Lining A Concrete Fishpond

[UKJASE]

Hey guys, i have just (badly) built a concrete hole in the garden, with the intention of developing it into a koi carp pond

it is 3m x 4m wide, and about 1.5m deep. it is 80% below ground, has a poured concrete base, with breeze block walls, reinforced with rebar

the walls are in the process of being rendered with concrete, but it is the first time i have done it, so it is a very rough finish

can you tell me the best way to waterproof the pond please? i am thinking i will need to render it with some waterproof concrete / grout, or maybe paint it with waterproof roof paint, or something similar

i am worried though as the finish is so rough, that it will take a lot of waterproof render / paint to cover everywhere.

i will probably get someone else in to finish it off and make it smooth, but can you help me with what materials i can use, that will not poison the fish, be relatively easy to apply, and not too expensive

[eyecatcher]

I just wonder if you were going to construct your hole in the ground for another purpose; then decided to convert into a pond?

I say this because you say you wanted easy and not too expensive.

In my opinion you have already made the job expensive and difficult.

I have never built nor had a pond but if i did; it would involve 2 simple steps

1.dig hole, step or slope the sides

2. line the pond with a butyl rubber liner.(EPDM/geotextile etc)

If you can throw in a liner with what you have built already then do that. A liner is much cheaper than concrete and takes an hour to cut and install.

the only downside to using a liner I can see would be if you are in a high water table area where the ground pressure would lift the liner. (not a concern in your case)

If you really want to try and render over the rough concrete then using the sika waterproof render is going to be mega expensive and needs to be applied by a pro. If you don;t line your rough walls, regardless of how much concrete and rebar is in it; the water will just leak out in a day for sure.

If you have build a box with vertical sides then you could tile it because essentially what you have is no different to a swimming pool.

Maybe try to finish the rendering then do a water hold test; if it fails then explore the possibility of nail gunning a pond liner to the bottom and sides or tiling it.

Just a couple of ideas to think about.

[billd766]

I just wonder if you were going to construct your hole in the ground for another purpose; then decided to convert into a pond?

I say this because you say you wanted easy and not too expensive.

In my opinion you have already made the job expensive and difficult.

I have never built nor had a pond but if i did; it would involve 2 simple steps

1.dig hole, step or slope the sides

2. line the pond with a butyl rubber liner.(EPDM/geotextile etc)

If you can throw in a liner with what you have built already then do that. A liner is much cheaper than concrete and takes an hour to cut and install.

the only downside to using a liner I can see would be if you are in a high water table area where the ground pressure would lift the liner. (not a concern in your case)

If you really want to try and render over the rough concrete then using the sika waterproof render is going to be mega expensive and needs to be applied by a pro. If you don;t line your rough walls, regardless of how much concrete and rebar is in it; the water will just leak out in a day for sure.

If you have build a box with vertical sides then you could tile it because essentially what you have is no different to a swimming pool.

Maybe try to finish the rendering then do a water hold test; if it fails then explore the possibility of nail gunning a pond liner to the bottom and sides or tiling it.

Just a couple of ideas to think about.

I have a fish pond about 45 x 13 metres of surface area, sloped with the depth varying from about 1.5 metres at the shallow end to nearly 3 metres at the deep end.

Have you any idea how much a butyl rubber liner.(EPDM/geotextile etc) would cost and where I could get one?

I live in rural Thailand 65 km southwest of Khampaeng Phet.

[eyecatcher]

I imagine fish and pond suppliers are few and far between out in the sticks.

Here in chiang mai they are quite common.

The rubber liners are not cheap because they are very robust and untearable but certainly cheaper than building walls.

You may have to order from internet or via a builders yard.

However with a pond 45m long it would be fun to try and go the traditional way and line it with clay.

Get the next lorry of excavated clay from a building site to drop off a load.

You are retired and have plenty of time do you?

Seriously check out the liner costs.

[IMHO]

One of the products form here should do the trick:

http://www.weberthai.com/en/waterproofing-products.html

[billd766]

I imagine fish and pond suppliers are few and far between out in the sticks.

Here in chiang mai they are quite common.

The rubber liners are not cheap because they are very robust and untearable but certainly cheaper than building walls.

You may have to order from internet or via a builders yard.

However with a pond 45m long it would be fun to try and go the traditional way and line it with clay.

Get the next lorry of excavated clay from a building site to drop off a load.

You are retired and have plenty of time do you?

Seriously check out the liner costs.

I was looking into bentonite clay several years ago but the only place I could find at that time was on the road between Tak and Mae Sot and the transport costs alone would kill me.

I figured it out at something close to 600 sq/mtr and I had no idea how thick to make it but even at 20cm thick it would have been close to 120 cu/mtr or perhaps 20 truckloads each travelling about 150km each way plus a gang to spread and mix it would have dented my funds a big bit without the cost of the clay.

[billd766]

One of the products form here should do the trick:

http://www.weberthai.com/en/waterproofing-products.html

It would depend on the coverage and the price as there is about 600 sq/mtr to cover but to what depth I don't know.

[eyecatcher]

I imagine fish and pond suppliers are few and far between out in the sticks.

Here in chiang mai they are quite common.

The rubber liners are not cheap because they are very robust and untearable but certainly cheaper than building walls.

You may have to order from internet or via a builders yard.

However with a pond 45m long it would be fun to try and go the traditional way and line it with clay.

Get the next lorry of excavated clay from a building site to drop off a load.

You are retired and have plenty of time do you?

Seriously check out the liner costs.

I was looking into bentonite clay several years ago but the only place I could find at that time was on the road between Tak and Mae Sot and the transport costs alone would kill me.

I figured it out at something close to 600 sq/mtr and I had no idea how thick to make it but even at 20cm thick it would have been close to 120 cu/mtr or perhaps 20 truckloads each travelling about 150km each way plus a gang to spread and mix it would have dented my funds a big bit without the cost of the clay.

Firstly I apologise to the OP for drifting from his concrete pond but I became interested in this clay idea.

I decided to check out the thickness of the puddling clay (bentonite) that they used to line the original canals back in the industrial revolution days.

I was quite surprised to read that the thickness was often between 60cm and 1.2m (no doubt then 1ft 11" and an 1/8th) Obviously labour was cheap and clay was bountiful then.

That lead me to the fact that many dams and reservoirs in Russia and Czech are actually lined with turf. Just 2 layers with a layer of sand in between.

apparently the turf seals it yet also somehow creates a great filtration system.

Is that a feasible proposal to line your large pond? available and cheapish.

[maxtwo]

Beware how rough and sharp the pool is I bilt a few years ago and fish kept getting sawer marks on them.One day I caught side with my hand and tuck skin off problem solved.I fibre glass gel coated it no more sore fish.

[billd766]

I imagine fish and pond suppliers are few and far between out in the sticks.

Here in chiang mai they are quite common.

The rubber liners are not cheap because they are very robust and untearable but certainly cheaper than building walls.

You may have to order from internet or via a builders yard.

However with a pond 45m long it would be fun to try and go the traditional way and line it with clay.

Get the next lorry of excavated clay from a building site to drop off a load.

You are retired and have plenty of time do you?

Seriously check out the liner costs.

I was looking into bentonite clay several years ago but the only place I could find at that time was on the road between Tak and Mae Sot and the transport costs alone would kill me.

I figured it out at something close to 600 sq/mtr and I had no idea how thick to make it but even at 20cm thick it would have been close to 120 cu/mtr or perhaps 20 truckloads each travelling about 150km each way plus a gang to spread and mix it would have dented my funds a big bit without the cost of the clay.

Firstly I apologise to the OP for drifting from his concrete pond but I became interested in this clay idea.

I decided to check out the thickness of the puddling clay (bentonite) that they used to line the original canals back in the industrial revolution days.

I was quite surprised to read that the thickness was often between 60cm and 1.2m (no doubt then 1ft 11" and an 1/8th) Obviously labour was cheap and clay was bountiful then.

That lead me to the fact that many dams and reservoirs in Russia and Czech are actually lined with turf. Just 2 layers with a layer of sand in between.

apparently the turf seals it yet also somehow creates a great filtration system.

Is that a feasible proposal to line your large pond? available and cheapish.

The sand is easy but nobody seems to have turf as we know it around here. It is either scrub grass, sand or just dirt.

[eyecatcher]

I imagine fish and pond suppliers are few and far between out in the sticks.

Here in chiang mai they are quite common.

The rubber liners are not cheap because they are very robust and untearable but certainly cheaper than building walls.

You may have to order from internet or via a builders yard.

However with a pond 45m long it would be fun to try and go the traditional way and line it with clay.

Get the next lorry of excavated clay from a building site to drop off a load.

You are retired and have plenty of time do you?

Seriously check out the liner costs.

I was looking into bentonite clay several years ago but the only place I could find at that time was on the road between Tak and Mae Sot and the transport costs alone would kill me.

I figured it out at something close to 600 sq/mtr and I had no idea how thick to make it but even at 20cm thick it would have been close to 120 cu/mtr or perhaps 20 truckloads each travelling about 150km each way plus a gang to spread and mix it would have dented my funds a big bit without the cost of the clay.

Firstly I apologise to the OP for drifting from his concrete pond but I became interested in this clay idea.

I decided to check out the thickness of the puddling clay (bentonite) that they used to line the original canals back in the industrial revolution days.

I was quite surprised to read that the thickness was often between 60cm and 1.2m (no doubt then 1ft 11" and an 1/8th) Obviously labour was cheap and clay was bountiful then.

That lead me to the fact that many dams and reservoirs in Russia and Czech are actually lined with turf. Just 2 layers with a layer of sand in between.

apparently the turf seals it yet also somehow creates a great filtration system.

Is that a feasible proposal to line your large pond? available and cheapish.

The sand is easy but nobody seems to have turf as we know it around here. It is either scrub grass, sand or just dirt.

You arenot having much luck with materials are you ?

I suggest you check you have water supply otherwise forget the pond idea all together

[UKJASE]

i looked at the water tank the builders built on the land when they first arrived. it is a simple rectangular tank made of breeze block, then a 1cm or so lining of concrete within, and then a 2 mm lining of quite a dark grey concrete type material, that has been rendered on. i guess this 2mm layer is what keeps the water in

i asked the builder what it was they would have used (the original guy who built it is not there at the minute) and he said "boo"

"boo" is concrete is it not? he said "boo le naam - mai sai"..... i think he was saying concrete and water - with no sand

is a simple mix of pure concrete and water enough to make a structure watertight, or was i misundertsanding him? the tank he has made has held water for 5 months with no apparent leakage, and with little cost i would assume

[IMHO]

i looked at the water tank the builders built on the land when they first arrived. it is a simple rectangular tank made of breeze block, then a 1cm or so lining of concrete within, and then a 2 mm lining of quite a dark grey concrete type material, that has been rendered on. i guess this 2mm layer is what keeps the water in

i asked the builder what it was they would have used (the original guy who built it is not there at the minute) and he said "boo"

"boo" is concrete is it not? he said "boo le naam - mai sai"..... i think he was saying concrete and water - with no sand

is a simple mix of pure concrete and water enough to make a structure watertight, or was i misundertsanding him? the tank he has made has held water for 5 months with no apparent leakage, and with little cost i would assume

I have no idea what he was saying (he was trying to use words/syntax you might understand, not normal Thai), but a Thai builder is going to call cement/concrete either "poon" or "cement". If he was going to say "with no sand" he would likely say: "mai sai sai" (not put sand).

The Weber products I linked to earlier in the thread look like dark gray cement, use no sand (straight mix with water), and usually are brushed on like paint, but around 2mm thick per layer. Two coats at least 12 hours apart, and with strokes criss-crossed for each coat.

Edited January 9, 2015 by IMHO

[UKJASE]

i looked at the water tank the builders built on the land when they first arrived. it is a simple rectangular tank made of breeze block, then a 1cm or so lining of concrete within, and then a 2 mm lining of quite a dark grey concrete type material, that has been rendered on. i guess this 2mm layer is what keeps the water in

i asked the builder what it was they would have used (the original guy who built it is not there at the minute) and he said "boo"

"boo" is concrete is it not? he said "boo le naam - mai sai"..... i think he was saying concrete and water - with no sand

is a simple mix of pure concrete and water enough to make a structure watertight, or was i misundertsanding him? the tank he has made has held water for 5 months with no apparent leakage, and with little cost i would assume

I have no idea what he was saying (he was trying to use words/syntax you might understand, not normal Thai), but a Thai builder is going to call cement/concrete either "poon" or "cement". If he was going to say "with no sand" he would likely say: "mai sai sai" (not put sand).

The Weber products I linked to earlier in the thread look like dark gray cement, use no sand (straight mix with water), and usually are brushed on like paint, but around 2mm thick per layer. Two coats at least 12 hours apart, and with strokes criss-crossed for each coat.

This builder is burmese too, and my ears are very untuned to tonal languages, so i am not surprised you didnt understand IMHO

ok mate, i will get some of that weber stuff tomo. have you used it before? how much is it do you know?

[IMHO]

i looked at the water tank the builders built on the land when they first arrived. it is a simple rectangular tank made of breeze block, then a 1cm or so lining of concrete within, and then a 2 mm lining of quite a dark grey concrete type material, that has been rendered on. i guess this 2mm layer is what keeps the water in

i asked the builder what it was they would have used (the original guy who built it is not there at the minute) and he said "boo"

"boo" is concrete is it not? he said "boo le naam - mai sai"..... i think he was saying concrete and water - with no sand

is a simple mix of pure concrete and water enough to make a structure watertight, or was i misundertsanding him? the tank he has made has held water for 5 months with no apparent leakage, and with little cost i would assume

I have no idea what he was saying (he was trying to use words/syntax you might understand, not normal Thai), but a Thai builder is going to call cement/concrete either "poon" or "cement". If he was going to say "with no sand" he would likely say: "mai sai sai" (not put sand).

The Weber products I linked to earlier in the thread look like dark gray cement, use no sand (straight mix with water), and usually are brushed on like paint, but around 2mm thick per layer. Two coats at least 12 hours apart, and with strokes criss-crossed for each coat.

This builder is burmese too, and my ears are very untuned to tonal languages, so i am not surprised you didnt understand IMHO

ok mate, i will get some of that weber stuff tomo. have you used it before? how much is it do you know?

Yep, have used the Weber Dry.Tex before. Cost works out around 120 Baht per sqm. You should check with the Weber experts at the store though - one of the other products might be better suited/cheaper for your application.

Edited January 9, 2015 by IMHO

[leo202]

UKJASE, I bult a cement pond a few years ago and had the same problem wondering what to seal it with, after looking at acrylic pond paints in the uk I came back to thailand and searched around for days trying to find a paint that had the same or near enough the same. The nearest I could find was the roof tile and floor paint so I went with it. Four years on its still ok and I've had no leaks. I have 3 ponds now all cement

[UKJASE]

UKJASE, I bult a cement pond a few years ago and had the same problem wondering what to seal it with, after looking at acrylic pond paints in the uk I came back to thailand and searched around for days trying to find a paint that had the same or near enough the same. The nearest I could find was the roof tile and floor paint so I went with it. Four years on its still ok and I've had no leaks. I have 3 ponds now all cementImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1421051177.534891.jpgImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1421051222.122320.jpgImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1421051277.436406.jpg

great looking ponds Leo. they look big enough to be swimming pools. you must be tempted to jump in for a dip on a hot day. do you have fish in there?

can you remember what company's paint you used mate, or give me some more details please. it has to be acrylic paint you say?

[billd766]

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One of the products form here should do the trick:

http://www.weberthai.com/en/waterproofing-products.html

It would depend on the coverage and the price as there is about 600 sq/mtr to cover but to what depth I don't know.

I looked up I file I did a couple of years ago of some water tanks made from concrete and using 600 sq/mtr as the area and 10cm (4 inches) as the thickness I would need about 60 cu/mtr of concrete. Ready mix came in at 1,450 baht per cu/mtr and the cost for the fishpond would come to about 87,000 baht plus labour. It wouldn't need to be neat and tidy but then I would probably need to use the roof tile and floor paint below and I have no idea of the cost of that.

In the wet season it mostly fills with the runoff from the hills behind the land and if I were to fill it from empty I would probably need at least 500 cu/mtr from the local water supply which is perhaps what we use in a year plus I would need to top it up constantlyespecially in the hot dry times.

UKJASE, I bult a cement pond a few years ago and had the same problem wondering what to seal it with, after looking at acrylic pond paints in the uk I came back to thailand and searched around for days trying to find a paint that had the same or near enough the same. The nearest I could find was the roof tile and floor paint so I went with it. Four years on its still ok and I've had no leaks. I have 3 ponds now all cementImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1421051177.534891.jpgImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1421051222.122320.jpgImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1421051277.436406.jpg

Can you remember the price you paid for the paint please?

[billd766]

Another double post.

Sorry.

Edited January 12, 2015 by billd766

[leo202]

UKJASE, the wife just got me a tub today from global house 480b. I've used 3 different brands but turbo brand seems to be the toughest. I have tilapia in the oval pond now and catfish in the square pond, you can see the catfish in the photos of the rectangular pond all bunched together, I just put them in that day.

[UKJASE]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

One of the products form here should do the trick:

http://www.weberthai.com/en/waterproofing-products.html

It would depend on the coverage and the price as there is about 600 sq/mtr to cover but to what depth I don't know.

I looked up I file I did a couple of years ago of some water tanks made from concrete and using 600 sq/mtr as the area and 10cm (4 inches) as the thickness I would need about 60 cu/mtr of concrete. Ready mix came in at 1,450 baht per cu/mtr and the cost for the fishpond would come to about 87,000 baht plus labour. It wouldn't need to be neat and tidy but then I would probably need to use the roof tile and floor paint below and I have no idea of the cost of that.

In the wet season it mostly fills with the runoff from the hills behind the land and if I were to fill it from empty I would probably need at least 500 cu/mtr from the local water supply which is perhaps what we use in a year plus I would need to top it up constantlyespecially in the hot dry times.

UKJASE, I bult a cement pond a few years ago and had the same problem wondering what to seal it with, after looking at acrylic pond paints in the uk I came back to thailand and searched around for days trying to find a paint that had the same or near enough the same. The nearest I could find was the roof tile and floor paint so I went with it. Four years on its still ok and I've had no leaks. I have 3 ponds now all cementImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1421051177.534891.jpgImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1421051222.122320.jpgImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1421051277.436406.jpg

Can you remember the price you paid for the paint please?

that is some big water tank you have there mate!! 500 m3 = a pond 10 m x 5m wide and a depth of 10 m!! that isnt a water tank, it's a reservoir

Thanks Leo - i will go and look for some of the Turbo roof paint you talk about - i would definitely rather paint it, than skim it with a concrete type mix, as my skimming abilities are poor

[leo202]

UKJASE

[leo202]

UKJASE, check out canuckamuck's thread out. Concrete tanks for fish.

[leo202]

And yes, now and then we take a dip.

[billd766]

I was clearing out some rubbish from my shed this morning and found this stuff. I have no idea how long I have had it though.

[maxtwo]

I used to add pva glue to the render to help with the water proofing.

[leo202]

I was clearing out some rubbish from my shed this morning and found this stuff. I have no idea how long I have had it though.

DSCF4384 resized.jpg DSCF4385 resized.jpg

DSCF4387 resized.jpg DSCF4389 resized.jpg

Can you tell me where you bought it from please mate?

[IMHO]

UKJASE, I bult a cement pond a few years ago and had the same problem wondering what to seal it with, after looking at acrylic pond paints in the uk I came back to thailand and searched around for days trying to find a paint that had the same or near enough the same. The nearest I could find was the roof tile and floor paint so I went with it. Four years on its still ok and I've had no leaks. I have 3 ponds now all cementImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1421051177.534891.jpgImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1421051222.122320.jpgImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1421051277.436406.jpg

That's a really cool solution, makes me want to try it

Thanks!

[BillyBobThai]

I have heard of people using latex or acrylic paint added to cement and sand mixture with a small amount of water.

[wonder6281]

Interesting topic because I am in the early stages of building an above ground Koi pond.

Building the structure from brick, then render, then thought about the finish and paint has been considered.

Given I am not up to that stage yet, I have found the advice here excellent.

My tank will be 5M x 1.4M x .8M deep.