Small Holder Farming

[dukes]

Hi guys,

My Thai wife and myself are intending to move back to her village district shortly to start up a small holding business producing and distributing eggs to local outlets/markets etc.

Does anyone have any advise/pro's or cons? Comments welcome.

[Pattayaman]

Hi guys,

My Thai wife and myself are intending to move back to her village district shortly to start up a small holding business producing and distributing eggs to local outlets/markets etc.

Does anyone have any advise/pro's or cons? Comments welcome.

A friend of mine just outside Pattaya set up with 20,000 hens and all new buildings to produce and sell eggs,6 months later he has had to cull all the birds and lost everything

[dukes]

Hi guys,

My Thai wife and myself are intending to move back to her village district shortly to start up a small holding business producing and distributing eggs to local outlets/markets etc.

Does anyone have any advise/pro's or cons? Comments welcome.

A friend of mine just outside Pattaya set up with 20,000 hens and all new buildings to produce and sell eggs,6 months later he has had to cull all the birds and lost everything

Thanks - thats really made my day!! I assume that was to do with 'Bird flu'. However, my

enterprise is not expected to be that size, more like 500 max. which is more personel and controllable.

[chownah]

Sure, raising eggs can be done. It's a job tending to 500 hens. The thing to remember is that any agricultural enterprise like this one can be done by any number of Thai people all over Thailand so the profit margin will be kept low by the competition. If it was really easy to sell eggs and get rich then your neighbor would go into business and undercut your price.....it all balances out. This doesn't mean that you can't make a living doing it...I'm just trying to say that its a business and you'll need to work at it to stay competitive and keep it happening.

I'd investigate the possibility of growing your own feed. Many people in my village find that if they raise animals by buying all the feed that they don't really make much money because it all goes for the feed.

Edited August 15, 2006 by chownah

[dukes]

Sure, raising eggs can be done. It's a job tending to 500 hens. The thing to remember is that any agricultural enterprise like this one can be done by any number of Thai people all over Thailand so the profit margin will be kept low by the competition. If it was really easy to sell eggs and get rich then your neighbor would go into business and undercut your price.....it all balances out. This doesn't mean that you can't make a living doing it...I'm just trying to say that its a business and you'll need to work at it to stay competitive and keep it happening.

I'd investigate the possibility of growing your own feed. Many people in my village find that if they raise animals by buying all the feed that they don't really make much money because it all goes for the feed.

Thanks for that pointer, The land we have is approx 5 rai and would be able to support a feed crop,

perhaps my next question should be to 'maizefarmer' or any other with the Knowledge who could advise on the best growable crop for free range poultry?

[RamdomChances]

Dukes, are you set on Chickens ? How about pigs ? I've always thought doing some "moo baa" wild pig would be quite a good little scheme. It fetches a fair bit more/kg than normal pork and the thais love it.

How many eggs would you recon you'd get with 500 chickens ?

You will probably have staff costs, food costs, fuel cost ect

Try and have a good look at all of that

[chownah]

Is free range poultry raising allowed in Thailand?...I mean more than a couple dozen for personal consumption?

[Jeff1]

The price of eggs has gone up alot over that past few years due the the bird flu . less chickens , less eggs and the Thais love their eggs .

[dukes]

The price of eggs has gone up alot over that past few years due the the bird flu . less chickens , less eggs and the Thais love their eggs .

Random Chances - I have considered rearing a few pigs and think it would be another line of

income along with ducks, fruit/veg growing and the poultry/eggs. We are both in our mid fifty's

and would be taking this on as a secondary source of income to our pensions.

I know this won't make us rich but hopefully pay our way without dipping into our reserves.

As Jeff1 mentioned, I believe eggs to hold a good price, and by keeping out costs to a minimum

we should be able to make a small profit. Generally and average yeild of egg production assuming

the chickens to be cared for and fed/watered properly should be 1 egg/bird/day on average.

Therefore I would be expecting to acheive a minimum of say 400 eggs per day to retail.

[Maizefarmer]

Why not ostriches - I bought 12 chicks at 8 weeks old about 16 months back on a "hobby" basis.

Cost then: Baht 2800 (each) = Baht 33 600

Value now: Males x 4 Baht 18 000 (each) 72 000

Females x 8 Baht 12 000 (each) 96 000

Total: 168 000

Theoretical Profit: Baht Baht 134 400

Thats their value live. Slaughtered they would be a worth a lot more, and yes there is a market for there leather in Thailand - which is worth more than their meat (and their is a Thai market for that as well as the feathers).

They are susceptiable to bird flu - just like chickens - but can be vaccinated (which would obviosuly be the way to go with such a high value product).

Feed Costs: Haven't a clue - they were brought up on exactly the same forage diet (always fresh cut though) as the cattle (mixtures of maize and various forage grasses well chopped up). The only extra they have had is a regular dose of commercial vitamin additive to their fresh water (same stuff Thai chickenfarmers mix with the water they feed chickens), and the occassional sack of crushed shellfish shells (fresh water or marine - crab shells, oyster shells, mussel shells ect ect ...) to add extra roughage for their stomachs.

I've had no health problems with them - wish I could get that return on a cow over the same period of time.

Oh, land required: all kept together on 6 rai of land - but I am told you can keep 100 - 200 on that amount of land - only need to give "pairs" their own patch if you want them to breed.:

As for chicken/egg farming: its all been said - do your maths, do your homework, understand your market blah blah, blah blah......

Tim

Edited August 16, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[dukes]

Why not ostriches - I bought 12 chicks at 8 weeks old about 16 months back on a "hobby" basis.

Cost then: Baht 2800 (each) = Baht 33 600

Value now: Males x 4 Baht 18 000 (each) 72 000

Females x 8 Baht 12 000 (each) 96 000

Total: 168 000

Theoretical Profit: Baht Baht 134 400

Thats their value live. Slaughtered they would be a worth a lot more, and yes there is a market for there leather in Thailand - which is worth more than their meat (and their is a Thai market for that as well as the feathers).

They are susceptiable to bird flu - just like chickens - but can be vaccinated (which would obviosuly be the way to go with such a high value product).

Feed Costs: Haven't a clue - they were brought up on exactly the same forage diet (always fresh cut though) as the cattle (mixtures of maize and various forage grasses well chopped up). The only extra they have had is a regular dose of commercial vitamin additive to their fresh water (same stuff Thai chickenfarmers mix with the water they feed chickens), and the occassional sack of crushed shellfish shells (fresh water or marine - crab shells, oyster shells, mussel shells ect ect ...) to add extra roughage for their stomachs.

I've had no health problems with them - wish I could get that return on a cow over the same period of time.

Oh, land required: all kept together on 6 rai of land - but I am told you can keep 100 - 200 on that amount of land - only need to give "pairs" their own patch if you want them to breed.:

As for chicken/egg farming: its all been said - do your maths, do your homework, understand your market blah blah, blah blah......

Tim

[dukes]

Why not ostriches - I bought 12 chicks at 8 weeks old about 16 months back on a "hobby" basis.

Cost then: Baht 2800 (each) = Baht 33 600

Value now: Males x 4 Baht 18 000 (each) 72 000

Females x 8 Baht 12 000 (each) 96 000

Total: 168 000

Theoretical Profit: Baht Baht 134 400

Thats their value live. Slaughtered they would be a worth a lot more, and yes there is a market for there leather in Thailand - which is worth more than their meat (and their is a Thai market for that as well as the feathers).

They are susceptiable to bird flu - just like chickens - but can be vaccinated (which would obviosuly be the way to go with such a high value product).

Feed Costs: Haven't a clue - they were brought up on exactly the same forage diet (always fresh cut though) as the cattle (mixtures of maize and various forage grasses well chopped up). The only extra they have had is a regular dose of commercial vitamin additive to their fresh water (same stuff Thai chickenfarmers mix with the water they feed chickens), and the occassional sack of crushed shellfish shells (fresh water or marine - crab shells, oyster shells, mussel shells ect ect ...) to add extra roughage for their stomachs.

I've had no health problems with them - wish I could get that return on a cow over the same period of time.

Oh, land required: all kept together on 6 rai of land - but I am told you can keep 100 - 200 on that amount of land - only need to give "pairs" their own patch if you want them to breed.:

As for chicken/egg farming: its all been said - do your maths, do your homework, understand your market blah blah, blah blah......

Tim

Maizefarmer - Thanks for your input, greatly appreciated, I had never of considered ostriches

but will for sure look into this as it seems to be a viable addition to my options. What sort of

housing/enclosure would they need?

[Maizefarmer]

I put up a 2 x 4 open structure - tin roof about 10m x 8m - about 3.5m off the ground (ostriches get tall!), but no sides to it - totally open. Just so that they had cover from the mid-day sun, and they used it a lot.

The water trough with constant dripping freash water - just as important as it is with cows if not more so - was placed underneath this covering.

Ground should be grassed ideally, but if not bare ground will do.

Go over the ground with a fine toothcomb and remove every bit of broken glass, plastic, wire ect............... ###### birds will swallow anything (had one take my pipe out my top pocket and swallow it - and anything shiny like a cigerrette lighter - it'll be gone in a flash).

Leave all the stones on the ground - even the small ones - ostriches will recycle these through there digeestive system and use them as "grinders" in their stomachs.

Water Water Water - can't stress enough the importance of FRESH WATER - either have it running or change it twice daily.

I am not the person to give you "professional" advise if you are going to do this commercially, you need to go off and speak to the guys from CP Group, or one of the Uni's that have some knowldege.

There is a ton of info on the net - very commercially orientated, which to be honest, I did not pay 2 hoots of attention to - other than establishing that they needed a certain amount of space and x, y and z amount of various nutirents/protein to grow which I could get from my forage and a certain amount of commercial vitamin added to the water.

I made sure they were vaccinated when I purchased them.

I done some basic sums and took a brief look at the market - the indication was it is viable - so its something I may well try out in a couple of years time - I want to wait and see what happens when they start laying eggs and what the success rate of that side of it is.

Tim

[swissie]

Nothing wrong with Farming if you can do it on a large scale if you are in it for the money and can come up with the initial investement. (Can be considerable.)

Otherwise: Every Taxi-Driver seems to be a small scale ex-farmer from the Isaan and his daughter is working in a bar in Pattaya.

Self explanatory.

Cheers.

[Jeff1]

Nothing wrong with Farming if you can do it on a large scale if you are in it for the money and can come up with the initial investement. (Can be considerable.)

Otherwise: Every Taxi-Driver seems to be a small scale ex-farmer from the Isaan and his daughter is working in a bar in Pattaya.

Self explanatory.

Cheers.

Well, you sure got Isaan figured out, don't you .

[frankafey]

I found this interesting site after listening to a story today on NPR about sustainable farming

www.sare.org/

[Maizefarmer]

Frankafey - couple of nice articles there - I liked the one about Metal/Steel in the Field - thanks for that link.

Dukes

Okay - some feedback from a neighbour who has an egg farm a few km's down the road.

Question - can you make a profit from 500 hundred hens?

As a hobby with alternative forms of income coming in - fine.

As a commercial enterprize for all income, no.

You could start with 500 hens - to see what involved but untill you get to around 3000 - 4000 hensyou won't be seeing a profit. ...... and this is from a guy who lives a pretty modest Thai rural lifestyle.

He gets on average 2800 eggs a day (from 3600 hens), uses family labour (to keep costs down)

Has a contract for all production - they go to a petfood factory and bakery.

All feed is commercial (only way he says he can sustain viable egg production rates).

Clears out between 10 - 15 dead hens a day (a natural & within average daily loss for Thai egg farms ).

Gets good quality stock from a guy who imports from Malaysia (these are the big rusty red colured hens you see -or don't because the real big commercial farms keep them in closed barns)

Monthly earnings - "San - San Qua" - meaning "Bht 100k to 100k & a bit" p/mnth (after all expenses associated with maintaining the hens).

Something to think about...

Tim

Edited August 17, 2006 by Maizefarmer

[visarunner]

It's not that easy , last year I did some checking on Chickenfarms and it's far to dangerous as over night you could loose everything.

Open farming is prohibited , you must have a Closed Structure with certain requirements.

Most chicken farmers are contractors for the big companies , like Saha Group and CP.

Such contracts are safe , but leave you with a obvious limited income , each 45-60 days you can sell the chicks back to them.

Figured out to earn around 90k-120k /per month with 3 mio THB investment .

Edited August 17, 2006 by visarunner

[Maizefarmer]

Visarunner - 3Mil Bht investment.

Break that down for me - where does the 3mill go, how many chickens do you have to sell to get that +/- 100K every 6 weeks or so ect ect..........

[RamdomChances]

Monthly earnings - "San - San Qua" - meaning "Bht 100k to 100k & a bit" p/mnth (after all expenses associated with maintaining the hens).

To be honest if he's anything like most of the thai farmers I know, I'd take that as a very ball park figure as they usually are poor at any actual book keeping and often have little actual ides of their costs

Visarunner, your I think your talking about actual chicken farms (meat) the op's looking at eggs. A mate of mine used to have a 20,000 bird shed and did'nt make anything like the money you are talking about....yes and he lost the lot.

I think MF sumed it up on another thread about your "motivation" If you are looking for a little additional income, something to do with your time ect yes it's probably viable, as a purley commercial enterprise probably not.

As a crop to grow I would probably thought Maize/sorgham (they double crop them here as sorgham does'nt need as much water) or some other sort of seed crop would be the best as anything else I would imagine you would have to process.....not that I know much about chicken food, but they do feed the "gai ban" around here on Maize

[Mossfinn]

Why not ostriches -

I would never have though of Ostriches in a million years, I might just try that with the Brother in Law, small time just to see how it pans out, if it gives some income it will be a bonus if it goes belly-up just another lesson learnt.

And if it works maybe something to grow in the future after a lot more research.

Good Thread, thanks

Moss

[teletiger]

Dukes.

Have you thought about a dragonfruit plantation? 5 rai would be a nice size,easily managed by 2 people. They are only active for 6 months of the year......lots of time off You can plant 750 posts on 5 rai, each post producing 100 kilos of fruit per season (if managed properly) Each post will cost you c. 300 baht to set up. Only needs watering twice a week in the dry season, mainly pest free, so very low maintainance. Year one will probably get you 10 kilos per post. Year two 50/75 kilos, year three 100+ kilos. Plants last 20 years, and are very easily propagated. (a side line would be selling plants) It can be intercropped with anything (as long as the dragonfruit is not shaded) 5 rai will give you 70+tons per year. Taiwan dragonfruit (the red fleshed type) this year is fetching 20 Baht per kilo. You'll need a good barbed wire fence as people tend to help themselves.

regards

[Maizefarmer]

TT

How many fruit (individual) per kilo on average?

Tim

[chownah]

Teletiger,

You say they ONLY need watering twice per week in the dry season. If they need water twice per week I would not view this as minimal...but sort of maximal.......did you mean to say twice per month?....or is it in fact twice per week which means that it is a water intensive crop.

Chownah

[teletiger]

Tim,

3 maximum. A certain fat girl sitting beside me says 2, so what do I know. This is where the management comes in. They must be fertilized every month. 80/100gms 15-15-15 per post. By the way, 1 post is 4 plants.

Chownah,

How lazy are you Twice a week you turn on a tap. Once a month you walk round and chuck 2 handfuls of NPK on every post. Job done. Nah...I think we are at cross purposes here. I was talking about low maintainance as in labour.

As far as the watering goes, a big danger to dragonfruit is overwatering. I say twice a week, because you need to keep them growing to get maximum value for the next season. The bigger they grow, the more fruit they will produce. Being a cactus type, if you forget to water them for a month, they don't care. They will just shrink a bit. I've got a few pictures on my laptop, I'll transfer them over and post them, to give you a better idea.

regards

[Nawtilus]

Is dragon fruit the cactus looking plant you see dangling from posts ? What does the fruit actually look like ?

Ostriches, I remember in Oz years ago when a pair of birds adult mature and ready to breed were costing around 120 to $130,000, I think chicks were around $30,000.

Maybe the problem with Ostriches here is slaughtering them. They have fine skins and like crocodiles need an expert to skin them so the hide is not cut or damaged in the slightest.

Maybe start with a rabbit farm and then with experience on skinning them to perfection, move onto ostriches.

[teletiger]

regards

[Maizefarmer]

Nawtilus

Those astro-prices for Ostriches are over, but yes – in the beginning it was like that.

I should have added – there are a few different types of ostriches – the ones I have are African Blues (which give the most meat, leather and feathers)

A mature breeding pair in Thailand can fetch you around Bht100k – and I expect to have 2 pairs of my current lot breeding next year – so add Bht 200k to those earlier figures I gave – starts looking really attractive.

TT

hel_l – that irrigation system is a Thai design for sure (!)

Those are ferro-cement pipes used to support the plants?

How long for them to get to that growth stage – or have they just been stuck in as cut offs from established plants?

What about keeping the land clear of weeds and grass – once those sprinklers get growing the grass and weeds are going to shoot up everywhere.

And how long will each plant keep producing for?

Tim

[bina]

ostriches,

the bottom fell out a while ago at least for the growers in the middle east; all the farms here went out of business (last year) so i got a freebie pair for the zoo... have eaten the male, and the female died of natural causes... never again will i have a male ostrich without proper facilties for enclosing him etc......argghh!!

[teletiger]

Tim,

You're right about the irrigation. We left it to the staff Lessons we learn, eh. I'll go with a simple drip feed to each post next time. You're spot about the posts. 2 metres long...50 cms buried. 50 Baht each.

One thing, they're upside down. My orders

Some Bangkok High-so offered us squillions for the whole plot last November, so we sold it. We intercropped it with papaya just before we sold it. It's not far from our feedlot, so I'll take some photos of it when I pass next.

I was told by the guy who sold us the seed stock that they last 20 years, but their ease of propagation negates any worries there. They grow very fast. I would think after 2/3 years you would need to prune them, as they can shade themselves and the spikes can make harvesting difficult.

We bought them as 60 cm saplings. 55 Baht each.

They come as red skin, white flesh, from vietnam 15 baht each

red skin, red flesh, from Taiwan, 55 Baht each.

Yellow skin. white flesh, from??. Cost??....too small to be commercially viable.

The season runs from mid april to mid September, after which they go dormant. They are guided by the length of daylight. (I read that one farmer in Taiwan is trying spotlights to try to extend the season)

You can harvest the fruit roughly every two weeks.

hey Bina, what did the ostrich taste like?

Regards