Down low mirrors

[papa al]

I've seen this style of mirror on cafe racers and other bikes.

They look cool but do they provide good visibility?

Edited December 28, 2014 by papa al

[hansgruber]

Not really.

It requires you to take your eyes further off the road which isn't exactly the best thing.

They place stock mirrors higher than the handle bars for a reason.

Cool yes, safe no.

[seedy]

I would LOVE a HUD integrated into the visor, universal mounting, waterproof, and affordable.

Agree with hansgruber above - taking your eyes off the road, even for a split second, is to invite disaster.

60 mph = 88 fps, or 100 kph = 28 MPs

Lot can happen in that time

[jb525]

Would save mirror to mirror contact with baht busses.

[Shurup]

Look gay!

[AllanB]

I would LOVE a HUD integrated into the visor, universal mounting, waterproof, and affordable.

Agree with hansgruber above - taking your eyes off the road, even for a split second, is to invite disaster.

60 mph = 88 fps, or 100 kph = 28 MPs

Lot can happen in that time

No, I don't go along with that, we have been managing with mirrors for decades now, accidents occur when people are not concentrating, or riding too fast. It takes no longer to look at a mirror, if the mirrors are set correctly, requiring no head movement and both take more than a split second anyway.

Which brings me to a problem with standard mirrors on Thai bikes used by farangs. Every bike I have ridden here, the mirrors are set too close, so 60% of what I see are my own shoulders. So what is needed is mirror extensions, as I guess we have broader shoulders, haven't seen any so far.

[hansgruber]

I would LOVE a HUD integrated into the visor, universal mounting, waterproof, and affordable.

Agree with hansgruber above - taking your eyes off the road, even for a split second, is to invite disaster.

60 mph = 88 fps, or 100 kph = 28 MPs

Lot can happen in that time

No, I don't go along with that, we have been managing with mirrors for decades now, accidents occur when people are not concentrating, or riding too fast. It takes no longer to look at a mirror, if the mirrors are set correctly, requiring no head movement and both take more than a split second anyway.

Which brings me to a problem with standard mirrors on Thai bikes used by farangs. Every bike I have ridden here, the mirrors are set too close, so 60% of what I see are my own shoulders. So what is needed is mirror extensions, as I guess we have broader shoulders, haven't seen any so far.

Having mirrors that low requires a lot of head movement.

You're basically looking down at the road with the ones pictured above.

I agree with you mirrors being too close on scooters. I had mine heated and bent to take my shoulders out of site.

Mirrors are high above the handlebars so your head stays straight and the movement of your eyes are all that required which is much safer.

[DualSportBiker]

I would LOVE a HUD integrated into the visor, universal mounting, waterproof, and affordable.

Agree with hansgruber above - taking your eyes off the road, even for a split second, is to invite disaster.

60 mph = 88 fps, or 100 kph = 28 MPs

Lot can happen in that time

No, I don't go along with that, we have been managing with mirrors for decades now, accidents occur when people are not concentrating, or riding too fast. It takes no longer to look at a mirror, if the mirrors are set correctly, requiring no head movement and both take more than a split second anyway.

Which brings me to a problem with standard mirrors on Thai bikes used by farangs. Every bike I have ridden here, the mirrors are set too close, so 60% of what I see are my own shoulders. So what is needed is mirror extensions, as I guess we have broader shoulders, haven't seen any so far.

There is a HUD in a helmet available now, and some virtual mirrors using cameras - pretty sure one if not both were discussed in detail in this forum. The primary issue with mirrors is that you need to refocus; this HUD is set so it is readable with your eyes focused on normal riding distance. This removes almost a second from the process of looking at mirror, focusing, registering what is in your mirror...

I would be interested to know which takes longer, looking to the mirror, or refocusing. Anyone know? Age will be a factor - eye muscles slow and weaken with age.

The fact that we have managed is almost irrelevant; improvements happen and change is inevitable. The first HUD may not hit the mark, but it won't take long before one does. I look forward to taking less time to check my mirrors and blind-spot before I execute some manoeuvre...

[AllanB]

I would LOVE a HUD integrated into the visor, universal mounting, waterproof, and affordable.

Agree with hansgruber above - taking your eyes off the road, even for a split second, is to invite disaster.

60 mph = 88 fps, or 100 kph = 28 MPs

Lot can happen in that time

No, I don't go along with that, we have been managing with mirrors for decades now, accidents occur when people are not concentrating, or riding too fast. It takes no longer to look at a mirror, if the mirrors are set correctly, requiring no head movement and both take more than a split second anyway.

Which brings me to a problem with standard mirrors on Thai bikes used by farangs. Every bike I have ridden here, the mirrors are set too close, so 60% of what I see are my own shoulders. So what is needed is mirror extensions, as I guess we have broader shoulders, haven't seen any so far.

There is a HUD in a helmet available now, and some virtual mirrors using cameras - pretty sure one if not both were discussed in detail in this forum. The primary issue with mirrors is that you need to refocus; this HUD is set so it is readable with your eyes focused on normal riding distance. This removes almost a second from the process of looking at mirror, focusing, registering what is in your mirror...

I would be interested to know which takes longer, looking to the mirror, or refocusing. Anyone know? Age will be a factor - eye muscles slow and weaken with age.

The fact that we have managed is almost irrelevant; improvements happen and change is inevitable. The first HUD may not hit the mark, but it won't take long before one does. I look forward to taking less time to check my mirrors and blind-spot before I execute some manoeuvre...

What nonsense the focal point is the object you are looking at not the mirror itself, that merely changes the direction of the light, so refocusing is unnecessary. But in any case do you you really think it takes a second to refocus your eye, if it does you shouldn't be riding a bike. Rear view cameras are only really useful for reversing and not many bikes are fitted with reverse.

Hansgruber, I was not saying the low mirrors are a good idea, as you would indeed need to move your head, merely that standard mirrors are best as you could also move your head in relationship to the mirror and extend you field of vision if need be, if is fixed to you head you can't.

So another one of these gimmicks if you ask me, all that is needed is longer stems and decent sized mirrors.

[papa al]

I have HUD in my F-16, but not my Ceeber.

5 5.

Good commentary all.

(Shurup....)

[Daffy D]

Why not solve the problem by taking the mirrors off altogether - like those really cool boy racers

[Briggsy]

Why not solve the problem by taking the mirrors off altogether - like those really cool boy racers

Security guard at one firm I was working at, "Oh that's good, you've added mirrors."

Straight up.

[AllanB]

Nowhere I have ridden or driven are good mirrors more important than here in Thailand, with their position and scope being real life savers, from being hit up the arse.

I must admit I have been riding here for 7 years with less than perfect mirrors, my shoulders being the problem. As a result in order to get a good look behind me I need to move my body a little, so I need to fix this. With no adapters available it will out with the steel bar and dies.

Maybe the Mods had the right idea......

Edited December 29, 2014 by AllanB

[Hog Head]

Bar end mirrors are deriguer on cafe style bikes, however I prefer them to be on the up side of the bars rather than under mounted as shown.

There is also a version that mounts straight out the bar end and gets away from the shoulder view. They need to be fold away for Thai in traffic style lane splitting

I just bought some for my HD cafe project

I see some local Harley riders simply flipping their stock mirrors upside down the give the same look at zero cost, but I find the undermount to be too difficult to use safely. Each to his own and I am sure that the cool factor has a lot to do with it.

[dave_boo]

The CB500X has some pretty good mirrors. I'm not the smallest guy on the forum and when I set them up I get the outside 1" of my shoulders and the rest is what's behind me....

[AllanB]

The CB500X has some pretty good mirrors. I'm not the smallest guy on the forum and when I set them up I get the outside 1" of my shoulders and the rest is what's behind me....

They sound good, will take a look, thanks, are they the widest part of the bike?

I didn't know Cafe Racers had mirrors, that only adds weight which is counterproductive to the cause. Besides if you are doing a ton in London what the hell do you need mirrors for, no one is going to catch you let alone rear end you. The guys who raced the 45 weren't too worried about safety anyway, so no, mirrors are a big no no.

[dave_boo]

The CB500X has some pretty good mirrors. I'm not the smallest guy on the forum and when I set them up I get the outside 1" of my shoulders and the rest is what's behind me....

They sound good, will take a look, thanks, are they the widest part of the bike?

I didn't know Cafe Racers had mirrors, that only adds weight which is counterproductive to the cause. Besides if you are doing a ton in London what the hell do you need mirrors for, no one is going to catch you let alone rear end you. The guys who raced the 45 weren't too worried about safety anyway, so no, mirrors are a big no no.

Nope...the Barkbusters installed end up being the widest part up front. When I have the panniers on, they're still more narrow than the handlebars, but I need to be mindful filtering as I can't always catch those sharp corners I can with them off.

[Gsxrnz]

The CB500X has some pretty good mirrors. I'm not the smallest guy on the forum and when I set them up I get the outside 1" of my shoulders and the rest is what's behind me....

They sound good, will take a look, thanks, are they the widest part of the bike?

I didn't know Cafe Racers had mirrors, that only adds weight which is counterproductive to the cause. Besides if you are doing a ton in London what the hell do you need mirrors for, no one is going to catch you let alone rear end you. The guys who raced the 45 weren't too worried about safety anyway, so no, mirrors are a big no no.

The same applies in Vietnam where 99% of scooters don't have mirrors. I asked the hotel concierge the reason for this - his answer was "in Vietnam always something behind you, why you want look at it?"

On topic, mirrors mounted under the bars/clip-ons are a waste of time, as are the ones extending from the bar ends. Sure they look cool on a café project (despite the face they aren't required as Allan points out), but they're difficult to use and the first thing to get busted when you tip it over. I've done a few café projects and I can attest to this fact from experience.

It's easy to adjust the mirrors on scooters so you get the best field of view. Don't just adjust the mirror end itself, actually move the stem attached to the bars/grip mounts forwards or backwards to get the best possible angle of view. Depending on your height and seating position, these can be varied greatly for better vision. However, I see many mirrors pointing at the sky or are 30 degrees off where they should be, in which case you're not going to see much of anything behind you anyway.

On a side note, whether you ride a scooter or a GSX-R1000, adjusting things like mirror positions, throttle cable free-play, gear lever angles, brake/clutch lever angles and free-play, footpeg position and handlebar positions are critical to riding safely. But most riders just jump on and go. We get in cars and adjust the seat, mirrors, and steering wheel angle automatically, but we ignore the same on a bike - I don't get it.

[AllanB]

The CB500X has some pretty good mirrors. I'm not the smallest guy on the forum and when I set them up I get the outside 1" of my shoulders and the rest is what's behind me....

They sound good, will take a look, thanks, are they the widest part of the bike?

I didn't know Cafe Racers had mirrors, that only adds weight which is counterproductive to the cause. Besides if you are doing a ton in London what the hell do you need mirrors for, no one is going to catch you let alone rear end you. The guys who raced the 45 weren't too worried about safety anyway, so no, mirrors are a big no no.

Nope...the Barkbusters installed end up being the widest part up front. When I have the panniers on, they're still more narrow than the handlebars, but I need to be mindful filtering as I can't always catch those sharp corners I can with them off.

Wider than the bike, yes that is the only solution and now they must be higher that truck mirrors too, the widest part of a truck. With that done weaving through traffic will be a lot easier...until you meet a lorry with higher mirrors, but they are rare.

In fact my current mirrors on my big bike are exactly the same level as truck mirrors, so squeezing through traffic will be improved with longer stems and higher mirrors. Pruper jub.........

[dave_boo]

Wider than the bike, yes that is the only solution and now they must be higher that truck mirrors too, the widest part of a truck. With that done weaving through traffic will be a lot easier...until you meet a lorry with higher mirrors, but they are rare.

In fact my current mirrors on my big bike are exactly the same level as truck mirrors, so squeezing through traffic will be improved with longer stems and higher mirrors. Pruper jub.........

The mirrors on the 500X clear all but the PreRunner and bigger vehicles. Unfortunately that means that for most trucks the bars are now at their level. I know I look like an idiot weaving back and forth, but I manage to clear those mirrors. I've given up trying to protect idiots though. Christmas day we were down in front of Siam and I got hot enough that I stopped moving my handlebars. Those morons have 5 lanes of traffic compared to the single lane the other way bound have and they can't move over far enough to let motorcycles through!?!?!? Thus I eventually stopped the last time, in our lane braced myself and bike, and watched a taxi crack their mirror on my Barkbusters. Felt good. Of course the trouble and strife freaked out, but well worth it. As I had the bars tilted just right, he scuffed up the aluminium bracket a bit more and that was it for me.

[DualSportBiker]

I would LOVE a HUD integrated into the visor, universal mounting, waterproof, and affordable.

Agree with hansgruber above - taking your eyes off the road, even for a split second, is to invite disaster.

60 mph = 88 fps, or 100 kph = 28 MPs

Lot can happen in that time

No, I don't go along with that, we have been managing with mirrors for decades now, accidents occur when people are not concentrating, or riding too fast. It takes no longer to look at a mirror, if the mirrors are set correctly, requiring no head movement and both take more than a split second anyway.

Which brings me to a problem with standard mirrors on Thai bikes used by farangs. Every bike I have ridden here, the mirrors are set too close, so 60% of what I see are my own shoulders. So what is needed is mirror extensions, as I guess we have broader shoulders, haven't seen any so far.

There is a HUD in a helmet available now, and some virtual mirrors using cameras - pretty sure one if not both were discussed in detail in this forum. The primary issue with mirrors is that you need to refocus; this HUD is set so it is readable with your eyes focused on normal riding distance. This removes almost a second from the process of looking at mirror, focusing, registering what is in your mirror...

I would be interested to know which takes longer, looking to the mirror, or refocusing. Anyone know? Age will be a factor - eye muscles slow and weaken with age.

The fact that we have managed is almost irrelevant; improvements happen and change is inevitable. The first HUD may not hit the mark, but it won't take long before one does. I look forward to taking less time to check my mirrors and blind-spot before I execute some manoeuvre...

What nonsense the focal point is the object you are looking at not the mirror itself, that merely changes the direction of the light, so refocusing is unnecessary. But in any case do you you really think it takes a second to refocus your eye, if it does you shouldn't be riding a bike. Rear view cameras are only really useful for reversing and not many bikes are fitted with reverse.

Hansgruber, I was not saying the low mirrors are a good idea, as you would indeed need to move your head, merely that standard mirrors are best as you could also move your head in relationship to the mirror and extend you field of vision if need be, if is fixed to you head you can't.

So another one of these gimmicks if you ask me, all that is needed is longer stems and decent sized mirrors.

The manufacturers of the Skully AR-1 helmet claim an approximate 1-second delay in focusing on the mirror after looking forward. Whilst an assumption, it seems logical defensible to consider that the developer of this HUD helmet has done some research into the mechanics of vision and use of mirrors before designing a product with a single USP in its review technology.

"When you look down to your side mirror, for example, Weller said that you lose about one second with each glance to refocus your eyes. Skully's interface tricks the brain into thinking that the image is around 10 feet away from the rider, cutting the refocus time. And as any rider will tell you, one second is enough to be the difference between life and street pizza." - Source CNET.

I have never timed how long it takes me to refocus, have you? Are you a sub-second focuser? Infinitely variable focal distance is used in some camera lenses (Zeiss make some), and in military aircraft.

I am confused about the process; does the eye focus on the surface of the mirror first and then the object in it? Does glancing over a mirror's frame start adjustments to focus on the frame first? I am not knowledgeable in such matters so won't shoot an opinion out of my backside.

[AllanB]

The manufacturers of the Skully AR-1 helmet claim an approximate 1-second delay in focusing on the mirror after looking forward. Whilst an assumption, it seems logical defensible to consider that the developer of this HUD helmet has done some research into the mechanics of vision and use of mirrors before designing a product with a single USP in its review technology.

"When you look down to your side mirror, for example, Weller said that you lose about one second with each glance to refocus your eyes. Skully's interface tricks the brain into thinking that the image is around 10 feet away from the rider, cutting the refocus time. And as any rider will tell you, one second is enough to be the difference between life and street pizza." - Source CNET.

I have never timed how long it takes me to refocus, have you? Are you a sub-second focuser? Infinitely variable focal distance is used in some camera lenses (Zeiss make some), and in military aircraft.

I am confused about the process; does the eye focus on the surface of the mirror first and then the object in it? Does glancing over a mirror's frame start adjustments to focus on the frame first? I am not knowledgeable in such matters so won't shoot an opinion out of my backside.

Yes, they are selling a product!!!! and few people will understand milliseconds, but a second sounds a long time to Joe Public, especially if you convert it to distance traveled...and as I have already said you don't normally focus on the mirror you focus on the image. The mirror is merely changing the direction of the light entering it, so the total focal length is the distance between the object and the mirror plus the distance between the mirror and the eye's lens.

But lets assume they are right; If you are focusing on a mirror 5cm away and then back on the road 10 metres away your lens is being pulled from it's shortest focal length, to it's longest, requiring the maximum lens/muscle movement and the maximum time.

On the other hand your bog standard wing mirrors will be 1 metre away, then back to 10 metres, or about 1/2 that muscle movement, so how is the time saved with this gizmo?

If you are confused about where the eye focuses, it does so on everything single thing you look at and does it so quickly it makes no odds, as it uses the fastest part of the brain to do so. A involuntarily reaction/action, so it would be impossible to measure it without special equipment. Plus, you aren't actually blind during the miniscule period of time that the eyes are focusing, you are slightly out of focus, meaning you can see all the things about to hit you. And, since it is true that peripheral vision commands a faster reaction time, perhaps this is true of slight out of focus vision.

Anyway, remember the ads that told us "smoking is good for you", that "Coke is the real thing" and that "Daz washes whiter", so take this with the same pinch of salt.

We already know that SatNavs are distracting and I would suggest these things are the same, certainly in the short term, but it is your money.

Edited December 29, 2014 by AllanB

[Shurup]

I agree with what Allan says, yes the eye is focusing on the object in the mirror and not on the mirror itself. Its easy enough to check. Take a whiteboard marker and draw a dot on the mirror, now stand in front of it and look on some reflected object behind you, then look on the dot. You will see and feel that your eyes will refocus.

Also agree on them selling a product so they probably exaggerate things a little, but I'm not saying they're making a bad product, I'd probably buy one myself if the prices were reasonable.

[DualSportBiker]

I asked a optics and vision specialist and PHD and this was his response:

"When switching fixation between very near and far objects, both vergenance

(occulomotor muscles) and accommodation (ciliarity muscles) change

tension. It takes about a quarter second for the muscles to adjust.

However, "re-acquisition", perception of objects after a change can take

as long as a second.

There is also evidence that the attentional shift is asymmetrical. It

takes longer to adjust from near to far than from far to near.

Lastly, looking at a mirror creates distance distortions. Objects look

farther away than they actually are (f)or (sic) several reasons (limited field of

view and false feedback eye muscles). Obviously, this could cause

problems."

______________________

So, you might rethink 'milliseconds' as well as notions of 'miniscule'. As for 'you already telling me' well, that's nice. Unless you can tell me what reason I have to take your word as qualified in this field, repeating your position, and reminding me it came from you work against you Allan. You can't argue from authority if you are not an authority... Are you? Tell us your technical creds, not seat-of-your-riding-pants experiential feelings.

Now, regarding exagerations, things have changed. In a world were one can track down a specialist in the field of optics and vision, check his credentials, access his academic peer-review papers, ask a question and get an answer in 2 hours, manufacturers are more cautious than you give them credit, especially younger and tech savvy entrepreneurs. I also searched for complaints against the manufacturer, forum comments, comments on reviews and their press content, and found not one push back on the time factor quoted. Padding the capabilities of the product is one thing, the science behind the solution might harder to get away with, though I don't discount the possibility.

Anyhow - my main point is that it takes longer to check a mirror than you think it does, and the original wish for a HUD was not, IMO, such a bad idea as you make out.

[seedy]

Time is not the thing. Taking your concentration off the road ahead of you is.

The things that will kill you come from there, most times.

I learned long ago - look as far down the road as you can see. Peripheral vision will take care or movement

from the sides.

Edited December 29, 2014 by seedy

[AllanB]

I asked a optics and vision specialist and PHD and this was his response:

"When switching fixation between very near and far objects, both vergenance

(occulomotor muscles) and accommodation (ciliarity muscles) change

tension. It takes about a quarter second for the muscles to adjust.

However, "re-acquisition", perception of objects after a change can take

as long as a second.

There is also evidence that the attentional shift is asymmetrical. It

takes longer to adjust from near to far than from far to near.

Lastly, looking at a mirror creates distance distortions. Objects look

farther away than they actually are (f)or (sic) several reasons (limited field of

view and false feedback eye muscles). Obviously, this could cause

problems."

______________________

So, you might rethink 'milliseconds' as well as notions of 'miniscule'. As for 'you already telling me' well, that's nice. Unless you can tell me what reason I have to take your word as qualified in this field, repeating your position, and reminding me it came from you work against you Allan. You can't argue from authority if you are not an authority... Are you? Tell us your technical creds, not seat-of-your-riding-pants experiential feelings.

Now, regarding exagerations, things have changed. In a world were one can track down a specialist in the field of optics and vision, check his credentials, access his academic peer-review papers, ask a question and get an answer in 2 hours, manufacturers are more cautious than you give them credit, especially younger and tech savvy entrepreneurs. I also searched for complaints against the manufacturer, forum comments, comments on reviews and their press content, and found not one push back on the time factor quoted. Padding the capabilities of the product is one thing, the science behind the solution might harder to get away with, though I don't discount the possibility.

Anyhow - my main point is that it takes longer to check a mirror than you think it does, and the original wish for a HUD was not, IMO, such a bad idea as you make out.

Well I have seen the video and it is very slick and if your Phd man says it can take "up to second to fully refocus", I would not argue with that, as you say I am not an authority.

So with your Skully you are going from looking on the road ahead to looking at an image on your visor?, how is that not refocusing, indeed it is fully refocusing from max to min, taking the full minute your Phd man described?

The minute figure itself is misleading anyway for mirrors, since you are hardly refocusing at all, going from 10 metres to 11 metres, to 5 metres, to 20 metres and so on, these are all basically the same lens shape, as can be seen with a cheap fixed lens camera.

In addition you have phone messages, GPS messages and god knows what else coming in on your Skull y, all very slick, but nevertheless distracting and all this while riding a fast motorcycle. It is also proven that hands-free makes very little difference to the level of distraction, so why have anything at all, unless you think you are Tom Cruise in Mission Impossible.

Okay, in the promo video this guy is racing down the road with very little in his rear view mirror, phone messages coming in thick and fast, GPS messages too..... but you live in Thailand with a shit load going on behind you from every conceivable direction. So I would suggest your brain will have real problems disseminating all this information quickly, when something happens. The subconscious part of the brain is extremely fast and our reaction to a situation seen in a simple mirror is equally automatic. The same situation viewed via a camera among all the other things in you field of vision is much more difficult and would probably require the conscious part of brain to work it all out, which can take many many seconds, by which time..... Bang!

So I would argue these helmets are dangerous, notwithstanding all the messages coming in while you are about to be rear-ended.

There is another thing they fail to mention, when you look behind you using mirrors, the image is reversed and, over many years your brain is used to interpreting that subconsciously, the camera doesn't, so you have to relearn that using your very much slower conscious brain section. Okay you will get used to given a reasonable about of time and if you don't drive a car and don't ever wear a conventional helmet again, you will indeed begin to use your subconscious. But there is that learning curve, even for you young guys (no really), so hopefully you won't have an accident in the busy Bangkok traffic while your brain is trying to figure things out.

But then, you need to use your car, which has mirrors......... and that is why cameras are and should be used only for slow reversing.

...and, of course you will have to take the mirrors off your bike and it will fail it's MOT.

Go for it boys!!!

[seedy]

I would hazard you have never used a HUD. You do not focus on it, it is there all the time. Like peripheral vision.

Vehicles approaching from the rear would first be sensed as movement in that vision, on the side of the visor so as to not obstruct forward focus.

Fone, GPS, SMS - turn them off.

Skully to much $$$ anyway, I want a stand-alone unit to view on any visor

Edited December 30, 2014 by seedy

[Daffy D]

I didn't like it when car manufacturers moved wing mirrors of the wings and made them side mirrors.

With wing mirrors you only had to move your eye to see but with the side mirrors mounted on the door post a slight movement of the head is also usually required.

May not sound like much but especially here in Thailand where traffic, especially bikes that wiz at you from all angles those few mili seconds can be important.

[AllanB]

I would hazard you have never used a HUD. You do not focus on it, it is there all the time. Like peripheral vision.

Vehicles approaching from the rear would first be sensed as movement in that vision, on the side of the visor so as to not obstruct forward focus.

Fone, GPS, SMS - turn them off.

Skully to much $$$ anyway, I want a stand-alone unit to view on any visor

No Seedy, never heard of them before now and yes, a very valid point, but if you are using peripheral vision, which is admittedly fast and then your mirrors which you will if they are there on the bike. It must be very confusing, with one the reverse of the other and both with completely different areas of vision. Surely when you see something "unusual" behind you in your helmet, you will focus on that instinctively, meaning eyes completely off the road and then try to confirm it using you mirrors, again in reverse..... woooh!.... I could do without doing that in the traffic mate. Splat before you know it.

So I still think there is a big element of distraction with this, which is not good at all for bikers on Thai roads and lets face it, who is going to spend a zillion dollars on a fancy gizmo and then turn part of the system off? None of these Mission Impossible guys that's for sure, they have been sold the real live movie.

I too can think of cheaper ways of kissing the tarmac. I blindfold perhaps?

[Shurup]

^ Allan, I haven't used Skully but I can bet the view from the camera isn't reverted as you think. Have you ever taken a "selfy" with your phone? Or even looked at yourself on the screen with the camera pointing at you? The right and left aren't reversed and even if they were, it's something that can be easily reversed back with software, remember everything is digital now.