In remote Thai villages, legacy of China's lost army endures

[chooka]

I can see a Chinese-Thai, on that came from China and became a Thai citizen.

Vice versa for a Thai moving to China and becoming a citizen of China.

But I know many Thai people, born and raised in Thailand as were their parents and

still they refer to themselves as Chinese. Is "Chinese" a race?

The Thai that go to American and become citizens are Americans, there is I'm sure

a Thai-American community, but being an American is not a race thing.

How can someone be Thai and be Chinese?

Well, in the UK people of Pakistani origin are known as British Pakistanis. Go to an England vs Pakistan cricket test match and there will be third generation Pakistanis draped in the flag of their ancestral homeland. Other south Asians are described as British Asian. The UK media refers to all citizens as Britons although most of the true Britons, not the Anglo Saxon incomers or the Scots who arrived from Ireland, are the Welsh. So, Thai citizens of Chinese ancestry are referred to as Chinese Thai. Ethnicity and religion, two of the main causes of conflict for centuries.

My grandfather is Chinese but my parents were born in Australia and are mixed race so I guess I am Chinese Australian even tho I look European.

You would need both of your parents to be of Chinese descent for you to be described as Chinese Australian. If you also have European ancestry I think the description would be Eurasian Australian, although if I shared your heritage I'd take the liberty to describe myself as exotic . My own ancestors were Huguenots though I'll be darned if I'm going to describe myself as French

I am classed as Aboriginal as my great grandmother was koorie as is my Thai son recognised as aboriginal by law. A bit of a mongrel really with Chinese, Irish and Aboriginal blood.

[seedy]

Me - I'm African/don't know for a long time/Dutch/Irish/Scottish/English/Canadian/resident in Thailand

All this Irish/American and Chinese/American and on aon on and on is just a PITA

Hold Canadian citizenship - you're Canadian.

Other countries same same

[quidnunc]

"The Chinese are not stupid. :-)"

If they were so smart they would have a country they wanted to stay in.

So what does that say about all the expats in Thailand and elsewhere? I guess either you don't number yourself among them or you're no brighter than you say these Chinese are.

Well that is true, but I don't go around claiming people of my race are superior. Also I do my best to LEARN from other countries I go to, adapt to their (good) ways, try to bring the best of what I have, etc.

This may be irrelevant to the KMT in N Thailand but it is strange to see people talk about how brilliant the Chinese of SE Asia are when the fact remains they do not want to live in the country they came from. A bit like nationalistic Mexicans breaking the law to enter the US.

Wow. Really, the Thai-Chinese in Thailand came from China? Most Thais of Chinese extraction have been here for several generation. This is the country they grew up and mostly prospered in. Why would they want to go live in a foreign country? Believe it or not, the overwhelmingly majority of Thai Chinese speak thai like it's their native language. And that's because it is their native language. And I guess, by your lights, the fact that they have prospered proves that they are "not so smart". Somebody in this thread is proving himself to be "not so smart", but it isn't the Chinese.

[quidnunc]

I had a very interesting meeting with a son of a Kuomintang settler up by Mae Salong, taught me how to take tea the traditional Chinese way and spoke at length about the history of his Father's people coming to Thailand. One thing I felt slightly disturbing was he lamented that he was "not beautiful like his Father" because his Mother was from one of the hill tribes up there, couldn't help but wonder if this had been drilled into him by his Father or other non mixed Chinese. Most guys with any balls would staunchly defend their Mother looks whatever the reality.

If you care to notice there's something known as stormfront where farang need to be 100% yup not even 90% before they can be a part of and they need to be 100% pro faranG and anti all races even jews. Please come back again when there's a chinese equvalent of stormfront.

So, the minimum standard for calling out bigotry is one set by a few neo-nazi lunatics?

Edited January 17, 2015 by quidnunc

[seedy]

If you care to notice there's something known as stormfront where farang need to be 100% yup not even 90% before they can be a part of and they need to be 100% pro faranG

You must be a poster boy for the saying 'A little knowledge is a dangerous thing'

Farang in Thailand means foreigner - specifically from Europe or N America

Stormfront (SPIT) is a Neo Nazi white supremist website started by the KKK

Who in their right mind would want to be a part of something like this ?

[Tomtomtom69]

I can see a Chinese-Thai, on that came from China and became a Thai citizen.

Vice versa for a Thai moving to China and becoming a citizen of China.

But I know many Thai people, born and raised in Thailand as were their parents and

still they refer to themselves as Chinese. Is "Chinese" a race?

The Thai that go to American and become citizens are Americans, there is I'm sure

a Thai-American community, but being an American is not a race thing.

How can someone be Thai and be Chinese?

I have never heard of a Thai becoming a citizen of China. Chinese citizenship is extremely hard to come by and almost no one gets it. A lot of Chinese have in the past, prior to around 1949 settled in Thailand and many have eventually integrated and became thai citizens. There is almost no history in the reverse direction though.

[Tomtomtom69]

I can see a Chinese-Thai, on that came from China and became a Thai citizen.

Vice versa for a Thai moving to China and becoming a citizen of China.

But I know many Thai people, born and raised in Thailand as were their parents and

still they refer to themselves as Chinese. Is "Chinese" a race?

The Thai that go to American and become citizens are Americans, there is I'm sure

a Thai-American community, but being an American is not a race thing.

How can someone be Thai and be Chinese?

Well, in the UK people of Pakistani origin are known as British Pakistanis. Go to an England vs Pakistan cricket test match and there will be third generation Pakistanis draped in the flag of their ancestral homeland. Other south Asians are described as British Asian. The UK media refers to all citizens as Britons although most of the true Britons, not the Anglo Saxon incomers or the Scots who arrived from Ireland, are the Welsh. So, Thai citizens of Chinese ancestry are referred to as Chinese Thai. Ethnicity and religion, two of the main causes of conflict for centuries.

My grandfather is Chinese but my parents were born in Australia and are mixed race so I guess I am Chinese Australian even tho I look European.

You would need both of your parents to be of Chinese descent for you to be described as Chinese Australian. If you also have European ancestry I think the description would be Eurasian Australian, although if I shared your heritage I'd take the liberty to describe myself as exotic . My own ancestors were Huguenots though I'll be darned if I'm going to describe myself as French

I am classed as Aboriginal as my great grandmother was koorie as is my Thai son recognised as aboriginal by law. A bit of a mongrel really with Chinese, Irish and Aboriginal blood.

actually being only half-Chinese is enough to identify as being either Chinese or Chinese-Australian. Similarly in Thailand, the vast majority of Chinese thais are of mixed Chinese and other ethnic origin. Very few are pure Han as the majority of Chinese immigrants were male who married local wives after arriving in Thailand.

[Tomtomtom69]

I can see a Chinese-Thai, on that came from China and became a Thai citizen.

Vice versa for a Thai moving to China and becoming a citizen of China.

But I know many Thai people, born and raised in Thailand as were their parents and

still they refer to themselves as Chinese. Is "Chinese" a race?

The Thai that go to American and become citizens are Americans, there is I'm sure

a Thai-American community, but being an American is not a race thing.

How can someone be Thai and be Chinese?

Different cultures & religions behave in their own way when they make a home in a new country. Many races & cultures just adapt & "fit in" to their new home but certain groups remain totally immersed in their own culture for generations, regardless of where they are. A catholic in Mexico would think of himself as a Mexican first and a catholic second. A Mexican citizen with Chinese, Jew or Muslim connections would usually have a self image where being Mexican came second. A Dutch 3rd generation migrant to Australia or New Zealand would be "of Dutch extraction" as a secondary self view after being Kiwi or Aussie. Italians are a bit more clanny than most Europeans, as are migrated Yugoslavians & Greeks. There are 4 groups that come easily to mind that take it to extremes with language, religion, even living in the sale suburbs: Jews, Muslims, Chinese & the Zoroastrians who fled Iran after the Muslim take-over & settled in India & Zanzibar. Freddy Mercury's family were typical examples of the latter group. These 4 groups of people, more than many other cultures are "good" examples of those who only superficially mix.

Walk into any big shop in Thailand, particularly general hardware stores in rural Thailand and notice the Buddha figures & images on the wall & wall shrine. The number of Chinese Thai here who obviously are very involved in their own culture is staggering. These people very rarely marry outside their own subgroup (as reported by an earlier poster) and the obvious fact with all these Thai citizens is that they are Chinese first and Thai second. They would probably all "think of themselves" as such and many would not think twice before replying as they think.

I hope this is not seen as racist but merely as a way to identify how people see themselves in their chosen country of residence ( or that their great great grandparents chose.)

I don't know who you've talked to about this topic but I strongly disagree. Many thais I know are of Chinese origin but they have almost no knowledge of their ethnic origins other than that their ancestors came from China. Most have no knowledge of the Chinese language, have never been to China and self identify simply as thai. Even if they have the odd thai-Chinese calendar in their homes or businesses that doesn't make them any more Chinese. Ethnic Chinese in Thailand integrated much better into thai society than ethnic Chinese in nearby countries such as Malaysia or Indonesia. In those countries there is almost no intermarriage with locals either, whereas in Thailand ethnic Chinese will simply pay attention to the wealth of the other partner their status etc. Sure there may be some occasional racism such as not wanting to marry a "dark skinned" person but generally speaking one sees a lot of couples where the guy may be ethnic Chinese but the girlfriend or wife isn't.