NACC stalls over 'difficult' prosecution of 2010 crackdown

[Bob12345]

Water cannons, tear gas, rubber bullets? Negotiation?

Snipers are a terminal action when they hit there mark. An ultimate end?

So this group occupied government buildings? What about the mob that occupied the airport; no one got shot there?

Does this judiciary take direction from the military?

I don't know what the answers are, but there may have been some form of intervention that may have been more appropriate than the action of killing unarmed civilians. (Not sure if any of the people killed had weapons that were pointing at their attackers?)

If someone was shooting at your house with a rifle, would you squirt them with a water pistol?

Absolutely not.

If someone even comes close to my house i buy a sniper rifle and stat shooting at everything that moves from a secure position.

[Bob12345]

The question to be asked , was there civil disobedience or not , if there was what is the problem , the personal sent to handle the disobedience did what was required to bring order back from disorder, there should be no case for a prosecution if civil disobedience can be proved, thousands of red shirts on the streets of BKK doesn't convey the image of the PTP members yearly picnic

Your views on the double standard then? Why was Suthep allowed to take over the streets with 6 months of civil disobedience, why were the PDRC minions not slaughtered like dogs in the streets? Your political hatred has caused your heart to shrink two sizes. How can you not empathise with those slain in their own capital by their own military, how can you not want justice, how can you not want punishment meted out to the offenders to ensure the likes of such never happens again. Your views and opinions are inhumane and disgraceful!

Your views (red tinted sunglasses?) are worse.

Care to explain or this one sentence covered all your research and years of political studies?

[EnglishJohn]

what idiot puts a scope on a Automatic weapon????

Anybody who knows anything about guns knows that AKs are not manufactured with any particular accuracy in mind. That is not a sniper, just an idiot who mounted a scope on a AK and is just about to miss his target and hit somebody innocent. Note the earphones, he is probably listening to some good tune there. Also note the cool shades he is wearing on the head. All looks very professional.

Thank you for your valuable input.

Looks like an M16 to me : an entirely different beast. But don't let facts get in the way of your argument. It started badly then got dramatically worse.

[AlQaholic]

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what idiot puts a scope on a Automatic weapon????

Anybody who knows anything about guns knows that AKs are not manufactured with any particular accuracy in mind. That is not a sniper, just an idiot who mounted a scope on a AK and is just about to miss his target and hit somebody innocent. Note the earphones, he is probably listening to some good tune there. Also note the cool shades he is wearing on the head. All looks very professional.

And what "idiot" calls an M-16 and AK??

M-16's ARE manufactured with accuracy in mind, and now come with a wide variety of "platforms" which allow for multiple accessories, which include scopes.

Please learn your weapons before running your mouth and making a fool of yourself.

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Thank you for implying I am an idiot, really welcome. To the statements about AK, I was trying to refer to "Automatic Karbines" in general, not a specific automatic weapon, I could not identify the specific weapon in the guys hands, as there are so many copies around of various Automatic weapons, manufactured under license or not.

For the choice of weapon; I guess all those moneys paying for those incredibly expensive sniper-rifles and training that goes into the U.S.Army snipers are all wasted, as you can just take any guy off the street then, hand him an M-16 and say "here ya go, go shoot someone!".

[Bob12345]

I would imagine the orders to the army would have been to target anyone carrying a firearm, we will never know how many of the so called 'peaceful protesters' who were shot were in fact carrying weapons when they were shot, for their weapons would have been taken from them as soon as they were hit.

Nor will we ever know how many were shot by their own armed element.

(...)

Those who would suggest that the use of snipers is something terrible should consider that it is carefully choosing a target that is a threat while avoiding normal protesters and children.

True that we will never know the exact numbers, we do know that unarmed protesters who were not of any threat were shot and killed. Videos of this can be found on youtube where it becomes clear that nobody was able to remove weapons.

Agree with the sniper comment. Rather snipers than people with machine guns who shoot in crowds. If the snipers worked well they should have been able to pick out their targets carefully while being at a safe distance themselves. I would expect some "men in black" to be lying dead on the ground at some point (not denying they were there, just pointing out that the snipers did not seem to do much of a good job).

[Fat Haggis]

what idiot puts a scope on a Automatic weapon????

Anybody who knows anything about guns knows that AKs are not manufactured with any particular accuracy in mind. That is not a sniper, just an idiot who mounted a scope on a AK and is just about to miss his target and hit somebody innocent. Note the earphones, he is probably listening to some good tune there. Also note the cool shades he is wearing on the head. All looks very professional.

What complete and utter crap!!

I take it you've never seen FSB have scopes on their AlKs then ?

But what does Russias premier counter terrorism unit know about scopes on AK's ?

When's the last time you were in an armed conflict to substantiate your claims?

Even your &lt;deleted&gt; comments about shades, I guess all the US spec ops guys in Iraq and Afghanistan and other AOs where sunlight effects eyesight wearing shades wasn't practical either?

Stick to playing call of duty on the Xbox it's about your level of expertise.

Mine? 11 years in Iraq using AK using various scopes daily and against bad guys on many occasions and carrying one in my duties right now says your talking complete drivel!!

Oh and I can hit targets out to 400-500Ms easily with a zeroed AK !!

[chainarong]

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The question to be asked , was there civil disobedience or not , if there was what is the problem , the personal sent to handle the disobedience did what was required to bring order back from disorder, there should be no case for a prosecution if civil disobedience can be proved, thousands of red shirts on the streets of BKK doesn't convey the image of the PTP members yearly picnic

The question for the courts is 'were people not involved in the violence deliberately targeted by the military?'
Political violence does not excuse the killing of innocents.

The innocent were sitting at home watching them burn down a city block , that's where the innocent were .There is a big difference to a political protest and wilful damage by arson.

[Fat Haggis]

Oh and snipers tend to have purpose built specialist rifles, these guys are more than likely designated marksmen.

Putting an optic on your weapons doesn't make you a sniper either, doing a proper snipers course that includes stalking, camouflage and concealment and range work where judging distances and being able to dial in or dope your scope to adjust for things like drift, humidity, wind atmospherics etc make you a sniper.

Sure you can use the term loosely to anyone who has a scoped weapon, but in military terms this guy with the M16 and not an AK is more a marksman than sniper.

And the M16 is far more accurate than the AK too at range.

Scopes are also good observation aids, if they have magnification

[Just1Voice]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

what idiot puts a scope on a Automatic weapon????

Anybody who knows anything about guns knows that AKs are not manufactured with any particular accuracy in mind. That is not a sniper, just an idiot who mounted a scope on a AK and is just about to miss his target and hit somebody innocent. Note the earphones, he is probably listening to some good tune there. Also note the cool shades he is wearing on the head. All looks very professional.

And what "idiot" calls an M-16 and AK??

M-16's ARE manufactured with accuracy in mind, and now come with a wide variety of "platforms" which allow for multiple accessories, which include scopes.

Please learn your weapons before running your mouth and making a fool of yourself.

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Thank you for implying I am an idiot, really welcome. To the statements about AK, I was trying to refer to "Automatic Karbines" in general, not a specific automatic weapon, I could not identify the specific weapon in the guys hands, as there are so many copies around of various Automatic weapons, manufactured under license or not.

For the choice of weapon; I guess all those moneys paying for those incredibly expensive sniper-rifles and training that goes into the U.S.Army snipers are all wasted, as you can just take any guy off the street then, hand him an M-16 and say "here ya go, go shoot someone!".

The more you talk, the deeper the hole of ignorance you dig.

[aussieinthailand]

Very misleading caption under that photo

"A military sniper shoots at Redshirt protesters near Lumpini Park on 15 May, 2014."

How does the reporter that wrote that caption even know if he pulled the trigger or not? This is a photo not Video.

How does anyone know what the person was aiming the gun at?

Maybe he was shooting at snipers, not protesters, or maybe he was just aiming at a garbage bin.

Trash Reporting.

That's all very true. But we do know that non-combatants were targeted by snipers, shot and killed... the nurse killed in the temple compound for instance. The point here is not that the soldier in the photo needs to be prosecuted--we don't know if and whom he shot--but someone needs to be held accountable for the killing of innocents by representatives of the state. I'm talking about the people who gave the orders for 'live fire' etc. Of course, this will not happen during the current regime for reasons that are all too obvious...

Look no further than Mark Suthep and the head of military, it's that simple these three gave the orders now it's time to pay the piper,

[Chris Lawrence]

Water cannons, tear gas, rubber bullets? Negotiation?

Snipers are a terminal action when they hit there mark. An ultimate end?

So this group occupied government buildings? What about the mob that occupied the airport; no one got shot there?

Does this judiciary take direction from the military?

I don't know what the answers are, but there may have been some form of intervention that may have been more appropriate than the action of killing unarmed civilians. (Not sure if any of the people killed had weapons that were pointing at their attackers?)

If someone was shooting at your house with a rifle, would you squirt them with a water pistol?

"The protests escalated into prolonged violent confrontations between the protesters and the military, and attempts to negotiate a ceasefire failed. More than 80 civilians and 6 soldiers were killed, and more than 2,100 injured by the time the military successfully cracked down on the protesters on 19 May."

"A state of emergency was declared in Bangkok on 8 April, banning political assemblies of more than five people. On 10 April, troops unsuccessfully cracked down at Phan Fah, resulting in 24 deaths, including one Japanese journalist and five soldiers, and more than 800 injuries. The Thai media called the crackdown "Cruel April"

On the evening of 13 May, Khattiya Sawasdiphol ("Seh Daeng"), security advisor to the protesters and leader of the armed "Ronin" guards known as the black shirts, was shot in the head by a sniper's bullet while he was giving an interview to press.

One military death occurred, apparently from accidental friendly fire

Abhisit informed the Democrat Party-led Bangkok Metropolitan Administration that he had intelligence of planned bomb attacks in at least two locations and grenade attacks in 30–40 locations in Bangkok. He claimed that the protesters would include 2,000 "well-trained hardliners."[39] He also claimed to have received intelligence that there was a terrorist threat of sabotage taking place on 14 March, but did not give any details about the nature of the plot. When questioned about the matter, Army spokesman Colonel Sansern Kaewkamnerd said the Army had no such intelligence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_political_protests

Just some background information above from Wikipedia.

Abhisit and Suthep soiled their pants while waiting for the Thai court to make a decision on taking Mr T monies. Their actions were seen by some as an overreaction to this and the call for Abhisit to resign. But this is all subjective to which colour T shirt you are wearing.

Both sides caused different situations during this period. The attempt now is to distinguish if the Government acted in a heavy handed way or manipulated situations to cause greatest effect on the protests and their attempts for a new election.

Don't know if you were around at this time Halloween?

[rubl]

It's good we have these recurring topics. I have read various accounts of what 'really' happened and it seems every time there's some new story.

Grenades started to rain down around the court's decision on the billions confiscated from the Shinawatra family. Somehow only non-red-shirts got hurt by them in the months following. The UDD gathered it's red shirts and a few in black. Another topic today has Thaksin as "The de facto leader of the Redshirt movement ".

Obviously the conclusion for some is to look for the guilty elsewhere

[apetley]

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The question to be asked , was there civil disobedience or not , if there was what is the problem , the personal sent to handle the disobedience did what was required to bring order back from disorder, there should be no case for a prosecution if civil disobedience can be proved, thousands of red shirts on the streets of BKK doesn't convey the image of the PTP members yearly picnic

The question for the courts is 'were people not involved in the violence deliberately targeted by the military?'

Political violence does not excuse the killing of innocents.

The innocent were sitting at home watching them burn down a city block , that's where the innocent were .There is a big difference to a political protest and wilful damage by arson.

An inquest has already determined that 6 unarmed people were killed by the militaries high velocity bullets at the temple. What needs to be determined now is if they were deliberately targeted or if they were accidentally killed. Edited January 6, 2015 by apetley

[tbthailand]

Very misleading caption under that photo

"A military sniper shoots at Redshirt protesters near Lumpini Park on 15 May, 2014."

How does the reporter that wrote that caption even know if he pulled the trigger or not? This is a photo not Video.

How does anyone know what the person was aiming the gun at?

Maybe he was shooting at snipers, not protesters, or maybe he was just aiming at a garbage bin.

Trash Reporting.

No Brainer, how does the reporter know?? The job of photo journalists is to report on what happens and provide the photos.

This isn't a pic from some joe and his iphone or some photoshop'd internet posting.

That's how you know.

There is plenty of additional documentation of the army shooting protesters during these 6 days. If you don't like this photo, then you can find many others. Even some video, I hear.

[seajae]

The question to be asked , was there civil disobedience or not , if there was what is the problem , the personal sent to handle the disobedience did what was required to bring order back from disorder, there should be no case for a prosecution if civil disobedience can be proved, thousands of red shirts on the streets of BKK doesn't convey the image of the PTP members yearly picnic

Your views on the double standard then? Why was Suthep allowed to take over the streets with 6 months of civil disobedience, why were the PDRC minions not slaughtered like dogs in the streets? Your political hatred has caused your heart to shrink two sizes. How can you not empathise with those slain in their own capital by their own military, how can you not want justice, how can you not want punishment meted out to the offenders to ensure the likes of such never happens again. Your views and opinions are inhumane and disgraceful!

maybe because he was doing it peacefully, he was not calling for the ones following him to start shooting, firebombing, blowing up all of Bangkok etc like the reds were. You seem to be the selective one , there is a difference between doing it without calling for people to be killed and businesses burnt to the ground and simply calling on the govt to step down.

[seajae]

Very misleading caption under that photo

"A military sniper shoots at Redshirt protesters near Lumpini Park on 15 May, 2014."

How does the reporter that wrote that caption even know if he pulled the trigger or not? This is a photo not Video.

How does anyone know what the person was aiming the gun at?

Maybe he was shooting at snipers, not protesters, or maybe he was just aiming at a garbage bin.

Trash Reporting.

No Brainer, how does the reporter know?? The job of photo journalists is to report on what happens and provide the photos.

This isn't a pic from some joe and his iphone or some photoshop'd internet posting.

That's how you know.

There is plenty of additional documentation of the army shooting protesters during these 6 days. If you don't like this photo, then you can find many others. Even some video, I hear.

they could always put up the photos of the black shirt assasins under thaksins orders shooting at everyone with the same weapons used by the soldiers or would that just make the truth come out quicker

[seajae]

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The question to be asked , was there civil disobedience or not , if there was what is the problem , the personal sent to handle the disobedience did what was required to bring order back from disorder, there should be no case for a prosecution if civil disobedience can be proved, thousands of red shirts on the streets of BKK doesn't convey the image of the PTP members yearly picnic

The question for the courts is 'were people not involved in the violence deliberately targeted by the military?'

Political violence does not excuse the killing of innocents.

The innocent were sitting at home watching them burn down a city block , that's where the innocent were .There is a big difference to a political protest and wilful damage by arson.

An inquest has already determined that 6 unarmed people were killed by the militaries high velocity bullets at the temple. What needs to be determined now is if they were deliberately targeted or if they were accidentally killed.

yes army weapons like the ones being used by the blackshirts and red shirts that were stolen from the army by them. Lets also not forget that the charges were brought by the reds/ptp lackies and they did not have the power to do so and they also did not produce any evidence that showed it was definitely the army that did the shooting. Why havent they matched up the ballistics tro the army weapons yet if they did it, the black/red shirts have a lot to answer for as well

[apetley]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The question to be asked , was there civil disobedience or not , if there was what is the problem , the personal sent to handle the disobedience did what was required to bring order back from disorder, there should be no case for a prosecution if civil disobedience can be proved, thousands of red shirts on the streets of BKK doesn't convey the image of the PTP members yearly picnic

The question for the courts is 'were people not involved in the violence deliberately targeted by the military?'

Political violence does not excuse the killing of innocents.

The innocent were sitting at home watching them burn down a city block , that's where the innocent were .There is a big difference to a political protest and wilful damage by arson.

An inquest has already determined that 6 unarmed people were killed by the militaries high velocity bullets at the temple. What needs to be determined now is if they were deliberately targeted or if they were accidentally killed.

yes army weapons like the ones being used by the blackshirts and red shirts that were stolen from the army by them. Lets also not forget that the charges were brought by the reds/ptp lackies and they did not have the power to do so and they also did not produce any evidence that showed it was definitely the army that did the shooting. Why havent they matched up the ballistics tro the army weapons yet if they did it, the black/red shirts have a lot to answer for as well

Agree entirely with what you say. Both sides have a lot to answer for but sadly I very much doubt if any answers will be forthcoming.

As for the armies own weapons being ballistics tested who knows. As part of any thorough and genuine investigation it should already have happened and results known. The silence is deafening.