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Citroen 2 CV spotters required

scooterandjobe

By scooterandjobe
in Thailand Motor Discussion

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scooterandjobe Rookie Member

scooterandjobe

Posted
Posted

Hi,

While traveling around the country or strolling around your neighbourhoods as anyone spotted a Citroen 2 CV?

Any age, any condition, preferably with a Thai number and hopefully a traceable owner and green book.

I'm preparing a project for my retirement and a Citroen 2 CV is an integral part of the project.

Cheers, Scooter

I always wanted to fly but I am scared of height. So, I did the next best thing and decided to build a Pembleton Grasshopper Super Sport!

ignis Ruby Member

ignis

Posted
Posted (edited)

As the OP is looking for a project, guess looking for something like this ?

post-42643-0-49715100-1421185588_thumb.j

Maybe go to a Rally ? Posted by 'The Nation'

post-42643-0-92679400-1421186445_thumb.j

Edited by ignis
Topcroc Explorer Member

Topcroc

Posted
Posted

There is one for sale on Phuket Classic Cars website, I would think it is the same one Ignis is refering to.

On the same site there is a Sumbeam Alpine for sale, in the background you can see the roof ov a 2 CV, it could be the same car before resto. I asked pricing and it was stupid.

Sviss Geez Gold Member

Sviss Geez

Posted
Posted

Scooter. Have you enquired about the legality of building a kit car. I'm not sure but I think you have to get it signed off by a Thai engineer. So maybe find one first, so you know how much is involved.

PS : you could try asking at Jesada car museum. The owner has loads of cars and connections.

http://www.jesadatechnikmuseum.com/index.php

2CVs aren't kit cars.

casualbiker Platinum Member

casualbiker

Posted
Posted (edited)

Scooter. Have you enquired about the legality of building a kit car. I'm not sure but I think you have to get it signed off by a Thai engineer. So maybe find one first, so you know how much is involved.

PS : you could try asking at Jesada car museum. The owner has loads of cars and connections.

http://www.jesadatechnikmuseum.com/index.php

2CVs aren't kit cars.

True. But a Pembleton Grasshopper Super Sport is : http://www.pembleton.co.uk

And it uses a space frame chassis hence my remarks about an engineer .. I may actually be off the mark as to WHY the OP wants a 2CV but it seems that this is his project.

Op the Lomax may work better for Thailand as it uses the original chassis (but is not so refined) : http://www.sportsandleisurecars.co.uk/index_006.htm

Edited by casualbiker
scooterandjobe Rookie Member

scooterandjobe

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

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Scooter. Have you enquired about the legality of building a kit car. I'm not sure but I think you have to get it signed off by a Thai engineer. So maybe find one first, so you know how much is involved.


PS : you could try asking at Jesada car museum. The owner has loads of cars and connections.

http://www.jesadatechnikmuseum.com/index.php


2CVs aren't kit cars.
True. But a Pembleton Grasshopper Super Sport is : http://www.pembleton.co.uk

And it uses a space frame chassis hence my remarks about an engineer .. I may actually be off the mark as to WHY the OP wants a 2CV but it seems that this is his project.


Op the Lomax may work better for Thailand as it uses the original chassis (but is not so refined) : http://www.sportsandleisurecars.co.uk/index_006.htm

The Lomax would be a compromise, it's a true vintage (1930's) look I'm striving for.

I can see the connection (2 CV/Pembleton) . I want a 2 CV for my wife. I am also building a Pembleton-type car, using some of the ideas (but not the space frame chassis or rear suspension) but within the rules and regulations that will allow it to be used here. And it is mostly for club events, not daily use.

I've found the government departments quite helpful when they are presented with the details of an idea...it's kind of like 'planning permission' in the UK...if you build without the planning permission, the authorities tend to get a bit tetchy, and usually make you undo all the work.

Although full blown kit cars are not readily tolerated here, I'm sure it would not be impossible to get one approved/registered, but it may take the edge off the process - the building is the real passion. There would be certain tests/inspections that would be difficult to pass. Ironically, emissions being one of the biggest stumbling blocks.

It seems there were quite a number of 2 CV's here many years ago, used by an NGO as transport. I hope to find one or two in need of restoration.

I've always tinkered with objects with wheels and engines; it use to be motorcycles, but I'm bored with those now. I still ride my stock bikes: Road Star Warrior and Road Star Raider, but less and less these days.

Cheers, Scooter

Edited by scooterandjobe
mike324 Silver Member

mike324

Posted
Posted

Scooter. Have you enquired about the legality of building a kit car. I'm not sure but I think you have to get it signed off by a Thai engineer. So maybe find one first, so you know how much is involved.

PS : you could try asking at Jesada car museum. The owner has loads of cars and connections.

http://www.jesadatechnikmuseum.com/index.php

2CVs aren't kit cars.

True. But a Pembleton Grasshopper Super Sport is : http://www.pembleton.co.uk

And it uses a space frame chassis hence my remarks about an engineer .. I may actually be off the mark as to WHY the OP wants a 2CV but it seems that this is his project.

Op the Lomax may work better for Thailand as it uses the original chassis (but is not so refined) : http://www.sportsandleisurecars.co.uk/index_006.htm

you can't register a kit car, many of the ones you see for sale do not have proper registration, its just an old car registration and license slap on a kit car, so it depends on your luck if you are stop, if you are driving a kit car they will very likely check your registration as they know its most likely not legal, couple hundred they may let you go worse case say bye bye to your car.

Jessada owner does not sale cars to the public unless you are friends, he deals mostly with the thai military and assembles hummers and jeeps for them. Don't waste your time trying.

Your best bet is trolling the forum thaiscooter.com, have a thai person post a "wanted" ad. You can also try searching "ขาย Citroen 2CV" on google.

thaisecondhand.com also has one or two old listings for 2CV

scooterandjobe Rookie Member

scooterandjobe

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Scooter. Have you enquired about the legality of building a kit car. I'm not sure but I think you have to get it signed off by a Thai engineer. So maybe find one first, so you know how much is involved.

PS : you could try asking at Jesada car museum. The owner has loads of cars and connections.

http://www.jesadatechnikmuseum.com/index.php

2CVs aren't kit cars.

True. But a Pembleton Grasshopper Super Sport is : http://www.pembleton.co.uk

And it uses a space frame chassis hence my remarks about an engineer .. I may actually be off the mark as to WHY the OP wants a 2CV but it seems that this is his project.

Op the Lomax may work better for Thailand as it uses the original chassis (but is not so refined) : http://www.sportsandleisurecars.co.uk/index_006.htm

you can't register a kit car, many of the ones you see for sale do not have proper registration, its just an old car registration and license slap on a kit car, so it depends on your luck if you are stop, if you are driving a kit car they will very likely check your registration as they know its most likely not legal, couple hundred they may let you go worse case say bye bye to your car.

Jessada owner does not sale cars to the public unless you are friends, he deals mostly with the thai military and assembles hummers and jeeps for them. Don't waste your time trying.

Your best bet is trolling the forum thaiscooter.com, have a thai person post a "wanted" ad. You can also try searching "ขาย Citroen 2CV" on google.

thaisecondhand.com also has one or two old listings for 2CV

"...you can't register a kit car...'. That's not a true statement.

Yes, you must pass a very rigorous set of tests/inspections. Which would take a long time, a lot of effort and cost a considerable of money. It all makes the success of the process improbable/unlikely, but not impossible.

But it is good to hear many people's experiences/views/opinions when undertaking an unusual project.

BTW, the two forums you recommended do have some 2 CV ads...I'll need to get my wife to translate for me.

Cheers, Scooter.

Edited by scooterandjobe
casualbiker Platinum Member

casualbiker

Posted
Posted (edited)

The reason I mentioned Jesada is that he is well into Citroen and probably has many connections and how do you become friends with someone if you don't contact them, but ok.

As for the Pemberton I liked the 4 wheel one with BMW engine ..that would be cool up around Chiang Mai or Petchabun

Edited by casualbiker
scooterandjobe Rookie Member

scooterandjobe

Posted
  • Author
Posted

The reason I mentioned Jesada is that he is well into Citroen and probably has many connections and how do you become friends with someone if you don't contact them, but ok.

As for the Pemberton I liked the 4 wheel one with BMW engine ..that would be cool up around Chiang Mai or Petchabun

Hi 'casualbiker',

I did try to visit the link, but got a 'Forbidden' message.

Cheers, Scooter.

arthurwait Platinum Member

arthurwait

Posted
Posted (edited)

You need and existing chassis/chassis number here for car conversions. No new chassis/number unless you are a high investing company. It's numerous 100 million baht investment in the country, can't remember the exact number.

If you know a way around this I'd love to know. Don't take a local officials word for it. One thing you need to understand if you are new here is most Thais can not say 'I don't know' and will make up a story instead so not to lose face.

Edited by arthurwait
mike324 Silver Member

mike324

Posted
Posted (edited)
True. But a Pembleton Grasshopper Super Sport is : http://www.pembleton.co.uk

And it uses a space frame chassis hence my remarks about an engineer .. I may actually be off the mark as to WHY the OP wants a 2CV but it seems that this is his project.

Op the Lomax may work better for Thailand as it uses the original chassis (but is not so refined) : http://www.sportsandleisurecars.co.uk/index_006.htm

"...you can't register a kit car...'. That's not a true statement.

Yes, you must pass a very rigorous set of tests/inspections. Which would take a long time, a lot of effort and cost a considerable of money. It all makes the success of the process improbable/unlikely, but not impossible.

But it is good to hear many people's experiences/views/opinions when undertaking an unusual project.

BTW, the two forums you recommended do have some 2 CV ads...I'll need to get my wife to translate for me.

Cheers, Scooter.

Hi scooter, if you have any info regarding to registering a kit car or using an existing chassis and different body please let me know, I am interested in building up a car in the future as well, the the laws are unclear and the bureaucracy is full of road blocks hence I haven't pursue it yet. I guess that is the reason why most Thais just slap on a registration from another car or similar make. I've seen some pictures of Thais grafting the serial from the same make onto another car as well, mostly old toyotas and vw that are the same model.

Keep us updated on your projects!

Edited by mike324
scooterandjobe Rookie Member

scooterandjobe

Posted
  • Author
Posted

"...Hi scooter, if you have any info regarding to registering a kit car or using an existing chassis and different body please let me know, I am interested in building up a car in the future as well, the the laws are unclear and the bureaucracy is full of road blocks hence I haven't pursue it yet. I guess that is the reason why most Thais just slap on a registration from another car or similar make. I've seen some pictures of Thais grafting the serial from the same make onto another car as well, mostly old toyotas and vw that are the same model.

Keep us updated on your projects! ..."

Hi Mike,

I hope to build one modified vehicle (using the donor vehicles blue book) and one kit vehicle which will require a full Engineer's inspection before registration- see below. Both vehicles will be classic car-replicas. The kit vehicle will be a special-use only: shows, promotion and track, so registration is not essential. I'm basically selling my two motorcycles and using the money for two different toys.

And, yes, I'll share any data/information I have.

For my projects there are two main areas I am now researching:

Custom Tariffs and Permits for imported goods

I'm currently having some very constructive email conversations with Thai customs relating to the importation of motor car/motor cycle spare parts (not all parts I require can be sourced in Thailand), and they have been very helpful. Use their 1164 helpline (email & telephone). Present very specific queries and they will get back to you very quickly with answers. I normally get a response within 24 hours.

They have a tariff listing here (http://igtf.customs.go.th/igtf/en/main_frame.jsp).

1.Please type your hs code '' Tariff Code 2,4,6,7,8 digit ['8' for vehicle-related tariffs] '' then press ‘’ search ‘’

2.Click at heading in column no.1 again , it will display many sub headings. - it's easier to do the initial navigation by copying the table into a MS Excel spreadsheet as text and then go back to the web page when you have found the relevant tariff reference.
3.Choose the condition in the list box (Duty Reduction Column ) , the conditions will be display.
- To see the general rate ,please click '' General Rate (section 12) '' and click show, the import rate will display.
What I have gleaned from the conversations is that if buying outside of Thailand (in some cases it's cheaper to buy from outside Thailand even if a part is available here as the mark-ups here can be huge - specialist engines being one example) it is beneficial to get as many parts from ASEAN countries and ASEAN-partner countries [ASEAN Trade in Goods Agreement (ATIGA)]to avoid paying huge (30%-100%) duty as opposed to 3% under ATIGA. You will need to obtain the Certificate of Origin (Form-D) from suppliers to prove the goods were manufactured and assembled in ASEAN countries or ASEAN-partner countries.
Fortunately, a lot of custom car and custom motorcycle parts are manufactured in ASEAN countries and ASEAN-partner countries:

Thai Customs advised me to contact the Thai Industrial Standards Institute and The Ministry of Commerce, as they need to provide documentation/permits for some imported goods relating to motor vehicles. I'll keep you informed on the outcome.

NOTE: I've seen some comments on TV and other forums where vehicles are confiscated or 'rotting in police station car parks'. This is a consequence of tax avoidance, or inadequate/non-existent Thai Industrial Standards Institute and/or Ministry of Commerce documentation/permits, NOT driving an unregistered vehicle - unless you cause an accident/fatality.

Driving an unregistered will incur fines*** and an order not to drive on the roads with the possibility of facing higher penalties if you do, but there are no grounds for vehicle confiscation if the import laws and duty/excise payments are in order - again, unless you cause an accident/fatality.

***If you've been in Thailand a while, you'll be familiar with the 'fine expiration period', where once a traffic offence has been committed you can use the fine receipt to avoid another fine for a short grace period, same day usually. But I doubt you would get away with that too many times!

Definitions of car modifications as opposed to a kit car

The first vehicle I plan on building will use the main structural (the donor has a separate chassis), mechanical and electrical components/basic layout and configuration e.g. lights etc. from/as the donor vehicle. The intention being not to compromise the structural integrity or the level of safety of the original vehicle as defined during homologation/type approval. Basically they will look different but essentially they will still have all(or most) of the features of the original vehicle. Then, hopefully, I can then use the original registration and take the vehicle to the Department of Land Transport Office (DLT) for inspection every year as normal.

What I'm having difficulty in establishing is how far I am allowed to go before the vehicle needs a full Engineers report rather than just a DLT inspection. I'm trying to clarify this at the moment with the DLT.

The second vehicle will require a full engineers report (which a ground-up kit car with a new chassis would)before registration.

Is registration a realistic expectation or even a requirement? It depends on the intended use of the vehicle. For me, it's a 'nice to have'.

Not to say it won't pass, if the vehicle has been constructed to a high standard and with a reasonable approach and some patience it just might, just the time, effort and cost would make it a long and expensive project.

And, as I mentioned in an earlier post some tests would be very difficult to pass:

Emissions - Euro 4/5 is a tough standard to meet, especially with an older engine with a carburettor and no electronic engine management.

Crash/Impact testing may be required. which again means additional expense, as I doubt that would be NDT!

But, there is the added bonus if it does pass, any vehicle built to exactly the same standard would, in theory, pass too - kerching (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kerching)!

Cheers, Scooter

scooterandjobe Rookie Member

scooterandjobe

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Its not bad condition but its what's available now.

£16,000 w00t.gifw00t.gifblink.pngfacepalm.gifw00t.gif

Hi 'hansgruber' & 'arthurwait',

Yes 800,000 Baht (16,000 GBP) is extreme. And, I'm looking for something that needs work, two actually to make one good one.

There is a 1966 model for sale here in Singapore. It really needs some attention. They are asking 20,000 GBP. To add insult to injury, it's on a classic plate, so can only be used 45 days a year:

http://www.lta.gov.sg/content/ltaweb/en/roads-and-motoring/owning-a-vehicle/registering-your-vehicle/registration-of-classic-vehicles.html

'arthurwait',

Your point about the investment required to obtain chassis numbers, where did you get that information from? I'd be interested in looking into that.

"...Don't take a local officials word for it...". They're not all bad, but communicating with the Bangkok offices when researching the possibilities is essential too.

I've had a home here since '97, so I've had some contact and misunderstandings with officials. What I find is the questions asked must be specific and very clear. If there is ambiguity in the question, then the answer may not be accurate or useful. And, I have a relatively well educated Thai wife, so any language issues are covered.

Thai customs have been very helpful. Hopefully, other departments will be just as helpful. Still a long way off and being realistic about the success of the process. And as is always sensible a contingency is being looked at.

Cheers, Scooter.

Edited by scooterandjobe
scooterandjobe Rookie Member

scooterandjobe

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Good info Scooter. Thanks.

I want another Hot Rod !

You're welcome. I hope I can keep supplying positive news and useful tips.

Cheers, Scooter

Edited by scooterandjobe
scooterandjobe Rookie Member

scooterandjobe

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

seen a couple driving about, there is/was one at the Citroen Club For Sale but 800,000 baht !!

Consider this based on UK price of 3600 GBP for a 2 CV: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1985-CITROEN-2CV6-GREY-fully-restored-service-history-/251786464170?clk_rvr_id=764458739435&rmvSB=true

And, Thai Customs calculation of duty and taxes; http://www.customs.go.th/wps/wcm/connect/custen/individuals/importing+personal+vehicle/importingpersonalvehicle+

It's actually cheaper to bring one from the UK and register it (snapshot from spread sheet) :

TAX.png

Cheers, Scooter

Edited by scooterandjobe

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