Myanmar embassy seeking defence witnesses for Koh Tao accused

[IslandLover]

jimmybkk, on 21 Dec 2014 - 20:49, said:

changnaam, on 21 Dec 2014 - 15:49, said:

Interesting theory Jimmy, but my opinion, and again only an opinion is that the anger was directed at Hannah because she turned someone down in public who is never turned down. That person lost a huge amount of face, and this was the retribution to show that this person will not tolerate such behavior, and they are above the law.

Also a possibility changnaam, but I just think that the anger and rage that was evident perhaps required something more than just being turned down. I mean if you consider the elements of her murder on a scale of 1 to 4, I would say 1 = rape, 2 = rape + murder, 3 = rape + brutal murder, and 4 = rape + brutal murder + crime scene staging. Bearing in mind that she had only arrived on the island a couple of days before she was killed I would be surprised if enough emotional attachment had occurred that the killer decided that her "crime" of rejecting him warranted a straight number 4 sentence.

I apologize if my description of the crime was too graphic for some people, but please believe I intentionally fell short of what the crime scene photos reveal. I do think, however, that people need to understand just how horrific this crime was. This was not a case of "I never meant to kill her... I just put a pillow over her face to keep her quiet... and when I took the pillow away she was already dead..." Please do not place this killing in that category. This killing should be placed in the same category as the killings of some of the worst serial killers this world has seen.

My heart bleeds for the parents of David and Hannah, and to them I offer my deepest and most sincere condolences. But my blood is also boiling at some people who are attempting to convince the world at large that the killers have been brought to justice and the island of Koh Tao is now safe, when in fact I think there is a very good possibility that this psychopath is still on the island, and it is for that reason that I keep posting here.

Personally I would not let my daughter go anywhere near that island right now and the guilty verdict on these 2 Burmese lads will not change that fact at all, and anyone who is protecting the identity of the real killer deserves to rot in hell for placing at risk someone else's son or daughter.

I apologize if my description of the crime was too graphic for some people, but please believe I intentionally fell short of what the crime scene photos reveal. I do think, however, that people need to understand just how horrific this crime was.

@jimmybkk - whilst I did not agee with some of what you wrote in your original post and concur with changnaam, I think the above statement accurately describes why so many people have been affected by this awful case. It is the reason I have followed it on this forum from the beginning. I have also seen the crime scene photos and like you, believe the crime scene was staged. This was a hate crime of the worst possible sort and I personally don't believe that the B2 could have done this, drunk or otherwise. Something really evil is going on on Koh Tao.

[IslandLover]

evadgib, on 21 Dec 2014 - 05:33, said:evadgib, on 21 Dec 2014 - 05:33, said:

Furthermore the act of rounding up witnesses constitutes 'interfering' under international convention; a fact likely to be challenged in court.

Does that also apply to the prosecution? Or just the defence?

Edited December 22, 2014 by IslandLover

[evadgib]

It applies to all.

Edited December 22, 2014 by evadgib

[thailandchilli]

It applies to all.

Good to hear

"Man says police beat him after he declined to be witness in Koh Tao murder case" http://www.prachatai.com/english/node/4373

[evadgib]

Where is the foreign interferance in that?

Edited December 22, 2014 by evadgib

[thailandchilli]

Considering the prosecution has now gained 'many witnesses' that they did not have before then its very relevant

The prosecutor cited in court that the delayed prosecution was due to the amount of evidence and many witnesses, including foreign nationals http://www.mizzima.com/mizzima-news/regional/item/15433-koh-tao-murder-suspects-appeal-for-more-witnesses/15433-koh-tao-murder-suspects-appeal-for-more-witnesses

Edited December 22, 2014 by thailandchilli

[stephen terry]

but their "supporters" believe in a fair trial!!

Yes just like the Government does.................................................... NOT!

Quote,

The lawyers for both sides are to meet on 26 December to discuss the first round of and locations for hearings. This date may be postponed because the Government failed last week to produce its list of witnesses and evidence on time. This is a standard ugly ploy used to compel the defense to produce its evidence and witness first, while the prosecution ignores court orders at will.

There's never going to be a fair trial. Already been decided that the B2 must carry the can for the good of Thailand. If they get off it would be a miracle better than Buddha finding enlightment.

There is a sinister undertone to this latest development. It could be read that the prosecution case is not as 'solid' that that it can be rail-roaded through without challenges. For the defence to supply named witnesses is an 'opportunity' for the RTP or others to intimidate them and/or their families before they can give evidence. I'm not saying this would happen, but if there is a cover-up it would be a possibility, wouldn't it?

Yet another example of a fair and transparent trial process that won't ever happen here. Words fail to describe the disgust I feel about this whole orchestrated process.

[CantSpell]

The ability to obtain a DNA profile of a semen donor from a vagina using

routine DNA profiling decreases rapidly after 24 to 36 hours following

coitus and it is usually not possible to perform a profile after 48 hours

(Saferstein, 2005)."

I am not a Dr but I was told by one that it could be impossible to plant DNA as the DNA from different sources (hair, semen, skin) will have different composant and the source can be identified.

So let's say, could the defense actually ask for the "evidence" sample to be analysed again: just to make sure it comes from semen and has not be "collected" on the B2 from the first round of tests that cleared them?

[Eirene]

I wonder if this British tourist is one of the witnesses for the defence? Anyone read a followup to this story?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/What-about-bar-manager-accused-of-harassing-victim-30246806.html

Edit: Perhaps this is a messed up version of the Sean McAnna story.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Eirene

[JOC]

Interesting theory Jimmy, but my opinion, and again only an opinion is that the anger was directed at Hannah because she turned someone down in public who is never turned down. That person lost a huge amount of face, and this was the retribution to show that this person will not tolerate such behavior, and they are above the law.

Don't know why, but the name Nomsod popped up in my head!!

[AleG]

The ability to obtain a DNA profile of a semen donor from a vagina using

routine DNA profiling decreases rapidly after 24 to 36 hours following

coitus and it is usually not possible to perform a profile after 48 hours

(Saferstein, 2005)."

I am not a Dr but I was told by one that it could be impossible to plant DNA as the DNA from different sources (hair, semen, skin) will have different composant and the source can be identified.

So let's say, could the defense actually ask for the "evidence" sample to be analysed again: just to make sure it comes from semen and has not be "collected" on the B2 from the first round of tests that cleared them?

That is correct, to begin with sperm cell are haploid, meaning they have only half the chromosomes of a normal cell.

[tattoodrob]

I wonder if this British tourist is one of the witnesses for the defence? Anyone read a followup to this story?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/What-about-bar-manager-accused-of-harassing-victim-30246806.html

Edit: Perhaps this is a messed up version of the Sean McAnna story.

If this photo and witness turn up then is very interesting to the case, if this pic shows the boy there that night then makes the police/government look like fools but im not sure there is a pic or if any witness"s will be brave enough to come back but i hope they do...the police can be very frightening especially if they have already threatened young backpackers or illegal Burmese which seems to be the case..any Brits who have info may have also been told (by the FCO) not to get involved or talk on social media...didnt they(or embassy) tell that to Sean when he started blurting.

Maybe defence can contact The Nation for a source to that pic.

Lets hope some people are brave enough to do the right thing and help those 2 innocent victims of a disgusting murder by giving any info that shows the B2 may be innocent,it doesnt bring them back but will help in the real killers being under suspicion again.

[partington]

The ability to obtain a DNA profile of a semen donor from a vagina using

routine DNA profiling decreases rapidly after 24 to 36 hours following

coitus and it is usually not possible to perform a profile after 48 hours

(Saferstein, 2005)."

I am not a Dr but I was told by one that it could be impossible to plant DNA as the DNA from different sources (hair, semen, skin) will have different composant and the source can be identified.

So let's say, could the defense actually ask for the "evidence" sample to be analysed again: just to make sure it comes from semen and has not be "collected" on the B2 from the first round of tests that cleared them?

That is correct, to begin with sperm cell are haploid, meaning they have only half the chromosomes of a normal cell.

Although it is true that sperm cells are haploid, this cannot be used to identify DNA prepared from semen, because a mixture of sperm cells contains a random mixture of ALL chromosome pairs, and so the DNA preparation contains all chromosomes in equal amounts. The only way to tell if the DNA was haploid would be to make it from one sperm cell!

The way semen DNA is identified is as follows:

1. Demonstrating that the sample it was prepared from contains large amounts of alkaline phosphatase - an enzyme that is predominantly present in semen. This is an indicative test that can be done on site by adding a reagent to some of the sample and noting a colour change.

2. To confirm absolutely in the lab: microscopic examination of the collected sample shows visible spermatozoa: there are also fluorescent dyes attached to antibodies that when added to a portion of the sample on a microscope slice conclusively identify sperm head proteins by making them fluorescent.

3. DNA can be prepared from a sample in a way that only produces DNA from sperm cells. This can be done because sperm nuclei (where the DNA is) are resistant to reagents that will break open the nuclei and release DNA from normal body cells. So normal body cell nuclei can be broken first and this DNA seperated from any that is present in sperm cells present in the same sample.

This should be done because it allows preparation of DNA from sperm alone, free from contamination of DNA from the major potential source: body cells of the rape victim.

Edited December 22, 2014 by partington

[stephen terry]

The ability to obtain a DNA profile of a semen donor from a vagina using

routine DNA profiling decreases rapidly after 24 to 36 hours following

coitus and it is usually not possible to perform a profile after 48 hours

(Saferstein, 2005)."

I am not a Dr but I was told by one that it could be impossible to plant DNA as the DNA from different sources (hair, semen, skin) will have different composant and the source can be identified.

So let's say, could the defense actually ask for the "evidence" sample to be analysed again: just to make sure it comes from semen and has not be "collected" on the B2 from the first round of tests that cleared them?

I cannot see the the court permitting this because the prosecution could state that the re-submitted sample could be tampered with/contaminated. Everyone in court stifles a smirk...

I think the defence's best approach on this would be to subpoena Thailand's leading forensic pathologist to dismantle any DNA 'evidence' as being possibly contaminated from the beginning. Just to cast doubt on the collection by non-forensic pathologists, sample storage facilities, and all other process steps, could be enough to persuade the judge that the DNA evidence against the B2 is not beyond reasonable doubt - that is, if his role is to conduct a fair and transparent trial.

Good original idea, though.

[SLESQ]

Andy Hall just filed this report:

• Just finished meeting with Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo at Koh Samui prison with MWRN Vice President Aung Kyaw this morning. The guys in good health/spirits and happy to see a new and old visitor.
• Despite depositing 2 weeks ago more than enough funds for Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo to buy/assemble bedding for themselves as they said the hard floor in their cell made it difficult to sleep, the guys not purchased any bedding yet.
• Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo said to me that they are confident to be released verysoon so they didn't want to waste the 2000 baht money we deposited.
• Today asked/ordered them to buy again the bedding for their short term comfort anyway as was donated to them and I said it wouldn't be wasted as they could donate to another prisoner when they manage to leave the prison anyway. Will check up on this...
• The guys were both very happy to read messages/letters of encouragement we showed them during the visit and asked me to deposit [messages/letters of encouragement] through the prison for them to read inside in more detail.
• Unfortunately prison authorities now refused today to pass on the letters to the boys as before they always did, citing new orders and the prison staff said they will only accept letters or messages via official mail channels.
• The guys both asked us if they would be released on Friday after the court hearing or very soon as they really want to go home back to Myanmar now and be with their families. We told them the court process will surely take time.

We all (most at least) can agree this is heart-breaking.

We need witnesses to come forward who have direct and relevant information that will lead to the exoneration of these two innocent lads.

It seems that as the Kingdome of Thailand and the world rise both to defend the lads and oppose their harsh treatment by the State, the corrupt who hold their bodies will increase the lads' discomfort in an effort to break their spirits.

This new restriction on emotional support is a signal the nation and the world must rise our collective voices louder, but not harsher, to proclaim this treatment will no longer be tolerated. We will dig in for the long haul until the State releases them to go home... alive!

Please give generously to their defense fund. No one is giving up to save their lives; thank you all for your support. “The MWRN Koh Tao case accused fair trial defense fund” is where donations are made.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Jai Dee
Edited font to normal size - no edit of content.

[evadgib]

Having read the above it's worth remembering that the real victims are the ones who lost their lives and their families who will never get over it.

[stephen terry]

Having read the above it's worth remembering that the real victims are the ones who lost their lives and their families who will never get over it.

If innocent people are also convicted they will be real victims as well, and their families will never get over it. Which is why the majority of posters on this site are seeking truth and justice, especially as real killers could be free to murder more victims.

[BritTim]

I found this interesting. It gives some new insight into the progress being made by the defense to line up witnesses to testify on the B2's behalf:

http://www.elevenmyanmar.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8443

All indications are that Myanmar really is going to do its utmost to try to ensure a fair trial.

[jimmybkk]

I cannot see the the court permitting this because the prosecution could state that the re-submitted sample could be tampered with/contaminated. Everyone in court stifles a smirk...

I think the defence's best approach on this would be to subpoena Thailand's leading forensic pathologist to dismantle any DNA 'evidence' as being possibly contaminated from the beginning. Just to cast doubt on the collection by non-forensic pathologists, sample storage facilities, and all other process steps, could be enough to persuade the judge that the DNA evidence against the B2 is not beyond reasonable doubt - that is, if his role is to conduct a fair and transparent trial.

Good original idea, though.

I couldn't agree more, and I suggested the same in a previous post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/785531-myanmar-embassy-seeking-defence-witnesses-for-koh-tao-accused/page-2 Post # 34.

Surely the only defense here is to destroy the credibility of the DNA evidence and hopefully have it deemed inadmissible based on the way the evidence was collected, and by whom it was collected. I believe that no-one is contesting that the 2 Burmese guys were in the vicinity of the murders that night, so no doubt the prosecution will present witnesses confirming this, but without any DNA evidence how could they prove there was any physical contact between the 2 Burmese lads and the deceased. Unless of course the prosecution have managed to find some "eyewitnesses" to the guys actually committing the murder... (Gulp!)

The guy who says he is acting as a consultant to the defense team posted that: "Actual murderers, who are the sons and daughters of the political elite, never go to trial." Post # 46 in the above link

With this in mind, I wonder why the defense is focusing on looking for witnesses. If, as seems to be the consensus, any genuine eyewitness would be saying that it was the untouchables that did it, could this not work against the defendants by placing the judge in a difficult position? How could he give a non-guilty verdict based on witness testimony that "other people" were the real perpetrators and then no decision to arrest and charge the "other people" be forthcoming?

In the unlikely event that the judge has not already been suitably well "looked after" and has not already made up his mind, the defense need to smarten up and leave a door open for the judge to walk through if he goes with a not guilty verdict. I think the Burmese lads had the right idea when they said they believed that the real murderer(s) had already left the country. Surely there is no benefit in pointing the finger at persons of influence.

[AleG]

I cannot see the the court permitting this because the prosecution could state that the re-submitted sample could be tampered with/contaminated. Everyone in court stifles a smirk...

I think the defence's best approach on this would be to subpoena Thailand's leading forensic pathologist to dismantle any DNA 'evidence' as being possibly contaminated from the beginning. Just to cast doubt on the collection by non-forensic pathologists, sample storage facilities, and all other process steps, could be enough to persuade the judge that the DNA evidence against the B2 is not beyond reasonable doubt - that is, if his role is to conduct a fair and transparent trial.

Good original idea, though.

I couldn't agree more, and I suggested the same in a previous post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/785531-myanmar-embassy-seeking-defence-witnesses-for-koh-tao-accused/page-2 Post # 34.

Surely the only defense here is to destroy the credibility of the DNA evidence and hopefully have it deemed inadmissible based on the way the evidence was collected, and by whom it was collected. I believe that no-one is contesting that the 2 Burmese guys were in the vicinity of the murders that night, so no doubt the prosecution will present witnesses confirming this, but without any DNA evidence how could they prove there was any physical contact between the 2 Burmese lads and the deceased. Unless of course the prosecution have managed to find some "eyewitnesses" to the guys actually committing the murder... (Gulp!)

The guy who says he is acting as a consultant to the defense team posted that: "Actual murderers, who are the sons and daughters of the political elite, never go to trial." Post # 46 in the above link

With this in mind, I wonder why the defense is focusing on looking for witnesses. If, as seems to be the consensus, any genuine eyewitness would be saying that it was the untouchables that did it, could this not work against the defendants by placing the judge in a difficult position? How could he give a non-guilty verdict based on witness testimony that "other people" were the real perpetrators and then no decision to arrest and charge the "other people" be forthcoming?

In the unlikely event that the judge has not already been suitably well "looked after" and has not already made up his mind, the defense need to smarten up and leave a door open for the judge to walk through if he goes with a not guilty verdict. I think the Burmese lads had the right idea when they said they believed that the real murderer(s) had already left the country. Surely there is no benefit in pointing the finger at persons of influence.

The answer to your question, regarding the statements from the defense, is that they are pushing people's buttons to get donations for the cause.

They go as far as claiming that the defendants could be executed before next year, which is both not true and manipulative.

In any case it's a very CYA statement: "Actual murderers, who are the sons and daughters of the political elite, never go to trial." They are not saying that those sons and daughters, which they don't name, actually were responsible for the Koh Tao murders, it's a general statement, a dose of FUD.

[changnaam]

Interesting theory Jimmy, but my opinion, and again only an opinion is that the anger was directed at Hannah because she turned someone down in public who is never turned down. That person lost a huge amount of face, and this was the retribution to show that this person will not tolerate such behavior, and they are above the law.

Also a possibility changnaam, but I just think that the anger and rage that was evident perhaps required something more than just being turned down. I mean if you consider the elements of her murder on a scale of 1 to 4, I would say 1 = rape, 2 = rape + murder, 3 = rape + brutal murder, and 4 = rape + brutal murder + crime scene staging. Bearing in mind that she had only arrived on the island a couple of days before she was killed I would be surprised if enough emotional attachment had occurred that the killer decided that her "crime" of rejecting him warranted a straight number 4 sentence.

I apologize if my description of the crime was too graphic for some people, but please believe I intentionally fell short of what the crime scene photos reveal. I do think, however, that people need to understand just how horrific this crime was. This was not a case of "I never meant to kill her... I just put a pillow over her face to keep her quiet... and when I took the pillow away she was already dead..." Please do not place this killing in that category. This killing should be placed in the same category as the killings of some of the worst serial killers this world has seen.

My heart bleeds for the parents of David and Hannah, and to them I offer my deepest and most sincere condolences. But my blood is also boiling at some people who are attempting to convince the world at large that the killers have been brought to justice and the island of Koh Tao is now safe, when in fact I think there is a very good possibility that this psychopath is still on the island, and it is for that reason that I keep posting here.

Personally I would not let my daughter go anywhere near that island right now and the guilty verdict on these 2 Burmese lads will not change that fact at all, and anyone who is protecting the identity of the real killer deserves to rot in hell for placing at risk someone else's son or daughter.

Jimmy, we are both on the same page in terms of sentiment and outrage, not only at the murder but what has followed. I just cannot buy the gay theory, after seeing cctv footage and hearing early rumors of an argument in a certain bar, it just does not ring true somehow.

The perpetrators would all need to be emotionally involved, and an instruction / request from an outsider would not create the same motivation for them, that upholding the face of their boss would......IMHO

[IslandLover]

Eirene, on 22 Dec 2014 - 05:54, said:Eirene, on 22 Dec 2014 - 05:54, said:

I wonder if this British tourist is one of the witnesses for the defence? Anyone read a followup to this story?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/opinion/What-about-bar-manager-accused-of-harassing-victim-30246806.html

Edit: Perhaps this is a messed up version of the Sean McAnna story.

There hasn't been a follow-up to this story as far as I know, apart from it being repeated several times in the international press. Appeals have been made for the alleged photo taken in the AC bar on the night of the murders but as far as I know it hasn't turned up.

Perhaps this is a messed up version of the Sean McAnna story

I'm beginning to wonder that myself, but in a different way. It is curious that it was reported Sean didn't use his own phone to post the photo and fb message when he was holed up in the minimart being threatened by Mon and the "Big Ears" cop. Instead he allegedly used the phone of the girl behind the counter. Had Sean lost his phone? Had it been stolen? I seen to remember seeing a photo, right at the beginning of the investigation, of a number of phones being displayed by the RTP, one of which had a Ducati logo (on the screen?) just like the one on Sean's chest. If it was Sean who took the photo of Hannah being harassed in the AC bar on the night of the murders, then it will be long gone, I'm afraid.

Edited December 22, 2014 by IslandLover

[IslandLover]

JOC, on 22 Dec 2014 - 06:05, said:JOC, on 22 Dec 2014 - 06:05, said:JOC, on 22 Dec 2014 - 06:05, said:JOC, on 22 Dec 2014 - 06:05, said:

changnaam, on 21 Dec 2014 - 15:49, said:changnaam, on 21 Dec 2014 - 15:49, said:changnaam, on 21 Dec 2014 - 15:49, said:changnaam, on 21 Dec 2014 - 15:49, said:

Interesting theory Jimmy, but my opinion, and again only an opinion is that the anger was directed at Hannah because she turned someone down in public who is never turned down. That person lost a huge amount of face, and this was the retribution to show that this person will not tolerate such behavior, and they are above the law.

Don't know why, but the name Nomsod popped up in my head!!

After thinking about Jimmybkk's theory, it jogged my memory about something. I remember reading that the Headman has two sons, Warot (Nomsod) and another one who was described as being rather "feminine" (if you get my meaning). I've not read anything further about this other son though. Allegations were also made about another cop (not Big Ears) on the island in this same context.

Edited December 22, 2014 by IslandLover

[SLESQ]

Thank you all for continuing your open discussion.

I will not comment on specific points but to say (1) in general this open debate is welcome and refreshing, and (2) based on the investigations to date and continuing, we firmly believe in our client's innocence.

While some folks have speculated otherwise and we cannot know their motives for such negative speculation, we also support their right to comment. We feel neither need nor obligation to respond.

Met Police Report from Andy Hall

IMPORTANT DOCUMENT RELEASE

The Koh Tao murder case accused’s defence team has been working closely with REPRIEVE in the United Kingdom to explore the UK police role in the investigation of the Koh Tao murder case. I have now been given permission by REPRIEVE, REPRIEVE lawyers and Mr. Nakhon Chompuchat, head lawyer for the Koh Tao case defence team, to release the Metropolitan Police response document publicly.

In summary from this document:

- The UK Metropolitan police did not conduct any investigations into the Koh Tao murders in Thailand, had observer status only and did not provide any advice or assistance;

- The Metropolitan Police did not during its visit to Thailand take possession of any evidence, including physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits, interviews or statements;

- The police are preparing a report but this is for internal use only and will not be completed until January 2015 - it will not be shared with the Thai authorities;

- No other information will be shared with the Thai authorities by the UK government or police without an assurance regarding the death penalty;

- The UK police do hold some limited information on the case but rely on an exemption under the Data Protection Act to refuse to provide this information (because it would prejudice a criminal prosecution).

This response leaves some major questions unanswered, including the issue of the validity of statements issued by the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office on behalf of the parents of the deceased.

For other questions and discussions on this issue/response, the lawyers team welcome public debate that will hopefully result from release of this document in full.

[greenchair]

10846384_10205709046393824_4992774214714826275_n.jpg

Thank you for responding timely; now please also write to others about our need. Please send this note to all your correspondents, post it on all your social network sites, and help others to know when they dig into their wallets, again and again, and if we can attract a benefactor even one who sets up a matching funds grant, we may have a chance.

The Myanmar government's offer to help is fantastic! But we need more.

MWRN Koh Tao case accused fair trial defense fund (online/bank) reaches 500,000 Baht (US$15,200). Thanks all donors. The link has been removed due to TVF rules but you can find it with a Google search, where you can also find the latest information on MWRN spending and case assistance updates.

I am being very modest here, because mounting a defense to any litigation is costly. The costs are the greatest as here where the penalty is the death of two innocent, hard-working lads. The money is not for lawyers as we are all donating our time and effort for free. We need at least $10 or $25 or $100 or greater donations from everyone to pay defense costs that for the most part are:

1. Air travel (many trips) from Bangkok to and from the island for the defense team (lead lawyer, human rights proponent, and Burmese assistants as interpreters) to attend court and meet with witnesses; coach fare @ THB 5,000 one way;

2. Modest lodging, meals and transport while on the island,

3. Costs for key fact witnesses to travel to Bangkok to meet with the defense team, and/or for the defense team to travel to them;

4. Expert witnesses must have their costs paid. Some may insist on a fee that if we dont have we will lose their help.

5. We may find the court agrees with us and grants the defense the opportunity to put on a real defense and get testimony from witnesses who have fled. That will keep our trial cost needs going for another six (6) months or longer and greatly increase defense costs to send members of the team to other nations, such as Australia, France, Myanmar, Spain, and the UK.

6. We want to bring the boys' 3 surviving parents from Myanmar to the trial to give the lads the emotional support they are so much in need of. They are/were their parents sole sole source of income. Now they worry more about their parents than about themselves.

Please contact any member of the defense team; ask your good questions, and then please give generously.

I've reviewed with Andy Hall who administers the defense fund, his accounting and am satisfied that he is careful and frugal, and using the fund only for the defense of these kids. The site offers donors an opportunity to also support Andys office, but you dont need to if you dont want to. I hope you will. Thank you.

http://www.elevenmyanmar.com/index.php

The Myanmar government has agreed to provide security and expenses in Thailand for the main defence witnesses of the accused Myanmar migrant workers in the Koh Tao murder case, said the embassy investigation team.

The Myanmar Embassy is attempting to find possible defence witnesses for the accused Myanmar migrant workers in Kao Tao murder case,. http://www.elevenmyanmar.com/index.php

Thank goodness these 2 boys have got people looking out for them. At the end of the day, they are only 21 years old.

[SLESQ]

"Actual murderers, who are the sons and daughters of the political elite, never go to trial." Post # 46 above

While I will not comment on defense tactics or strategy, nor publicly respond to questions put to me publicly, I now clarify the misunderstanding about the quote from my post:

While many here closely follow local Thai news, some clearly do not. This murder case is not an isolated event but the smallest tip of a huge and lumbering ice berg of police corruption and inaction. A few examples:

In September 2012 the son and heir to an energy drink Thai tycoon, speeding on a city street in his silver Ferrari crashed into and killed a police officer on motorcycle patrol. Police followed him to his home and were paid to keep silent. While other police investigated, I am not aware that he has not ever been prosecuted.

In December 2010, a 16-year-old girl without skill or training to drive, driving a mid-sized Japanese car without a license collided with a passenger van that spun out of control killing nine people. The girl who caused the crash came from a privileged family and received only a two-year suspended sentence.

In 2001 the 20-something son of a rich and powerful Thai politician murdered a police officer. Right after the incident, the son was given shelter by a General, and then the son deserted the Army. It was widely reported that the son fled to neighboring nations until the son was assured it was safe to return to Thailand. In 2003 he was acquitted as the court considered the evidence insufficient - even though there were many eyewitnesses to the crime!

It is a documented, well known, and open farce that “Thai police often make someone a scapegoat.” The issue of "double standards" for the wealthy and privileged is highly politically charged in Thailand. Many Thais argue that the courts sell justice to the highest bidder, and the tattered reputation of Thailand's judiciary has sunk even lower in recent years due to several clumsy political interventions by the courts. But the prospects for things to improve appear dim. http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/05/13681524-car-crash-politics-laws-dont-touch-rich-in-thailand?lite

[greenchair]

10846384_10205709046393824_4992774214714826275_n.jpg

Thank you all for continuing your open discussion.

I will not comment on specific points but to say (1) in general this open debate is welcome and refreshing, and (2) based on the investigations to date and continuing, we firmly believe in our client's innocence.

While some folks have speculated otherwise and we cannot know their motives for such negative speculation, we also support their right to comment. We feel neither need nor obligation to respond.

Met Police Report from Andy Hall

IMPORTANT DOCUMENT RELEASE

The Koh Tao murder case accuseds defence team has been working closely with REPRIEVE in the United Kingdom to explore the UK police role in the investigation of the Koh Tao murder case. I have now been given permission by REPRIEVE, REPRIEVE lawyers and Mr. Nakhon Chompuchat, head lawyer for the Koh Tao case defence team, to release the Metropolitan Police response document publicly.

In summary from this document:

- The UK Metropolitan police did not conduct any investigations into the Koh Tao murders in Thailand, had observer status only and did not provide any advice or assistance;

- The Metropolitan Police did not during its visit to Thailand take possession of any evidence, including physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits, interviews or statements;

- The police are preparing a report but this is for internal use only and will not be completed until January 2015 - it will not be shared with the Thai authorities;

- No other information will be shared with the Thai authorities by the UK government or police without an assurance regarding the death penalty;

- The UK police do hold some limited information on the case but rely on an exemption under the Data Protection Act to refuse to provide this information (because it would prejudice a criminal prosecution).

This response leaves some major questions unanswered, including the issue of the validity of statements issued by the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office on behalf of the parents of the deceased.

For other questions and discussions on this issue/response, the lawyers team welcome public debate that will hopefully result from release of this document in full.

I read an article that said, though the British police could not release anything. Anybody can write to the coroner and ask for a report. The article said, it would be up to the coroner if the report was relevant to the party asking. Also there is no reason the boys dna could not be sent to the coroner. Something might come of it. Must try everything.

[greenchair]

I don't think the coroner is bound to the data protection act.

[greenchair]

10846384_10205709046393824_4992774214714826275_n.jpg

Thank you all for continuing your open discussion.

I will not comment on specific points but to say (1) in general this open debate is welcome and refreshing, and (2) based on the investigations to date and continuing, we firmly believe in our client's innocence.

While some folks have speculated otherwise and we cannot know their motives for such negative speculation, we also support their right to comment. We feel neither need nor obligation to respond.

Met Police Report from Andy Hall

IMPORTANT DOCUMENT RELEASE

The Koh Tao murder case accuseds defence team has been working closely with REPRIEVE in the United Kingdom to explore the UK police role in the investigation of the Koh Tao murder case. I have now been given permission by REPRIEVE, REPRIEVE lawyers and Mr. Nakhon Chompuchat, head lawyer for the Koh Tao case defence team, to release the Metropolitan Police response document publicly.

In summary from this document:

- The UK Metropolitan police did not conduct any investigations into the Koh Tao murders in Thailand, had observer status only and did not provide any advice or assistance;

- The Metropolitan Police did not during its visit to Thailand take possession of any evidence, including physical evidence, forensic evidence, exhibits, interviews or statements;

- The police are preparing a report but this is for internal use only and will not be completed until January 2015 - it will not be shared with the Thai authorities;

- No other information will be shared with the Thai authorities by the UK government or police without an assurance regarding the death penalty;

- The UK police do hold some limited information on the case but rely on an exemption under the Data Protection Act to refuse to provide this information (because it would prejudice a criminal prosecution).

This response leaves some major questions unanswered, including the issue of the validity of statements issued by the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office on behalf of the parents of the deceased.

For other questions and discussions on this issue/response, the lawyers team welcome public debate that will hopefully result from release of this document in full.

Would a petition help.

[falangjim]

10846384_10205709046393824_4992774214714826275_n.jpg

Andy Hall just filed this report:

• Just finished meeting with Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo at Koh Samui prison with MWRN Vice President Aung Kyaw this morning. The guys in good health/spirits and happy to see a new and old visitor.
• Despite depositing 2 weeks ago more than enough funds for Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo to buy/assemble bedding for themselves as they said the hard floor in their cell made it difficult to sleep, the guys not purchased any bedding yet.
• Zaw Lin/Wei Phyo said to me that they are confident to be released verysoon so they didn't want to waste the 2000 baht money we deposited.
• Today asked/ordered them to buy again the bedding for their short term comfort anyway as was donated to them and I said it wouldn't be wasted as they could donate to another prisoner when they manage to leave the prison anyway. Will check up on this...
• The guys were both very happy to read messages/letters of encouragement we showed them during the visit and asked me to deposit [messages/letters of encouragement] through the prison for them to read inside in more detail.
• Unfortunately prison authorities now refused today to pass on the letters to the boys as before they always did, citing new orders and the prison staff said they will only accept letters or messages via official mail channels.
• The guys both asked us if they would be released on Friday after the court hearing or very soon as they really want to go home back to Myanmar now and be with their families. We told them the court process will surely take time.

We all (most at least) can agree this is heart-breaking.

We need witnesses to come forward who have direct and relevant information that will lead to the exoneration of these two innocent lads.

It seems that as the Kingdome of Thailand and the world rise both to defend the lads and oppose their harsh treatment by the State, the corrupt who hold their bodies will increase the lads' discomfort in an effort to break their spirits.

This new restriction on emotional support is a signal the nation and the world must rise our collective voices louder, but not harsher, to proclaim this treatment will no longer be tolerated. We will dig in for the long haul until the State releases them to go home... alive!

Please give generously to their defense fund. No one is giving up to save their lives; thank you all for your support. “The MWRN Koh Tao case accused fair trial defense fund” is where donations are made.

Here is my official message to the guards at the Koh Samui prison who are denying Win and Zaw letters.

I'm holding up both my middle fingers! ..I.. ..I..

Edited December 22, 2014 by falangjim