Secure, long-term financial support for Thai family....!? HELP!

[alanrchase]

@ sometimewoodworker. Off the cuff financial advice is BS. Suppose if you lose can blame someone else. Like the forum but financial advice?

[steven100]

Immediate annuity set up in your home country is the most practical solution for what you want. Possibly set it up as $US to minimize volatility. imo..

[alanrchase]

Immediate annuity set up in your home country is the most practical solution for what you want. Possibly set it up as $US to minimize volatility. imo..

Why the US dollar? Playing stock markets and currencies at the same time?

[KevinB]

Some good advice given already - don't want to rain on your parade but would like to point out the following. As much as you "love" this 30 years old you hint in our post that you ain't gonna be around that much longer.

Well now the truth - any 30 year old lady in Thailand - doesn't like to be left alone and as sure as monkey's have nuts she will get someone else and that person (based on the experience of so many friends and colleagues over the years) is gonna screw them - not literally but financially - first he might come with his own kids(and their financial demands) - before long he will have sold her a hair brain scheme to use what she has access to (including "borrowing"from the kids funds) to really make it big - borrowing against any property you have bought her for safety and using informal money lenders to get together a pile of money for his project and it doesn't matter what safety mechanisms you have put in place - when the goons come to collect their 30% per month payment due on out-standing loan - the suffering is really going to start .

Then they are going to have their own kids - Thai women generally maintain fertility pretty well - and the kids you so dearly want to protect will just be the older kids (and not his kids) and the new one the spoilt little brats..

Added to this at 30 her folks are not doubt in there mid to late 50s - in 15 years time after living a better than normal life off their newly wealthy daughter their health will start to fail and well - no daughter can bear to watch her folks suffer especially with sure good private hospitals available - before you know it there is a another reason to borrow - it's an emergency operation that is required to save a life.

All the grand schemes suggested can't defeat a common Thai belief that if there is a real pressing need for money it is safe to use what you have because if you help those in need somehow the money WILL COME BACK. It just must. Letting your mom, brother, sister, new boyfriend suffer when you have money that is coming in the future (monthly stipend - quarterly annuity payment - annual dividend etc etc) - is simply unacceptable culturally - OH and i forgot to mention what ever you arrange and explain to the good lady - will soon be common knowledge among the extended family and all their friends. The lady will have to have an un-usually "black heart" to resist - Welcome to Thainess. Any family members windfall - is to your benefit as well - all it takes is to whine enough and explain how terrible you need help.

Poor women - who you say you respect - you are just about to turn her life into misery.

[JacChang]

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moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.
6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.
Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.
Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.
Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.
Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.
Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.
Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

There are a number of problems with this approach.

1. Several of the property funds you mention are based on long term rental, not ownership. In other words, the OPs family is not the owner of anything as you suggest. They are simply renting and subletting.
And where exactly is the problem? I really fail to see your point where this is a problem. They are called property funds, they are not stocks. Yes, last time I remember property funds revenue comes from long term rental and renting, thanks for clarifying, is that bad? Your statement of ownership is not exactly correct. The OPs family is indeed the owner through shares of the property funds, which is managed by a banking institution who hires a property manager to take care of the property business.
2. Property funds and REITs go up and down just like all other shares, although they are usually less volatile. Yet some of the funds you mention have gone up and down at least 20% over the last 2 years or so.

Same problem as the previous question, where's the problem? Property funds go up and down, because it's a free market. Do we need to start educating everyone, beware, egg prices may not be the same, oh no, taxi fares have gone up. I think this is pretty much common sense, not something you have point out. I fail to see where you have caught a problem honestly. Property funds go up and down, depending on the market demand for it, most of the time if not all, they move in opposite direction to stocks. When investors view negatively about the market and that their capital may decrease in the time ahead, they will sell stocks, and move to "safer high dividend" property funds. Same thing happens when investors are optimistic about the economy, the reason they move out of property funds is not because they view property funds negatively, but because they feel if they allocate the money to stocks, it may be more beneficial to them. So property funds have always been a mode of transportation, where investors get in and out. As for the OP's interest, we are not concerned about your fluctuations of 2 years or so, that is gambling. We are going to enjoy 30-50 years of dividends to come.
3. Even with property funds things change over time. They are dependent on someone renting what they have to offer, so competing cinemas, shopping malls, hotels etc. might steal the tenants over time, reducing the income and thereby value of the property fund. While some property funds on the SET are doing great, others are not, and noone can predict what the status is in 10 or 20 years.
Nice opinions and common sense refresher. There are good people and bad people in this world, there are good companies and bad companies, sometimes it rains sometimes it floods. News Flash. Everything changes, not just property funds. In this subject, we only discuss numbers. The financial numbers do not lie, we do not need useless theories. There are over 20 property funds in the SET. These recommended property funds are the top 5, and still performing well with rock solid numbers. Be realistic. If anyone were to believe your 3rd statement we would all be doomed and living under a shell. No one knows what will happen in 20 years, keep your money in the safe under the bed! Don't trust the banks, who knows what they will do to it. BTS skytrain will disappear in 5 years, there will be another train that flies. Central world will be taken over by Robinsons department. Sure... How about I'll keep buying the things I recommend, and we'll meet each other in 30 years. hehe
4. Property funds and REITs can be purchased both through brokers and banks. In either case alot of paperwork is needed to set it up, and as it involves information regarding the account owners knowledge regarding stocks, risk acceptance and economy, I doubt it can be inherited without doing it all over again.

My point is, investing directly in any stock, even property funds and REITs require some understanding of the stock market and the business you invest in.
As the OPs family likely has no knowledge in this field whatsoever, I suggested in a post above to simply buy mutual funds or similar directly from any local bank.

The advantages are:

1. Professionals from the bank will invest the OPs money on his behalf and maintain the investment as the years go by. The OP and his family therefore does not need to know anything about the individual stocks.
Sure, the bank can make bad decisions, but odds are they will do better than the OPs family.

Nice try. There are no true professionals, they are just students who graduate with a certain degree, requires a job, buys a suit, starts working. Isn't it funny? This "pro" investor investing your money for you and still requires to eat your money by % commissions, and still needs you to sign a paper that says, investing results in gain or loss and you can't blame him/her. It's like rubbing in your face. This "pro" is a poor guy, who lacks the knowledge and ability to earn money, he requires his job for his next meal or bowl of rice. Go ahead and ask him to show you his portfolio. I guarantee not over 100k. To add more insult to that, he doesn't hold any of the things he recommended to you hahaha.

I repeat, the "professionals" are one of the worst lying scums on the face of this planet, even worst than sales. When they receive your money, they start buying investments based on investment objective and allocation. They are forced to buy a certain percentage of the largest companies on the SET. Their portfolio looks something like this, 5% PTT, 4% ADVANC, 4% CPF, etc. If PTT does well this month, and the stock price goes up 10% because the company is performing well due to increase in revenue. Guess what happens to his portfolio? PTT becomes 5.5% He can't have that, he has banking regulations and investment objective. He is "forced" to sell PTT (a good company) back to 5%. Same thing happens when a stock is doing poorly, the professional is forced to buy more back to maintain that allocation. Understand now? Why when the SET drops a lot, we see retail selling and institution buying? Understand now? Why the technical chart bounces zig zag when moving? There is no guessing, we know the reasons. The more you know, the more control you have. There is no such thing as guessing or gambling.

2. Buying funds at the bank (or a broker), makes it alot easier to spread risk. As an example the OP can buy into funds that cover the whole world, or any part of it, not just Thailand. Or buy into a sector (banking, telecoms, infrastructure etc.) Instead of just 1 company.
That's what most failures use as an excuse. The true eye is able to choose which are the best and to buy them only. Those who lack the ability to do so, fears buying a bad apple, so decides to buy all apples ending up with good apples and bad apples, and patting himself on the back saying he hasn't failed completely.
3. Buying mutual funds require alot less paperwork than opening a trading account. And buying or selling funds can easily be done at the bank.
Once set up, it's all click click click. No paperwork. Nil. Too much excuses and negativity. Don't like this type of person on my team lol, give you a thousand reasons why a specific project can't be completed. instead of finding ways to accomplish and go forward.
The downside is that the bank charges a fee for taking care of the funds. I think it is usually around 1-2% a year.

The only fact I accept in this post.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer using a trading account myself, but if I knew nothing about the stock market, I would let a bank or broker do it for me.

Sorry I really have to counter most of your statements

[JacChang]

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moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

Wow! Thank you very much. Exactly the help I have been hoping for! This is a very detailed and interesting write-up. Thank you so much. Absolutely, heavy filters needed :-) Fully understood. But...If I buy all this in my name/account. ATM cards expire. How will they get renewed. Etc. Etc. This girl is by now educated enough to understand the seriousness of the situation, she has run several of my businesses (me directing and troubleshooting from background) and many, many Mio have gone though her hands. She never asked for a dime all these years and is not money-hungry at all. Still a simple girl. Also very well-known and successful. Fully trusted, never anything amiss or wrong. So just maybe, I could actually set up that entire proposal of yours in her name....If she screws up, she knows of the consequences.

Sorry, I have never invested in Thailand and am totally ignorant, but I am an active investor abroad. I understand correct? I open a brokerage account, which is held and managed by that firm, Dividends paid in a KK-account.

Option 2, I consider, but this means for her more work (without my support as til now!), buying her a bunch of studios, she is in the business and very good at renting, all established businesses and she could easily make double the money, BUT would be stuck in her location and job, which is really too much for her. Or she will end up with some bloody C like myself down the road. 30 yrs. of stress have done this to me...555...

I can easily add a bit to the initial sum and my first thought, still digesting, it might be better getting a bit less income, but long-term, safe, than starting a new venture and new stress. She could move back up country to her mother, they have a nice home etc. etc. GREAT HELP and food to think in the PET today.

I really like your proposal and will discuss with her asap. These brokerage firms, do they have offices? In Pattaya by chance? Or all online? Would you have a couple of reliable names by any chance. What kind of insurance you mention above? Do you know about tax consequences in such a case? Sorry, my head is not 100% these days. Wow, you got me thinking now. Already written to them for proposal along your lines. I can easily do 10 Mio and still leave them some in mutual fund as you mention. Hope I got enough time to get this going. Sounds much better than anything I have been looking at so far and she makes almost as much with possibility of a job that pleases her and is a bit more easy. Thank you so very much. May I bother you some more, after digesting this.....Please.... Off to more scans.... MS>

Hello

As for the atm problem, you will have to ask other members. My personal opinion is maybe set up a joint account? Or in other words, from your description of your other half, you have nothing to be afraid right? In that case you may wish to open the bank accounts and trading accounts in her name. This you have to decide for yourself, because protection for yourself is the upmost priority.

I'll explain in detail to you the process. First you must already have a thai banking account. Next you would need to choose a brokerage firm. I've heard great things about MBKET from other members. Recently a good friend here on this forum, David, introduced me to KT ZMICO, and if you have any problems, you can email their staff and they will reply to you in English as well. After you have chosen your brokerage firm, you can request them to mail you the application package if you are in Thailand with a local delivery address. Or they will send you by email the package, and you have to print it out, fill every page and sign, and provide copies of certified documents such as passport, bank front page, and so on. After you mail them the package, they should send you a mail with the id and password. Now you can start using their website to purchase stocks/funds/etc. directly without going through the staff. This also saves you commission cost at a discount. You will have to set up internet banking on your local thai bank account, which you can transfer directly to your brokerage account. They usually update in 1-2 hours time. Once you see the money in your brokerage account, you can start buying. Once you succeeded in buying a share, the money will be deducted. Same with selling, money gets credited. T+2 days. You can also withdraw the money from brokerage account to bank account anytime you desire through the website. Usually it takes a day. Dividends are usually paid directly to your stated local bank account with no hassles from your part. However, I am aware of certain property funds that will not do so. Instead they issue a cheque to you by mailing address. This is where the bank management comes into play. In my experience, some funds managed by SCB will only deposit directly into SCB accounts, so I use Kbank, they will issue cheque, which is annoying. So I tend to stick with kbank managed funds if possible.

Taxes, there are no capital gains tax at the moment. Dividends have a 10% withholding tax deducted at source if you choose so. Dividends can be used as tax credits if you choose, but make sure your other half's tax bracket is actually low. If it is high, it is preferred to just accept the 10% tax, than to apply for tax credits.

The brokers have offices as well as reliable emails. A simple google should show you all the information you need.

I understand your other half is very successful and bright, and what we would like to work for her is to increase her passive income, instead of "giving her more chores" to do. That is why investing is so interesting to me. Starting at the age of 20, the more I age, the less I work, and the higher the income goes with time.

You don't have to put it all in at once, that's the beauty of this. I started out with my first 50,000. I can not say the same about properties. High entrance barrier, and once you buy it, the risk is too high as you have put millions into the real estate.

When you are free, have a check of settrade website available in English. Input the funds I have given to you, you can check their history of dividend payments and company news, and so on.

I'll put a website here, I'm not sure if it's allowed, mods please remove if forbidden.

http://www.settrade.com/C04_01_stock_quote_p1.jsp?txtSymbol=BTSGIF&selectPage=

And for mutual funds, please stick with "money market mutual funds" only. Anything else than that, there is risk. You will notice when I say risk, I do mean it, not like the others using that word anytime. Mutual funds we never want any risk, we never want some unknown person to play with our money. If you have kasikornbank, k-mplus is the one you should get. Best out of the 5 "money market funds" they have. There is no risk, everyday nav never deducts, only goes up little or up a lot. No surprises. They are what I like to call, the destroyer of time deposits. High 2.2%ish returns, and can be redeemed anytime, money in bank account next morning.

Good luck man! It won't be easy sorting all these out and making the final decision. I wish you the best. Let me know if you have further questions.

[JacChang]

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^^^^^ To alanrchase,
if it pleases you to know. for 2014, I've only bought 2 new stocks, SAMART and MINT.

My gains for SAMART without including the dividends already received is 165.66%. My purchased price is 14.64, current price at this time is 39. I purchased it this year around march or april.

But does it matter? Am I excited? No. Reason? I am not a gambler. It does not please me, the capital gains I have received. What pleases me is, all the stocks I own are my greatest assets that produce income for me. What I hold, are winners, companies who continue to profit from the economy, continuous expansion, etc. As long as those holds true, I only expand my assets, not like you have said, buy and sell. That is gambling for traders. I am not interested and do not support. Traders often claim victory, claim loss, cry, spread words of fear and failure. Investors start with 100,000, end up with 1 million, then 10 million, then 100 million. We are not here to buy and sell. We are here to accumulate. But through accumulation, we get more good companies, and ditch bad companies. It is in our mission, to own 100% of the world's economy if possible. How nice, to be owner of all the restaurants in this world, all the hotels, all the transportation, all the companies. That my friend, is the goal, not buy and sell. Those who buy and sell, continue to be gamblers, continue to disrupt the true meaning of investors, tarnish the image, provoke fear amongst all. At the end of the day, ask yourself, these people are "still poor". Who are the rich? Yes, those with stocks. Do they buy and sell all day? No. They own assets and will prevent anyone from stealing it from them. Just because my stock has gone up 200% doesn't mean I'll let it be easy for someone to take it off my hand.

Make your choice today. Live in fear and continue your life. Or join the rich. A simple 50,000 starts the journey for you to build your castle on.

Great. Wish you well. My only point is it is a bit of a gamble. Get it right big return. I bought shares in a life insurance company at the beginning of this year, UK budget nocked them down 20%. Sold at a profit last month and got a 6% dividend. Just bought some oil shares, good move?

I would suggest you quit that move if that hasn't become a loss yet. It's going to be very similar to gold. We all know fuel prices have dropped a lot recently, and of course oil stocks also drop, making it seem like a good entrance. But the problem is, it is way too early in the game now to enter the game. A lot of people like to enter on dips, catching the opportunity to say, but it's too early. The drop is still dropping. This isn't a 1-2 month low fuel price freebie. It's a war and a trend. Some may say, US is doing it because Russia gains from exporting high oil. By lowering the fuel price by selling at low prices, the market will only accept low price fuels from US. In that case, who will buy Russia's? This cripples Russia's economy as wanted by the US. This is an economic war.

So alan, my friend, it will continue to drop. There is no rush to pick it up yet, let's wait for the good news for oil, then we enter, and trust me, it will not be too late. Drops take a month to a year, it's quick. But going up takes 4-5 years atleast.

Thailand's PTT, from close to 400 a few months ago, now only 326. Will I be surprised if it drops to 300? I won't. If it does drop to 270-290, I will buy though. Reason is, at 326, it seems to take a stand. But every action must have a reason, the fuel problem is not yesterday, it's today, and tomorrow. And I even dare say months to come. Even until April next year, we are all still enjoying low fuel costs. Because of this exact reason, the 326 will drop drop drop. You need good news to pull it up. Old investors know this is not the end of the world, we know PTT will climb up back to 360 and beyond. But the question is when? My simple reply is not now. Maybe 6-7 months later from now.

Same with gold, sure it's cheap. Cheaper than years before. Let's enter why not? But those who enter, gets stuck, and question why it's not going up. Because, it needs a reason to. When that reason arises, is the place and time to enter. But now. No use getting an early packing space in a mall that's not yet opened.

[moonseeker]

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moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

Wow! Thank you very much. Exactly the help I have been hoping for! This is a very detailed and interesting write-up. Thank you so much. Absolutely, heavy filters needed :-) Fully understood. But...If I buy all this in my name/account. ATM cards expire. How will they get renewed. Etc. Etc. This girl is by now educated enough to understand the seriousness of the situation, she has run several of my businesses (me directing and troubleshooting from background) and many, many Mio have gone though her hands. She never asked for a dime all these years and is not money-hungry at all. Still a simple girl. Also very well-known and successful. Fully trusted, never anything amiss or wrong. So just maybe, I could actually set up that entire proposal of yours in her name....If she screws up, she knows of the consequences.

Sorry, I have never invested in Thailand and am totally ignorant, but I am an active investor abroad. I understand correct? I open a brokerage account, which is held and managed by that firm, Dividends paid in a KK-account.

Option 2, I consider, but this means for her more work (without my support as til now!), buying her a bunch of studios, she is in the business and very good at renting, all established businesses and she could easily make double the money, BUT would be stuck in her location and job, which is really too much for her. Or she will end up with some bloody C like myself down the road. 30 yrs. of stress have done this to me...555...

I can easily add a bit to the initial sum and my first thought, still digesting, it might be better getting a bit less income, but long-term, safe, than starting a new venture and new stress. She could move back up country to her mother, they have a nice home etc. etc. GREAT HELP and food to think in the PET today.

I really like your proposal and will discuss with her asap. These brokerage firms, do they have offices? In Pattaya by chance? Or all online? Would you have a couple of reliable names by any chance. What kind of insurance you mention above? Do you know about tax consequences in such a case? Sorry, my head is not 100% these days. Wow, you got me thinking now. Already written to them for proposal along your lines. I can easily do 10 Mio and still leave them some in mutual fund as you mention. Hope I got enough time to get this going. Sounds much better than anything I have been looking at so far and she makes almost as much with possibility of a job that pleases her and is a bit more easy. Thank you so very much. May I bother you some more, after digesting this.....Please.... Off to more scans.... MS>

Hello

As for the atm problem, you will have to ask other members. My personal opinion is maybe set up a joint account? Or in other words, from your description of your other half, you have nothing to be afraid right? In that case you may wish to open the bank accounts and trading accounts in her name. This you have to decide for yourself, because protection for yourself is the upmost priority.

I'll explain in detail to you the process. First you must already have a thai banking account. Next you would need to choose a brokerage firm. I've heard great things about MBKET from other members. Recently a good friend here on this forum, David, introduced me to KT ZMICO, and if you have any problems, you can email their staff and they will reply to you in English as well. After you have chosen your brokerage firm, you can request them to mail you the application package if you are in Thailand with a local delivery address. Or they will send you by email the package, and you have to print it out, fill every page and sign, and provide copies of certified documents such as passport, bank front page, and so on. After you mail them the package, they should send you a mail with the id and password. Now you can start using their website to purchase stocks/funds/etc. directly without going through the staff. This also saves you commission cost at a discount. You will have to set up internet banking on your local thai bank account, which you can transfer directly to your brokerage account. They usually update in 1-2 hours time. Once you see the money in your brokerage account, you can start buying. Once you succeeded in buying a share, the money will be deducted. Same with selling, money gets credited. T+2 days. You can also withdraw the money from brokerage account to bank account anytime you desire through the website. Usually it takes a day. Dividends are usually paid directly to your stated local bank account with no hassles from your part. However, I am aware of certain property funds that will not do so. Instead they issue a cheque to you by mailing address. This is where the bank management comes into play. In my experience, some funds managed by SCB will only deposit directly into SCB accounts, so I use Kbank, they will issue cheque, which is annoying. So I tend to stick with kbank managed funds if possible.

Taxes, there are no capital gains tax at the moment. Dividends have a 10% withholding tax deducted at source if you choose so. Dividends can be used as tax credits if you choose, but make sure your other half's tax bracket is actually low. If it is high, it is preferred to just accept the 10% tax, than to apply for tax credits.

The brokers have offices as well as reliable emails. A simple google should show you all the information you need.

I understand your other half is very successful and bright, and what we would like to work for her is to increase her passive income, instead of "giving her more chores" to do. That is why investing is so interesting to me. Starting at the age of 20, the more I age, the less I work, and the higher the income goes with time.

You don't have to put it all in at once, that's the beauty of this. I started out with my first 50,000. I can not say the same about properties. High entrance barrier, and once you buy it, the risk is too high as you have put millions into the real estate.

When you are free, have a check of settrade website available in English. Input the funds I have given to you, you can check their history of dividend payments and company news, and so on.

I'll put a website here, I'm not sure if it's allowed, mods please remove if forbidden.

http://www.settrade.com/C04_01_stock_quote_p1.jsp?txtSymbol=BTSGIF&selectPage=

And for mutual funds, please stick with "money market mutual funds" only. Anything else than that, there is risk. You will notice when I say risk, I do mean it, not like the others using that word anytime. Mutual funds we never want any risk, we never want some unknown person to play with our money. If you have kasikornbank, k-mplus is the one you should get. Best out of the 5 "money market funds" they have. There is no risk, everyday nav never deducts, only goes up little or up a lot. No surprises. They are what I like to call, the destroyer of time deposits. High 2.2%ish returns, and can be redeemed anytime, money in bank account next morning.

Good luck man! It won't be easy sorting all these out and making the final decision. I wish you the best. Let me know if you have further questions.

Thank you very, very much. And all others too. Indeed, dramatic days. From scan to scan and the new gets only worse. And still so much to do and decide. I hope it keeps me busy and distracted until the end. And I hope with all of TV's help I can make a few positive moves for some good people, before it is over. The only thing that makes me happy right now...Plus dogs and some good music.....THX> again to everybody. Mostly great community! MS>

[moonseeker]

Some good advice given already - don't want to rain on your parade but would like to point out the following. As much as you "love" this 30 years old you hint in our post that you ain't gonna be around that much longer.

Well now the truth - any 30 year old lady in Thailand - doesn't like to be left alone and as sure as monkey's have nuts she will get someone else and that person (based on the experience of so many friends and colleagues over the years) is gonna screw them - not literally but financially - first he might come with his own kids(and their financial demands) - before long he will have sold her a hair brain scheme to use what she has access to (including "borrowing"from the kids funds) to really make it big - borrowing against any property you have bought her for safety and using informal money lenders to get together a pile of money for his project and it doesn't matter what safety mechanisms you have put in place - when the goons come to collect their 30% per month payment due on out-standing loan - the suffering is really going to start .

Then they are going to have their own kids - Thai women generally maintain fertility pretty well - and the kids you so dearly want to protect will just be the older kids (and not his kids) and the new one the spoilt little brats..

Added to this at 30 her folks are not doubt in there mid to late 50s - in 15 years time after living a better than normal life off their newly wealthy daughter their health will start to fail and well - no daughter can bear to watch her folks suffer especially with sure good private hospitals available - before you know it there is a another reason to borrow - it's an emergency operation that is required to save a life.

All the grand schemes suggested can't defeat a common Thai belief that if there is a real pressing need for money it is safe to use what you have because if you help those in need somehow the money WILL COME BACK. It just must. Letting your mom, brother, sister, new boyfriend suffer when you have money that is coming in the future (monthly stipend - quarterly annuity payment - annual dividend etc etc) - is simply unacceptable culturally - OH and i forgot to mention what ever you arrange and explain to the good lady - will soon be common knowledge among the extended family and all their friends. The lady will have to have an un-usually "black heart" to resist - Welcome to Thainess. Any family members windfall - is to your benefit as well - all it takes is to whine enough and explain how terrible you need help.

Poor women - who you say you respect - you are just about to turn her life into misery.

Been here long enough and VERY involved. Have seen it all and worse :-)....Time will tell...I will make sure they send me regular reports by DHL....5555

We might be in for a surprise....I look at it as giving away the 10 % "play & risk money". None of my family back home or friends gets hurt. Bloody hell, now that i was ready to retire and start enjoying.....Decision made 1.12.2014 and 19.12. first diagnosis....Happy New Year. MS>

Edited December 30, 2014 by moonseeker

[AyG]

Very interesting selection of stocks, but this is hopelessly overoptimistic:

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years.

Companies just don't stay around for that long. The average lifespan of an S&P 500 company is around 25 years. (I don't have equivalent figures for the Thai market.)

If you really read my post, you wouldn't be saying that.

These are not simply stocks, they are more considered real estate funds. Investors pool their money together and managed by a certain bank with a specific investment policy. For BTSGIF, the funds is used to buy the rights to ticket revenues and so on at certain stations. BTS basically has to rent from the investors by giving the revenue from sales of tickets.

There is no such thing as a rational "buy and hold forever" type of portfolio. And 50 years is a very long time. Things could change dramatically.

At the turn of the 20th century railroad stocks were a major asset class for investors. Times changed and most of the stock certificates are now little more than interesting collectibles.

Will the BTS be here in 50 years' time? Possibly. Possibly not. Here are just a few possible things that could happen:

- Bangkok floods and is subsequently abandoned

- There's a Khmer Rouge-style revolution and everybody is ordered out of Bangkok

- We all start travelling by Jetson-style aerocars

- Driverless vehicles vastly improve the road speed in the city, making the BTS redundant

- Government imposes caps on fares making the BTS unprofitable, so there's no dividend. Ultimately the company goes bankrupt and is taken into public ownership

- The BTS is acquired by a private equity firm

- The MRT expands massively and BTS can't take the competition

Some of these scenarios are more likely than others, but they just illustrate that one can't depend upon a one time stock selection to hold up over decades. Portfolios need to be monitored and adjusted if they are to continue providing the desired income stream. If the Thai family can't do that, then the responsibility should be given to a professional fund management company with fingers crossed that the fund management company will do a passable job at stock picking.

[monkeycountry]

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moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

There are a number of problems with this approach.

1. Several of the property funds you mention are based on long term rental, not ownership. In other words, the OPs family is not the owner of anything as you suggest. They are simply renting and subletting.

And where exactly is the problem? I really fail to see your point where this is a problem. They are called property funds, they are not stocks. Yes, last time I remember property funds revenue comes from long term rental and renting, thanks for clarifying, is that bad? Your statement of ownership is not exactly correct. The OPs family is indeed the owner through shares of the property funds, which is managed by a banking institution who hires a property manager to take care of the property business.

2. Property funds and REITs go up and down just like all other shares, although they are usually less volatile. Yet some of the funds you mention have gone up and down at least 20% over the last 2 years or so.

Same problem as the previous question, where's the problem? Property funds go up and down, because it's a free market. Do we need to start educating everyone, beware, egg prices may not be the same, oh no, taxi fares have gone up. I think this is pretty much common sense, not something you have point out. I fail to see where you have caught a problem honestly. Property funds go up and down, depending on the market demand for it, most of the time if not all, they move in opposite direction to stocks. When investors view negatively about the market and that their capital may decrease in the time ahead, they will sell stocks, and move to "safer high dividend" property funds. Same thing happens when investors are optimistic about the economy, the reason they move out of property funds is not because they view property funds negatively, but because they feel if they allocate the money to stocks, it may be more beneficial to them. So property funds have always been a mode of transportation, where investors get in and out. As for the OP's interest, we are not concerned about your fluctuations of 2 years or so, that is gambling. We are going to enjoy 30-50 years of dividends to come.

3. Even with property funds things change over time. They are dependent on someone renting what they have to offer, so competing cinemas, shopping malls, hotels etc. might steal the tenants over time, reducing the income and thereby value of the property fund. While some property funds on the SET are doing great, others are not, and noone can predict what the status is in 10 or 20 years.

Nice opinions and common sense refresher. There are good people and bad people in this world, there are good companies and bad companies, sometimes it rains sometimes it floods. News Flash. Everything changes, not just property funds. In this subject, we only discuss numbers. The financial numbers do not lie, we do not need useless theories. There are over 20 property funds in the SET. These recommended property funds are the top 5, and still performing well with rock solid numbers. Be realistic. If anyone were to believe your 3rd statement we would all be doomed and living under a shell. No one knows what will happen in 20 years, keep your money in the safe under the bed! Don't trust the banks, who knows what they will do to it. BTS skytrain will disappear in 5 years, there will be another train that flies. Central world will be taken over by Robinsons department. Sure... How about I'll keep buying the things I recommend, and we'll meet each other in 30 years. hehe

4. Property funds and REITs can be purchased both through brokers and banks. In either case alot of paperwork is needed to set it up, and as it involves information regarding the account owners knowledge regarding stocks, risk acceptance and economy, I doubt it can be inherited without doing it all over again.

My point is, investing directly in any stock, even property funds and REITs require some understanding of the stock market and the business you invest in.

As the OPs family likely has no knowledge in this field whatsoever, I suggested in a post above to simply buy mutual funds or similar directly from any local bank.

The advantages are:

1. Professionals from the bank will invest the OPs money on his behalf and maintain the investment as the years go by. The OP and his family therefore does not need to know anything about the individual stocks.

Sure, the bank can make bad decisions, but odds are they will do better than the OPs family.

Nice try. There are no true professionals, they are just students who graduate with a certain degree, requires a job, buys a suit, starts working. Isn't it funny? This "pro" investor investing your money for you and still requires to eat your money by % commissions, and still needs you to sign a paper that says, investing results in gain or loss and you can't blame him/her. It's like rubbing in your face. This "pro" is a poor guy, who lacks the knowledge and ability to earn money, he requires his job for his next meal or bowl of rice. Go ahead and ask him to show you his portfolio. I guarantee not over 100k. To add more insult to that, he doesn't hold any of the things he recommended to you hahaha.

I repeat, the "professionals" are one of the worst lying scums on the face of this planet, even worst than sales. When they receive your money, they start buying investments based on investment objective and allocation. They are forced to buy a certain percentage of the largest companies on the SET. Their portfolio looks something like this, 5% PTT, 4% ADVANC, 4% CPF, etc. If PTT does well this month, and the stock price goes up 10% because the company is performing well due to increase in revenue. Guess what happens to his portfolio? PTT becomes 5.5% He can't have that, he has banking regulations and investment objective. He is "forced" to sell PTT (a good company) back to 5%. Same thing happens when a stock is doing poorly, the professional is forced to buy more back to maintain that allocation. Understand now? Why when the SET drops a lot, we see retail selling and institution buying? Understand now? Why the technical chart bounces zig zag when moving? There is no guessing, we know the reasons. The more you know, the more control you have. There is no such thing as guessing or gambling.

2. Buying funds at the bank (or a broker), makes it alot easier to spread risk. As an example the OP can buy into funds that cover the whole world, or any part of it, not just Thailand. Or buy into a sector (banking, telecoms, infrastructure etc.) Instead of just 1 company.

That's what most failures use as an excuse. The true eye is able to choose which are the best and to buy them only. Those who lack the ability to do so, fears buying a bad apple, so decides to buy all apples ending up with good apples and bad apples, and patting himself on the back saying he hasn't failed completely.

3. Buying mutual funds require alot less paperwork than opening a trading account. And buying or selling funds can easily be done at the bank.

Once set up, it's all click click click. No paperwork. Nil. Too much excuses and negativity. Don't like this type of person on my team lol, give you a thousand reasons why a specific project can't be completed. instead of finding ways to accomplish and go forward.

The downside is that the bank charges a fee for taking care of the funds. I think it is usually around 1-2% a year.

The only fact I accept in this post.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer using a trading account myself, but if I knew nothing about the stock market, I would let a bank or broker do it for me.

Sorry I really have to counter most of your statements

You said the OPs family would be "owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies".

I then counter your statement, as many of the property funds only rent the land and buildings they invest in, and you then claim than owning shares in a property fund that rents land is the same as owning land. Well I bet the guy whose name is on the chanote will disagree :-)

Anyway, I see no point in you and me debating this, as we will clearly never agree on much. My comment was meant for the OP, and I am sure he can decide for himself which advise to take and which not to.

I am glad to hear that you only pick winning stocks and never lose. I think you may be the first investor in history to do that, so congratulations.

You should consider getting paid for that skill, as many of the big investment banks will pay millions of dollars for a guy who always pick winning stocks :-)

[monkeycountry]

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moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

There are a number of problems with this approach.

1. Several of the property funds you mention are based on long term rental, not ownership. In other words, the OPs family is not the owner of anything as you suggest. They are simply renting and subletting.

And where exactly is the problem? I really fail to see your point where this is a problem. They are called property funds, they are not stocks. Yes, last time I remember property funds revenue comes from long term rental and renting, thanks for clarifying, is that bad? Your statement of ownership is not exactly correct. The OPs family is indeed the owner through shares of the property funds, which is managed by a banking institution who hires a property manager to take care of the property business.

2. Property funds and REITs go up and down just like all other shares, although they are usually less volatile. Yet some of the funds you mention have gone up and down at least 20% over the last 2 years or so.

Same problem as the previous question, where's the problem? Property funds go up and down, because it's a free market. Do we need to start educating everyone, beware, egg prices may not be the same, oh no, taxi fares have gone up. I think this is pretty much common sense, not something you have point out. I fail to see where you have caught a problem honestly. Property funds go up and down, depending on the market demand for it, most of the time if not all, they move in opposite direction to stocks. When investors view negatively about the market and that their capital may decrease in the time ahead, they will sell stocks, and move to "safer high dividend" property funds. Same thing happens when investors are optimistic about the economy, the reason they move out of property funds is not because they view property funds negatively, but because they feel if they allocate the money to stocks, it may be more beneficial to them. So property funds have always been a mode of transportation, where investors get in and out. As for the OP's interest, we are not concerned about your fluctuations of 2 years or so, that is gambling. We are going to enjoy 30-50 years of dividends to come.

3. Even with property funds things change over time. They are dependent on someone renting what they have to offer, so competing cinemas, shopping malls, hotels etc. might steal the tenants over time, reducing the income and thereby value of the property fund. While some property funds on the SET are doing great, others are not, and noone can predict what the status is in 10 or 20 years.

Nice opinions and common sense refresher. There are good people and bad people in this world, there are good companies and bad companies, sometimes it rains sometimes it floods. News Flash. Everything changes, not just property funds. In this subject, we only discuss numbers. The financial numbers do not lie, we do not need useless theories. There are over 20 property funds in the SET. These recommended property funds are the top 5, and still performing well with rock solid numbers. Be realistic. If anyone were to believe your 3rd statement we would all be doomed and living under a shell. No one knows what will happen in 20 years, keep your money in the safe under the bed! Don't trust the banks, who knows what they will do to it. BTS skytrain will disappear in 5 years, there will be another train that flies. Central world will be taken over by Robinsons department. Sure... How about I'll keep buying the things I recommend, and we'll meet each other in 30 years. hehe

4. Property funds and REITs can be purchased both through brokers and banks. In either case alot of paperwork is needed to set it up, and as it involves information regarding the account owners knowledge regarding stocks, risk acceptance and economy, I doubt it can be inherited without doing it all over again.

My point is, investing directly in any stock, even property funds and REITs require some understanding of the stock market and the business you invest in.

As the OPs family likely has no knowledge in this field whatsoever, I suggested in a post above to simply buy mutual funds or similar directly from any local bank.

The advantages are:

1. Professionals from the bank will invest the OPs money on his behalf and maintain the investment as the years go by. The OP and his family therefore does not need to know anything about the individual stocks.

Sure, the bank can make bad decisions, but odds are they will do better than the OPs family.

Nice try. There are no true professionals, they are just students who graduate with a certain degree, requires a job, buys a suit, starts working. Isn't it funny? This "pro" investor investing your money for you and still requires to eat your money by % commissions, and still needs you to sign a paper that says, investing results in gain or loss and you can't blame him/her. It's like rubbing in your face. This "pro" is a poor guy, who lacks the knowledge and ability to earn money, he requires his job for his next meal or bowl of rice. Go ahead and ask him to show you his portfolio. I guarantee not over 100k. To add more insult to that, he doesn't hold any of the things he recommended to you hahaha.

I repeat, the "professionals" are one of the worst lying scums on the face of this planet, even worst than sales. When they receive your money, they start buying investments based on investment objective and allocation. They are forced to buy a certain percentage of the largest companies on the SET. Their portfolio looks something like this, 5% PTT, 4% ADVANC, 4% CPF, etc. If PTT does well this month, and the stock price goes up 10% because the company is performing well due to increase in revenue. Guess what happens to his portfolio? PTT becomes 5.5% He can't have that, he has banking regulations and investment objective. He is "forced" to sell PTT (a good company) back to 5%. Same thing happens when a stock is doing poorly, the professional is forced to buy more back to maintain that allocation. Understand now? Why when the SET drops a lot, we see retail selling and institution buying? Understand now? Why the technical chart bounces zig zag when moving? There is no guessing, we know the reasons. The more you know, the more control you have. There is no such thing as guessing or gambling.

2. Buying funds at the bank (or a broker), makes it alot easier to spread risk. As an example the OP can buy into funds that cover the whole world, or any part of it, not just Thailand. Or buy into a sector (banking, telecoms, infrastructure etc.) Instead of just 1 company.

That's what most failures use as an excuse. The true eye is able to choose which are the best and to buy them only. Those who lack the ability to do so, fears buying a bad apple, so decides to buy all apples ending up with good apples and bad apples, and patting himself on the back saying he hasn't failed completely.

3. Buying mutual funds require alot less paperwork than opening a trading account. And buying or selling funds can easily be done at the bank.

Once set up, it's all click click click. No paperwork. Nil. Too much excuses and negativity. Don't like this type of person on my team lol, give you a thousand reasons why a specific project can't be completed. instead of finding ways to accomplish and go forward.

The downside is that the bank charges a fee for taking care of the funds. I think it is usually around 1-2% a year.

The only fact I accept in this post.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer using a trading account myself, but if I knew nothing about the stock market, I would let a bank or broker do it for me.

Sorry I really have to counter most of your statements

You said the OPs family would be "owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies".

I then counter your statement, as many of the property funds only rent the land and buildings they invest in, and you then claim than owning shares in a property fund that rents land is the same as owning land. Well I bet the guy whose name is on the chanote will disagree :-)

Anyway, I see no point in you and me debating this, as we will clearly never agree on much. My comment was meant for the OP, and I am sure he can decide for himself which advise to take and which not to.

I am glad to hear that you only pick winning stocks and never lose. I think you may be the first investor in history to do that, so congratulations.

You should consider getting paid for that skill, as many of the big investment banks will pay millions of dollars for a guy who always pick winning stocks :-)

[StefanBBK]

Just a quick idea. Split it up as good as possible. Perhaps 50% invested in a managed apartment back home. Proceeds from rent to go straight to her account .

rest in the various options outlined in the thread.

Sorry to hear about the "C". Hope sincerely you manage all well.

[maidee]

here is an idea : you still have family in your home country?

do you trust them ?

if yes, give them the money, and ask them to send 30.000 baht per month to this 30 year old thing

maybe a younger male family member would be intrested to take over your LEASE ...

any pictures available ?

[moonseeker]

here is an idea : you still have family in your home country?

do you trust them ?

if yes, give them the money, and ask them to send 30.000 baht per month to this 30 year old thing

maybe a younger male family member would be intrested to take over your LEASE ...

any pictures available ?

5555... and i thought i was bitter.....Happy New Year....MS>

[JacChang]

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Very interesting selection of stocks, but this is hopelessly overoptimistic:

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years.

Companies just don't stay around for that long. The average lifespan of an S&P 500 company is around 25 years. (I don't have equivalent figures for the Thai market.)

If you really read my post, you wouldn't be saying that.
These are not simply stocks, they are more considered real estate funds. Investors pool their money together and managed by a certain bank with a specific investment policy. For BTSGIF, the funds is used to buy the rights to ticket revenues and so on at certain stations. BTS basically has to rent from the investors by giving the revenue from sales of tickets.

There is no such thing as a rational "buy and hold forever" type of portfolio. And 50 years is a very long time. Things could change dramatically.

At the turn of the 20th century railroad stocks were a major asset class for investors. Times changed and most of the stock certificates are now little more than interesting collectibles.

Will the BTS be here in 50 years' time? Possibly. Possibly not. Here are just a few possible things that could happen:

- Bangkok floods and is subsequently abandoned
- There's a Khmer Rouge-style revolution and everybody is ordered out of Bangkok
- We all start travelling by Jetson-style aerocars
- Driverless vehicles vastly improve the road speed in the city, making the BTS redundant
- Government imposes caps on fares making the BTS unprofitable, so there's no dividend. Ultimately the company goes bankrupt and is taken into public ownership
- The BTS is acquired by a private equity firm
- The MRT expands massively and BTS can't take the competition

Some of these scenarios are more likely than others, but they just illustrate that one can't depend upon a one time stock selection to hold up over decades. Portfolios need to be monitored and adjusted if they are to continue providing the desired income stream. If the Thai family can't do that, then the responsibility should be given to a professional fund management company with fingers crossed that the fund management company will do a passable job at stock picking.

Hahahaha. Please walk to any board room and say that in front of everyone.

Again, I must quote my previous post, hoping this time it will work.

"If you really read my post, you wouldn't be saying that.
These are not simply stocks, they are more considered real estate funds. Investors pool their money together and managed by a certain bank with a specific investment policy."

These are not stocks, repeating for the 2nd time. Where your argument fails so badly, is the point, that you want to argue so much that you forgot to read other's posts. Your entire post is completely irrelevant to my posts. Do you think we are kindergarten students and will listen to those false opinions? Do you have an idea the difference between BTS stock and BTSGIF? Here, you are trying so hard to put down BTS stock when nobody is even defending it. What a failure, your ideas are nice, I'll give you the effort for that. But it's all completely against stocks and BTS in particular. Not btsgif. Even if bts goes bankrupt and gets abandoned like you have stated. The new company must pay BTSGIF, whether it be floating trains, or bullet trains, as long as it uses it's space and rights. See the difference and power now? I know your hard stance against investing, but I am so sorry for you, you came to the wrong place. OP asked for alternatives for income. Please return to work and earn salary, and spend your fixed deposits. Investing is very dangerous, it destroys the world, it is unreliable.

[JacChang]

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moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.
6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.
Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.
Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.
Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.
Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.
Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.
Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

There are a number of problems with this approach.

1. Several of the property funds you mention are based on long term rental, not ownership. In other words, the OPs family is not the owner of anything as you suggest. They are simply renting and subletting.
And where exactly is the problem? I really fail to see your point where this is a problem. They are called property funds, they are not stocks. Yes, last time I remember property funds revenue comes from long term rental and renting, thanks for clarifying, is that bad? Your statement of ownership is not exactly correct. The OPs family is indeed the owner through shares of the property funds, which is managed by a banking institution who hires a property manager to take care of the property business.
2. Property funds and REITs go up and down just like all other shares, although they are usually less volatile. Yet some of the funds you mention have gone up and down at least 20% over the last 2 years or so.
Same problem as the previous question, where's the problem? Property funds go up and down, because it's a free market. Do we need to start educating everyone, beware, egg prices may not be the same, oh no, taxi fares have gone up. I think this is pretty much common sense, not something you have point out. I fail to see where you have caught a problem honestly. Property funds go up and down, depending on the market demand for it, most of the time if not all, they move in opposite direction to stocks. When investors view negatively about the market and that their capital may decrease in the time ahead, they will sell stocks, and move to "safer high dividend" property funds. Same thing happens when investors are optimistic about the economy, the reason they move out of property funds is not because they view property funds negatively, but because they feel if they allocate the money to stocks, it may be more beneficial to them. So property funds have always been a mode of transportation, where investors get in and out. As for the OP's interest, we are not concerned about your fluctuations of 2 years or so, that is gambling. We are going to enjoy 30-50 years of dividends to come.
3. Even with property funds things change over time. They are dependent on someone renting what they have to offer, so competing cinemas, shopping malls, hotels etc. might steal the tenants over time, reducing the income and thereby value of the property fund. While some property funds on the SET are doing great, others are not, and noone can predict what the status is in 10 or 20 years.
Nice opinions and common sense refresher. There are good people and bad people in this world, there are good companies and bad companies, sometimes it rains sometimes it floods. News Flash. Everything changes, not just property funds. In this subject, we only discuss numbers. The financial numbers do not lie, we do not need useless theories. There are over 20 property funds in the SET. These recommended property funds are the top 5, and still performing well with rock solid numbers. Be realistic. If anyone were to believe your 3rd statement we would all be doomed and living under a shell. No one knows what will happen in 20 years, keep your money in the safe under the bed! Don't trust the banks, who knows what they will do to it. BTS skytrain will disappear in 5 years, there will be another train that flies. Central world will be taken over by Robinsons department. Sure... How about I'll keep buying the things I recommend, and we'll meet each other in 30 years. hehe
4. Property funds and REITs can be purchased both through brokers and banks. In either case alot of paperwork is needed to set it up, and as it involves information regarding the account owners knowledge regarding stocks, risk acceptance and economy, I doubt it can be inherited without doing it all over again.

My point is, investing directly in any stock, even property funds and REITs require some understanding of the stock market and the business you invest in.
As the OPs family likely has no knowledge in this field whatsoever, I suggested in a post above to simply buy mutual funds or similar directly from any local bank.

The advantages are:

1. Professionals from the bank will invest the OPs money on his behalf and maintain the investment as the years go by. The OP and his family therefore does not need to know anything about the individual stocks.
Sure, the bank can make bad decisions, but odds are they will do better than the OPs family.
Nice try. There are no true professionals, they are just students who graduate with a certain degree, requires a job, buys a suit, starts working. Isn't it funny? This "pro" investor investing your money for you and still requires to eat your money by % commissions, and still needs you to sign a paper that says, investing results in gain or loss and you can't blame him/her. It's like rubbing in your face. This "pro" is a poor guy, who lacks the knowledge and ability to earn money, he requires his job for his next meal or bowl of rice. Go ahead and ask him to show you his portfolio. I guarantee not over 100k. To add more insult to that, he doesn't hold any of the things he recommended to you hahaha.
I repeat, the "professionals" are one of the worst lying scums on the face of this planet, even worst than sales. When they receive your money, they start buying investments based on investment objective and allocation. They are forced to buy a certain percentage of the largest companies on the SET. Their portfolio looks something like this, 5% PTT, 4% ADVANC, 4% CPF, etc. If PTT does well this month, and the stock price goes up 10% because the company is performing well due to increase in revenue. Guess what happens to his portfolio? PTT becomes 5.5% He can't have that, he has banking regulations and investment objective. He is "forced" to sell PTT (a good company) back to 5%. Same thing happens when a stock is doing poorly, the professional is forced to buy more back to maintain that allocation. Understand now? Why when the SET drops a lot, we see retail selling and institution buying? Understand now? Why the technical chart bounces zig zag when moving? There is no guessing, we know the reasons. The more you know, the more control you have. There is no such thing as guessing or gambling.

2. Buying funds at the bank (or a broker), makes it alot easier to spread risk. As an example the OP can buy into funds that cover the whole world, or any part of it, not just Thailand. Or buy into a sector (banking, telecoms, infrastructure etc.) Instead of just 1 company.
That's what most failures use as an excuse. The true eye is able to choose which are the best and to buy them only. Those who lack the ability to do so, fears buying a bad apple, so decides to buy all apples ending up with good apples and bad apples, and patting himself on the back saying he hasn't failed completely.
3. Buying mutual funds require alot less paperwork than opening a trading account. And buying or selling funds can easily be done at the bank.
Once set up, it's all click click click. No paperwork. Nil. Too much excuses and negativity. Don't like this type of person on my team lol, give you a thousand reasons why a specific project can't be completed. instead of finding ways to accomplish and go forward.
The downside is that the bank charges a fee for taking care of the funds. I think it is usually around 1-2% a year.
The only fact I accept in this post.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer using a trading account myself, but if I knew nothing about the stock market, I would let a bank or broker do it for me.

Sorry I really have to counter most of your statements

You said the OPs family would be "owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies".
I then counter your statement, as many of the property funds only rent the land and buildings they invest in, and you then claim than owning shares in a property fund that rents land is the same as owning land. Well I bet the guy whose name is on the chanote will disagree :-)

Anyway, I see no point in you and me debating this, as we will clearly never agree on much. My comment was meant for the OP, and I am sure he can decide for himself which advise to take and which not to.

I am glad to hear that you only pick winning stocks and never lose. I think you may be the first investor in history to do that, so congratulations.
You should consider getting paid for that skill, as many of the big investment banks will pay millions of dollars for a guy who always pick winning stocks :-)

There is no benefit in arguing, but clearing facts is important. Not just randomly throwing out opinions.

"You said the OPs family would be "owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies".
I then counter your statement, as many of the property funds only rent the land and buildings they invest in, and you then claim than owning shares in a property fund that rents land is the same as owning land. Well I bet the guy whose name is on the chanote will disagree :-)"

I am clear of what I've said, and still stand behind it like an iron brick. Shareholders ARE "owners of land, space, and equipment.........".

You counter my statement, as funds only rent land and buildings? That's not a counter. It is what property funds do. Or do they open karaoke bars and massage bars to make income?

Then I claim "owning shares in a property fund.........." I still stand behind it, never looked back.

The guy whose name on the chanote? Wrong. Once the property fund has paid billions of baht for that property, it is no longer the companies' or somchai's land. It becomes under a juristic person which is aka the shareholders property divided into individual percentage shares, WHICH is then managed by the financial institution as a representative of ALL shareholders, who then HIRES a property manager to look after all the operations on the said land and equipment.

It's not just rent, sadly. Hopefully that clarifies your opinions.

Same with Tesco lotus fund, the fund buys all the land, parking, equipment from lotus, then reverses it as rent to Tesco lotus itself. If Tesco lotus goes bankrupt, the fund will simply apply for change in investment objective, and renames it as 7-11 fund, or makro fund, and starts renting that same land to the new businesses. Or they can close the fund, sell all the land, return all capital to shareholders. WIN WIN situation. Come out from your caves "investing is scary" people.

Edit:

"I am glad to hear that you only pick winning stocks and never lose. I think you may be the first investor in history to do that, so congratulations.
You should consider getting paid for that skill, as many of the big investment banks will pay millions of dollars for a guy who always pick winning stocks :-)"

Pat yourself on the back, it's called passion. When one has a passion, he goes after it without the need to be paid. I was barely 30 when I retired. I have made many friends who are like-minded, so I am not the first. Keep telling yourself if you need to feel better. I don't need it. There is nothing to be proud and brag about. My only wish is to help others who haven't reached this path, and provide information for them to achieve an easier life, and a life without the worry about money. Because money is an endless supply, just like tap water.

So I don't need a job like you have tried to provoked. A man can be the best chef in the world, and cook for his beloved ones only. Why does he need to work at a 5 star restaurant. Because he needs money? Sorry somchai, that's you. My group of friends? All living life like how it should be, not slaves to money. I know you tried to use your words to provoke by "guy who always pick winning stocks". But sorry, it is no surprise, it is not even a compliment. It's just a skill. If you learn all the things that can be taught, anyone can make money through investing. It's the idiots who are full of opinions and who fail in life and investing, continue to rant about it being so hard and dangerous. It's not. The problem lies in you, the individual. Would the world care how you scratch and crashed your car when you park? Then next day news, you complain how driving is dangerous.

Big investment banks need people like you, they will never find me. (Because I own those big banks)

Edited December 30, 2014 by JacChang

[monkeycountry]

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moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

There are a number of problems with this approach.

1. Several of the property funds you mention are based on long term rental, not ownership. In other words, the OPs family is not the owner of anything as you suggest. They are simply renting and subletting.

And where exactly is the problem? I really fail to see your point where this is a problem. They are called property funds, they are not stocks. Yes, last time I remember property funds revenue comes from long term rental and renting, thanks for clarifying, is that bad? Your statement of ownership is not exactly correct. The OPs family is indeed the owner through shares of the property funds, which is managed by a banking institution who hires a property manager to take care of the property business.

2. Property funds and REITs go up and down just like all other shares, although they are usually less volatile. Yet some of the funds you mention have gone up and down at least 20% over the last 2 years or so.

Same problem as the previous question, where's the problem? Property funds go up and down, because it's a free market. Do we need to start educating everyone, beware, egg prices may not be the same, oh no, taxi fares have gone up. I think this is pretty much common sense, not something you have point out. I fail to see where you have caught a problem honestly. Property funds go up and down, depending on the market demand for it, most of the time if not all, they move in opposite direction to stocks. When investors view negatively about the market and that their capital may decrease in the time ahead, they will sell stocks, and move to "safer high dividend" property funds. Same thing happens when investors are optimistic about the economy, the reason they move out of property funds is not because they view property funds negatively, but because they feel if they allocate the money to stocks, it may be more beneficial to them. So property funds have always been a mode of transportation, where investors get in and out. As for the OP's interest, we are not concerned about your fluctuations of 2 years or so, that is gambling. We are going to enjoy 30-50 years of dividends to come.

3. Even with property funds things change over time. They are dependent on someone renting what they have to offer, so competing cinemas, shopping malls, hotels etc. might steal the tenants over time, reducing the income and thereby value of the property fund. While some property funds on the SET are doing great, others are not, and noone can predict what the status is in 10 or 20 years.

Nice opinions and common sense refresher. There are good people and bad people in this world, there are good companies and bad companies, sometimes it rains sometimes it floods. News Flash. Everything changes, not just property funds. In this subject, we only discuss numbers. The financial numbers do not lie, we do not need useless theories. There are over 20 property funds in the SET. These recommended property funds are the top 5, and still performing well with rock solid numbers. Be realistic. If anyone were to believe your 3rd statement we would all be doomed and living under a shell. No one knows what will happen in 20 years, keep your money in the safe under the bed! Don't trust the banks, who knows what they will do to it. BTS skytrain will disappear in 5 years, there will be another train that flies. Central world will be taken over by Robinsons department. Sure... How about I'll keep buying the things I recommend, and we'll meet each other in 30 years. hehe

4. Property funds and REITs can be purchased both through brokers and banks. In either case alot of paperwork is needed to set it up, and as it involves information regarding the account owners knowledge regarding stocks, risk acceptance and economy, I doubt it can be inherited without doing it all over again.

My point is, investing directly in any stock, even property funds and REITs require some understanding of the stock market and the business you invest in.

As the OPs family likely has no knowledge in this field whatsoever, I suggested in a post above to simply buy mutual funds or similar directly from any local bank.

The advantages are:

1. Professionals from the bank will invest the OPs money on his behalf and maintain the investment as the years go by. The OP and his family therefore does not need to know anything about the individual stocks.

Sure, the bank can make bad decisions, but odds are they will do better than the OPs family.

Nice try. There are no true professionals, they are just students who graduate with a certain degree, requires a job, buys a suit, starts working. Isn't it funny? This "pro" investor investing your money for you and still requires to eat your money by % commissions, and still needs you to sign a paper that says, investing results in gain or loss and you can't blame him/her. It's like rubbing in your face. This "pro" is a poor guy, who lacks the knowledge and ability to earn money, he requires his job for his next meal or bowl of rice. Go ahead and ask him to show you his portfolio. I guarantee not over 100k. To add more insult to that, he doesn't hold any of the things he recommended to you hahaha.

I repeat, the "professionals" are one of the worst lying scums on the face of this planet, even worst than sales. When they receive your money, they start buying investments based on investment objective and allocation. They are forced to buy a certain percentage of the largest companies on the SET. Their portfolio looks something like this, 5% PTT, 4% ADVANC, 4% CPF, etc. If PTT does well this month, and the stock price goes up 10% because the company is performing well due to increase in revenue. Guess what happens to his portfolio? PTT becomes 5.5% He can't have that, he has banking regulations and investment objective. He is "forced" to sell PTT (a good company) back to 5%. Same thing happens when a stock is doing poorly, the professional is forced to buy more back to maintain that allocation. Understand now? Why when the SET drops a lot, we see retail selling and institution buying? Understand now? Why the technical chart bounces zig zag when moving? There is no guessing, we know the reasons. The more you know, the more control you have. There is no such thing as guessing or gambling.

2. Buying funds at the bank (or a broker), makes it alot easier to spread risk. As an example the OP can buy into funds that cover the whole world, or any part of it, not just Thailand. Or buy into a sector (banking, telecoms, infrastructure etc.) Instead of just 1 company.

That's what most failures use as an excuse. The true eye is able to choose which are the best and to buy them only. Those who lack the ability to do so, fears buying a bad apple, so decides to buy all apples ending up with good apples and bad apples, and patting himself on the back saying he hasn't failed completely.

3. Buying mutual funds require alot less paperwork than opening a trading account. And buying or selling funds can easily be done at the bank.

Once set up, it's all click click click. No paperwork. Nil. Too much excuses and negativity. Don't like this type of person on my team lol, give you a thousand reasons why a specific project can't be completed. instead of finding ways to accomplish and go forward.

The downside is that the bank charges a fee for taking care of the funds. I think it is usually around 1-2% a year.

The only fact I accept in this post.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer using a trading account myself, but if I knew nothing about the stock market, I would let a bank or broker do it for me.

Sorry I really have to counter most of your statements

You said the OPs family would be "owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies".

I then counter your statement, as many of the property funds only rent the land and buildings they invest in, and you then claim than owning shares in a property fund that rents land is the same as owning land. Well I bet the guy whose name is on the chanote will disagree :-)

Anyway, I see no point in you and me debating this, as we will clearly never agree on much. My comment was meant for the OP, and I am sure he can decide for himself which advise to take and which not to.

I am glad to hear that you only pick winning stocks and never lose. I think you may be the first investor in history to do that, so congratulations.

You should consider getting paid for that skill, as many of the big investment banks will pay millions of dollars for a guy who always pick winning stocks :-)

There is no benefit in arguing, but clearing facts is important. Not just randomly throwing out opinions.

"You said the OPs family would be "owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies".

I then counter your statement, as many of the property funds only rent the land and buildings they invest in, and you then claim than owning shares in a property fund that rents land is the same as owning land. Well I bet the guy whose name is on the chanote will disagree :-)"

I am clear of what I've said, and still stand behind it like an iron brick. Shareholders ARE "owners of land, space, and equipment.........".

You counter my statement, as funds only rent land and buildings? That's not a counter. It is what property funds do. Or do they open karaoke bars and massage bars to make income?

Then I claim "owning shares in a property fund.........." I still stand behind it, never looked back.

The guy whose name on the chanote? Wrong. Once the property fund has paid billions of baht for that property, it is no longer the companies' or somchai's land. It becomes under a juristic person which is aka the shareholders property divided into individual percentage shares, WHICH is then managed by the financial institution as a representative of ALL shareholders, who then HIRES a property manager to look after all the operations on the said land and equipment.

It's not just rent, sadly. Hopefully that clarifies your opinions.

Same with Tesco lotus fund, the fund buys all the land, parking, equipment from lotus, then reverses it as rent to Tesco lotus itself. If Tesco lotus goes bankrupt, the fund will simply apply for change in investment objective, and renames it as 7-11 fund, or makro fund, and starts renting that same land to the new businesses. Or they can close the fund, sell all the land, return all capital to shareholders. WIN WIN situation. Come out from your caves "investing is scary" people.

Edit:

"I am glad to hear that you only pick winning stocks and never lose. I think you may be the first investor in history to do that, so congratulations.

You should consider getting paid for that skill, as many of the big investment banks will pay millions of dollars for a guy who always pick winning stocks :-)"

Pat yourself on the back, it's called passion. When one has a passion, he goes after it without the need to be paid. I was barely 30 when I retired. I have made many friends who are like-minded, so I am not the first. Keep telling yourself if you need to feel better. I don't need it. There is nothing to be proud and brag about. My only wish is to help others who haven't reached this path, and provide information for them to achieve an easier life, and a life without the worry about money. Because money is an endless supply, just like tap water.

So I don't need a job like you have tried to provoked. A man can be the best chef in the world, and cook for his beloved ones only. Why does he need to work at a 5 star restaurant. Because he needs money? Sorry somchai, that's you. My group of friends? All living life like how it should be, not slaves to money. I know you tried to use your words to provoke by "guy who always pick winning stocks". But sorry, it is no surprise, it is not even a compliment. It's just a skill. If you learn all the things that can be taught, anyone can make money through investing. It's the idiots who are full of opinions and who fail in life and investing, continue to rant about it being so hard and dangerous. It's not. The problem lies in you, the individual. Would the world care how you scratch and crashed your car when you park? Then next day news, you complain how driving is dangerous.

Big investment banks need people like you, they will never find me. (Because I own those big banks)

Yes, as you said, most property funds RENT land and buildings. Hence if you buy shares in the property fund you own a share of that lease, but you do not own a share of the land itself, and one day the lease will expire. You can see in the balance sheet of the various property funds when the individual leases expire, and when they do, they are no longer an asset of the property fund.

Obviously it makes a big difference, especially long term, to the whole business concept whether the property fund owns the land or rents the land.

To the OP: investing in property funds is not a bad idea, but you should look elsewhere for advise regarding the details, and make sure you understand for yourself how it works, as certain people in this thread do not seem to understand the fundamentals of property funds etc. and therefore may end up unintentionally giving you wrong advise.

[monkeycountry]

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moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

There are a number of problems with this approach.

1. Several of the property funds you mention are based on long term rental, not ownership. In other words, the OPs family is not the owner of anything as you suggest. They are simply renting and subletting.

And where exactly is the problem? I really fail to see your point where this is a problem. They are called property funds, they are not stocks. Yes, last time I remember property funds revenue comes from long term rental and renting, thanks for clarifying, is that bad? Your statement of ownership is not exactly correct. The OPs family is indeed the owner through shares of the property funds, which is managed by a banking institution who hires a property manager to take care of the property business.

2. Property funds and REITs go up and down just like all other shares, although they are usually less volatile. Yet some of the funds you mention have gone up and down at least 20% over the last 2 years or so.

Same problem as the previous question, where's the problem? Property funds go up and down, because it's a free market. Do we need to start educating everyone, beware, egg prices may not be the same, oh no, taxi fares have gone up. I think this is pretty much common sense, not something you have point out. I fail to see where you have caught a problem honestly. Property funds go up and down, depending on the market demand for it, most of the time if not all, they move in opposite direction to stocks. When investors view negatively about the market and that their capital may decrease in the time ahead, they will sell stocks, and move to "safer high dividend" property funds. Same thing happens when investors are optimistic about the economy, the reason they move out of property funds is not because they view property funds negatively, but because they feel if they allocate the money to stocks, it may be more beneficial to them. So property funds have always been a mode of transportation, where investors get in and out. As for the OP's interest, we are not concerned about your fluctuations of 2 years or so, that is gambling. We are going to enjoy 30-50 years of dividends to come.

3. Even with property funds things change over time. They are dependent on someone renting what they have to offer, so competing cinemas, shopping malls, hotels etc. might steal the tenants over time, reducing the income and thereby value of the property fund. While some property funds on the SET are doing great, others are not, and noone can predict what the status is in 10 or 20 years.

Nice opinions and common sense refresher. There are good people and bad people in this world, there are good companies and bad companies, sometimes it rains sometimes it floods. News Flash. Everything changes, not just property funds. In this subject, we only discuss numbers. The financial numbers do not lie, we do not need useless theories. There are over 20 property funds in the SET. These recommended property funds are the top 5, and still performing well with rock solid numbers. Be realistic. If anyone were to believe your 3rd statement we would all be doomed and living under a shell. No one knows what will happen in 20 years, keep your money in the safe under the bed! Don't trust the banks, who knows what they will do to it. BTS skytrain will disappear in 5 years, there will be another train that flies. Central world will be taken over by Robinsons department. Sure... How about I'll keep buying the things I recommend, and we'll meet each other in 30 years. hehe

4. Property funds and REITs can be purchased both through brokers and banks. In either case alot of paperwork is needed to set it up, and as it involves information regarding the account owners knowledge regarding stocks, risk acceptance and economy, I doubt it can be inherited without doing it all over again.

My point is, investing directly in any stock, even property funds and REITs require some understanding of the stock market and the business you invest in.

As the OPs family likely has no knowledge in this field whatsoever, I suggested in a post above to simply buy mutual funds or similar directly from any local bank.

The advantages are:

1. Professionals from the bank will invest the OPs money on his behalf and maintain the investment as the years go by. The OP and his family therefore does not need to know anything about the individual stocks.

Sure, the bank can make bad decisions, but odds are they will do better than the OPs family.

Nice try. There are no true professionals, they are just students who graduate with a certain degree, requires a job, buys a suit, starts working. Isn't it funny? This "pro" investor investing your money for you and still requires to eat your money by % commissions, and still needs you to sign a paper that says, investing results in gain or loss and you can't blame him/her. It's like rubbing in your face. This "pro" is a poor guy, who lacks the knowledge and ability to earn money, he requires his job for his next meal or bowl of rice. Go ahead and ask him to show you his portfolio. I guarantee not over 100k. To add more insult to that, he doesn't hold any of the things he recommended to you hahaha.

I repeat, the "professionals" are one of the worst lying scums on the face of this planet, even worst than sales. When they receive your money, they start buying investments based on investment objective and allocation. They are forced to buy a certain percentage of the largest companies on the SET. Their portfolio looks something like this, 5% PTT, 4% ADVANC, 4% CPF, etc. If PTT does well this month, and the stock price goes up 10% because the company is performing well due to increase in revenue. Guess what happens to his portfolio? PTT becomes 5.5% He can't have that, he has banking regulations and investment objective. He is "forced" to sell PTT (a good company) back to 5%. Same thing happens when a stock is doing poorly, the professional is forced to buy more back to maintain that allocation. Understand now? Why when the SET drops a lot, we see retail selling and institution buying? Understand now? Why the technical chart bounces zig zag when moving? There is no guessing, we know the reasons. The more you know, the more control you have. There is no such thing as guessing or gambling.

2. Buying funds at the bank (or a broker), makes it alot easier to spread risk. As an example the OP can buy into funds that cover the whole world, or any part of it, not just Thailand. Or buy into a sector (banking, telecoms, infrastructure etc.) Instead of just 1 company.

That's what most failures use as an excuse. The true eye is able to choose which are the best and to buy them only. Those who lack the ability to do so, fears buying a bad apple, so decides to buy all apples ending up with good apples and bad apples, and patting himself on the back saying he hasn't failed completely.

3. Buying mutual funds require alot less paperwork than opening a trading account. And buying or selling funds can easily be done at the bank.

Once set up, it's all click click click. No paperwork. Nil. Too much excuses and negativity. Don't like this type of person on my team lol, give you a thousand reasons why a specific project can't be completed. instead of finding ways to accomplish and go forward.

The downside is that the bank charges a fee for taking care of the funds. I think it is usually around 1-2% a year.

The only fact I accept in this post.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer using a trading account myself, but if I knew nothing about the stock market, I would let a bank or broker do it for me.

Sorry I really have to counter most of your statements

You said the OPs family would be "owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies".

I then counter your statement, as many of the property funds only rent the land and buildings they invest in, and you then claim than owning shares in a property fund that rents land is the same as owning land. Well I bet the guy whose name is on the chanote will disagree :-)

Anyway, I see no point in you and me debating this, as we will clearly never agree on much. My comment was meant for the OP, and I am sure he can decide for himself which advise to take and which not to.

I am glad to hear that you only pick winning stocks and never lose. I think you may be the first investor in history to do that, so congratulations.

You should consider getting paid for that skill, as many of the big investment banks will pay millions of dollars for a guy who always pick winning stocks :-)

There is no benefit in arguing, but clearing facts is important. Not just randomly throwing out opinions.

"You said the OPs family would be "owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies".

I then counter your statement, as many of the property funds only rent the land and buildings they invest in, and you then claim than owning shares in a property fund that rents land is the same as owning land. Well I bet the guy whose name is on the chanote will disagree :-)"

I am clear of what I've said, and still stand behind it like an iron brick. Shareholders ARE "owners of land, space, and equipment.........".

You counter my statement, as funds only rent land and buildings? That's not a counter. It is what property funds do. Or do they open karaoke bars and massage bars to make income?

Then I claim "owning shares in a property fund.........." I still stand behind it, never looked back.

The guy whose name on the chanote? Wrong. Once the property fund has paid billions of baht for that property, it is no longer the companies' or somchai's land. It becomes under a juristic person which is aka the shareholders property divided into individual percentage shares, WHICH is then managed by the financial institution as a representative of ALL shareholders, who then HIRES a property manager to look after all the operations on the said land and equipment.

It's not just rent, sadly. Hopefully that clarifies your opinions.

Same with Tesco lotus fund, the fund buys all the land, parking, equipment from lotus, then reverses it as rent to Tesco lotus itself. If Tesco lotus goes bankrupt, the fund will simply apply for change in investment objective, and renames it as 7-11 fund, or makro fund, and starts renting that same land to the new businesses. Or they can close the fund, sell all the land, return all capital to shareholders. WIN WIN situation. Come out from your caves "investing is scary" people.

Edit:

"I am glad to hear that you only pick winning stocks and never lose. I think you may be the first investor in history to do that, so congratulations.

You should consider getting paid for that skill, as many of the big investment banks will pay millions of dollars for a guy who always pick winning stocks :-)"

Pat yourself on the back, it's called passion. When one has a passion, he goes after it without the need to be paid. I was barely 30 when I retired. I have made many friends who are like-minded, so I am not the first. Keep telling yourself if you need to feel better. I don't need it. There is nothing to be proud and brag about. My only wish is to help others who haven't reached this path, and provide information for them to achieve an easier life, and a life without the worry about money. Because money is an endless supply, just like tap water.

So I don't need a job like you have tried to provoked. A man can be the best chef in the world, and cook for his beloved ones only. Why does he need to work at a 5 star restaurant. Because he needs money? Sorry somchai, that's you. My group of friends? All living life like how it should be, not slaves to money. I know you tried to use your words to provoke by "guy who always pick winning stocks". But sorry, it is no surprise, it is not even a compliment. It's just a skill. If you learn all the things that can be taught, anyone can make money through investing. It's the idiots who are full of opinions and who fail in life and investing, continue to rant about it being so hard and dangerous. It's not. The problem lies in you, the individual. Would the world care how you scratch and crashed your car when you park? Then next day news, you complain how driving is dangerous.

Big investment banks need people like you, they will never find me. (Because I own those big banks)

Or maybe they will never find you because they aren't interested in you or your "skills"? :-)

[jpinx]

So much hot air. Everyone is very good at managing other people's money, but if they were actually as clever as they claim they would all be millionaires and not sitting posting on TV

Every stock, bond, fund, whatever has far too much risk for a family to rely on the income from it. For a long term arrangement for people who are financially inept but willing and capable of "normal" work, the least risk is something the family can actually work with -- rice paddies and/or a shop - and a recurring deposit account at the maximum rate possible with a government guaranteed bank. 5.5% is achievable after tax in some countries. Easy to open with one visit and thereafter manage by internet.

I really hope you stay away from flamboyant advice on stocks and bonds,,,,,,,,,,

[moonseeker]

So much hot air. Everyone is very good at managing other people's money, but if they were actually as clever as they claim they would all be millionaires and not sitting posting on TV

Every stock, bond, fund, whatever has far too much risk for a family to rely on the income from it. For a long term arrangement for people who are financially inept but willing and capable of "normal" work, the least risk is something the family can actually work with -- rice paddies and/or a shop - and a recurring deposit account at the maximum rate possible with a government guaranteed bank. 5.5% is achievable after tax in some countries. Easy to open with one visit and thereafter manage by internet.

I really hope you stay away from flamboyant advice on stocks and bonds,,,,,,,,,,

Thank you kindly. Fully agreed, without judging any posts. This is exactly the problem. DOB: 1980 mother, smart, hard working all her life, runs a real, rather big business for 2 friends completely independent for 10 years and very successful, but has no idea about managing fund, is NOT educated to be able to be doing anything totally different from now with the same success. Yes, I am checking into annuities and I would just love a simple fast solution as you mention. My days are so crazy at the moment, that I can only work on tablet in between scans etc. It will be another week until my people in Europe are back at work. Then hopefully we can make some progress. Little time left. Worst case, few mio. spread out in fixed deposits, a few rental studios and more strong advise not to touch the capital. OMG. Getting ddesperate Thank you all and Happy New Year. MS>

[fletchsmile]

moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

Jac

I like some of these as investments, but have you read thru the prospectuses - usually in Thai only. Some of these will not necessarily be around in the 30/40/50 years you mention, and at least not in the same format they are today. e.g. For some of the property ones in particular some of the return is via leases, so effectively a return on capital not pure income, with part of the initial investment capital amortised

While I like some of them. They aren't tuck away and forget about investments, and not 30 - 50 years.

Cheers

Fletch

[fletchsmile]

I have to say having read your OP moonseeker, there's a whole host of other info that I think anyone would need to help you out properly. The urgency in particular and understanding of your current situation in many aspects - not just health, but tax, financial etc would make me reluctant to give anything close to specific advice.

Some general suggestions though:

You mention wanting 90k a quarter or 360k a year on 12mio, i.e 3% annual return, without being around to be involved, and that this has to be something that can be set up and left long term. Straight away that makes life difficult, with the absence of trust law here in Thailand, and to be honest on the amounts involved even back in Europe on that sort of amount wouldn't necessarily be cost effective and a sensible option to set up a trust.

Finding someone you trust to manage the money is a good way, but not easy. Even with the best intentions there's a lot that can go wrong.

Some suggestions on products that might be useful:

1) A whole of life insurance policy on the lady. You can invest a lump sum, and receive around 4% p.a. with payouts up to around around age 80. Personally I don't like these as I feel I can achieve better value for money and better returns elsewhere. However, if you're not going to be around, the lower return than you or I might achieve is compensated by simplicity. A case of the product fitting the objective. The disadvantage is no capital growth, but its advantages are simplicity, low risk, secure and certainty/you know what you're getting.

2) A Thai equity based unit trust/ mutual fund that invests in Thai equities. The yield on the SET usually averages around 3% - 4% per year and should provide some capital growth . It is all THB denominated. While the capital will fluctuate quite a lot, 3% - 4% annual dividend and never touching the capital (i,e. ignoring fluctuations) would be fine. I would prefer a unit trust in your case as there will be a fund manager (+custodian + trustee) to ensure the investment will continue. Individual stocks, even REITs which I like, come and go. Thai equities will be there be there in one form or other for the next 50 years or so, and you don't have to worry about individual investments. If a fund gets taken over, usually there is an option to simply convert into another fund of similar approach. This is not the case for individual stocks, REITs etc

Krungrsi run a good dividend fund

TMB run a dividend fund which simply tracks the SET

If you pick more than one you could spread the dividend dates. A big advantage is the potential for capital growth and keeping away inflation.

3) There's a relatively new fund from Krungsri based on JPM's Global Income fund I wrote about here. It is a good mix of various asset classes again under a good fund manager. It covers global equities, bonds, REITs all in a single fund. The way you get your return is auto-redeeming units. So if you need 3% you could set it up to take 3% of your units for the next 33 years. Advantages are that the units should have some capital growth, it is very well diversified and should keep inflation at bay.

While 33 years will only take the last into early 60's before gone, it should be increasing income. Also don't forget, that for most people day to day living expenses will go down as you get past 60 as you are no longer active. Plus the kids will be financially independent. Medical bills go up though. So wouldn't be suitable for all, but perhaps part of the money. Minimum invest is THB 501k

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/640408-set-index-and-thai-mutual-funds/page-18

4) An annuity from your home country. While this has FX risk, it is a guaranteed income stream. It could be set with increasing payments rather than simple level payments. Wouldn't want all of the money here, because of the exchange rate risk, but it is a guaranteed, untouchable return that couldn't be cashed in and wasted, even if it is the "wrong" currency

None of the above are perfect. There never really is a perfect answer. More so if you're not around to watch over

A combination of some/all of the above, splitting your money between them would be a reasonable approach. Although each has advantages and disadvantages, all are investments you could set up and leave, and combined could come close. None are particularly difficult to set up, and a good chance of surviving the long term without any additional maintenance.

Not putting all your eggs in one basket is something to seriously consider, which is why the 4 investments above are quite different in nature.

Saw your other post on keeping 4mio in cash. For liquidity and emergency money. Also makes sense.

Cheers

Fletch

Edited January 1, 2015 by fletchsmile

[moonseeker]

I have to say having read your OP moonseeker, there's a whole host of other info that I think anyone would need to help you out properly. The urgency in particular and understanding of your current situation in many aspects - not just health, but tax, financial etc would make me reluctant to give anything close to specific advice.

Some general suggestions though:

You mention wanting 90k a quarter or 360k a year on 12mio, i.e 3% annual return, without being around to be involved, and that this has to be something that can be set up and left long term. Straight away that makes life difficult, with the absence of trust law here in Thailand, and to be honest on the amounts involved even back in Europe on that sort of amount wouldn't necessarily be cost effective and a sensible option to set up a trust.

Finding someone you trust to manage the money is a good way, but not easy. Even with the best intentions there's a lot that can go wrong.

Some suggestions on products that might be useful:

1) A whole of life insurance policy on the lady. You can invest a lump sum, and receive around 4% p.a. with payouts up to around around age 80. Personally I don't like these as I feel I can achieve better value for money and better returns elsewhere. However, if you're not going to be around, the lower return than you or I might achieve is compensated by simplicity. A case of the product fitting the objective. The disadvantage is no capital growth, but its advantages are simplicity, low risk, secure and certainty/you know what you're getting.

2) A Thai equity based unit trust/ mutual fund that invests in Thai equities. The yield on the SET usually averages around 3% - 4% per year and should provide some capital growth . It is all THB denominated. While the capital will fluctuate quite a lot, 3% - 4% annual dividend and never touching the capital (i,e. ignoring fluctuations) would be fine. I would prefer a unit trust in your case as there will be a fund manager (+custodian + trustee) to ensure the investment will continue. Individual stocks, even REITs which I like, come and go. Thai equities will be there be there in one form or other for the next 50 years or so, and you don't have to worry about individual investments. If a fund gets taken over, usually there is an option to simply convert into another fund of similar approach. This is not the case for individual stocks, REITs etc

Krungrsi run a good dividend fund

TMB run a dividend fund which simply tracks the SET

If you pick more than one you could spread the dividend dates. A big advantage is the potential for capital growth and keeping away inflation.

3) There's a relatively new fund from Krungsri based on JPM's Global Income fund I wrote about here. It is a good mix of various asset classes again under a good fund manager. It covers global equities, bonds, REITs all in a single fund. The way you get your return is auto-redeeming units. So if you need 3% you could set it up to take 3% of your units for the next 33 years. Advantages are that the units should have some capital growth, it is very well diversified and should keep inflation at bay.

While 33 years will only take the last into early 60's before gone, it should be increasing income. Also don't forget, that for most people day to day living expenses will go down as you get past 60 as you are no longer active. Plus the kids will be financially independent. Medical bills go up though. So wouldn't be suitable for all, but perhaps part of the money. Minimum invest is THB 501k

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/640408-set-index-and-thai-mutual-funds/page-18

4) An annuity from your home country. While this has FX risk, it is a guaranteed income stream. It could be set with increasing payments rather than simple level payments. Wouldn't want all of the money here, because of the exchange rate risk, but it is a guaranteed, untouchable return that couldn't be cashed in and wasted, even if it is the "wrong" currency

None of the above are perfect. There never really is a perfect answer. More so if you're not around to watch over

A combination of some/all of the above, splitting your money between them would be a reasonable approach. Although each has advantages and disadvantages, all are investments you could set up and leave, and combined could come close. None are particularly difficult to set up, and a good chance of surviving the long term without any additional maintenance.

Not putting all your eggs in one basket is something to seriously consider, which is why the 4 investments above are quite different in nature.

Saw your other post on keeping 4mio in cash. For liquidity and emergency money. Also makes sense.

Cheers

Fletch

Thank you Fletch for your sensible and extensive advise. I am waiting for quotes for immediate annuities from Europe & HongKong. Yes, that would be a safe and steady solution. I also wait for a solution via my brother & our long-term investment banker. They might have another way. My cash here is enough to last to the end and pay out plenty to family and friends. I want do this before it is all over. The future income set-up will be paid from Europe. I could do a 3-5 yr. deferred annuity, as I also have regular pay-backs of high loans coming which will be received by family for a few years. The good point is, I have a brother who hopefully is going to be around much longer and can arrange if I can't in time.

May I ask you. From the 4-5 Mio cash intended to leave here, any concrete advise how to set this up in very simple way for her, like fixed deposits or such, that she can renew every yr. or so...I think, leaving 1 Mio available for withdrawals is enough, as she still earns good salaries and income and will have steady flow from abroad. What bank? What product? I must admit I have no clue about this here and the C is already affecting me badly. Really have to concentrate to get things done. But I won't leave until things are reasonably in order...;-) Thank you very, very much, to everybody. MS>

[fletchsmile]

The problem with bank interest and savings accounts is the best accounts continually change and are generally special or promotional accounts. So you cant just pick oneand leave it. Even on automatic rollover.

You can check out the pinned thread for interest rates for an idea of how it changes.

On a slightly differently level it's not always good to set people up permanently so they dont have to do anything. Most of us appreciate something more if we have earned it or worked for it.

So in many ways taking care of your lady's basics is fine. But she still needs to take some responsibility for her own life to fully appreciate it.

The analogy between giving someone a fishing rod and teaching them to fish vs giving them fish. Providing an indefinite supply of fish isnt the ideal answerin the sceme of things.

So if you could encourage further education might also be useful.

Whatever you do. You wil have helped and she's better off by your kind actions. So dont worry about it being perfect.

Best wishes

Cheers

Fletch

[moonseeker]

The problem with bank interest and savings accounts is the best accounts continually change and are generally special or promotional accounts. So you cant just pick oneand leave it. Even on automatic rollover.

You can check out the pinned thread for interest rates for an idea of how it changes.

On a slightly differently level it's not always good to set people up permanently so they dont have to do anything. Most of us appreciate something more if we have earned it or worked for it.

So in many ways taking care of your lady's basics is fine. But she still needs to take some responsibility for her own life to fully appreciate it.

The analogy between giving someone a fishing rod and teaching them to fish vs giving them fish. Providing an indefinite supply of fish isnt the ideal answerin the sceme of things.

So if you could encourage further education might also be useful.

Whatever you do. You wil have helped and she's better off by your kind actions. So dont worry about it being perfect.

Best wishes

Cheers

Fletch

[moonseeker]

The problem with bank interest and savings accounts is the best accounts continually change and are generally special or promotional accounts. So you cant just pick oneand leave it. Even on automatic rollover.

You can check out the pinned thread for interest rates for an idea of how it changes.

On a slightly differently level it's not always good to set people up permanently so they dont have to do anything. Most of us appreciate something more if we have earned it or worked for it.

So in many ways taking care of your lady's basics is fine. But she still needs to take some responsibility for her own life to fully appreciate it.

The analogy between giving someone a fishing rod and teaching them to fish vs giving them fish. Providing an indefinite supply of fish isnt the ideal answerin the sceme of things.

So if you could encourage further education might also be useful.

Whatever you do. You wil have helped and she's better off by your kind actions. So dont worry about it being perfect.

Best wishes

Cheers

Fletch

Wow, you are along my ideas and very nice. Thx. I forget you can't know the background. I have fully supported that girl, never financially, but by training and educating her and she is a very successful and well known manager. At this point I can't mention. She will continue working, but I want her to cut down, she does 8 years, nonstop..Time for life, too. You are right, she will "grow" through all this. I hope. I will go to a bank with her and set it up simple and she can use advise of our educated and friend lady accountant before any changes. I warn her daily about traps and loaning money etc. Thank you very much. Days, I never expected to happen so soon. MS>

[JacChang]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

Jac

I like some of these as investments, but have you read thru the prospectuses - usually in Thai only. Some of these will not necessarily be around in the 30/40/50 years you mention, and at least not in the same format they are today. e.g. For some of the property ones in particular some of the return is via leases, so effectively a return on capital not pure income, with part of the initial investment capital amortised

While I like some of them. They aren't tuck away and forget about investments, and not 30 - 50 years.

Cheers

Fletch

Hello Fletch! Being a while since we chatted. =)

Most of them are in Thai, and I even tried to email the managers, but no reply, not surprised. But there are some bits of sources I have decoded over the years. Generally these funds have given leasehold rights, which is usually 25-30ish+ years for each contract. And when they do expire, they can either be renewed or ended. If renewed, the capital will be used again to hold those land and continue collecting revenue. If ended, like you said, it will be returned in the form of capital return. Half of my holdings now on REITS, are returning capital by about 2-3% per year. And some are ambitious, they even issue new shares, so they could acquire more shopping malls or warehouses. Through these years, I am very satisfied with this as an alternative investment. It is well over more than my stock shares now, as I see it as the middle ground between fixed deposits and stocks. The solid thing I like about them is, their revenues are constant, no surprises. So we wouldn't get any major price upgrades or downgrades, and I get information on the monthly nav, instead of waiting for quarterly results. Gives me an eagle eye vision if things should go wrong, I'm the first one out, the one who pulled the prices down. Like goldpf and ctaraf, hotels in Thailand. Was happily receiving 7% divs, and suddenly the monthly nav was flat, ain't keeping it.

[fletchsmile]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

Jac

I like some of these as investments, but have you read thru the prospectuses - usually in Thai only. Some of these will not necessarily be around in the 30/40/50 years you mention, and at least not in the same format they are today. e.g. For some of the property ones in particular some of the return is via leases, so effectively a return on capital not pure income, with part of the initial investment capital amortised

While I like some of them. They aren't tuck away and forget about investments, and not 30 - 50 years.

Cheers

Fletch

Hello Fletch! Being a while since we chatted. =)

Most of them are in Thai, and I even tried to email the managers, but no reply, not surprised. But there are some bits of sources I have decoded over the years. Generally these funds have given leasehold rights, which is usually 25-30ish+ years for each contract. And when they do expire, they can either be renewed or ended. If renewed, the capital will be used again to hold those land and continue collecting revenue. If ended, like you said, it will be returned in the form of capital return. Half of my holdings now on REITS, are returning capital by about 2-3% per year. And some are ambitious, they even issue new shares, so they could acquire more shopping malls or warehouses. Through these years, I am very satisfied with this as an alternative investment. It is well over more than my stock shares now, as I see it as the middle ground between fixed deposits and stocks. The solid thing I like about them is, their revenues are constant, no surprises. So we wouldn't get any major price upgrades or downgrades, and I get information on the monthly nav, instead of waiting for quarterly results. Gives me an eagle eye vision if things should go wrong, I'm the first one out, the one who pulled the prices down. Like goldpf and ctaraf, hotels in Thailand. Was happily receiving 7% divs, and suddenly the monthly nav was flat, ain't keeping it.

HI Jac

Yes think you sum up well. I do like REITs and they can be a useful investment. Even though low maintenance they do need monitoring for the reasons above. In OPs case his lady could be stuck with a future investment decision if they are wound up or something changes in the nature of the trust. As you say they can sometimes look to add new shopping malls, warehouses etc, and raise additional equity, but some of them also do by leverage or debt, which again needs monitoring. While I know you'd be on top of it, I'd worry a little at OP's lady overseeing it, and making the right decisions if and when things change.

For REITs, I generally prefer Singapore. 6% income yields are available tax free. On the downside, there's exchange rate risk if someone believes THB is the important currency to measure income and capital, so I wouldn't recommend for OP for that and the need to keep on top of them. A key advantage vs Thai REITs is the corporate governance environment is much stronger, they're better regulated and more transparent in getting more decent info you want. Horses for courses though, and both have their merits.

As interest rates rise, I'll also be monitoring the impact, and other alternatives.

Cheers

Fletch

[JacChang]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

moonseeker, this is a very dangerous topic to be discussing here. Make sure you filter out the noises in the thread and take advices with deep thoughts and considerations.

After reading your post, I suggest you not buy them a house, and do not give them a large sum of money. People without financial knowledge will not have the capability to maintain and manage large sums of money. It will be easily used up in a matter of months of years.

With your suggested sum of 12 million. May I suggest to you the following solution.

6 funds, available through stock brokerage purchase, not through banks. You simply mail the required documents to one of the stock brokers in Thailand, recommended are MBKET, and etc. Once your account is opened, you can move your funds into that stock account, and purchase the funds I recommend to you personally.

TRUEIF - 6% Dividend per year TAX FREE - True internet's telecommunications grid, the income will be from renting off of towers and equipments to companies in Thailand, and these have a long 5-30 years contract. You do not need to worry about fluctuations, the revenue is fixed already for years to come.

BTSGIF - 6.2% Dividend - Bangkok's skytrain, dividends fluctuate according to ridership. Prices are regularly increased at a faster rate than inflation.

CPNCG - 7.4% Dividend - Central World Offices

TLGF - 5.3% Dividend - Tesco Lotus Retail Markets, collects rent.

MJLF - 7.7% Dividend - Major Cineplex Space Rent

CPNRF - 6.7% Dividend - Central Department Stores Rent

With your 12 million, put 2 million into a money market savings mutual fund. You can open a bank account with Kbank, and set up online mutual fund purchasing. k-MPLUS, it gives you 2.2% per year, anytime you decide to sell, ALL the cash is immediately available to you the next morning before 10am. This fund only goes up, never down, no fluctuations.

Put 3 million into any insurances you deem necessary as suggested by other members here.

Now you have 7 million left, this is the REAL SOLUTION you want.

Put 2.5 million in BTSGIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 2.5 million in TRUEIF = Receive 150,000 per year.

Put 1 million in TLGF = Receive 53,000 per year.

Remaining 1 million in the CPNCG, CPNRF, MJLF = Receive 70,000 per year.

Total dividends received per year 423,000 THB

Dividends are usually paid 4 times a year, the money goes DIRECTLY into your bank account with no actions on our part. The bank account will receive 100,000 every 3 months. Make an atm card for this bank account, and let the mom withdraw it to use accordingly.

Your family will be able to enjoy this money for many years to come, be it 30 years, 40 years or 50 years. They do not have to sell the stock, or to understand it. They are owners of land, space, and equipment, and will be paid rent for those items by other companies.

I hope my personal advice will be of help to you and your situation of distress.

Do not trust bankers, and do not get financial advice of any "professional". They are out there to earn your money or to receive commissions if they succeed in selling your product. I have been there and done that, and own those things I have recommended to you, and I do not care if there are others out there who would like to say otherwise. The stock funds recommended to you have also been strategically suited for you to reduce the risk, with BTSGIF and TRUEIF being the most rock solid, having the most proportion.

-Retired investor

Jac

I like some of these as investments, but have you read thru the prospectuses - usually in Thai only. Some of these will not necessarily be around in the 30/40/50 years you mention, and at least not in the same format they are today. e.g. For some of the property ones in particular some of the return is via leases, so effectively a return on capital not pure income, with part of the initial investment capital amortised

While I like some of them. They aren't tuck away and forget about investments, and not 30 - 50 years.

Cheers

Fletch

Hello Fletch! Being a while since we chatted. =)

Most of them are in Thai, and I even tried to email the managers, but no reply, not surprised. But there are some bits of sources I have decoded over the years. Generally these funds have given leasehold rights, which is usually 25-30ish+ years for each contract. And when they do expire, they can either be renewed or ended. If renewed, the capital will be used again to hold those land and continue collecting revenue. If ended, like you said, it will be returned in the form of capital return. Half of my holdings now on REITS, are returning capital by about 2-3% per year. And some are ambitious, they even issue new shares, so they could acquire more shopping malls or warehouses. Through these years, I am very satisfied with this as an alternative investment. It is well over more than my stock shares now, as I see it as the middle ground between fixed deposits and stocks. The solid thing I like about them is, their revenues are constant, no surprises. So we wouldn't get any major price upgrades or downgrades, and I get information on the monthly nav, instead of waiting for quarterly results. Gives me an eagle eye vision if things should go wrong, I'm the first one out, the one who pulled the prices down. Like goldpf and ctaraf, hotels in Thailand. Was happily receiving 7% divs, and suddenly the monthly nav was flat, ain't keeping it.

HI Jac

Yes think you sum up well. I do like REITs and they can be a useful investment. Even though low maintenance they do need monitoring for the reasons above. In OPs case his lady could be stuck with a future investment decision if they are wound up or something changes in the nature of the trust. As you say they can sometimes look to add new shopping malls, warehouses etc, and raise additional equity, but some of them also do by leverage or debt, which again needs monitoring. While I know you'd be on top of it, I'd worry a little at OP's lady overseeing it, and making the right decisions if and when things change.

For REITs, I generally prefer Singapore. 6% income yields are available tax free. On the downside, there's exchange rate risk if someone believes THB is the important currency to measure income and capital, so I wouldn't recommend for OP for that and the need to keep on top of them. A key advantage vs Thai REITs is the corporate governance environment is much stronger, they're better regulated and more transparent in getting more decent info you want. Horses for courses though, and both have their merits.

As interest rates rise, I'll also be monitoring the impact, and other alternatives.

Cheers

Fletch

Fletch!

You got me interested =)

Do you mind providing me with more information about the Singapore investment you mentioned? Either through here or private message is fine too. And are foreigners allowed or only local residents. I would definitely consider Singapore, and South Korea is the next on my list too. I would really appreciate it if you could share some details as to how to get this investment.

Thanks!