Passport Checks At Heathrow

[durhamboy]

My wife and I flew out of Terminal 2 to Thailand recently.

There are no outward passport checks there anymore. My wife has 2 Thai passports - one in her maiden name with her settlement visa and the other in her married name.

As I booked the ticket in her married name she just showed that one at check-in. That one is completely blank of any immigration stamps, visas etc.

So my query is how does the UKBA maintain border checks? My wife flew out on a blank passport with no record of her ever entering the UK.

[theoldgit]

There haven't been embarkation checks at Heathrow for years, they were done away in 1994 as part of a cost cutting exercise, though occasionally the Border Force staff do use the desks on entry to the departure lounges and randomly check passports.

The point you make about how does the UKBA know who has left the country has been made by politicians, security officials and the Home Office over the years, though in theory the airlines should have this information but I suspect their systems and that of the UK Border Force aren't compatible.

There was a commitment to reintroduce embarkation controls by the end of the current parliament as part of the e-borders programme, this was part of the Coalition agreement, I suspect it's not going to happen especially as the contract for the computer system to run the system was cancelled last year incurring penalties in the region of £223m.

[Richard W]

The point you make about how does the UKBA know who has left the country has been made by politicians, security officials and the Home Office over the years, though in theory the airlines should have this information but I suspect their systems and that of the UK Border Force aren't compatible.

People who fly in and out on scheduled flights are the ones that the system currently does track. As to how the system could match the arrival and departure of the OP's wife, date and place of birth will help even if they don't automatically connect the two through her visa.

[durhamboy]

So, in short, there are no checks anymore. So if my wife had a visitor visa in her maiden name passport instead of a settlement visa she could have overstayed without it being picked up.

[7by7]

Basically; yes!

Though, of course, she would have been unable, legally, to work, access the NHS etc. and attempting to do so could have brought her to the attention of the relevant authorities.

I must admit to being in two minds over exit checks.

Although they would catch overstayers when leaving the UK, I feel it is not them who are the major problem; it's the people who don't leave at all.

For them, at best, having exit checks will only tell the Home office that someone has not left the UK when they should have done; it wont tell them where they are.

[Jay Sata]

So, in short, there are no checks anymore. So if my wife had a visitor visa in her maiden name passport instead of a settlement visa she could have overstayed without it being picked up.

Although there are no checks passport information is collected by the airline as part of the ticket booking system and I believe agencies such as GCHQ use this to track suspects.

It puzzles me that a country such as Thailand with a similar population to,the UK can log passports but the UK cannot.

I guess you enjoyed the terminal 2 experience.

I was through there last week and enjoyed a smooth transit with little or no fuss.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Jay Sata

[durhamboy]

Yes Jay the Terminal 2 experience was good except for one thing.

We carried quite a lot of cash for our Thai holiday - basically costs of using UK cards in Thailand is now quite high when you add up UK and Thai charges so I felt it was worth the risk. I put the cash in our hand luggage. All went very smoothly until we were on the airbridge to the aircraft. A lady from UKBA introduced herself to my wife. I thought that this was going to be about her passport as per the OP. No, she asked my wife if she was carrying a large amount of cash. I said yes but as it was less than the 10,000 euros equivalent then we didn't need to declare it (or 20k limit as there were 2 of us I suppose). The lady asked me a couple of questions like my employment status etc. She was quite pleasant and concluded that UKBA can confiscate any amount over 1,000 pounds if they suspect the money was obtained illegally and the passenger cannot prove how they got the money.

Anyway it may have all been a coincidence but I'm a bit cynical about that. I think what happened is this, The security systems at Terminal 2 are state of the art. I,m sure that applies to the machine that scanned our hand luggage. Because I was delayed for extra frisking (I always seem to set the bells ringing) my wife got through first and she collected the bag. I think the scanning process picked up the wedge of cash and alerted UKBA who then approached my wife as we were boarding. Any thoughts anyone?

[durhamboy]

Basically; yes!

Though, of course, she would have been unable, legally, to work, access the NHS etc. and attempting to do so could have brought her to the attention of the relevant authorities.

I must admit to being in two minds over exit checks.

Although they would catch overstayers when leaving the UK, I feel it is not them who are the major problem; it's the people who don't leave at all.

For them, at best, having exit checks will only tell the Home office that someone has not left the UK when they should have done; it wont tell them where they are.

I take your points about not being able to work legally etc.

However surely in the immigration process there must also be deterents. More people will be tempted to come and overstay if they know there are no passport checks on leaving. I don't think the cursory check at check-in is anywhere near good enough. The lady who checked us in hardly looked at my wife's Thai passport - all she was concerned with was her (and my) right to enter Thailand so a vallid Thai passport was fine for the airline. In fact she delayed us a bit by running a check on my credit card to make sure it was the one I used for the booking.

Surely with all the problems some people are getting with satisfying the rules for settlement visas then it must be tempting to just a visit visa and overstay?

.

[wooloomooloo]

Any thoughts anyone?

I carry cash to LOS from LHR every visit for the same reasons, durhamboy. I'm none too concerned with being pulled as I only carry about £3 to 4k and have quick access to my online banking if push comes to shove.

We were stopped a few years ago at LHR when the sniffer dog got excited and it was down to the cash. Showed the policeman the money and he let us on our way and didn't bat an eyelid.

They're extremely reasonable if you're above board.

[dbrenn]

It's the same in the US, or was when I departed around 9 years ago. My passport wasn't checked on the way out.

Surely, though, immigration would be able to get proof from the airline that you'd left. When they scan your boarding pass at the gate as you board the plane, checking your ID at the same time -- wouldn't that be proof that you'd really left and not turned back somewhere?

My assumption was that the airlines have to give the passenger manifest to immigration, who tick people off as really having departed.

Edited January 18, 2015 by dbrenn

[bobrussell]

Did you notice a well behaved dog sitting patiently beside your luggage? There are trained dogs that can sniff out cash! They tend to be rotated from place to place.

There are good reasons for the questions. Money laundering and transferring cash abroad to help fund terrorism are the main ones but also to ensure that tax is likely to have been paid on the money!

Quite a sensitive issue at the moment!

[Trevor1809]

There was case a few years back, cant remember if it was Gatwick or Heathrow, of of of the fake police, PCS or something, who took it upon herself to confiscate large quanties of cash from vulnerable foriegn travellers on the pretext of being illegal to export cash. In frar of not getting on their flight the people handed over the cash.

I will try and dig out a link

I wasn't best pleased with T2 arrivals. One hour for the bags to arrive on top of a 45 minute late arrival. I was on the verge of leaving and coming back the next day to get the bags.

[Trevor1809]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711033/Gatwick-PCSO-guilty-stealing-10-000-passengers-board-planes-threatening-missing-flights-didn-t-hand-cash.html

Gatwick and she stole £10000.

[Trevor1809]

With 72.3 million arriving and departing passengers a year at Heathrow alone I wish Immigration luck in trying to track one departure. About 50% of those are departures. Now if they where looking for a terrorist it might be worth their while matching all those departures. I hope that they wont waste taxpayers money trying to prove whether one particular Thai wife had left the UK or not.

[Waterloo]

As Bob say's see the link below, I seem to remember reading a few weeks ago the Lady in question missed a recent flight when she was detained by the police for questioning.

Once you are on the radar for the wrong reasons things can get awkward.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/student-accused-of-smuggling-cash-in-knickers-to-fund-jihadists-hid-it-in-condom-9640318.html

[Trevor1809]

Yes Jay the Terminal 2 experience was good except for one thing.

We carried quite a lot of cash for our Thai holiday - basically costs of using UK cards in Thailand is now quite high when you add up UK and Thai charges so I felt it was worth the risk. I put the cash in our hand luggage. All went very smoothly until we were on the airbridge to the aircraft. A lady from UKBA introduced herself to my wife. I thought that this was going to be about her passport as per the OP. No, she asked my wife if she was carrying a large amount of cash. I said yes but as it was less than the 10,000 euros equivalent then we didn't need to declare it (or 20k limit as there were 2 of us I suppose). The lady asked me a couple of questions like my employment status etc. She was quite pleasant and concluded that UKBA can confiscate any amount over 1,000 pounds if they suspect the money was obtained illegally and the passenger cannot prove how they got the money.

Anyway it may have all been a coincidence but I'm a bit cynical about that. I think what happened is this, The security systems at Terminal 2 are state of the art. I,m sure that applies to the machine that scanned our hand luggage. Because I was delayed for extra frisking (I always seem to set the bells ringing) my wife got through first and she collected the bag. I think the scanning process picked up the wedge of cash and alerted UKBA who then approached my wife as we were boarding. Any thoughts anyone?

Given what I already posted this looks more like a scam to me. What right do UKBA have to confiscate cash even as little as £1000. I wonder if the fact that you were with your wife and would have kicked up a stink than she backed off.

I would have been asking to see their id so that I could have reported them.

[Jay Sata]

A lot of body language profiling goes on with the camera operators behind the scenes.

On top of this there are cameras trained on everyone and it is possible you got the wad of cash out to check it.

HM Customs have substantial powers to seize any cash or funds they may suspect to be illegal or part of a tax scam.

This includes stoping and seizing cash from you in the street.

Most people can account for the money they have on them but there are sections of the community that milk cash for the likes of corner shop operations then take it to places like India or Pakistan.

Money laundering and tax evasion are a serious offences.

It is extremely difficult these days to accumulate large sums of used notes. If you are carrying several thousand in 500 Euro notes you will have a lot of explaining to do.

[Trevor1809]

It is extremely difficult these days to accumulate large sums of used notes. If you are carrying several thousand in 500 Euro notes you will have a lot of explaining to do.

Well I hope that they devote as much effort into tracking drug smugglers and suspected terrorists as they spend on tourists with a few thousand pounds wanting to avoid sky high bank charges.

[bobrussell]

There is no problem taking large quantities of cash out of the country. What you have to be able to do is account for where it came from and why you are carrying it.

If you are carrying £10 000 for example it should be declared. If it was taken out from a bank and you can show the transaction then it is likely to be above board and you catch the flight. If it is unaccounted for then it is likely to be confiscated and held for 48 hours. After that it requires a court order to hold the money. The 'owner' gets it back when its origins can be shown. Generally money going through bank accounts is traceable and likely to be considered legitimate.

Why should cash in hand be allowed out of the country without tax being paid on it?

If in doubt complete a form C9011 and carry evidence (eg bank statement) of where it came from.

[7by7]

It is extremely difficult these days to accumulate large sums of used notes. If you are carrying several thousand in 500 Euro notes you will have a lot of explaining to do.

Well I hope that they devote as much effort into tracking drug smugglers and suspected terrorists as they spend on tourists with a few thousand pounds wanting to avoid sky high bank charges.

It is not tourists trying to avoid sky high bank charges they are after; it's criminals who are laundering their ill gotten gains and people evading paying tax on the money they want to catch.

As Bob says above; if you are legitimate then once you have shown that you are you'll be sent on your way with your cash.

Take cash in and out of the UK

If one has gone to the trouble of obtaining the cash in the first place then filling in a simple form and providing bank statements to show the money is legit should be no problem.

[Jay Sata]

To be honest I can never quite understand why anyone wants to carry cash sums abroad.

I prefer to move money electronicly.

I can get a better rate moving a several thousand sterling via my account in Guernsey via Bangkok Bank in St Mary Axe London than messing with cash.

As for money laundering.

The small amateurs try to smuggle it and get caught.

The simple way is buy a boat or a light aircraft. Buy it in one part of the world and sell it elsewhere.

[durhamboy]

To be honest I can never quite understand why anyone wants to carry cash sums abroad.

I prefer to move money electronicly.

I can get a better rate moving a several thousand sterling via my account in Guernsey via Bangkok Bank in St Mary Axe London than messing with cash.

As for money laundering.

The small amateurs try to smuggle it and get caught.

The simple way is buy a boat or a light aircraft. Buy it in one part of the world and sell it elsewhere.

Yes Jay maybe you have got access to a multitude of bank a/cs to shift money. Most of us haven't. I reckon by taking cash I will save 200 to 300 quid when you add up the Thai charges (B150 for card withdrawals) and UK charges and the worse exchange rate most banks use when converting to sterling in your bank a/c.

The exchange rate that (legit) money changers offer here in Thailand is extremely good. Look at the margin between their buy and sell rates and you see they are are operating on very low margins. Compare that to the ludicrous margins Amex and Travelex offer at Heathrow - quite scandalous really.

[Jay Sata]

I agree with you regarding charges from ATM machines etc.

However you can transfer from any UK account via the Bangkok Bank in London to a personal Bangkok Bank account in Thailand. In most cases the transfer takes no more than 24 hours and the rate is pretty good compared to changing cash in Thailand.

I will be surprised if you can better their rates of exchange.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUK/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUK.aspx

I find the rate is better in moving sterling to Thailand than opting for baht.

Daily rates are here; http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PERSONALBANKING/SPECIALSERVICES/FOREIGNCUSTOMERS/Pages/FXRates.aspx

Cost is £15.00 and there is no charge to withdraw.

Personally I do not like carrying cash in any sort of substantial amount.

In the UK I use debit cards for everything.

I agree regarding the sharks at airport money changers.

Duty free shops are another rip off.

I hope you are enjoying the warm weather compared to back in the UK.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Jay Sata

[OJAS]

I agree with you regarding charges from ATM machines etc.

However you can transfer from any UK account via the Bangkok Bank in London to a personal Bangkok Bank account in Thailand. In most cases the transfer takes no more than 24 hours and the rate is pretty good compared to changing cash in Thailand.

I will be surprised if you can better their rates of exchange.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUK/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUK.aspx

I find the rate is better in moving sterling to Thailand than opting for baht.

Daily rates are here; http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PERSONALBANKING/SPECIALSERVICES/FOREIGNCUSTOMERS/Pages/FXRates.aspx

Cost is £15.00 and there is no charge to withdraw.

Personally I do not like carrying cash in any sort of substantial amount.

In the UK I use debit cards for everything.

I agree regarding the sharks at airport money changers.

Duty free shops are another rip off.

I hope you are enjoying the warm weather compared to back in the UK.

Definitely agree with you about the Bangkok Bank facility which I also use.

As regards carrying cash, I think that it is prudent to have at least the equivalent of 20,000 THB in cash on you whenever you fly to Thailand since this is the minimum amount each passenger should have according to Thai law. That said, whether 20,000 THB could be regarded as a substantial amount is, of course, another matter entirely!

[Jay Sata]

I agree re a sum such as 20-30'000 although that will not last long on holiday in some of the hotels and resorts.

I was thinking along the lines of some who feels it is safe to have several thousand pounds on their person.

[theoldgit]

Can I respectfully remind members that this thread is about passport checks when leaving LHR, not how much money we feel we need when visiting Thailand.

Could I ask that we remain, at least, slightly on topic.

[theoldgit]

Off topic, inaccurate and racist comments removed.

As one member rightly said "I don't think the colour of the Border Force Officer has any bearing on the matter".

[phrodan]

I don't know why the OP complained about being questioned about the money, does he have a halo over his head that excuses him from UK law?

[Jay Sata]

Big brother knows a lot about you before arriving at the departure airport and various agencies can use this information.

The House of Lords has said the 42 pieces of passenger data that airlines need to hand over to the police and security services enable aspects of a passengers history, conduct and behaviour to be deduced

The 42 categories are:

passport number

country which issued passport

passport expiry date

given names

last name

gender

date of birth

nationality

passenger name record locator code

address

all forms of payment information

billing address

contact telephone numbers

all travel itinerary for specific PNR

frequent flyer information

travel agency

travel agent

code share PNR information

travel status of passenger

split/divided PNR information

email address

ticketing field information

general remarks

ticket number

seat number

date of ticket issued

no-show history

bag tag history

go-show information

other service-related information

special service requests, such as meal preferences

received from information

all historical changes to PNR

number of travellers on PNR

seat information

one-way tickets

any collected advanced passenger information system information

automatic ticketing fare quote

UK arrivals are also checked.

According to the Home Office

All passengers are checked against police, security and immigration watchlists on arrival. Where we believe someone poses a risk, Border Force officers can and do refuse them entry.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Jay Sata

[durhamboy]

I don't know why the OP complained about being questioned about the money, does he have a halo over his head that excuses him from UK law?

No I don't have a halo over my head! I didn't really complain. If you look at the posts I didn't mention it until Jay Sata asked me if I enjoyed the Terminal 2 experience so I thought I'd share what happened to us, It wasn't pleasant when you are on an airbridge just about to board a long haul flight. I certainly do not think I am above the law I just wondered why (my wife) was selected and was it just a coincidence that we were carrying quite a large amount of cash?

Hopefully next time you make a post you will something to contribute to the debate.

Note : Sorry OG you are right that this is off topic but I felt the somewhat insulting nature of the post merited a response.