JohnnyJazz Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Renovation is soon due and I want to take advantage of the occasion to install ethernet cable and sockets in every room of a three storey house. I'm looking for advises from people having experience of this kind of project. Thanks J.J. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) First off, don't be tempted to save a few hundred Baht on Cat5 cable - spend the small amount extra on Cat6a (if you have single runs > 50M) or Cat6 (if no single run >50M). Cat6 gives you the ability to go to 10gbps, but even at slower speeds will perform better. 300Mhz is the base spec for Cat6 - if you can find higher rated cable for around the same price, grab it. Second, buy quality RJ45 wall sockets (e.g. Clipsal, Haco), and make sure you (or you contractor) use a proper "Krone" style tool to push the wires all the way into the vampire contacts on the back of the sockets. Try to avoid bundling ethernet cables with power cables, and if you must run parallel to power, try to keep them 6" away - if you can't, higher quality Cat6 will get you by though. When adding sockets to rooms, try to think about all possible furniture layouts, and don't be afraid to use 2 or even 3 sockets per room - in then end more sockets beats having ethernet cables running across the floor. Also, put lots of though up front which room is going to house the router/switch, because that location is where all runs go to, so is the hardest to change. That's about it - it's pretty simple Edited January 12, 2015 by IMHO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The easiest way would be to get an 8 port router, then you can run cables to 8 locations. Then from that location you can install access points, which will also boost your home wifi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The easiest way would be to get an 8 port router, then you can run cables to 8 locations. Then from that location you can install access points, which will also boost your home wifi. If you have ethernet, wifi is only for phones & tablets though Nothing beats the 'it just works, and it always works" nature of ethernet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 The access points can have ports on them as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cigar7 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) When you buy the cat 6 cable, make sure it is "certified", it should be printed onto the cable jacket. Also, make sure you get cat 6 sockets and plugs, they are different than the cat 5. Locate a port wherever you have a TV or may want a TV in the future. Many new TVs can use the internet directly. Also useful if you have media server, or decide to hookup IP CCTV cameras. If you don't have IP cameras currently, consider getting some, especially for exterior monitoring, and a NAS to store the video. Get a good quality gigabit router, at least 8 port, allow for 25% expansion, based on planned current utilization. Edited January 12, 2015 by cigar7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJazz Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 First off, don't be tempted to save a few hundred Baht on Cat5 cable - spend the small amount extra on Cat6a (if you have single runs > 50M) or Cat6 (if no single run >50M). Cat6 gives you the ability to go to 10gbps, but even at slower speeds will perform better. 300Mhz is the base spec for Cat6 - if you can find higher rated cable for around the same price, grab it. Second, buy quality RJ45 wall sockets (e.g. Clipsal, Haco), and make sure you (or you contractor) use a proper "Krone" style tool to push the wires all the way into the vampire contacts on the back of the sockets. Try to avoid bundling ethernet cables with power cables, and if you must run parallel to power, try to keep them 6" away - if you can't, higher quality Cat6 will get you by though. When adding sockets to rooms, try to think about all possible furniture layouts, and don't be afraid to use 2 or even 3 sockets per room - in then end more sockets beats having ethernet cables running across the floor. Also, put lots of though up front which room is going to house the router/switch, because that location is where all runs go to, so is the hardest to change. That's about it - it's pretty simple I don't think it 's going to be possible to keep ethernet cable even 6" from power cable as sockets are side by side. We are talking renovation, not a new house. We will use as much as possible existing cable path to keep cost down. The "technical room" is going to be next to the garage in the ground floor. I plan to have a cabinet where all cables will end, then switches and routers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkinhades Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 If possible run your cat 6 in conduit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJazz Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 When you buy the cat 6 cable, make sure it is "certified", it should be printed onto the cable jacket. Also, make sure you get cat 6 sockets and plugs, they are different than the cat 5. Locate a port wherever you have a TV or may want a TV in the future. Many new TVs can use the internet directly. Also useful if you have media server, or decide to hookup IP CCTV cameras. If you don't have IP cameras currently, consider getting some, especially for exterior monitoring, and a NAS to store the video. Get a good quality gigabit router, at least 8 port, allow for 25% expansion, based on planned current utilization. That's the plan :-) . I even planned sockets in the ceiling in some location for the IP cameras ;-) Regarding the sockets, I'll probably buy Haco brand because they have more products in their range that the competitors. For the cable it's going to be cat6, I've to make sure they don't try to save money with some sub standard cable, but for the plugs so far I haven't seen any cat5 or cat6 certification ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJazz Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Regarding the ethernet cabinet, any idea where I can by a good quality one at reasonable price ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cigar7 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 When you buy the cat 6 cable, make sure it is "certified", it should be printed onto the cable jacket. Also, make sure you get cat 6 sockets and plugs, they are different than the cat 5. Locate a port wherever you have a TV or may want a TV in the future. Many new TVs can use the internet directly. Also useful if you have media server, or decide to hookup IP CCTV cameras. If you don't have IP cameras currently, consider getting some, especially for exterior monitoring, and a NAS to store the video. Get a good quality gigabit router, at least 8 port, allow for 25% expansion, based on planned current utilization. That's the plan :-) . I even planned sockets in the ceiling in some location for the IP cameras ;-) Regarding the sockets, I'll probably buy Haco brand because they have more products in their range that the competitors. For the cable it's going to be cat6, I've to make sure they don't try to save money with some sub standard cable, but for the plugs so far I haven't seen any cat5 or cat6 certification ??? You may also consider getting a patch panel, (16 or 24 ports), cat 6 approved. This will give the flexibility to patch into the router, only used circuits. No sense in powering multiple sockets in one room if only 1 socket is in use. Also, some circuits may require POE, like the cameras, so you may choose to have 2 routers. I started with 2 cameras and now have 6 cameras. I haven't seen "certified" sockets and plugs either, just labeled as cat 6. But there is cat 6 labeled cable that is "certified" and cat 6 cable with no "certified" markings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) @OP, if you're going to be using IP cameras using POE (power over ethernet), bear in mind that some brands have non-standard POE voltage requirements. Generally speaking, you want to buy a POE switch from the same manufacturer as your cameras (to be sure), and you won't want to connect anything other than IP camera's to those switches either (most are only 100mbps, and running non-standard POE to other devices is scary). This will impact your network design as each camera will go to a POE switch, which then runs a single UTP cable to your main gigabit switche(s)/router. Also, as Cigar7 noted, plan in all possible expansion now. For example, you might actually want several ports at each TV location (think about devices like: Smart TV's, IPTV boxes, Bluray Players, Games Consoles, Smart AVR's and Network media players) - if you're unable to have multiple ethernet runs to these locations, you could of course get by with a cheap gigabit switch in each of your AV racks though, but it's messier. I got it right in our living room (8 ethernet ports to the AV rack), but messed it up in the bedrooms (only a single ethernet port each), and now have an additional 6x 5-port switches as a result As for plugs, they're all RJ45, whether you're running cat5 at 100mbps or 10gbe - all that matters is that they are decent quality. Edited January 12, 2015 by IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cigar7 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Get the plugs with the wire loading bar, it makes it easier to get the wires into the right position in the plug. Also consider getting shielded plugs. Maybe even move up to cat 6a cable. Edited January 12, 2015 by cigar7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 That's the plan :-) . I even planned sockets in the ceiling in some location for the IP cameras ;-) Check your IP cameras before you go buying/installing ethernet sockets for them... Most have 30-50cm long "pigtails" coming out of the cam that connects directly to the end of an ethernet cable, so a wall-type socket isn't necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Get the plugs with the wire loading bar, it makes it easier to get the wires into the right position in the plug. Also consider getting shielded plugs. Maybe even move up to cat 6a cable. No need for cat6a or shielded plugs/sockets unless there's a run > 50M.. Regular cat6/sockets/plugs will support 10gbe at <50M no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cigar7 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Also get yourself a cable tester. Worth its weight in gold, but costs only about 100-200 baht. Edited January 12, 2015 by cigar7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cigar7 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Get the plugs with the wire loading bar, it makes it easier to get the wires into the right position in the plug. Also consider getting shielded plugs. Maybe even move up to cat 6a cable. No need for cat6a or shielded plugs/sockets unless there's a run > 50M.. Regular cat6/sockets/plugs will support 10gbe at <50M no problems. You're absolutely correct 6a and shielded plugs are not required for <50m runs. However, if the run is beside one or more devices that generate lots of RF radiation magnetic fields, and adjacent to AC power lines, consider the 6a, and shielded plugs for that run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJazz Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Also get yourself a cable tester. Worth its weight in gold, but costs only about 100-200 baht. Top of my shopping list for my next visit to my favorite computer mall You may also consider getting a patch panel, (16 or 24 ports), cat 6 approved. This will give the flexibility to patch into the router, only used circuits. No sense in powering multiple sockets in one room if only 1 socket is in use. Also, some circuits may require POE, like the cameras, so you may choose to have 2 routers. I started with 2 cameras and now have 6 cameras. Agree, that's what I call "ethernet cabinet" in the post above yours. Any idea where to by a good quality one at a reasonable price ? Edited January 12, 2015 by JohnnyJazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJazz Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Woah!, just how many ethernet ports are you anticipating in this house? Patch panels are normally the kind of thing you put in server rooms with hundreds/thousands of ethernet clients - IMHO you're much better off designing a system with a series of distributed low-cost switches in a house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJazz Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Woah!, just how many ethernet ports are you anticipating in this house? Patch panels are normally the kind of thing you put in server rooms with hundreds/thousands of ethernet clients - IMHO you're much better off designing a system with a series of distributed low-cost switches in a house. Roughly around 20 ports, for a beginning. The nework will include computers, an entertainment system, a number of IP cameras and some other home automation devices. As you suggest I first planned to have switches in the ceiling of each floors but then for a number of reasons (including those cited in post 11 and 12) I now believe a patch panel will give me more flexibility. But I'm still in the design phase, all suggestions are most welcomed ( http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/791264-help-needed-home-network-design/ ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cigar7 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Woah!, just how many ethernet ports are you anticipating in this house? Patch panels are normally the kind of thing you put in server rooms with hundreds/thousands of ethernet clients - IMHO you're much better off designing a system with a series of distributed low-cost switches in a house. Roughly around 20 ports, for a beginning. The nework will include computers, an entertainment system, a number of IP cameras and some other home automation devices. As you suggest I first planned to have switches in the ceiling of each floors but then for a number of reasons (including those cited in post 11 and 12) I now believe a patch panel will give me more flexibility. But I'm still in the design phase, all suggestions are most welcomed ( http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/791264-help-needed-home-network-design/ ) For an installation starting at 20 ports, I'd go for the patch panel with 48 ports, resulting in a more professional network design, with ultimate flexibility lots of room for expansion. It's not expensive, find a trendnet TC-P48C6 about US$50-$70 at amazon, list price US$110. Edited January 12, 2015 by cigar7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cigar7 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 Of course you're going need a switch or 2 and the models depend on your budget. Attached is heavy design guide for networks which maybe of value to you. CVD-CampusWiredLANDesignGuide-APR14.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cigar7 Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Here is a nice expensive 24 port switch with POE for lots of ports. And a starter guide for switches. data_sheet_c78-502067.pdf SFE-SGE2xxx_QuickStart.pdf Edited January 12, 2015 by cigar7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerspace Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 100% need patch panel. Hand terminated cables break faster than manufactured cables and you dont want to replace that 50m cable through the painted wall since you changed from one switch to another too often. Patch panels protect your buried cables and allow replaceble patch cables for everyday use. Google thaiinternetwork for a good selection of patch panels, cabinets, racks, connectors, switches and routers. My first stop for all similar projects. Also as recommended go heavy on extra runs now. Even if 100% sure will only ever need a single port, if a critical function add 2 for redundancy. Also since you said 3 story consider a second smaller cabinet half way through. Running lots of long runs gets heavy on the labour, cable and trunking. A strategicly placed 2nd patch panel and switch will shorten a lot of cable runs, reduce risk and increase speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJazz Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 Thanks for the precious advises. And I may need more as things are getting more complicated .... I'm now going room by room to show the electrician where I want the sockets. I'm happy (lucky ?) that he understands what I want to do. He has knowledge about ethernet cabling and surveillance cameras which helps a lot and even if what I ask him to do in the not the average house wiring the fact that he understands what I'm trying to achieve is really an advantage. Basically there will be three networks in the house. A "standard" computer network, a home entertainment network and a security network. I want to have the security network physically separated from the other networks, which means more cables. As Cigar7 suggests, a 48 ports patch panel will be a minimum. @ innerspace : I don't think a second patch panel will be needed. First I don't have the space for it, it's a residential place not an office building. The cable will not be that long anyway. And also for configuration and maintenance purpose, to have all the cables terminated in one place will make things easier. It's my opinion so far but I'm open to discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 There's no need to physically separate the 3 networks - you can achieve the same result with VLAN's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJazz Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 There's no need to physically separate the 3 networks - you can achieve the same result with VLAN's. I'm honestly not fully qualified to argue with you on this point, that's why I asked for help* in the Internet forum (http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/791264-help-needed-home-network-design/) but it is my feeling that a physically separated network is more protected from virus or other malwares than a virtual network. But as I said in the previous post I'm always open to debate and suggestion. * Maybe I will be more lucky here. "I'm looking for help to design and implement a small home network that includes an entertainment and surveillance system with emphasize on security. Remuneration possible. Chaeng Wattana area. Don't hesitate to contact me for more details" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJazz Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) Regarding the sockets, I'll probably buy Haco brand because they have more products in their range that the competitors. For the cable it's going to be cat6, I've to make sure they don't try to save money with some sub standard cable, but for the plugs so far I haven't seen any cat5 or cat6 certification ??? I was wrong. I just checked some of the samples I've with me and while some are without specification I found some with a "CAT 5E" label. Additional question for the wiring specialists here, "A" or "B" ??? _ Edited January 14, 2015 by JohnnyJazz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Regarding the sockets, I'll probably buy Haco brand because they have more products in their range that the competitors. For the cable it's going to be cat6, I've to make sure they don't try to save money with some sub standard cable, but for the plugs so far I haven't seen any cat5 or cat6 certification ??? I was wrong. I just checked some of the samples I've with me and while some are without specification I found some with a "CAT 5E" label. Additional question for the wiring specialists here, "A" or "B" ??? _ It actually doesn't matter - so long as all sockets/patch panels use the same scheme. That said, B is by far the most popular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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