My Model Son

[Nikkijah]

I'll offer you my encouragement, also, Nikkijah. To add to my earlier advice I'll point out that while seeking counsel from others ofttimes you will hear a great deal of negativity. Those with similar experience or first hand knowledge of an unfavorable outcome will be the first to decry your intentions and strenuously, erroneously suggest that there can only be one eventuality resulting from such a decision. Or, that the odds are so unfavourably stacked against you that it would be sheer folly to even make the attempt.

You must understand that the experience of others has nothing to do with you. How well you can maintain focus on your desire is strictly up to you. And even then it requires more than simply desiring. You must also have belief and trust in the reality of your desire.

On the other hand, listening to the negative experiences of others has the beneficial aspect of providing you with an awareness of what possibly can go awry. This should not be meant to encourage your fears but rather assist you in fine-tuning your own expectant desired results.

Qualtrough serves up a fine example of a positive outcome. And by doing so he's sending the message that not only can you have what you want but more importantly there exists the very real possibility of joy within it. Cheers for that, qualtrough.

Just a few more comments from me.

Just out of interest, who would get the money?

Would you (a) open him a bank account or perhaps put the money in trust (after all, he's the one working) or ( keep it for yourself, giving yourself the same status as the garland vendors parents?

It is work on behalf of the parents, also. They are quite practically acting as agents, managers. They play their part and their contributions are as vital to the overall success as is the child's naturally given contribution. Each party deserves to reap a portion of the benefits.

IMHO child labor is wrong, model or not.

The use of the term "child labour" heavily suggests many negative connotations and is purposely used to amplify your personal beliefs, VanZam. There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with a child earning income. I've cut my neighbors lawns and delivered newspapers as a child. There was value within that which I would not discount. And neither can you rightly discount what potential value exists for a child entering into modeling.

If money isn't the issue here, then please explain the reason behind it. Not like he's going to consider it a good experience. I can't see any reason to do this other than your own wants.

The assumption that gives logic to your argument here is that any child couldn't possibly find joy within the experience. I believe qualtrough would beg to differ and can provide evidence that there is truth in the ability to have a joyful experience.

Since it's evident that outcomes for any endeavour can range from outrageous 'success' to catastrophic 'failure,' wanted to unwanted, then it is equally obvious that there is truth in all of it. Up to you what you choose as your 'truth.' My suggestion is that, since there is truth in everything, choose truths which are not limiting and those which offer beneficial value to you and those you love.

Nice post Tippaporn, this is the kind of response I was hoping to get from the start, keep them coming, obviously the good posts and the bad posts are informative to me, the bad ones make me more aware that there are some seriously strung out people(falang, of course) in Thailand who need somewhere to vent their fury(perhaps their classroom or retirement village is getting them down ) On the other hand the good posts make me feel more comfortable with anything that might happen in the future with regards to this subject.

I don't really have any expectations with any of these shoots we go to, like some people have mentioned, we are 1 family in a million who have taken their son or daughter to a casting and sooner or later if we don't get a call we might get more bored than frustrated or rejected so then we can just get on with the other things in our life, Nikki is going to start playschool or whatever some of you may call it, where he is going to meet lots of different people of varying intelligence, dependancy, race & religion - what a mixed up beginning that'll be for my poor boy!

I'll keep posting my progress on here and maybe some people can read through all of this before they think about trying any of it themselves - that way there's no risk of them getting ripped apart like I have been

Thanks all

[Tippaporn]

People don't always have extremely clear-cut expectations when they decide to travel down a given road, nikkijah. Sometimes only an urge to follow a particular path for no other reason than it suggests fun. Yet you can never know in advance when following an urge where it may eventually lead. Ofttimes it takes you to tangent roads which might not be possible to find yourself on had you not taken the initial road in the first place.

My point is that by following your heart you will always be led to where you want to go, even though you are not aware - nor care to ascertain - precisely where that final destination may be. But choose the paths with heart and the result will always be pleasant (and challenging, too). There's never a need to justify your choices to anyone.

Choke dee mak mak to you and your family's future and well-being.

Tip

Edited August 13, 2006 by Tippaporn

[Mossfinn]

I'll keep posting my progress on here and maybe some people can read through all of this before they think about trying any of it themselves - that way there's no risk of them getting ripped apart like I have been

Thanks all

I am pleased you have decided to continue to post future progress as I for one will be interested on how you get on.

I don't think you have been, 'torn to pieces', nikkijah, you have had considerable negative responses but have ridden the shots well and counter-punched skillfully, I feel you have recieved support as well.

Good Luck

Moss

[Alreadyinuse]

Why on earth would anyone want to turn a 17 month old kid into a freak show?

He is a kid, for God's sake, not a commodipty to sate your own vacarious pleasures.

Just give him a stable, loving, contented family up- bringing, and your pleasures will be all the greater.

This forum are probably on page 54 or something already and i dont want to go through all posts. but here are some of my views.

Yes he is a kid, he is not a commodity. You need to respect that he is a child and give and support a solid and secured childhood. However how many have not seen commercials or other advertisement on TV or newspapers and said ahhhhhhh what a beautiful baby, how sweet. I am sure some of you have.

How come you dont stand up react and complaint towards the companies that uses babies in their commercials/advertisements? Most likely there is a baby or a younger child posing as model...Is that double morals..

Now, If your pushing him into this definitely not ok, however if this is a one time gig. Whats the problem.

[mpdkorat]

I'm starting to feel really sorry for the kids that I see on the nappy bags and formular tins. They will all be having breakdowns soon. After reading this thread my kid will never be allowed to have a paper round. I'm serious about that.........

[Donz]

I bet it does more good then harm. most of the horror stories are very rare, I mean are you going to stop crossing the road because a few people get hit?

I say do it, you may get lucky and he could be a star one day, who knows

[tourleadersi]

I'm starting to feel really sorry for the kids that I see on the nappy bags and formular tins. They will all be having breakdowns soon. After reading this thread my kid will never be allowed to have a paper round. I'm serious about that.........

Its not that they will be having a breakdown soon. The point that people are making is that there is a higher chance of your child having mental health issues if you push them into a modelling career than if you don't.

Not every base jumper dies on every jump, but it is a high risk sport. Would a parent encourage their infant to be a base jumper if they new that there was a .5% cahnce that they might die?

Now that is an extreme example, but it does highlight the point. As a parent you need to assess the risks that your child is exposed to. To ignore their wellbeing is wrong, just as cotton wooling them is. The OP asked for opinions and got the usual broad spectrum.

As for your son doing a paper round, a little sensible work never hurt any child and instills the work ethic at an early age. Bring back the chimney sweeps!

[Donz]

do it, if your son become rich and famous you no doubt be looking back at this forum and laugh.

[Papa_Lazarou]

My 17 month old made THB 70,000 for two days work in Bangkok.

He is now "Pampers Baby for Malaysia and Phillipines. "

Casting call of 60 babies.

Hard work - advice, get an agent. Tons around.

He's also been in numerous magazines in Thailand. They tend to be unremunerative.

Papa Laz

ps Most replies written here are utter drivel from people making philosophical points about parenting.

Edited August 14, 2006 by Papa_Lazarou

[Nikkijah]

Well my son has had his first 'job', a 2 hour shoot for BIG-C. I'm a bit disappointed as he's been almost chopped in two

As you can see by the photo, he wasn't chained down with tape holding a smile on his face, he also wasn't caged whilst waiting for his turn, he loved it, playing with other children and as I always take lots of photos of him he was very comfortable in front of the camera...

OK, now burn me alive!

[thai_narak]

isn't it illegal for an underage to work? unless someone (modeling agent) is trying to get him 'coz he is really extraordinary for the job... as in really...

[Nikkijah]

isn't it illegal for an underage to work? unless someone (modeling agent) is trying to get him 'coz he is really extraordinary for the job... as in really...

I'm not sure what you mean, perhaps it is illegal for an 'underage' to work...

And my son is extraordinary... to me and his mummy

[rainman]

I guess there's nothing wrong with it if the kid is having fun and if all the funds earned from it are placed in an account with the kid's name. But I've seen plenty of parents saying "oh my kid makes $X per month.." and the whole family lives off it. Don't let that happen, please.

[Nikkijah]

I guess there's nothing wrong with it if the kid is having fun and if all the funds earned from it are placed in an account with the kid's name. But I've seen plenty of parents saying "oh my kid makes $X per month.." and the whole family lives off it. Don't let that happen, please.

I'll let you all in on a secret - he got B2,000 for the job!

It was just a few hours out of our normal day and we thought it'd be fun for him and it was... I spent the money on beer too Only joking!

[teejay]

Nikkijah, I've been a model for 6 years, during which I've travelled the world and met some really great (and not so great people). My gf has been modeling for over a decade and has the same views as I do about the industry. For most, it's just play, for the few of us who have been wise with our choices it can bring financial freedom at an early age. The industry as it stands in Thailand, however, is an oversupply of models (esp. in the baby category, given the changing attitudes and increasing thai/farang relationships), thus the budgets are hardly what they were say 5-10 years ago (5-10x more pay/commercial/loading, etc.)

I've seen child models, baby models, etc., being followed around by their rural moms. The industry is very urban and for a rural-thinker, rather hard to accept and harder to be accepted. If your wife isn't from BKK, she may bear the brunt of urbanite cruelty (albeit mostly behind her back). On set is very different from on the street, on set everyone is treated as an adult, and your child will be exposed to adult peer-to-peer behaviours...

My advice is let your kid be a kid, he/she probably doesn't want to sit on a set all day long, he/she probably wants to play with his/her friends and/or toys. Then school. Then summers as a model, maybe... then university, still summers as a model... and if he/she wants to go from there, so be it... but for now, my advice would be not to pursue the path you consider.

Don't let your child's mother push him/her either into being a 'dara.' Seen it too often and it's rather pathetic. Let the kid decide when he/she is capable of doing so. If you're doing it for money, I hope I never meet you or your wife in real life.... that would be pathetic (sad though, that's it's still done just about every day....)

If you're still not convinced and want to push the issue further, PM me. I've tried to be straight and civil and not let my tainted view from seeing too many country bumpkin moms trying to make a buck from their kid... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but let me ask you this: what are your (and your wive's) intentions in the matter?

edit: for a real father's experience, sonia couling's father (she is/was a rather big model here in asia) is a member on this site... i won't give out his sn, but if he chooses to pop in and say something, I'm quite sure he'd give you an earfull... and he is a reasonable and classy gent, so that should tell you a thing or two if he thinks negatively on the matter.

Edited July 3, 2007 by teejay

[mrtoad]

I guess there's nothing wrong with it if the kid is having fun and if all the funds earned from it are placed in an account with the kid's name. But I've seen plenty of parents saying "oh my kid makes $X per month.." and the whole family lives off it. Don't let that happen, please.

I'll let you all in on a secret - he got B2,000 for the job!

It was just a few hours out of our normal day and we thought it'd be fun for him and it was... I spent the money on beer too Only joking!

Good for you, I would hardly imagine that having a couple of therse photo sessions as a small child are going to lead to Mental Health problems as one so called "expert" said. Far be it for me to say, a deprived and abusive background is more likely to cause that, and it sounds to me that you are a balanced parent who wants to at least let your child live a little bit and be exposed to the world. Kids, should not be wrapped up in cotton wool and never exposed to anything based on liberal arguments, as long as a parent cares about their child they are never likely to put them into a situation that they are unable to protect them from.

Put the 2,000 bht in his piggy bank, and when he is older you can tell him about his 3 minutes of fame.

[Nikkijah]

Nikkijah, I've been a model for 6 years, during which I've travelled the world and met some really great (and not so great people). My gf has been modeling for over a decade and has the same views as I do about the industry. For most, it's just play, for the few of us who have been wise with our choices it can bring financial freedom at an early age. The industry as it stands in Thailand, however, is an oversupply of models (esp. in the baby category, given the changing attitudes and increasing thai/farang relationships), thus the budgets are hardly what they were say 5-10 years ago (5-10x more pay/commercial/loading, etc.)

I've seen child models, baby models, etc., being followed around by their rural moms. The industry is very urban and for a rural-thinker, rather hard to accept and harder to be accepted. If your wife isn't from BKK, she may bear the brunt of urbanite cruelty (albeit mostly behind her back). On set is very different from on the street, on set everyone is treated as an adult, and your child will be exposed to adult peer-to-peer behaviours...

My advice is let your kid be a kid, he/she probably doesn't want to sit on a set all day long, he/she probably wants to play with his/her friends and/or toys. Then school. Then summers as a model, maybe... then university, still summers as a model... and if he/she wants to go from there, so be it... but for now, my advice would be not to pursue the path you consider.

Don't let your child's mother push him/her either into being a 'dara.' Seen it too often and it's rather pathetic. Let the kid decide when he/she is capable of doing so. If you're doing it for money, I hope I never meet you or your wife in real life.... that would be pathetic (sad though, that's it's still done just about every day....)

If you're still not convinced and want to push the issue further, PM me. I've tried to be straight and civil and not let my tainted view from seeing too many country bumpkin moms trying to make a buck from their kid... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but let me ask you this: what are your (and your wive's) intentions in the matter?

We've got money teejay, not a lot but enough, I've got a steady income so money is not our motivation although extra money is always good to have don't you think?

My partner is from a well-heeled Bangkok family and is no bumpkin.

If our son doesn't appear to be enjoying himself then we will not go to any more shoots. We consider ourselves to be responsible & caring parents and also good judges of our sons character so if we feel he is beginning to show signs of any negative nature then we will stop going to these shoots, whilst he is enjoying himself and simply getting the same amount of attention in a studio environment as he would be just playing in the street then I see no harm in it - it can't be that bad if you're still doing it and if your partner is also doing it, if it was that bad you'd get out...wouldn't you?

[mrtoad]

Nikkijah, I've been a model for 6 years, during which I've travelled the world and met some really great (and not so great people). My gf has been modeling for over a decade and has the same views as I do about the industry. For most, it's just play, for the few of us who have been wise with our choices it can bring financial freedom at an early age. The industry as it stands in Thailand, however, is an oversupply of models (esp. in the baby category, given the changing attitudes and increasing thai/farang relationships), thus the budgets are hardly what they were say 5-10 years ago (5-10x more pay/commercial/loading, etc.)

I've seen child models, baby models, etc., being followed around by their rural moms. The industry is very urban and for a rural-thinker, rather hard to accept and harder to be accepted. If your wife isn't from BKK, she may bear the brunt of urbanite cruelty (albeit mostly behind her back). On set is very different from on the street, on set everyone is treated as an adult, and your child will be exposed to adult peer-to-peer behaviours...

My advice is let your kid be a kid, he/she probably doesn't want to sit on a set all day long, he/she probably wants to play with his/her friends and/or toys. Then school. Then summers as a model, maybe... then university, still summers as a model... and if he/she wants to go from there, so be it... but for now, my advice would be not to pursue the path you consider.

Don't let your child's mother push him/her either into being a 'dara.' Seen it too often and it's rather pathetic. Let the kid decide when he/she is capable of doing so. If you're doing it for money, I hope I never meet you or your wife in real life.... that would be pathetic (sad though, that's it's still done just about every day....)

If you're still not convinced and want to push the issue further, PM me. I've tried to be straight and civil and not let my tainted view from seeing too many country bumpkin moms trying to make a buck from their kid... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but let me ask you this: what are your (and your wive's) intentions in the matter?

My understanding from the OP is that he is not looking to pursue or push a career upon his child, which is a marked difference from some of the parents who see their child as a future meal ticket. Hence, my previous post suggesting that. Why such a big fuss?

Edited July 3, 2007 by mrtoad

[bkkmadness]

Put the 2,000 bht in his piggy bank, and when he is older you can tell him about his 3 minutes of fame.

I done a pampers advert as a kid which I don't remember and then there was a couple more but I do remember not liking them so that was it, child model career over. I remember I was bought a climbing frame for the garden with the money and yep, now I can talk about my 3 minutes of fame.

Didn't hurt me at all, an experience, a memory and a climbing frame, worked out kind of well. But when I didn't like it that was it, wasn't pushed any further which I guess is the important thing. If the kids having fun and the money's going towards things for the kid there's no problem.

My cousin who also did it and enjoyed the work, he carried on doing a few other things until he lost his cute kid looks, and even got an award for one advert (and a page on IMDB.com). Never seemed to screw him up either. Any responsible parent knows what's right for their kid and what's wrong.

On the other hand, 2000 baht a day, that's 80000 a month! Get that kid in bed early tonight Nikkijah, got work come the morn!

[bina]

for some bizarre reason several of our kids on kibbutz have been on sets for various shows and things including two of my three kids; they both hated it. one, because she didnt like the attention and the redoing over and over again and being told to stand here, go there, look up, smile bla bla, and the other, cause she just hated the whole scene and the other kids and found the adults "patronizing" and the kids "empty brained" (her comment at age 13) not reflecting my own thoughts as i never bother to try to influence her-- she is a very independant 19 yr old now and personality 'same same'.

i personally knew an international model that started when she was about 14. she became quite the brat, but it was her mother who was the shover and she was the shovee.

some kids like it some hate it and sensitve parents will know what their kids feel. same as sports moms and dance moms... and their kids.

[Nikkijah]

On the other hand, 2000 baht a day, that's 80000 a month! Get that kid in bed early tonight Nikkijah, got work come the morn!

on the planet Zog bkkmadness?

[bkkmadness]

On the other hand, 2000 baht a day, that's 80000 a month! Get that kid in bed early tonight Nikkijah, got work come the morn!

on the planet Zog bkkmadness?

Well if you aren't going to push your kid into a bit of overtime you're definitely going to need a manager, I'll have that little cherub on crack doing 18 hour shifts.

[Nikkijah]

I'll have that little cherub on crack doing 18 hour shifts.

You got any?

[bkkmadness]

I'll have that little cherub on crack doing 18 hour shifts.

You got any?

A good child agent can find any sleep depriving drug when there's a job on.

Edited July 3, 2007 by bkkmadness

[qualtrough]

Our 6 year old was invited to participate in a Pantene commmercial filmed here. In the event they ran very late doing a scene, so although she was all made up and ready to go her scene was dropped. Our two girls really enjoyed it, and all the staff were very kind. I enjoyed it too, and I learned how they get the hair in those shampoo commercials to bounce (hint: dental floss). It was a big production with people from all over the world. The agency was good too, and my daughter was paid 19,000 Baht, which will go into her bank account.

I remember when I was a kid Wham-O filmed a commercial in our neighborhood and some kids got in as extras. Man how we envied them. I am glad my daughters had a chance to do this at least once.

Edited July 3, 2007 by qualtrough

[steveromagnino]

Persue it as something fun on the side, and nothing too serious; the real money in the entertainment industry will not come from Big C ads, and the real stars usually will not have much exposure prior to making a 'big splash' at some later date.

As a former model in the industry for several years and at the near peak of the profession at least within Thailand and SE Asia for 2 of them, it isn't something that can make you incredibly rich because of the massive number of shiesters and people who cannot be trusted.

However, it is also invaluable experience and does return a great 'return for time spent' plus has some, ahem, good fringe benefits.

It isn't a great place for kids, but from time to time is not bad at all; my own experience was that in general the single worst kids to work with were the mixed race ones with parents who were willing to sacrifice everything for their kid to be a star and spoiled them rotten, but then again the single best child actor I worked with was a 1/2 Thai girl who I think has since gone on to fame and glory. I used to hate some of the parents for the most part; pushing their kids for their own personal glory of being a parent of a dara, and somehow thinking my own family and I had something in common with them because I too was 1/2 Thai.

Incidentally, without ringing alarm bells, prostitution and modelling agencies, particularly in the teens and above (male and female) are not as far removed from eachother as one might think; that's why you have to only deal with quality agencies e.g. Mode, Red, Jim's.

Getting 4 paid days a month is pretty decent if you are only doing lead roles; if you do extra work, then you probably will never become a major star is the rule of thumb; for many children the reality is they will never have what it takes to become a mega star; that is just like every kid in NZ picks up a rugby ball for the most part, but only a few will ever play it at a high level.

In the meantime, enjoy and don't take it too seriously!

Never heard of dental floss in shampoo ads, each ad has its own techniques to acheive various things. Definitely, though, shampoo is a top payer, lead roles in a shampoo ad (for adults) are 100,000+ jobs generally. People have done a lot of bad things, for less money.

And mags + supermarkets/hypermarkets don't pay well ever BTW.

I will say one final edit; every parent thinks their kids are the best looking/special etc. I can guarantee for a fact that I look good, not great, just good. But for some reason I got and still get a lot of work in certain roles; but mostly it was down to I cast as much or more than most other models, I could act, and I got more work in most markets I worked in - Malaysia, Korea, Thailand, HK, Philipines, Singapore. I would never have succeeded in Japan. Some people look fantastic, but do not make great models. For everyone that thinks their kid is going to feel great about getting all these jobs, bear in mind at least 9 out of 10 castings (if they start going regularly) they are going to get beat by a better looking more suitable kid.

And for every parent thinking their kid is special, the camera usually doesn't lie; there are thousands of mixed kids, with more every year. Most look about the same, some better some worse. The odds are not in your favour that your kid will go all the way.

Edited July 4, 2007 by steveromagnino

[Etrigan]

Last year I briefly taught a class of children, ages ranging from 8 - 12, at a small school near Bangkok. One student, is a child model, and she is quite well known due to her countless appearances on television commercials. This girl at the time was eleven years old.

Now please OP read the next part carefully and think about it.

The girl was unable to write her name.

Think about that. Pulled out of school so many times in order to work, with private tutors filling in the gaps, I really wanted to shake some sense into her parents.

[Nikkijah]

Cheers Steve, good reply and some good points

As I've said before, this whole thing is just an experience & some fun.

AjarnRuss, are you seriously suggesting that because this girl was pulled out of school that she couldn't spell her name?? I think it goes a little bit deeper than that - if not then that is a real shame, I would not let it come to that - her parents have let it come to that, it's their fault.

[markwhite]

do gooders

A wonderful phrase.

Given the alternatives as being a 'do-badder' or a 'do-nothinger', I'll happily class myself as a do-gooder.

[Dr. Burrito]

Cheers Moss, not sure what life changing decisions you mean but I appreciate your post.

There does seem to be too many people ready to made idjits of themselves just for their own amusement, this saddens me, I wonder to myself what kind of people they are! I also wonder what would happen if I met them in a bar or restaurant and started the topic with them, would they be such gob-shites then? I think not.

Thank you to everybody who had something helpful to say, even if I didn't want to hear it, some of your comments have made me think about what I'm doing and have also prepared me better should I choose to continue.

now, back to my original post - does anybody have any tips/experience/contacts?

Nikkijah

I have tips, experience and contacts. My first bit of advise goes right with some of the original responses, don't do it. But, as it is your child, be my guest to discover that for yourself.

I have produced commercials here for a few years and a few with kids in them. If your child is background, not too bad of an experience, but also hardly worth the chump change it offers either. If your child is featured or is the star, I sure hope they know what toeing the line means, whether they are tired, hungry or otherwise, because there are about 100 people standing all around them, a very expensive rental package of cameras, lights and grip equipment designated to capture their performance and overtime is damned expensive, so sorry kid, no time for tears or 'Mommy, I want to go home now,' moments.

That give you a small indication of what I am talking about? I am not being overly dramatic either. Ask around on this.

And that was if he/she got the job anyway after having gone to a cattle call of a casting with about 100 other kids, waiting in some crowded room for three-four hours for a fifteen minute, at best, opportunity to get the advertising and commercial directors attention on a video tape they will view to find the right little, lovely darling. You do not want to see taped sessions of their comments on their ideas of what they think of most children compared to what the parent thought.

Do you want to be a stage mom? You get to sit around a set for 10 hours or so, drink stale coffee, eat drying food from serving bins and watch your child do work that at best is presumptive, at worst is boring and tedious.

That ball over in the corner your kid brought to play with? Sorry, he's on the job here. If we have a moment, then maybe, but in the meantime, we need him standing by and we payed for the privilege.

Bottom line, if you kid actually likes it, I mean actually likes it, it might be cool. But getting a child to give an honest answer about this and risk making Mommy or Daddy unhappy is tough. The extra cash is probably nice for school later, but its an iffy call.

Contacts?

Actor's Central 02 5391770

CD Modeling Agency 023222048

Hub Ho Hin 026626223

Mode Models 026167691

P&N 023199251

Pinhead Casting 027168112

There are even more, but that's a start

Dr. B