Israelis In Chiang Mai

[Thaiquila]

I continue to believe alot of this tolerance for the No Israeli signs is old fashioned stereotyping and anti-semitism.

I wonder why you continue to believe that, in the face of all the evidence to the contrary that has been presented here. Seems to me like an entrenched bias at work.

Because of repeated expressions of anti-Jewish stereotypes (mostly the money kind of stereotypes).

If a Jew is thrifty, he is a cheap Jew. If a Brit is, he is just a cheap individual. Get it?

[Loaded]

Lets get this clear again. Israelis are mostly Jewish people. Israel is a Jewish state. Jewishness is more than about religion. Most Israelis and most world Jews are NOT religious, but they are still Jewish. If you wish to ban Israelis, you wish to ban Jews.

It's a mainly Jewish country because in 1948 with the support of the USA it round up the majority of the arab population at gun point and dumped them like pieces of junk in the deserts of Gaza and the West Bank. No UN mandate, but luckily God had said it was OK...according to them.

(Might as well blame Hitler. If there was no Hitler, there would be no Israel.)

Interesting, simplistic telling of history, but thank you for expressing your anti-Israel sentiment. I actually think Israel was a mistake, but in our current day, it is a reality, and I don't see the justification of discrimating against Jewish Israeli backpackers. I continue to believe alot of this tolerance for the No Israeli signs is old fashioned stereotyping and anti-semitism.

...so before Hitler there was no zionist movement????

Hitler was also responsible for the deaths of millions of Ukranians, Lithuanians, gypsies, gays, communists... So far none have created their own 'homeland' because of it.

[Thaiquila]

Oh I seem to feel that the pot likes to call the kettle black, but when it comes back , thats not to be???

You see, it is the Jewish Israelis who are the targets of this discrimination. They are not discriminating against the Thai guesthouse owners.

[Thaiquila]

Lets get this clear again. Israelis are mostly Jewish people. Israel is a Jewish state. Jewishness is more than about religion. Most Israelis and most world Jews are NOT religious, but they are still Jewish. If you wish to ban Israelis, you wish to ban Jews.

It's a mainly Jewish country because in 1948 with the support of the USA it round up the majority of the arab population at gun point and dumped them like pieces of junk in the deserts of Gaza and the West Bank. No UN mandate, but luckily God had said it was OK...according to them.

(Might as well blame Hitler. If there was no Hitler, there would be no Israel.)

Interesting, simplistic telling of history, but thank you for expressing your anti-Israel sentiment. I actually think Israel was a mistake, but in our current day, it is a reality, and I don't see the justification of discrimating against Jewish Israeli backpackers. I continue to believe alot of this tolerance for the No Israeli signs is old fashioned stereotyping and anti-semitism.

...so before Hitler there was no zionist movement????

Hitler was also responsible for the deaths of millions of Ukranians, Lithuanians, gypsies, gays, communists... So far none have created their own 'homeland' because of it.

I don't think we really want to go there. Suffice it say, Jews were the primary victims of Hitler along with the Russians. And yes, there was a Zionist movement. But most historians will tell you without Hilter, it wouldn't have ever happened. I already said I personally think it was a mistake. They should have moved to South Florida. But it is really too late for that now.

[Gonzo the Face]

Oh I seem to feel that the pot likes to call the kettle black, but when it comes back , thats not to be???

You see, it is the Jewish Israelis who are the targets of this discrimination. They are not discriminating against the Thai guesthouse owners.

Perhaps you misinterpreted ,,,,,, It was you, to which I was referring..

I notice you were up late last night..... and early this morning, I do hope it wasn't for worry about this topic...... but it does and has surely run up a good post count

[Thaiquila]

Oh I seem to feel that the pot likes to call the kettle black, but when it comes back , thats not to be???

You see, it is the Jewish Israelis who are the targets of this discrimination. They are not discriminating against the Thai guesthouse owners.

Perhaps you misinterpreted ,,,,,, It was you, to which I was referring..

Perhaps, so who I am racist against according to you?

BTW, I have personally witnessed obnoxious Israelis. And also obnoxious French, Germans, Aussies, Brits, Yanks, Russians, Brazialians, etc. etc,

Again, why pick on the Israelis?

[Gonzo the Face]

Oh I seem to feel that the pot likes to call the kettle black, but when it comes back , thats not to be???

You see, it is the Jewish Israelis who are the targets of this discrimination. They are not discriminating against the Thai guesthouse owners.

Perhaps you misinterpreted ,,,,,, It was you, to which I was referring..

Perhaps, so who I am racist against according to you?

BTW, I have personally witnessed obnoxious Israelis. And also obnoxious French, Germans, Aussies, Brits, Yanks, Russians, Brazialians, etc. etc,

Again, why pick on the Israelis?

Thaiquila, Isn't it a waste of time repeating over and over and over to you when you ask a question and then cannot accept the answer????

"Israeli" is the word , that to the Thai Business people who do put up these signs, most describes the people that they do not want in their establishment. They could have put up a sign that said, "NO sh84878 people" but that would not be recognized by the people they wish to keep out.

It was not meant racially, religiously or in any other vain other than to keep out the people they feel cause too much harm to their business.

[Rasseru]

I continue to believe alot of this tolerance for the No Israeli signs is old fashioned stereotyping and anti-semitism.

I wonder why you continue to believe that, in the face of all the evidence to the contrary that has been presented here. Seems to me like an entrenched bias at work.

Because of repeated expressions of anti-Jewish stereotypes (mostly the money kind of stereotypes).

If a Jew is thrifty, he is a cheap Jew. If a Brit is, he is just a cheap individual. Get it?

I went back and reviewed a good part of the earlier posts, and I could find no use of expressions of anti-Jewish stereotypes, other than your accusations of anti-Semitism. Maybe there is something somewhere I missed, but I am left with an even stronger impression that an entrenched bias is at work in your reading of people's comments.

[Thaiquila]

Then you didn't look hard enough.

What are sh84878 people?

A good point that this is a waste of time. I have had my say, the folks who "understand" bigotry have had their say, so I guess if there aren't any more really original ideas about this, I will take my leave. Ciao.

[Beavis and Butthead]

I think it's a confrontation thing. Thais like to avoid confrontation while Israelis are tough cookies who will entangle anyone to get what they want and what they feel they should have. I think this rubbed some of the Thais the wrong way over the years and thus the signs. The Thais way of avoiding confrontation

[cm das]

I don't want to argue history or point out how wrong anybody is, just inject my own experience into the discussion. I come from a non-observant Jewish family (in the USA). Since growing up, I have become Buddhist, my brother & sister have become liberal but observant Jews, my dad remains non-observant & my mom converted to Christianity (Episcopalian). OK, it's an odd family. But I mention this to point out that I am not anti-semitic & in fact I suffered from discrimination & abuse regularly as a child. And now to the point - there is 1 guest house on khao san rd. that i stopped patronizing years ago. Why? The first time I was there it was ok - clean, cheap & quiet. But on the next 2 or 3 visits I could hardly sleep because of large, loud, drunk groups of young israelis. So, the owner of the guest house lost my repeat business because of their behavior.

[Loaded]

Did anyone stay at Paradise Guesthouse in Chiang Mai while it was open?

Very Israeli friendy: signs in Hebrew, kosher food on the menu. I stayed there 3 months when I first arrived. The reception was 4 floors and many corridors away from my room but I could often hear the abuse directed at the Thai staff. I know a little Hebrew so when I heard 'bensonar' (son of a whore), 'lakis dianne' (F### off) I know what was being said. The Israelis often partied to 1 or 2 in the morning (not a problem for me as we're all young people on an adventure) BUT at 6 the following morning when a Thai guide would knock on the doors of people going trekking, it was only the Israelis who shouted at them to be quiet. Haggling over the price of water... and always with an aggresive and disrespectful manner.

[Rasseru]

I don't want to argue history or point out how wrong anybody is, just inject my own experience into the discussion. I come from a non-observant Jewish family (in the USA). Since growing up, I have become Buddhist, my brother & sister have become liberal but observant Jews, my dad remains non-observant & my mom converted to Christianity (Episcopalian). OK, it's an odd family. But I mention this to point out that I am not anti-semitic & in fact I suffered from discrimination & abuse regularly as a child. And now to the point - there is 1 guest house on khao san rd. that i stopped patronizing years ago. Why? The first time I was there it was ok - clean, cheap & quiet. But on the next 2 or 3 visits I could hardly sleep because of large, loud, drunk groups of young israelis. So, the owner of the guest house lost my repeat business because of their behavior.

And a lovely injection it was, amusing, interesting, touching, on-point and Buddhistically open-ended. all at once! Cheers for that. Too bad Thaiquila ciaoed off before he could bite this one. I would have thoroughly enjoyed watching him decide that you, too, unlikely and implausible as it might seem, are in fact an anti-semite!

[lannarebirth]

I continue to believe alot of this tolerance for the No Israeli signs is old fashioned stereotyping and anti-semitism.

I wonder why you continue to believe that, in the face of all the evidence to the contrary that has been presented here. Seems to me like an entrenched bias at work.

Because of repeated expressions of anti-Jewish stereotypes (mostly the money kind of stereotypes).

If a Jew is thrifty, he is a cheap Jew. If a Brit is, he is just a cheap individual. Get it?

No, I don't get it? If their intent were to ban Jews, than I imagine the sign would say "No Jews". If they were consciously anti-semitic, why on earth would they want to exclude the rest of the worlds Jews? Get it?

Also, you've misread my sympaties wiyh regard to this matter. I don't like to see bigotry anywhere. It diminishes everyone. Prejudice too, is often rooted in fallacies, myths and negative traditions. Discrimination on the other hand, is what each of us practice evry day as we go about our business, bearing in mind those deeds, persons and practices that have been harmful to ourselves or our businesses in the past. Hopefully, our discrimination keeps us from repeating past mistakes.

That said, I STILL don't like the idea of these signs, but I've never walked a mile in the shoes of those who display them.

[Charma]

I don't want to argue history or point out how wrong anybody is, just inject my own experience into the discussion. I come from a non-observant Jewish family (in the USA). Since growing up, I have become Buddhist, my brother & sister have become liberal but observant Jews, my dad remains non-observant & my mom converted to Christianity (Episcopalian). OK, it's an odd family. But I mention this to point out that I am not anti-semitic & in fact I suffered from discrimination & abuse regularly as a child. And now to the point - there is 1 guest house on khao san rd. that i stopped patronizing years ago. Why? The first time I was there it was ok - clean, cheap & quiet. But on the next 2 or 3 visits I could hardly sleep because of large, loud, drunk groups of young israelis. So, the owner of the guest house lost my repeat business because of their behavior.

And a lovely injection it was, amusing, interesting, touching, on-point and Buddhistically open-ended. all at once! Cheers for that. Too bad Thaiquila ciaoed off before he could bite this one. I would have thoroughly enjoyed watching him decide that you, too, unlikely and implausible as it might seem, are in fact an anti-semite!

Yes, a very nice post. It is also another post that follows the "understanding" of the problems and reasons for the sign, without being brave enough to state a position on it. History shows us that discrimination flourishes and escalates, not because of the individuals who are the most actively engaged in it, but because of the majority who stand by and allow it to happen. Regardless of the reasons for such signs being put up (although I do think they are being rather overstated here), I would always refuse to accept that they can ever be justified.

The behaviour described here can be attributed to many nationalities. If such signs were allowed in Europe, the Brits would have been banned from most of the mediterranean resorts years ago.

They are not allowed there, because, as a civilised group of nations, human rights are a cornerstone of the value system. Thailand can choose to be different, but if it really wants to play as part in the modern world as a free and forward thinking democracy, it will have to compromise.

[Rasseru]

[such signs] are not allowed [in Europe], because, as a civilised group of nations, human rights are a cornerstone of the value system. Thailand can choose to be different, but if it really wants to play as part in the modern world as a free and forward thinking democracy, it will have to compromise.

Wise of you, for the sake of your credibility on this point, not to include the United States in your list.

[Charma]

[such signs] are not allowed [in Europe], because, as a civilised group of nations, human rights are a cornerstone of the value system. Thailand can choose to be different, but if it really wants to play as part in the modern world as a free and forward thinking democracy, it will have to compromise.

Wise of you, for the sake of your credibility on this point, not to include the United States in your list.

It wasn't really a list, but I am willing to risk my credibility and say that the US have civil rights laws too! If someone put this sign up in th states, there would be a riot (except maybe Tennessee!)

[sbk]

I guess the ones who miss the point are the ones who've never backpacked.

Israelis have a reputation that has been earned. Yes, there are troublemakers from every country and every culture but there seems to be a much larger percentage of ones who come from Israel. If it was the majority of backpackers coming from Germany who behaved this way then there would be signs "No Germans".

I think the idea that this is all anti-semitic is such a load of crap as most Thais don't even give a hoot about what religion or ethnic background people are as long as they don't make trouble.

I think a few of us have made this point over and over and a few refuse to see it. Stay at a backpacker guesthouse that caters to Israelis for just a few days and then come back and we'll see if you have the same attitude

[Rasseru]

[such signs] are not allowed [in Europe], because, as a civilised group of nations, human rights are a cornerstone of the value system. Thailand can choose to be different, but if it really wants to play as part in the modern world as a free and forward thinking democracy, it will have to compromise.

Wise of you, for the sake of your credibility on this point, not to include the United States in your list.

It wasn't really a list, but I am willing to risk my credibility and say that the US have civil rights laws too! If someone put this sign up in th states, there would be a riot (except maybe Tennessee!)

My point was not about the technicality of the existence or absence of civil rights laws, but rather that, if the commitment of the U.S. to human rights is included in any standard of what it takes for Thailand "to play a part in the modern world as a free and forward thinking democracy", Thailand need not worry about the door being closed to it on that basis.

[lannarebirth]

[such signs] are not allowed [in Europe], because, as a civilised group of nations, human rights are a cornerstone of the value system. Thailand can choose to be different, but if it really wants to play as part in the modern world as a free and forward thinking democracy, it will have to compromise.

Wise of you, for the sake of your credibility on this point, not to include the United States in your list.

It wasn't really a list, but I am willing to risk my credibility and say that the US have civil rights laws too! If someone put this sign up in th states, there would be a riot (except maybe Tennessee!)

My point was not about the technicality of the existence or absence of civil rights laws, but rather that, if the commitment of the U.S. to human rights is included in any standard of what it takes for Thailand "to play a part in the modern world as a free and forward thinking democracy", Thailand need not worry about the door being closed to it on that basis.

I suppose if the discrimination became bad enough the US would impose civil rights law adherence on Thailand, just as it did in Europe. Your contention that Europe was or is an egalitarian culture is laughable.

Apologies for the off topic response but what could I do?

[sbk]

[such signs] are not allowed [in Europe], because, as a civilised group of nations, human rights are a cornerstone of the value system. Thailand can choose to be different, but if it really wants to play as part in the modern world as a free and forward thinking democracy, it will have to compromise.

Wise of you, for the sake of your credibility on this point, not to include the United States in your list.

It wasn't really a list, but I am willing to risk my credibility and say that the US have civil rights laws too! If someone put this sign up in th states, there would be a riot (except maybe Tennessee!)

My point was not about the technicality of the existence or absence of civil rights laws, but rather that, if the commitment of the U.S. to human rights is included in any standard of what it takes for Thailand "to play a part in the modern world as a free and forward thinking democracy", Thailand need not worry about the door being closed to it on that basis.

I suppose if the discrimination became bad enough the US would impose civil rights law adherence on Thailand, just as it did in Europe. Your contention that Europe was or is an egalitarian culture is laughable.

Apologies for the off topic response but what could I do?

I know I know and we will not once again get into the US and whats wrong with it, Europe and whats wrong with it etc .

Back to the topic at hand please.

Which is, also, I might add, more about what would motivate a business owner to reject a certain portion of his or her potential clientele rather than about the history of anti-semitism in Europe.

Thanks

[Rasseru]

Your contention that Europe was or is an egalitarian culture is laughable.

Perhaps it would have been if I had made such a contention, but I did not.

Apologies for the off topic response but what could I do?

Exactly what you did!

[Ricardo]

My wife tells me that, in her video-bar days, she once had a table-full of Israelis who sat throughout an entire film, ordering just one bottle of water between them, then left without leaving a tip.

In their defence - the exchange-rate was very much against them, in those days, when I myself was living the backpacker-life, on a generous 200B per day.

Personaly I always try to take individuals as individuals, until they demonstrate that they conform to a national stereotype, but I can understand how a few such incidents might gain a certain reputation for a country.

[Charma]

[such signs] are not allowed [in Europe], because, as a civilised group of nations, human rights are a cornerstone of the value system. Thailand can choose to be different, but if it really wants to play as part in the modern world as a free and forward thinking democracy, it will have to compromise.

Wise of you, for the sake of your credibility on this point, not to include the United States in your list.

It wasn't really a list, but I am willing to risk my credibility and say that the US have civil rights laws too! If someone put this sign up in th states, there would be a riot (except maybe Tennessee!)

My point was not about the technicality of the existence or absence of civil rights laws, but rather that, if the commitment of the U.S. to human rights is included in any standard of what it takes for Thailand "to play a part in the modern world as a free and forward thinking democracy", Thailand need not worry about the door being closed to it on that basis.

I suppose if the discrimination became bad enough the US would impose civil rights law adherence on Thailand, just as it did in Europe. Your contention that Europe was or is an egalitarian culture is laughable.

Apologies for the off topic response but what could I do?

Well the first bit was off topic and is a can of worms I will leave closed. As for your second point, what is laughable about the factual statements I made? I merely pointed out that European countries have legislated to prevent the blatent discrimination that many here seem happy with. Such laws have been in place only in recent times, so I was not talking about Europe of the distant past. IMO a belief in equality is very much now a part of the value base in Europe, even though many find this hard to come to terms with. Yes, human rights stick in the craw. It allows terroists to claim a safe haven and hinders law enforcement. It prevents us doing all sorts of things that we feel are justified, but ultimately it is there to protect us all.

I am sure these GH owners have many counterparts in the west who would love to follow suit and ban certain groups from their premises. But equality costs. It requires tolerance and it is always a struggle to achieve a fair balance. If you simply allow bigotry and discrimination to flourish, it can lead to much worse things.

Concentrate on the behaviour and not on the group you think is responsible.

[Blinky Bill]

This topic is a load of crap. This is Thailand. The Thai people can do as they wish when it comes to who they will have in their establishments. There is no Thai law banning signs that say "No Israelis" or "No Americans" or signs that indicate double pricing. As I said earlier "My place, my rules". Surely all you wa***ers who are making so much fuss over this have someting better to do with your time. If you don't like the way things are in Thailand go and buy yourself a ticket back to wherever you came from and bugger off!!

[Ulysses G.]

Thaiquila, most Thais would be hard pressed to tell you that Israel was a country, let alone find it on a map. [most would also be hard pressed to point out Bangkok on a map. geography is not one of their strong points] They go into business like anyone else , trying to make a success not to create a failure. As a business person, they want anyone's money. So there has to be a reason to turn anyone away.

I agree with the sentiment that most Thais have no idea about Israel or Israelis; Actually, it is often difficult for me to pick them out until they ask me for an item in Hebrew.

In fact, I first started noticing anti-Israeli - no Israelis allowed - sentiment here coming from Thai women who were married to white foreigners and doing tourist-oriented business many years ago. Their husbands would tell them not to do business with Israelis - that they were too cheap - and they went along with it. They would never have come to this conclusion on their own.

All of a sudden, anyone who bargained too hard or was cheap became "Israeli" - no matter where they really came from.

When it comes to Thais, I've always thought that this hatred of Jews - I mean Israelis - was taught to them by the kind of people that keep denying that this has anything to do with religion and is all their fault and is just fine.

[sabaijai]

I personaly would not have a problem giving my custom to a bar, resturant or guest house with a "No Israeli" sign, right or wrong that sign gives me a better chance of passing my time without being disturbed by ".

Actually, it doesn't. It only reduces your chances of encountering ISRAELI loud, obnoxious "A$$holes."

Again, this tolerance for restrictions against people from the JEWISH state of Israel is enlightening. Not a big surprise, of course. Anti-semitism is still rampant in the world, especially among Europeans.

So, Pond Life, what happened in your life to contribute to your prejudice against Israelis (who just happen to be Jews)?

BTW: I expect to be flamed for saying this is anti-semitic, but I am convinced that it is. A ban on Israelis equals a ban on Jews, and what is more anti-semitic than that?

So the Israelis I know who say they refuse to travel with Israelis are anti-semites too? Strangely none of the Thai guesthouse owners I spoke to mentioned religion. Only behaviour.

[sabaijai]

I think it's a confrontation thing. Thais like to avoid confrontation while Israelis are tough cookies who will entangle anyone to get what they want and what they feel they should have. I think this rubbed some of the Thais the wrong way over the years and thus the signs. The Thais way of avoiding confrontation

That's too reasonable an argument. It can't be anything but anti-semitism.

[Ulysses G.]

So the Israelis I know who say they refuse to travel with Israelis are anti-semites too?

I grew up in Virginia and was surrounded by racists, KKK members and white's only drinking fountains in my early years. At school, we were taught in history class that the slaves cried and begged to stay on when their owners were forced to set them free.

You know what, I bet many of them did, I think that those Archie Bunkers were telling the truth as they understood it, but most African Americans did not want to be slaves and slavery was still wrong. These offensive bigoted signs are too.

[Gonzo the Face]

People never cease to amaze me.

This thread IS about a Guest House Operator.

This thread IS about how a Guest House Operator runs his business

This thread IS about a sign.

This thread is NOT about Judaism, being Jewish, or Nationality.

This thread is NOT about Israel being a Jewish State.

This thread is NOT about the persecution of any group of people.

There are posters out there who are trying to make it a group persecution thread.

Because that is the connection that comes to their mind once certain trigger words are used.

Again... This thread IS about a sign, and more specifically one word on the sign.

The word is "ISRAELI"

The paranoid group that feels persecuted, upon seeing the magic word, instantly must decide Is the magic word used positively towards me

Or

Is the magic word used negatively towards me.

If it is used positively this translates to white, good, and ok,

Or

If it is used negatively this translates to black, bad, and not ok.

It is either black or white. This group is unable to see any gray area or any other shade.

Now lets get back to the sign and the magic word.

The Thai business operator , just like any other business owner in the world, wants to make money. They, in the Thai mind, want to run a good and successful business. As many have said, Thai's do not like confrontation, and do in fact shy away from confrontation as much as possible. Experience gained over time has shown them that a group of people, historically [over the life of their business experience] give them confrontation, dilemma and problems. Accepting them as customers proves to be costly for the business owner.

He has to make a decision. Does he keep accepting these business undesirable customers or does he do something to eliminate the group of people who cause him the problem.

Now maybe if he were a bit more worldly, a bit more educated and learned, he would pay someone to create a long lengthy sign [not to forget about the loss of face in having to admit that one is not able to do this on their own] in English, [the common language] that outlines the age group to be that of the problem group; the behavioral patterns that are not permitted; social attitudes, and the interrelating with other guests and staff etc.

Definitely this would be more costly and with a 99% guarantee, I would say, the Thai business owner wouldn't even think of it. I would make a guess he would try and find a word, in his limited English, to best describe the undesirable [to him] attributes that best describes the unwanted. Hence the word he has chosen.

I am sure it wasn't done out of malice, racism, or even with thought of discrimination, but rather, that doing so was a good business decision. If it weren't for the passport, I would say that he would not know Israeli, from Palestinian, from Turk, from Kurd, from Egyptian. What he does know that when this type of people come in he looses, and that he understands. It takes money away from him.

Now lets take some other things into consideration, to see how the "Ox is being gored, so to speak. "Who has a right to do what"

As some of the more vehement posters seem to be of the paranoid pro Israeli, yes its discrimination,; yes its racism; etc., type and there is only black and white. For these people the "No Israeli" sign strikes a negative chord and thus it is black, bad, no good.

Lets bring in some understandable current event "tag lines", from today's world news, that everybody seems to understand.

My rights!

"Israel has a right to defend itself, its people and its territory". Fine. Agreed.

But, also doesn't the Thai Business man have the right to defend his business, his life and family and his territory?

He is not going into someone's else's business and putting up his sign, he is on his own property erecting a sign to make a better world for himself and his family/staff. Shouldn't he have this right? To paraphrase Blinky Bill again, "its my business, these are my rules, if you don't like what or how I run my business, then go somewhere else." You also have that right.

If the place smells of cigarette smoke and the owner puts up a "No Smoking " sign, isn't he discriminating against the smoker. If a customer is sickened by the smell of smoke or if the smoker does not like the rule, they have the right to go somewhere else. Its a business rule and any "NO whatever sign will discriminate against someone for something. But doesn't the business owner have that right?

Yes, I acknowledge that the Jews feel that they have been persecuted for eons. But my question to you vehement posters, is why does everything have to be reflected as Racism, Anti-Semitic, discrimination, if it does not depict you in what you feel is a positive light. I am sure that with the limited education of the Thai Business man, he would not even know the meaning or these words.

I have the opinion that the dogmatic type approach taken by some of the posters in this thread just goes to clash with the Thai make up and demeanor. I also feel that this type of attitude is what is best described by the guest house owner by the single word "Israeli", in his sign

OMHO