Wiring one's home for computer network

[RichCor]

Regarding the sockets, I'll probably buy Haco brand because they have more products in their range that the competitors. For the cable it's going to be cat6, I've to make sure they don't try to save money with some sub standard cable, but for the plugs so far I haven't seen any cat5 or cat6 certification ???

I was wrong. I just checked some of the samples I've with me and while some are without specification I found some with a "CAT 5E" label.

Additional question for the wiring specialists here, "A" or "B" ???

_

Some say, 568A in homes and 568B in business. Though it makes very little difference if the cable is only being used to convey single Ethernet transmission.

Many institutions multiplex signals over a single cable and like to select what near wire pairs are next to what other wire pairs within the cable.

In reality, so long as both ends of the run are wired the same you won't notice a difference.

TL;(TMI);DR

*** 'Some' older equipment may not function at all without the use of a "Cross-Over Cable". Most newer equipment utilize socket/ports with auto-sensing, also known as Auto MDI-X --- Though I have personally experienced some odd behavior with Auto MDI-X and had to hand-wire a few cross-over cables so the connection worked correctly 24/7.

Edited January 14, 2015 by RichCor

[User3]

Thanks for the precious advises. And I may need more as things are getting more complicated ....

I'm now going room by room to show the electrician where I want the sockets. I'm happy (lucky ?) that he understands what I want to do. He has knowledge about ethernet cabling and surveillance cameras which helps a lot and even if what I ask him to do in the not the average house wiring the fact that he understands what I'm trying to achieve is really an advantage.

Basically there will be three networks in the house. A "standard" computer network, a home entertainment network and a security network. I want to have the security network physically separated from the other networks, which means more cables. As Cigar7 suggests, a 48 ports patch panel will be a minimum.

@ innerspace : I don't think a second patch panel will be needed. First I don't have the space for it, it's a residential place not an office building. The cable will not be that long anyway. And also for configuration and maintenance purpose, to have all the cables terminated in one place will make things easier. It's my opinion so far but I'm open to discussion

We have a two story house with LAN connections in every room, all of which end up in what was supposed to be the 'Maid's Room' where the switch, router, modem etc are located. One thing to keep an eye on given that you are not running the cables yourself is that the installer understands how important long radius bends are in CAT cables and understands the importance of the connection to the sockets. (i.e. smallest amount of exposed wire possible). We found that a number of people are familiar with LAN cables but not with the importance of handling them properly. Another thing to consider is your security network. I'm not sure what you mean by that but in our experience a stand-alone (Bosch in our case) alarm and monitoring system is preferable to having your security running on a home network. It certainly can be done, but why not put it as a stand-alone? They work better, are professionally installed and, if you so desire, monitored although I think most people just route the alarm signals to their own phones and don't bother with paid monitors. I can't see any reason to separate your 'standard' network from your home entertainment network. One thing to consider is to install HDMI cables between rooms. Lots of them. With an HDMI outlet as well as a LAN outlet you have the flexibility of using LAN enabled streaming devices or, as we do, use an HDMI amplifier on the output of the dish receiver and just send the signal around the house that way. Takes a bit of load off of the LAN, if that is an issue. Again, Somchai Electric and Dog Polishing co. probably are not familiar with routing such cables so care needs to be taken in selecting the people to do the install.

For two people we have a 20 port switch and it is about enough for us. But I'd consider that a minimum amount of ports and I'd suggest putting many more sockets than you ever think you will need into the system now while it's in it's embryo stage. Our 'computer area' has 3 sockets and should have had about 6. The kitchen has 2 sockets and should have had about 4, the living room has 2 sockets and should have had 4, the movie room has 2 sockets and should have had 4... it just adds up but maybe with more sockets you invent reasons to use them... who knows?

In any case good luck and hope your cables are ok.

(aside- we had two cables destroyed by the original installers... at least they replaced them.)

If you use NAS at all, they really should have 2 ports per device. I've got 2 QNAP NAS's and that is a total of 4 ports! But the difference in speed is worth it if you are moving large files.

Edited January 14, 2015 by User3

[IMHO]

Thanks for the precious advises. And I may need more as things are getting more complicated ....

I'm now going room by room to show the electrician where I want the sockets. I'm happy (lucky ?) that he understands what I want to do. He has knowledge about ethernet cabling and surveillance cameras which helps a lot and even if what I ask him to do in the not the average house wiring the fact that he understands what I'm trying to achieve is really an advantage.

Basically there will be three networks in the house. A "standard" computer network, a home entertainment network and a security network. I want to have the security network physically separated from the other networks, which means more cables. As Cigar7 suggests, a 48 ports patch panel will be a minimum.

@ innerspace : I don't think a second patch panel will be needed. First I don't have the space for it, it's a residential place not an office building. The cable will not be that long anyway. And also for configuration and maintenance purpose, to have all the cables terminated in one place will make things easier. It's my opinion so far but I'm open to discussion

We have a two story house with LAN connections in every room, all of which end up in what was supposed to be the 'Maid's Room' where the switch, router, modem etc are located. One thing to keep an eye on given that you are not running the cables yourself is that the installer understands how important long radius bends are in CAT cables and understands the importance of the connection to the sockets. (i.e. smallest amount of exposed wire possible). We found that a number of people are familiar with LAN cables but not with the importance of handling them properly. Another thing to consider is your security network. I'm not sure what you mean by that but in our experience a stand-alone (Bosch in our case) alarm and monitoring system is preferable to having your security running on a home network. It certainly can be done, but why not put it as a stand-alone? They work better, are professionally installed and, if you so desire, monitored although I think most people just route the alarm signals to their own phones and don't bother with paid monitors. I can't see any reason to separate your 'standard' network from your home entertainment network. One thing to consider is to install HDMI cables between rooms. Lots of them. With an HDMI outlet as well as a LAN outlet you have the flexibility of using LAN enabled streaming devices or, as we do, use an HDMI amplifier on the output of the dish receiver and just send the signal around the house that way. Takes a bit of load off of the LAN, if that is an issue. Again, Somchai Electric and Dog Polishing co. probably are not familiar with routing such cables so care needs to be taken in selecting the people to do the install.

For two people we have a 20 port switch and it is about enough for us. But I'd consider that a minimum amount of ports and I'd suggest putting many more sockets than you ever think you will need into the system now while it's in it's embryo stage. Our 'computer area' has 3 sockets and should have had about 6. The kitchen has 2 sockets and should have had about 4, the living room has 2 sockets and should have had 4, the movie room has 2 sockets and should have had 4... it just adds up but maybe with more sockets you invent reasons to use them... who knows?

In any case good luck and hope your cables are ok.

(aside- we had two cables destroyed by the original installers... at least they replaced them.)

If you use NAS at all, they really should have 2 ports per device. I've got 2 QNAP NAS's and that is a total of 4 ports! But the difference in speed is worth it if you are moving large files.

Ref: HDMI - for that just run 2x cat6 cables to each place you might want HDMI - then you use a UTP-to-HDMI adaptor, and can rest easy knowing that those long HDMI runs are actually going to work

[JohnnyJazz]

We have a two story house with LAN connections in every room, all of which end up in what was supposed to be the 'Maid's Room' where the switch, router, modem etc are located. One thing to keep an eye on given that you are not running the cables yourself is that the installer understands how important long radius bends are in CAT cables and understands the importance of the connection to the sockets. (i.e. smallest amount of exposed wire possible). We found that a number of people are familiar with LAN cables but not with the importance of handling them properly. Another thing to consider is your security network. I'm not sure what you mean by that but in our experience a stand-alone (Bosch in our case) alarm and monitoring system is preferable to having your security running on a home network. It certainly can be done, but why not put it as a stand-alone? They work better, are professionally installed and, if you so desire, monitored although I think most people just route the alarm signals to their own phones and don't bother with paid monitors. I can't see any reason to separate your 'standard' network from your home entertainment network.

If you use NAS at all, they really should have 2 ports per device. I've got 2 QNAP NAS's and that is a total of 4 ports! But the difference in speed is worth it if you are moving large files.

[JohnnyJazz]

Thanks for the precious advises. And I may need more as things are getting more complicated ....

I'm now going room by room to show the electrician where I want the sockets. I'm happy (lucky ?) that he understands what I want to do. He has knowledge about ethernet cabling and surveillance cameras which helps a lot and even if what I ask him to do in the not the average house wiring the fact that he understands what I'm trying to achieve is really an advantage.

Basically there will be three networks in the house. A "standard" computer network, a home entertainment network and a security network. I want to have the security network physically separated from the other networks, which means more cables. As Cigar7 suggests, a 48 ports patch panel will be a minimum.

@ innerspace : I don't think a second patch panel will be needed. First I don't have the space for it, it's a residential place not an office building. The cable will not be that long anyway. And also for configuration and maintenance purpose, to have all the cables terminated in one place will make things easier. It's my opinion so far but I'm open to discussion

We have a two story house with LAN connections in every room, all of which end up in what was supposed to be the 'Maid's Room' where the switch, router, modem etc are located.

Same configuration for me

One thing to keep an eye on given that you are not running the cables yourself is that the installer understands how important long radius bends are in CAT cables and understands the importance of the connection to the sockets. (i.e. smallest amount of exposed wire possible). We found that a number of people are familiar with LAN cables but not with the importance of handling them properly. Another thing to consider is your security network. I'm not sure what you mean by that but in our experience a stand-alone (Bosch in our case) alarm and monitoring system is preferable to having your security running on a home network. It certainly can be done, but why not put it as a stand-alone? They work better, are professionally installed and, if you so desire, monitored although I think most people just route the alarm signals to their own phones and don't bother with paid monitors.

I don't like 3rd party solution for the same reason I don't like to rely on cloud storage or solution : companies get bankrupt or change business model all the time and if you rely on them for critical application then you are in deep sh_t.

I can't see any reason to separate your 'standard' network from your home entertainment network.

No intention to do so

One thing to consider is to install HDMI cables between rooms. Lots of them. With an HDMI outlet as well as a LAN outlet you have the flexibility of using LAN enabled streaming devices or, as we do, use an HDMI amplifier on the output of the dish receiver and just send the signal around the house that way.

Could you please give some more details about this application, it's not too late to add a few socket and cable if we have the use for it. But also for this kind of application don't you need to install CAT 7 cables ? and so far I haven't found anybody selling CAT 7 cable in Thailand

Takes a bit of load off of the LAN, if that is an issue. Again, Somchai Electric and Dog Polishing co. probably are not familiar with routing such cables so care needs to be taken in selecting the people to do the install.

For two people we have a 20 port switch and it is about enough for us. But I'd consider that a minimum amount of ports and I'd suggest putting many more sockets than you ever think you will need into the system now while it's in it's embryo stage. Our 'computer area' has 3 sockets and should have had about 6. The kitchen has 2 sockets and should have had about 4, the living room has 2 sockets and should have had 4, the movie room has 2 sockets and should have had 4... it just adds up but maybe with more sockets you invent reasons to use them... who knows?

4 ports in the kitchen, what for ? I plan two as well, what do you need the additional 2 ports for ?

In any case good luck Thanks and hope your cables are ok.

(aside- we had two cables destroyed by the original installers... at least they replaced them.)

If you use NAS at all, they really should have 2 ports per device. I've got 2 QNAP NAS's and that is a total of 4 ports! But the difference in speed is worth it if you are moving large files.

Edited January 14, 2015 by JohnnyJazz

[cigar7]

I run a QNAP NAS too, and it has 2 independent gigabyte ports on the back. If you get one, you could use one port for the cameras, and one for other things. Or better yet, get 2 NAS. Just depends on your budget.

Also, for camera video storage, use the western digital purple drives. The purple drives have a custom algorithm for IP camera streams, minimizing lost frames. You'll need a very fast processor on your NAS, preferably a gigabyte port, along with purple drives to make sure no frames get missed.

The WD red drives are recommended for traditional NAS operation.

For the cameras, get ones with at least 2 channels so you can simultaneously, record and live view. You may want to splurge and get cameras with 3 channels to simultaneously, record, live view at home, and live view remotely, like over the internet. Of course each used camera channel takes network bandwidth.

[JohnnyJazz]

^ Thanks a lot.

There are really many things that modern technology allows you to do. As the clock is ticking for me to give the wiring diagram to the contractor I don't have time to study every single solution but at least I would like to have the wiring right so later I won't realize there is something really smart that I can't do because I forgot a stupid cable :-(

[JohnnyJazz]

I plan Ethernet sockets in the ceiling at some strategic location for the IP cameras. Is there any reason that I should also install power sockets knowing that nowadays IP cameras are powered through the ethernet connection ?

[thaimite]

I plan Ethernet sockets in the ceiling at some strategic location for the IP cameras. Is there any reason that I should also install power sockets knowing that nowadays IP cameras are powered through the ethernet connection ?

Pan - Tilt - Zoom cameras generally require an external power source

[JohnnyJazz]

I plan Ethernet sockets in the ceiling at some strategic location for the IP cameras. Is there any reason that I should also install power sockets knowing that nowadays IP cameras are powered through the ethernet connection ?

Pan - Tilt - Zoom cameras generally require an external power source

The cameras I currently have don't need it but I will confirm with the manufacturer for other models, especially outdoor, I may need. Thanks

Edited January 16, 2015 by JohnnyJazz

[JohnnyJazz]

Now an other philosophical question. Landline or no landline ?

Personally I don't remember the last time someone called me on a landline but again one shouldn't be selfish and we should plane for future needs as well.

Your opinion ?

Edited January 16, 2015 by JohnnyJazz

[bankruatsteve]

How will you be getting the internet? Digital subscriber lines (like ADSl) need copper land line.

[Crossy]

+1 steve ^^^

We don't have a landline (none actually available in the village).

Internet initially by TOT WiNet (a WiMAX type solution), now upgraded to TOT FTTX fibre.

We did run cable to the pole outside for a landline but it currently just provides a perch for the sparrows.

[JohnnyJazz]

How will you be getting the internet? Digital subscriber lines (like ADSl) need copper land line.

Not really but sorry I wasn't clear enough I was talking about the use of telephone. Nowadays most people use mobile phone but someone pointed out that some companies still require documents sent by fax but so far I always managed to have them accept a scan sent by email.

So to rephrase my question, should I plan to have a telephone socket in every room as it was done before or just one in the living room will be enough ?

Edited January 16, 2015 by JohnnyJazz

[IMHO]

How will you be getting the internet? Digital subscriber lines (like ADSl) need copper land line.

Not really but sorry I wasn't clear enough I was talking about the use of telephone. Nowadays most people use mobile phone but someone pointed out that some companies still require documents sent by fax but so far I always managed to have them accept a scan sent by email.

So to rephrase my question, should I plan to have a telephone socket in every room as it was done before or just one in the living room will be enough ?

What the other guys are both saying is, ADSL internet requires a copper land line - whether you're going to use the land line for telephony or not - i.e. even if you don't want to use a conventional phone, you might still need a conventional phone line for your broadband internet connection.

As for how many outlets, I'd say if you have a room dedicated as an office, put one there, and then another wherever your routers/switches are. I can't see any reason why you'd have a landline handset in any other rooms these days.

Edited January 16, 2015 by IMHO

[bankruatsteve]

Yeah - it's really amazing that some companies still need a FAX even when they have web sites and email. Anyway, there are many "FAX" services/software available from the web, most of them are free or minimal cost.

[JohnnyJazz]

How will you be getting the internet? Digital subscriber lines (like ADSl) need copper land line.

Not really but sorry I wasn't clear enough I was talking about the use of telephone. Nowadays most people use mobile phone but someone pointed out that some companies still require documents sent by fax but so far I always managed to have them accept a scan sent by email.

So to rephrase my question, should I plan to have a telephone socket in every room as it was done before or just one in the living room will be enough ?

What the other guys are both saying is, ADSL internet requires a copper land line - whether you're going to use the land line for telephony or not - i.e. even if you don't want to use a conventional phone, you might still need a conventional phone line for your broadband internet connection.

As for how many outlets, I'd say if you have a room dedicated as an office, put one there, and then another wherever your routers/switches are. I can't see any reason why you'd have a landline handset in any other rooms these days.

I understand what the "other guys" ;-) are saying but they are wrong. We don't use the copper telephone land line for our internet connection. And it isn't Wi-Fi. Pls let me finish with my wiring diagrams and I'll come back to you on that a bit later

[bankruatsteve]

When you ask for an opinion, there is no "wrong" response. Whether you incorporate wi-fi or not will have no bearing on your ISP or method of service. We were just saying, IF you need ADSL THEN you would need copper land line.

[billphillips]

I haven't used Ethernet for around 12 years, Why would I ? WiFi is so reliable and secure these days. It's also simple to install and gives good coverage not only throughout the house but into the garden as well. It's easy for visiting friends to gain access to quickly. You can't connect smartphones and tablets to Ethernet, only old style "box" pc's I can't imagine lugging a full pc around the house with me but if I were to, I would fit a wifi card to that as well. If the house is too big you can always use an Ethernet cable to link 2 wifi routers together but better still you can install a wireless signal repeater / booster. The result would be a great and fully practical system without the clutter and hassle of wires trailing from the wall to your pc. In my opinion, Ethernet alone is not a fully practical option for the home in 2015.

Edit ....

I would go so far as to say; Ethernet has no place in a modern home. It sure doesn't in my home and I can't think why I would need it at all (Purely my humble opinion, of course).

Edited January 16, 2015 by billphillips

[JohnnyJazz]

When you ask for an opinion, there is no "wrong" response. Whether you incorporate wi-fi or not will have no bearing on your ISP or method of service. We were just saying, IF you need ADSL THEN you would need copper land line.

Sorry It was a too quick answer as I was quite busy this morning. English is not my first language and I really value the input from TV members so there was definitively no offence intended,

What I wanted to say is telephone and broadband use two different set of cable. When True installed its broadband service to my place they install a new cable on top of the one already in place for the telephone. The telephone and broadband networks are physically totally independent both inside and outside the house.

[JohnnyJazz]

I haven't used Ethernet for around 12 years, Why would I ? WiFi is so reliable and secure these days. It's also simple to install and gives good coverage not only throughout the house but into the garden as well. It's easy for visiting friends to gain access to quickly. You can't connect smartphones and tablets to Ethernet, only old style "box" pc's I can't imagine lugging a full pc around the house with me but if I were to, I would fit a wifi card to that as well. If the house is too big you can always use an Ethernet cable to link 2 wifi routers together but better still you can install a wireless signal repeater / booster. The result would be a great and fully practical system without the clutter and hassle of wires trailing from the wall to your pc. In my opinion, Ethernet alone is not a fully practical option for the home in 2015.

Edit ....

I would go so far as to say; Ethernet has no place in a modern home. It sure doesn't in my home and I can't think why I would need it at all (Purely my humble opinion, of course).

You have a valid point but there are two main reason why one may prefer a wired network over a wireless one. First a wired network is much faster, especially when many devices try to access internet simultaneously, also when you have a high volume of data transiting your network. And of course there is the security aspects.

[billphillips]

Security should not be an issue in the home with a modern secured wifi router, particularly out in the countryside.

Most wifi routers work at a max speed of 100 mbs or above. That is normally way above the isp offered speed (tot winet =7mbs, true fibre = 30mbs). The wifi router in these cases would not be the weakest or slowest part of the system.

Anyway just my opinions and hopefully thought provoking for you. Good luck with your project whatever you decide upon.

Just to let you know that in my home I have true fibre and speed test at around 45mbs. We use 2 Apple smartphones, 2 Apple iPads, I Toshiba notebook PC and 2 Android iptv boxes. In addition we have occasional multiple visitors, being local people, of course the smartphones and pads are out in abundance. Iv never encountered a problem where the video stream buffers or freezes. I also keep the network user password to myself, I have my own passwords in the router as well.

[IMHO]

Security should not be an issue in the home with a modern secured wifi router, particularly out in the countryside.

Most wifi routers work at a max speed of 100 mbs or above. That is normally way above the isp offered speed (tot winet =7mbs, true fibre = 30mbs). The wifi router in these cases would not be the weakest or slowest part of the system.

Anyway just my opinions and hopefully thought provoking for you. Good luck with your project whatever you decide upon.

Just to let you know that in my home I have true fibre and speed test at around 45mbs. We use 2 Apple smartphones, 2 Apple iPads, I Toshiba notebook PC and 2 Android iptv boxes. In addition we have occasional multiple visitors, being local people, of course the smartphones and pads are out in abundance. Iv never encountered a problem where the video stream buffers or freezes. I also keep the network user password to myself, I have my own passwords in the router as well.

Add a couple of NAS boxes, 20 or so IP cameras, and a few NVR's to your system, and WiFi quickly only makes sense for mobile devices though

There's a substantial difference between running a couple of 720P IPTV streams, and 20x 1080P streams, plus a couple of 720P IPTV streams

Edited January 16, 2015 by IMHO

[thaimite]

It would be unwise to use wi-fi for streaming security video as it can be easily blocked or interfered with.

In addition if you intend to store and stream movies (especially Blu-Ray or HD quality) then again current Wi-Fi technology is not up to the job.

If you want security and future proofing for additional services that may come along in the future, then use good quality CAT6 cabling.

By the way as far as internal telephone connections go, there is no reason why you could not re-patch a network cable to be used for a POTS (Plain old Telephone System,) if required This is the usual practice on industrial scale projects. Nor,ma telephone vanbles are CAT 3 and apart from the expense there is no reaon for not using a CAT 5 or CAT 6 cable in these circumstances

This would also mean you are covered in the future event of wanting to upgrade to future VoIP system such as an Intercom with video between rooms

One other question I saw mentioned earlier was the use of VLANS instead of separate network connections. This is again a good idea allowing more flexibility should outlets need to be re purposed, My only concern in this case would be the support for VLANS in general home networking routers and some care would be required to ensure your routers do provide such a feature. Again in my experience (Airport networks) this is common practice and nobody would now consider separate network cabling for different systems exce[t ion very special circumstances.

[JohnnyJazz]

This would also mean you are covered in the future event of wanting to upgrade to future VoIP system such as an Intercom with video between rooms

That's something I'm very much interested in. I'm usually in my workshop in the ground floor or in my office in the top floor while my wife occupies the middle floor. It would be wonderful to have an intercom instead of shouting at each other through the staircase.

[bankruatsteve]

Just to say, I'm impressed by the technical discussions for networking - but you're talking about a home and not an enterprise. (?) Sounds like you have a determined plan, but for most, I would think a wi-fi arrangement would work just as well, with equal security, far less cost, and more adaptable to future technology. And remember, internet speed has little to do with your intranet connections - it's the ISP service that will gate.

As for video/security, wi-fi is also the best option and can be very secured and no issues with speed.

Edited January 16, 2015 by bankruatsteve

[billphillips]

Hmmm.!!! I thought that we were discussing a home system here. Now the talk is going to 20 hd cameras and airports. <deleted>?

This is a good site for reasonable and relevant discussions but spoilt by the few dickheads that repeatedly post crap and abuse. Not surprisingly it's the same select few that comment with irrelevant, useless and non-constructive comments that spoil it for the many on numerous occasions.

ADMIN ..... Why do you continue to tolerate these people. Are you not able to protect this site with pro-active action?

[billphillips]

This poster has asked for advice. Iv given my advice in good faith and I sincerely hope that it's of some value to him, even if it's not used.

Can everyone here say the same?

Some very frustrated people here.

Goodnight.

[IMHO]

Hmmm.!!! I thought that we were discussing a home system here. Now the talk is going to 20 hd cameras and airports. <deleted>?

Perhaps you haven't been following the whole thread, or the other posts by the OP, but this is all happening in his 3-storey house (not a 3 bed bungalow). Relevant info has been spread over several threads though, and if you haven't been following them all, I can understand why it's hard to piece together a full picture.

[JohnnyJazz]

I like to compare the current house evolution to the evolution of the car. In the "old time" you used a handle to open your window. Now from the driver seat you can can open all windows with a push on a button. When I was a kid I used to use cigarette paper to ajust the rocker arms. Nowadays when you go to a maintenance centre the first thing the mechanic does is plug a computer to know your car full history since your last visit. On your dashboard you have information and warnings about every part of your car. It is possible because your car is totally wired with sensors in every critical part. We are doing the same with the modern house. That's why we need so many cables.

Now a last question. Is it really necessary ? Not really. But would you buy a car without electric windows ?

Edited January 16, 2015 by JohnnyJazz