Why do some people call Koh Phangan incorrectly Koh Phan "Y"ang?

[Aeiou7]

I wonder why some people (as far as I noticed mostly native English speakers) call Koh Phangan / Koh Pha Ngan incorrectly Koh Phan "Y"ang. I'm aware that the Thai letter "งั" may not be that easy to pronounce for everyone, but "ng" is definitely very far away from "y"...

Today someone in this forum even invented a new abbreviation "KPY" for Koh Phangan, most likely based on the incorrect pronunciation. :-)

Any thoughts, especially from "Koh Phan Yang sayers"?

[mopar71]

Thanks for clarifying. I was wondering what KPY meant in that other thread title.

I had always thought the usual abbreviation was KPG, right?

[Aeiou7]

I had always thought the usual abbreviation was KPG, right?

KPG is quite usual, but KPN is correct for Koh Pha Ngan

[Mole]

That's because the initial "ng" is really really hard to pronounce by nearly all speakers of European languages because this sound usually exist only in middle or at the end of words.

In additional, most people read Phangan as Pan-gan and not Pa-ngan, hence why the "pan yan" reading.

Edited December 22, 2014 by Mole

[Aeiou7]

That's because the initial "ng" is really really hard to pronounce by nearly all speakers of European languages because this sound usually exist only in middle or at the end of words.

In additional, most people read Phangan as Pan-gan and not Pa-ngan, hence why the "pan yan" reading.

Thanks, Mole.

But I'm still wondering how incorrect "Pan-Gan" can be turned into even more incorrect "Pan-Yan" or "Pan-Yang"... Where does the Y come from?

[SoiBiker]

Because not everyone speaks Thai as well as you.

[Aeiou7]

Because not everyone speaks Thai as well as you.

My Thai is limited to maybe 50 words and I probably pronounce most of them wrong, but hopefully not as wrong as Koh Pan-Yang :-)

[Tropicalevo]

It is not a sillly mistake. It is Chinese Whispers. As in the phrase 'send three and four pence, we are going to a dance'.

http://www.makingbetterdecisionsbetter.co.uk/story/241/send-three-and-fourpence-were-going-to-a-dance

When enough foreigners say Koh Pa Ngan enough times (after booze or whatever) it sounds like Ko pang yan.

[steelerian]

Same reason many people call Bangrak "Ban Rak". Plain ignorance.

[Briggsy]

This is standard backpacker pronunciation of the place.

[uptheos]

This is standard backpacker pronunciation of the place.

Backpackers usually go on travels to have a good time and couldn't give a toss about whether they're pronouncing something correctly or incorrectly, they haven't reached the anal retentive stage yet.

[BigC]

There is no correct spelling for Thai names to English it is spelt how it sounds

Then again I don't really care if someone says KPG or KPN I know what they mean and that's all that matters.

I could be really picky and brake down every Thai word to English but I ain't got the time

[BigC]

Same reason many people call Bangrak "Ban Rak". Plain ignorance.

And play Leam Bali Leam

And I once sore someone spell Lamai lamui I nearly vomited the absolute ignorance this is a bloody disgrace and I shall not stand for it. Now where's my mustache brown suite and boots I need to give a speech in Birlin

[Aeiou7]

There is no correct spelling for Thai names to English it is spelt how it sounds

Yes, I agree. The question of this topic is about the clearly wrong pronunciation of Phangan with a "y", not about any wrong spelling of it. It's like calling Bangkok "Baykok"...

[sketcher]

There is no correct spelling for Thai names to English it is spelt how it sounds

Yes, I agree. The question of this topic is about the clearly wrong pronunciation of Phangan with a "y", not about any wrong spelling of it. It's like calling Bangkok "Baykok"...

Shouldn't you be calling that khrung thep mr picky?

[thrilled]

To me I do easy.Any of Ya that don't like me typing Koh Phangan then don't read what I say.I'm not going to change.

[Aeiou7]

Shouldn't you be calling that khrung thep mr picky?

Sure, as long as it's also pronounced Krung Thep and not "Kruy Theb".

My question was about the reason for the pronunciation of a "y" instead of a "ng". Ignorance and Chinese Whispers as suggested above may be the answers...

[mopar71]

Same reason many people call Bangrak "Ban Rak". Plain ignorance.

Or they just read the signs. I've lived in Bangrak before and I've seen various signs spelling it both ways.

[jabis]

I'd suppose that in english-speaking phonology, where long vowels nor diphthongs are found before the 'ng'-diphthong ever, the difficulty to pronounce it as starting syllable come into play, and so Ngan suddenly becomes something like Nyang or Niang.

For me as a native Finnish speaker it's easy as pie, as we pronounce the words exactly as they're written - this would bring us to the legendary 'Rally-English' or 'Finglish', that usually gives our nationality away Added an example video of an older Nokia presentation using Rally-English - enjoy

[carmine]

This thread reminds me of how quiet it is on the island. Its at times like this, when tourists seem an endangered species quietly going into extinction, as the waves crash into whats left of the beaches, we can pause and focus on the little things that matter.....the pronuncian of an island! Outstanding stuff

[DaffyDuck]

I usually ask several Thai how something is properly pronounced when I first encounter it, then practice it, and maintain saying it that.

'Pattaya' is another name that seemingly is impossible for English speakers to ever get right, frequently mispronounced 'pattie-yah' or 'paid-yah' (or thereabouts), particularly by local long-term 'experts' who live there.

[carmine]

Is it correct to pronounce "fried rice"....."flied lice"?

[PoorSucker]

Same reason many people call Bangrak "Ban Rak". Plain ignorance.

Or they just love their home.

[jabis]

I usually ask several Thai how something is properly pronounced when I first encounter it, then practice it, and maintain saying it that.

'Pattaya' is another name that seemingly is impossible for English speakers to ever get right, frequently mispronounced 'pattie-yah' or 'paid-yah' (or thereabouts), particularly by local long-term 'experts' who live there.

Über funny that 'pattie-yah' one - I imagined it pronounced by a Jamaican Rastafari, cracked me up

'Phathyaa' is a funny word, because of reduplication of the th-consonant - reduplication means that a single written consonant acts as the final consonant of a syllable, and is pronounced again as the initial consonant of the following syllable.

This transforms 'Pha-thy-aa' (พั-ทย-า) into something more like 'Phat-tha-yaa' (พัด-ทะ-ยา), or more commonly seen in the form of Pattaya.

There are quite a few more funny rules in the language, so mispronunciation is more than possible for everyone

[robsamui]

Well - nobody has come up with an answer to the OPs question so I'll have to give you one.

I can't recall anyone ever saying "Ko Pan Yan" (or "Yang") until the early 2000s, when everyone new that I met had started pronouncing it with a Y - Ko Pan Yan.

In the movie The Beach, released in the year 2000, Leonardo DiCaprio continually mis-pronounces it and calls it "Ko Pan Yan".

With millions of young people hearing this, it's hardly surprising that's the way it got changed by backpackers and travelers.

R

[Aeiou7]

I can't recall anyone ever saying "Ko Pan Yan" (or "Yang") until the early 2000s, when everyone new that I met had started pronouncing it with a Y - Ko Pan Yan.

Thanks a lot, Rob, that must be it!

I'm not sure, though, if only Leonardo DiCaprio mispronounces the island's name in this movie or other actors who talk about it, too. In this case it might be the movie's director or screenwriter who is to blame that since about 2000 zillions of backpackers and other ignorant folks make themselves look like fools when talking about "Koh Phan Yan / Yang"...

Even Google knows this and brings the correct results for mispronounced search terms.

[robsamui]

I can't recall anyone ever saying "Ko Pan Yan" (or "Yang") until the early 2000s, when everyone new that I met had started pronouncing it with a Y - Ko Pan Yan.

Thanks a lot, Rob, that must be it!

I'm not sure, though, if only Leonardo DiCaprio mispronounces the island's name in this movie or other actors who talk about it, too. In this case it might be the movie's director or screenwriter who is to blame that since about 2000 zillions of backpackers and other ignorant folks make themselves look like fools when talking about "Koh Phan Yan / Yang"...

Even Google knows this and brings the correct results for mispronounced search terms.

Gotta keep in mind that every kid who was taking a gap year in the early part of the 2000s just HAD to watch The Beach - compulsory viewing!

Just how many millions of them came over here, meeting others in Khaosan Road, all of them feeling worldly and knowledgeable because they knew how to say the name of the little island next to Samui. Countless hordes of travelers met up in hostels all over the world to swap tales and plan routes - and the universal name was - "Koh Pan Yan". And it has stuck with (I'm guessing) anybody under 40!

[Rimmer]

An inflammatory post has been removed

[Boyce]

Was in Koh Phangan over Christmas , i was surprised to see how many farangs were working there , i did not like the place it was dirty in Haad Rin where i stayed.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Boyce

[samuijimmy]

Was in Koh Phangan over Christmas , i was surprised to see how many farangs were working there , i did not like the place it was dirty in Haad Rin where i stayed.

Had Rin is always dirty, ..... you should have tried west or north west beach areas, they are usually much nicer!

As for getting back to the topic, I have asked several Thai's lately to say the word .... it nearly always comes out sounding like Koh Phan-Yang! .... so not just some of us "farangs" or is that "farlangs"?

I have been trying to catch myself lately and say "Pan-gang" rather than Pan-yang !... Even before this topic came up!... it is not easy!