Rushing democracy is anything but 'wise'

[ABCer]

OP <quote> " Make no mistake: Thailand needs democracy. It’s the only way to go."

Dear 'The Nation', may I disagree with you?

Not in details of that nicely worded article but in the basic foundation it has been built on.

Could it be that you make a mistake?

Who knows what Thailand needs?

What kind, type or form of Democracy are you talking about?

May I suggest even a possibility that Kingdom of Thailand one day ask you to do a bit of soul search?

IMHO Thailand is a good country.

It has good laws, good people, good climate, good soil, plenty of water - enough of good basics for a potentially good life.

There are some serious problems with Management, though.

Well, let us say that every country has its problems. The so called 'Democratic' countries have them too.

Now, look back at your axiom - is it a valid one?

I am a bit confused reading your comment. What do you mean by “What kind, type or form of Democracy are you talking about?”

Are there different forms of democracy or are there different forms of government? Democracy as I understand it is based on two Greek words, one meaning power the other meaning people suggesting that the power a government wields are handed to it by the people.

Another aspect of your comment I fail to understand is the phrase that “It has good laws” referring to Thailand. What laws are you trying to mention – the Constitution – the two previous ones, the not existing current one or the not written yet future one?

The problem is that we don’t have laws as so called ‘democracies’ using your phrase and that our laws always seem to be in flux depending what political colour is just in power.

I am a bit confused reading your comment, ThaiUser. Yes, there are different kinds, types or forms of Democracy.

Since you chose to mention Ancient Greeks, - there is no more their type of Democracy anywhere in the World today.

First, there is too many people and no Plaza big enough to fit them all.

Second, the Greek skills of public speaking does not exist. Nobody uses logic today.

Third, people caught lying or making false promises were usually killed or at least banished.

Fourth, 'Democracy' was and still is the most short lived form of govern. The Roman Empire took about 400 years for the falling process.

Compare this to the age of modern 'long living Democracies'.

Thailand has good laws. Enough of them to live happily. Problem is with implementation of the laws. But I do not want further confusion.

Let us leave it at this.

[Jackson86]

US should not be a busybody and force democracy into other countries. Thailand's situation is different given the fact that they had so many military coups that saw many democratically-elected governments being overthrown. It will be in the best interests of Thailand for themselves to decide.

[Briggsy]

US should not be a busybody and force democracy into other countries. Thailand's situation is different given the fact that they had so many military coups that saw many democratically-elected governments being overthrown. It will be in the best interests of Thailand for themselves to decide.

Thailand cannot decide for themselves. They are not allowed to.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Briggsy

[Jackson86]

US should not be a busybody and force democracy into other countries. Thailand's situation is different given the fact that they had so many military coups that saw many democratically-elected governments being overthrown. It will be in the best interests of Thailand for themselves to decide.

Thailand cannot decide for themselves. They are not allowed to.

then that's their problem. we as outsiders must respect their sovereignty as 1st principle. It is something which Thai people are still wondering about.

[Thai at Heart]

US should not be a busybody and force democracy into other countries. Thailand's situation is different given the fact that they had so many military coups that saw many democratically-elected governments being overthrown. It will be in the best interests of Thailand for themselves to decide.

Thailand cannot decide for themselves. They are not allowed to.

then that's their problem. we as outsiders must respect their sovereignty as 1st principle. It is something which Thai people are still wondering about.

So what u are saying is we should let them scold themselves on the hotplate over and over again until they learn.

All a bit masochistic isn't it?

[tbthailand]

... Snip...

By starting to talk disqualifying people from elections because they are not skilled enough or their education background not good enough one already has left the road of democracy into the one way road of autocracy with a single leader ruling surrounded by his paladins.

Who is talking about disqualifying people from elections at the moment?

Maybe if you would speak Thai and listen to the weekly announcements made by our current PM you would have noticed that he mentioned it too when referring to unqualified people being in parliament in western democracies. I noticed it and so might have others.

Oh, you're talking about standing for election. I thought you were talking about voting.

It makes sense to have a certain level of education to be an MP or a minister. The junta took that requirement out of the 2007 constitution, but realistically, I doubt many MPs that got elected in the last couple of elections didn't have a reasonable education.

The USA has ever only had requirements for citizenship, age, and residency in the district being represented.

This would indicate that restrictions on 'qualifications' or 'education' are just 'restrictions' without any real value towards a more democratic society or better governance.

[sjaak327]

... Snip...

By starting to talk disqualifying people from elections because they are not skilled enough or their education background not good enough one already has left the road of democracy into the one way road of autocracy with a single leader ruling surrounded by his paladins.

Who is talking about disqualifying people from elections at the moment?

Maybe if you would speak Thai and listen to the weekly announcements made by our current PM you would have noticed that he mentioned it too when referring to unqualified people being in parliament in western democracies. I noticed it and so might have others.

Oh, you're talking about standing for election. I thought you were talking about voting.

It makes sense to have a certain level of education to be an MP or a minister. The junta took that requirement out of the 2007 constitution, but realistically, I doubt many MPs that got elected in the last couple of elections didn't have a reasonable education.

I disagree, when one can vote, one should also be able to run for office. Requiring a certain level of education is not a guarantee that people would be fit for office, on the contrary I would say.

This requirement is offering a solution for a problem that doesn't exists and should therefore not be considered.

[willyumiii]

Democracy??

Is there any country on earth that is a true democracy?

Even my country, the USA, who wants to force "democracy" on other countries is not a democracy.

It is a republic.

Democracy only works on a very small scale.

More people than it takes to fill a large room, and you have lost it.

[ThaiUser]

... Snip...

By starting to talk disqualifying people from elections because they are not skilled enough or their education background not good enough one already has left the road of democracy into the one way road of autocracy with a single leader ruling surrounded by his paladins.

Who is talking about disqualifying people from elections at the moment?

Maybe if you would speak Thai and listen to the weekly announcements made by our current PM you would have noticed that he mentioned it too when referring to unqualified people being in parliament in western democracies. I noticed it and so might have others.

Oh, you're talking about standing for election. I thought you were talking about voting.

It makes sense to have a certain level of education to be an MP or a minister. The junta took that requirement out of the 2007 constitution, but realistically, I doubt many MPs that got elected in the last couple of elections didn't have a reasonable education.

Who decides what level of education is required; everybody or a group of people, which already would be contrary to what democracy stands for?

If history has taught us one thing it is that people from a humble background, without the education you seem to have in mind, made great politicians and democrats.

[ThaiUser]

Democracy??

Is there any country on earth that is a true democracy?

Even my country, the USA, who wants to force "democracy" on other countries is not a democracy.

It is a republic.

Democracy only works on a very small scale.

More people than it takes to fill a large room, and you have lost it.

A republic doesn't exclude democracy as form of government. Democracy is exercised when the will of the majority of the people is turned into policies that also take into account concerns of minorities. Democracy fails when politicians after elections decide that the will of the people doesn't count anymore for their duration in office.

[ThaiUser]

OP <quote> " Make no mistake: Thailand needs democracy. It’s the only way to go."

Dear 'The Nation', may I disagree with you?

Not in details of that nicely worded article but in the basic foundation it has been built on.

Could it be that you make a mistake?

Who knows what Thailand needs?

What kind, type or form of Democracy are you talking about?

May I suggest even a possibility that Kingdom of Thailand one day ask you to do a bit of soul search?

IMHO Thailand is a good country.

It has good laws, good people, good climate, good soil, plenty of water - enough of good basics for a potentially good life.

There are some serious problems with Management, though.

Well, let us say that every country has its problems. The so called 'Democratic' countries have them too.

Now, look back at your axiom - is it a valid one?

I am a bit confused reading your comment. What do you mean by “What kind, type or form of Democracy are you talking about?”

Are there different forms of democracy or are there different forms of government? Democracy as I understand it is based on two Greek words, one meaning power the other meaning people suggesting that the power a government wields are handed to it by the people.

Another aspect of your comment I fail to understand is the phrase that “It has good laws” referring to Thailand. What laws are you trying to mention – the Constitution – the two previous ones, the not existing current one or the not written yet future one?

The problem is that we don’t have laws as so called ‘democracies’ using your phrase and that our laws always seem to be in flux depending what political colour is just in power.

I am a bit confused reading your comment, ThaiUser. Yes, there are different kinds, types or forms of Democracy.

Since you chose to mention Ancient Greeks, - there is no more their type of Democracy anywhere in the World today.

First, there is too many people and no Plaza big enough to fit them all.

Second, the Greek skills of public speaking does not exist. Nobody uses logic today.

Third, people caught lying or making false promises were usually killed or at least banished.

Fourth, 'Democracy' was and still is the most short lived form of govern. The Roman Empire took about 400 years for the falling process.

Compare this to the age of modern 'long living Democracies'.

Thailand has good laws. Enough of them to live happily. Problem is with implementation of the laws. But I do not want further confusion.

Let us leave it at this.

I don’t believe that it is my comment that confuses you but the understanding of democracy. Democracy has no different kinds or forms of it. The expression democracy is quite clear and simple – people and power - based on the majority consensus. Ancient Greek you refer to had city states like Sparta and Athens. They might have invented the word democracy but they certainly didn’t practice what they preached since these cities also had slaves which were not part of the political landscape. So in that respect to refer to the ancient Greeks as democrats isn’t correct.

Your first argument that there are too many people and no Plaza big enough to fit them all is invalidated by the fact that you have used the biggest Plaza that there is – the internet with millions of people using it everyday to express their views and opinions.

Your second argument that the skills of public speaking are not in existence anymore and that logic has been lost in our days is a bit disappointing. Anybody that has read Plato, Socrates or any other philosopher around that time knows that one might win an argument using logic but it still might entail the wrong decision. Logic is clinical and doesn’t allow emotions to rule, but humans are beings that depend on emotions like love, compassion etc. In Sparta it was a law that disabled children after birth would be placed outside the city walls for wild animals to solve the problem.

Your third argument I can follow and would suggest that we should implement that in our democracies. It would make for short lived politicians in most countries I know.

That democracy is a short lived form of govern is understandable since it isn’t around that long. Maybe we should discuss it once it has been around as long as the Roman Empire had, but I fear you and I want be part of that discussion.