be as perfect as some of these posters seem to be.

It could happen to anyone anytime. My heart goes out to him and his family.

what is "perfect" about having adequate medical insurance in a country where a person had no recourse to free medical treatment ? Its common sense

Yes the case is a sad, and yes insurance would not have prevented this accident, but what it would have done is ensured the guy gets the proper treatment and not have any worries about paying for said treatment

Multiple members on TV regularly accuse Thai's of being stupid, lacking in common sense and not thinking about the future, if as a farang your living in Thailand long term or as a tourist, without adequate insurance, then they must be lacking in the same common sense, they accuse Thai's of not having

[tommytitfull]

the guy had money so why he not buy insurance in Thailand i did for 8 years there.Now his family hope they raise the money for his mistake in not having insurance.

[berybert]

How much would it cost to fly this guy home ? 30-40 thousand pounds ?

Much cheaper to pay the medical bills in Thailand I would imagine.

Maybe dearest daughter just cant be bothered to fly to Thailand.

[fey]

can he stand up? wheelchair him through the airport and use a big scarf. risky, but were talking $100G

[Vejo]

F.A.O. berybert

I almost admire your efforts to show off just how ignorant and callous you can be. The way you don't let let knowledge or understanding influence your opinion is exemplary. Let me read the article and break it down for you.

Fifty four year old man has bike accident that breaks his neck leaving him requiring a ventilator.

The inference of that type of injury is he has suffered an injury to his spinal cord at a level leaving him without sensation or movement below his neck, as well as being unable to breathe without mechanical intervention. The most famous person I know to suffer this injury was Christopher Reeve.

His wife and son are already by his bedside. "Dearest daughter" is at home in the U.K. fundraising. Why would she waste money going to Thailand when her focus is raising money not spending it?

This man could live for another thirty years. What sort of medical care do you think he would for £1000 a year, £3 a day?

Please reply, idiots of your level are rare and just make me feel so much better about myself.

Edited December 20, 2014 by Vejo

[Mister Fixit]

The NHS does not normally provide free hospital treatment for people who do not reside in the UK even if they are UK nationals

• If you have lived outside the UK for more than 3 months (6 months for some pensioners) in the last year you can be charged

• You will be exempt from charges if you can produce evidence that you have been working abroad for less than 5 years and have lived in the UK continuously for at least 10 years at some point

Hasn't that been, or about to be changed? I thought I read where now, if you are a UK national, treatment will be free providing you paid more than so many years NHI - 10 or 11 I think?

Anyone know?

I don't think that is correct. I think you are getting confused with pensions, where you need to have a minimum number of years contributions to get the basic State pension.

From the Wikipedia site on NHS England - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Health_Service_(England)#Free_services_and_contributory_services

'Eligibility for free NHS services is based on having "permanent residence status" (a birthright for some or granted by the Home Office for those who have immigrated). The person must be registered with a general practitioner and have an NHS card and number.'

'Those who are not "ordinarily resident" who do not fall into the above category (including British citizens who may have paid National Insurance contributions in the past) are liable to charges for services.'

My emphasis.

Also see - http://www.permanentresident.co.uk/ and http://www.ukpermits.com/visa-types/permanent-residence

From the latter - To keep your permanent residence you should not spend longer than two years outside the UK. You should maintain ties to the UK and should consider the UK as your home.

And from www.gov.uk/living-in-thailand -

Healthcare

Your entitlement to free NHS treatment depends on the length and purpose of your residence in the UK, not your nationality. You must be able to show UK residency to be eligible for free treatment, even if you are a British citizen. The Citizens’ Advice Bureau or NHS can provide further information.

So, basically, he is not likely to be be eligible for FREE NHS treatment if he returns, BUT I have heard of cases when people come back with life-threatening injuries and the rules are ignored.

Good luck to him, but I think he's got a good chance of having to pay ...

Luckily, I am still registered with a UK address and an NHS GP and whenever I go over, I always get a load of blood tests etc done free, but then I have been friends with the practice nurse for years.

Finally, try here for more information on the 'habitual residence test' (which I would fail) -

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/benefits_w/benefits_coming_from_abroad_and_claiming_benefits_hrt/benefits_the_habitual_residence_test_introduction/what_is_the_habitual_residence_test.htm

Edited December 21, 2014 by Mister Fixit

[mick01827]

Be nice to see the British government step in and take some money from the pot to help this guy.

[Chao Lao Beach]

Bit of bad reporting about this story. They have omitted the fact that this guy has retired over here and has been here for the last 2 years so any sort of holiday insurance is not possible. It is the cost of repatriating him that they are trying to get money for. How many people have insurance with no limit on it? Also how many expats have insurance that covers repatriation?

The VAST MAJORITY of my expat friends do, and two have been flown home over the years in a areo-medical jet with no fuss from the insurance company.

Cost me about $180 a month. Seriously, there are no excuses.

Even though Thai med insurance is cheap that would foot a lot of the bill for this, he had every right to take it out for less than $500 a year.