Anusorn challenges Chuan

[webfact]

Anusorn challenges Chuan
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Anusorn Iamsa-ard, Pheu Thai Party acting deputy spokesman, criticised former Democrat Party leader Chuan Leekpai's statement that Thais do not understand democracy well enough.

Anusorn asked whether Chuan should be blamed for not promoting an understanding of democracy when he was premier for two terms. He asked if the fact that most people did not vote for Democrats meant people did not understand democracy. He asked if Chuan still believed in democracy, since he and other Democrats led the "Bangkok shutdown" campaign.

He also asked Chuan whether he and those who were campaigning to bring down an elected government also wanted a military coup.

He asked if Suthep Thaugsuban's demand for millions of baht from the National Council for Peace and Order for expenses incurred during his anti-government protests meant Suthep understood democracy or not. He said Chuan made his reputation as a man who fought for democracy against dictatorship. But now that he supported military rule, did it indicate that he understood democracy?

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Anusorn-challenges-Chuan-30251271.html


-- The Nation 2015-01-06

[h90]

If Anursorn has a point or not. Lets not forget PTP did in all their elections massive full scale vote buying. Hardly a position to discuss about others people opinion on democracy.

[Snig27]

If Anursorn has a point or not. Lets not forget PTP did in all their elections massive full scale vote buying. Hardly a position to discuss about others people opinion on democracy.

They all did - and studies have repeatedly shown that the Dems did more, but it made no difference to the result. The last Thai election was also deemed by an Australian study to be the the cleanest in South East Asia ever (one assumes the one party "elections" in Singapore are not regarded as elections).

[Tatsujin]

Pot calling the kettle black.

[Bakseeda]

If Anursorn has a point or not. Lets not forget PTP did in all their elections massive full scale vote buying. Hardly a position to discuss about others people opinion on democracy.

They all did - and studies have repeatedly shown that the Dems did more, but it made no difference to the result. The last Thai election was also deemed by an Australian study to be the the cleanest in South East Asia ever (one assumes the one party "elections" in Singapore are not regarded as elections).

Stig, its almost seems that Red Apologists can pull any kind of study or poll out of thin air when it suits them.. so can you provide a link for us to read for ourselves... No ... I thought not.. And out of the 67 million Thai people living in this country, the huge majority seem happy with this present government.

As a farang it has Nothing to do with me, I can go home whenever it suits me. Personally , I feel a lot safer with this government in place... but, roll on the new constitution.. Long live the King.

[Bakseeda]

Double post

Edited January 6, 2015 by Bakseeda

[noitom]

Let's see if the Thai press grabs this one like a hungry dog with red meat and pursues Chuan for follow up.

[ImmortalGod]

Bravo Khun Anusorn

[Pib]

Let's have a Muay Thai boxing match to settle this challenge: The Thriller in Bangkok.

[ImmortalGod]

If Anursorn has a point or not. Lets not forget PTP did in all their elections massive full scale vote buying. Hardly a position to discuss about others people opinion on democracy.

They all did - and studies have repeatedly shown that the Dems did more, but it made no difference to the result. The last Thai election was also deemed by an Australian study to be the the cleanest in South East Asia ever (one assumes the one party "elections" in Singapore are not regarded as elections).

Stig, its almost seems that Red Apologists can pull any kind of study or poll out of thin air when it suits them.. so can you provide a link for us to read for ourselves... No ... I thought not.. And out of the 67 million Thai people living in this country, the huge majority seem happy with this present government.

As a farang it has Nothing to do with me, I can go home whenever it suits me. Personally , I feel a lot safer with this government in place... but, roll on the new constitution.. Long live the King.

Where are your studies, polls and links to prove a "huge majority seem happy with the present government"? You can't dismiss h90 by holding him to a standard that you don't even meet yourself. How or why on earth did you feel unsafe under elected governments? The accusations against the Reds are basically all financial (and false) - nothing at all about endangering expats. If you feel comfortable living under a coup government that censors and oppresses its citizens you probably won't be welcome "back home" anymore as yours are not the views that civilised countries welcome. Long live the King and short live the Junta.

[Baerboxer]

Bravo Khun Anusorn

Shame he missed the question about is it democracy for a convicted criminal fugitive, with 15 serious outstanding charges in court, to control a government from overseas by Skype and meetings outside the county?

No one voted for the fugitive at the last election - but they got him running the country, for his benefit.

[ImmortalGod]

Bravo Khun Anusorn

Shame he missed the question about is it democracy for a convicted criminal fugitive, with 15 serious outstanding charges in court, to control a government from overseas by Skype and meetings outside the county?

No one voted for the fugitive at the last election - but they got him running the country, for his benefit.

Bravo Khun Anusorn!

[Baerboxer]

If Anursorn has a point or not. Lets not forget PTP did in all their elections massive full scale vote buying. Hardly a position to discuss about others people opinion on democracy.

They all did - and studies have repeatedly shown that the Dems did more, but it made no difference to the result. The last Thai election was also deemed by an Australian study to be the the cleanest in South East Asia ever (one assumes the one party "elections" in Singapore are not regarded as elections).

Stig, its almost seems that Red Apologists can pull any kind of study or poll out of thin air when it suits them.. so can you provide a link for us to read for ourselves... No ... I thought not.. And out of the 67 million Thai people living in this country, the huge majority seem happy with this present government.

As a farang it has Nothing to do with me, I can go home whenever it suits me. Personally , I feel a lot safer with this government in place... but, roll on the new constitution.. Long live the King.

Where are your studies, polls and links to prove a "huge majority seem happy with the present government"? You can't dismiss h90 by holding him to a standard that you don't even meet yourself. How or why on earth did you feel unsafe under elected governments? The accusations against the Reds are basically all financial (and false) - nothing at all about endangering expats. If you feel comfortable living under a coup government that censors and oppresses its citizens you probably won't be welcome "back home" anymore as yours are not the views that civilised countries welcome. Long live the King and short live the Junta.

Censoring the press, oppresses citizens - you mean like PTP with threats of prosecutions for clicking likes on anti-Shin social media posts; or the red militia attacking people who expressed opposing views?

[Baerboxer]

Bravo Khun Anusorn

Shame he missed the question about is it democracy for a convicted criminal fugitive, with 15 serious outstanding charges in court, to control a government from overseas by Skype and meetings outside the county?

No one voted for the fugitive at the last election - but they got him running the country, for his benefit.

Bravo Khun Anusorn!

The latest Shin boiler room recruit. Have you replaced rich teacher, frysian boppe, the dog, and all the others who've suddenly vanished?

[ImmortalGod]

Stig, its almost seems that Red Apologists can pull any kind of study or poll out of thin air when it suits them.. so can you provide a link for us to read for ourselves... No ... I thought not.. And out of the 67 million Thai people living in this country, the huge majority seem happy with this present government.

As a farang it has Nothing to do with me, I can go home whenever it suits me. Personally , I feel a lot safer with this government in place... but, roll on the new constitution.. Long live the King.

Where are your studies, polls and links to prove a "huge majority seem happy with the present government"? You can't dismiss h90 by holding him to a standard that you don't even meet yourself. How or why on earth did you feel unsafe under elected governments? The accusations against the Reds are basically all financial (and false) - nothing at all about endangering expats. If you feel comfortable living under a coup government that censors and oppresses its citizens you probably won't be welcome "back home" anymore as yours are not the views that civilised countries welcome. Long live the King and short live the Junta.

Censoring the press, oppresses citizens - you mean like PTP with threats of prosecutions for clicking likes on anti-Shin social media posts; or the red militia attacking people who expressed opposing views?

No, I mean where are the studies, polls and links that support your absurd and patently false claims that a huge majority of Thais enjoy living under armed oppressors?

[crobe]

Stig, its almost seems that Red Apologists can pull any kind of study or poll out of thin air when it suits them.. so can you provide a link for us to read for ourselves... No ... I thought not.. And out of the 67 million Thai people living in this country, the huge majority seem happy with this present government.

As a farang it has Nothing to do with me, I can go home whenever it suits me. Personally , I feel a lot safer with this government in place... but, roll on the new constitution.. Long live the King.

Where are your studies, polls and links to prove a "huge majority seem happy with the present government"? You can't dismiss h90 by holding him to a standard that you don't even meet yourself. How or why on earth did you feel unsafe under elected governments? The accusations against the Reds are basically all financial (and false) - nothing at all about endangering expats. If you feel comfortable living under a coup government that censors and oppresses its citizens you probably won't be welcome "back home" anymore as yours are not the views that civilised countries welcome. Long live the King and short live the Junta.

Censoring the press, oppresses citizens - you mean like PTP with threats of prosecutions for clicking likes on anti-Shin social media posts; or the red militia attacking people who expressed opposing views?

No, I mean where are the studies, polls and links that support your absurd and patently false claims that a huge majority of Thais enjoy living under armed oppressors?

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/nida-poll-shows-general-prayuth-favoured-prime-minister

http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2014-07/28/content_17932427.htm

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/military-juntas-popularity-rises

Most of these are NIDA polls - I hope these links are allowed as other sources are not allowed

Whether you feel that these polls are true or not they do support Baerboxers point but I wait to see you link to referencing the last Thai election as being the most fair in SE Asia.

\maybe you were thinking of the statement by the Asian network for Free Eelections which commended the 2011 poll but also said

"ANFREL issued a statement Tuesday noting there were some flaws in the election, including cases of violence, intimidation and vote-buying that it urged authorities to handle appropriately."

[ImmortalGod]

Censoring the press, oppresses citizens - you mean like PTP with threats of prosecutions for clicking likes on anti-Shin social media posts; or the red militia attacking people who expressed opposing views?

No, I mean where are the studies, polls and links that support your absurd and patently false claims that a huge majority of Thais enjoy living under armed oppressors?

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/nida-poll-shows-general-prayuth-favoured-prime-minister

http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2014-07/28/content_17932427.htm

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/military-juntas-popularity-rises

Most of these are NIDA polls - I hope these links are allowed as other sources are not allowed

Whether you feel that these polls are true or not they do support Baerboxers point but I wait to see you link to referencing the last Thai election as being the most fair in SE Asia.

\maybe you were thinking of the statement by the Asian network for Free Eelections which commended the 2011 poll but also said

"ANFREL issued a statement Tuesday noting there were some flaws in the election, including cases of violence, intimidation and vote-buying that it urged authorities to handle appropriately."

NIDA polls are garbage!

Ah, you say, dismiss anything that supports the Junta but claim anything that supports PTP has value (such as the past 6 national elections).

Drivel I reply.

If the NIDA polls were anywhere close to being accurate there would not be the fear of elections by the Junta and anti-democrats that there is.

The simple fact is if 90% of the people support the Junta there would be elections tomorrow, they would win in a landslide and implement whatever reforms they wanted to unopposed and within the bounds of the law, instead we have a continuation of martial law and censorship and and end to democracy and free speech.

NIDA polls are garbage.

The majority of Thais, though not all supporters of Thaksin or PTP are supporters of Democracy in the true sense of the word, not some dodgy Thai style crap.

[WhizBang]

Bravo Khun Anusorn

Shame he missed the question about is it democracy for a convicted criminal fugitive, with 15 serious outstanding charges in court, to control a government from overseas by Skype and meetings outside the county?

No one voted for the fugitive at the last election - but they got him running the country, for his benefit.

Bravo Khun Anusorn!

The latest Shin boiler room recruit. Have you replaced rich teacher, frysian boppe, the dog, and all the others who've suddenly vanished?

Apparantly he is the new Shin recruit. Red, through and through. He won't let a few hard facts get in the way of his master's reality.

[Eric Loh]

Anusorn is too kind and polite with his criticism of Chuan. Chuan sold out his party principle. The oldest party in Thailand was positioned to be the democracy beacon for the people and was called the people's party for their stance against militarism politics. Fast forward and see Chuan pandering to the elites and the military. He also associated his party to the vastly corrupted Sutherp because he was a big party financier. He is also soft in his leadership allowing the unpopular Ahbisit to continue to be leader and not listening to senior members pushing for party reform.

[crobe]

Censoring the press, oppresses citizens - you mean like PTP with threats of prosecutions for clicking likes on anti-Shin social media posts; or the red militia attacking people who expressed opposing views?

No, I mean where are the studies, polls and links that support your absurd and patently false claims that a huge majority of Thais enjoy living under armed oppressors?

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/nida-poll-shows-general-prayuth-favoured-prime-minister

http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2014-07/28/content_17932427.htm

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/military-juntas-popularity-rises

Most of these are NIDA polls - I hope these links are allowed as other sources are not allowed

Whether you feel that these polls are true or not they do support Baerboxers point but I wait to see you link to referencing the last Thai election as being the most fair in SE Asia.

\maybe you were thinking of the statement by the Asian network for Free Eelections which commended the 2011 poll but also said

"ANFREL issued a statement Tuesday noting there were some flaws in the election, including cases of violence, intimidation and vote-buying that it urged authorities to handle appropriately."

NIDA polls are garbage!

Ah, you say, dismiss anything that supports the Junta but claim anything that supports PTP has value (such as the past 6 national elections).

Drivel I reply.

If the NIDA polls were anywhere close to being accurate there would not be the fear of elections by the Junta and anti-democrats that there is.

The simple fact is if 90% of the people support the Junta there would be elections tomorrow, they would win in a landslide and implement whatever reforms they wanted to unopposed and within the bounds of the law, instead we have a continuation of martial law and censorship and and end to democracy and free speech.

NIDA polls are garbage.

The majority of Thais, though not all supporters of Thaksin or PTP are supporters of Democracy in the true sense of the word, not some dodgy Thai style crap.

Any poll can be dismissed as garbage, but you are the one that asked for them

The July poll was conducted by Suan Dusit, another similar poll by KrungThep (Bangkok University) cannot be linked as it was reported in a paper that is not allowed to be linked to here.

Please go ahead and also call these garbage but then tel me which polling organisations you do trust, and their results relating to the current regime (Thai opinion not external)

You talk about democracy but fall into the classic trap of all anti-democrats - rubbish he opinion polls that do not agree with your point of view.

Or perhaps, like the Yingluck government in 2013 you would prefer to issue "polls" that 68% of people were happy with the rice subsidy scheme, even though no such poll existed.

You say that the majority of Thais are supporters of democracy - obviously you are not one of them (Thai or a supporter of democracy)

[chainarong]

There has been a lot of water under the bridge since Khun Chuan was P.M. but lets not all argue about Democracy, Anusorn knows full well that he knows very little about the subject also , otherwise the PTP would still be governing , those that do know about democracy and have experienced it first hand in other countries just throw their hands in the air with disgust and revert back to Thainess , it is very hard to establish any dialogue on democracy , most ruling elite only know the Thai version , the BMA bus purchase comes to mind.

[bangrak]

Anusorn is too kind and polite with his criticism of Chuan. Chuan sold out his party principle. The oldest party in Thailand was positioned to be the democracy beacon for the people and was called the people's party for their stance against militarism politics. Fast forward and see Chuan pandering to the elites and the military. He also associated his party to the vastly corrupted Sutherp because he was a big party financier. He is also soft in his leadership allowing the unpopular Ahbisit to continue to be leader and not listening to senior members pushing for party reform.

Interesting analysis. For the balance, could you please provide an analysis in the same sharp critical style concerning the 'Thaksin regime' years with PPP, TRT and PTP? Being an unbiased highly educated contributor here, I'm convinced it would be as interesting, while not costing you much of your precious time, being so well informed about the Shinawatra clan and its product Thaksin. Thank you.

[smedly]

Dumb and Dumber

Just about sums it up

[bangrak]

If Anursorn has a point or not. Lets not forget PTP did in all their elections massive full scale vote buying. Hardly a position to discuss about others people opinion on democracy.

They all did - and studies have repeatedly shown that the Dems did more, but it made no difference to the result. The last Thai election was also deemed by an Australian study to be the the cleanest in South East Asia ever (one assumes the one party "elections" in Singapore are not regarded as elections).

Stig, its almost seems that Red Apologists can pull any kind of study or poll out of thin air when it suits them.. so can you provide a link for us to read for ourselves... No ... I thought not.. And out of the 67 million Thai people living in this country, the huge majority seem happy with this present government.

As a farang it has Nothing to do with me, I can go home whenever it suits me. Personally , I feel a lot safer with this government in place... but, roll on the new constitution.. Long live the King.

Where are your studies, polls and links to prove a "huge majority seem happy with the present government"? You can't dismiss h90 by holding him to a standard that you don't even meet yourself. How or why on earth did you feel unsafe under elected governments? The accusations against the Reds are basically all financial (and false) - nothing at all about endangering expats. If you feel comfortable living under a coup government that censors and oppresses its citizens you probably won't be welcome "back home" anymore as yours are not the views that civilised countries welcome. Long live the King and short live the Junta.

Hello, new kid on the block, ...or old one in new clothes! Are you paid per reaction, per line or per word? Is it a full time contract? For how long?

[h90]

If Anursorn has a point or not. Lets not forget PTP did in all their elections massive full scale vote buying. Hardly a position to discuss about others people opinion on democracy.

They all did - and studies have repeatedly shown that the Dems did more, but it made no difference to the result. The last Thai election was also deemed by an Australian study to be the the cleanest in South East Asia ever (one assumes the one party "elections" in Singapore are not regarded as elections).

You are joking, right?

Beside that it is total illogical. Why would the Dems do vote buying in Isaan where they anyway won't get something? And why would they do vote buying in Surat where they would win anyway?

It was like all the last elections full scale, beside in Bangkok where it might be troublesome they didn't forget many people.....And sometimes unbelievable amounts of money.....

And even if the Dems would have done more, how would that make anything better?

And even if it would be the cleanest in SEA (not much competition here) which I doubt, how would it be OK, just because in Myanmar they did it worse?

[Snig27]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

If Anursorn has a point or not. Lets not forget PTP did in all their elections massive full scale vote buying. Hardly a position to discuss about others people opinion on democracy.

They all did - and studies have repeatedly shown that the Dems did more, but it made no difference to the result. The last Thai election was also deemed by an Australian study to be the the cleanest in South East Asia ever (one assumes the one party "elections" in Singapore are not regarded as elections).

Stig, its almost seems that Red Apologists can pull any kind of study or poll out of thin air when it suits them.. so can you provide a link for us to read for ourselves... No ... I thought not.. And out of the 67 million Thai people living in this country, the huge majority seem happy with this present government.

As a farang it has Nothing to do with me, I can go home whenever it suits me. Personally , I feel a lot safer with this government in place... but, roll on the new constitution.. Long live the King.

Good on you, but cluelessly calling someone a red apologist when they post something you don't like just makes you look a little silly. Firstly, all those studies have been posted in these forums many times (and discussed), and in the various English language newspapers - and it really doesn't take a genius to work out that support for PT was genuinely massive and still is, although it seems to elude you. Secondly, my post said that both parties indulged in this practice and only a fool would suggest that they don't - although you seem to be doing exactly that.

Please engage brain - or even google - before you attack somebody else in future. Cheers.

PS - who is Stig? Or was that some odd attempt to insult?

PPS - this took about 3 seconds. It wasn't even one of the ones I was referring to. Google is your friend http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2014/05/01/electoral-integrity-in-thailand/