Growing Red Wines in Thailand?

[German Viking]

Do somebody having personally experience growing red wines in Thailand?

[CiaranO]

You mean grapes right ?

[German Viking]

You mean grapes right ?

Yes, I mean red grapevines.

[crazygreg44]

in the mountains, west of Hua Hin, there are vineyards producings reds and whites. They even won one medal in a german contest. The initiator of these vineyards is a lady from Germany.

There are local growers of grapes in the Pak Chong region, they also sell grapevines (ready to plant). But I still have to locate them. Some sell at the roadside of the highway number 24.

In markets I have seen grape juices, whose labels said that they come from the Samut Prakan area.

Edited January 18, 2015 by crazygreg44

[German Viking]

in the mountains, west of Hua Hin, there are vineyards producings reds and whites. They even won one medal in a german contest. The initiator of these vineyards is a lady from Germany.

There are local growers of grapes in the Pak Chong region, they also sell grapevines (ready to plant). But I still have to locate them. Some sell at the roadside of the highway number 24.

In markets I have seen grape juices, whose labels said that they come from the Samut Prakan area.

Thanks for your replay interesting would to know, what a kind of red Grapevines they plant like Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon etc.

[NeverSure]

You mean grapes right ?

You don't grow your own wine?

[crazygreg44]

check their site at http://www.huahinhills.com/hhhsnw2/

[crazygreg44]

also here near Pattaya : http://www.silverlakevineyard.com/

I cannot find a working link for the Samut Prakan vineyards but they definitely exist . . .

[German Viking]

You mean grapes right ?

You don't grow your own wine?

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This will be the next project anyway what they do is probably let growing pears into the bottles and add later Schnaps, the finished product will calling "Williams Christ Birne".

I actually producing for years at home in germany:

Red Grapes Liqueur and Walnut Liqueur, but only private and for friends no chemicals involved no sugar only from my own eco plants.

[Crazy chef 1]

in the mountains, west of Hua Hin, there are vineyards producings reds and whites. They even won one medal in a german contest. The initiator of these vineyards is a lady from Germany.

There are local growers of grapes in the Pak Chong region, they also sell grapevines (ready to plant). But I still have to locate them. Some sell at the roadside of the highway number 24.

In markets I have seen grape juices, whose labels said that they come from the Samut Prakan area.

Thanks for your replay interesting would to know, what a kind of red Grapevines they plant like Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon etc.

ok just to clarify something. the initiator is a Thai. and he hired the German lady named Uschi to be his Cellar master than Uschi got pregnant and went back 1 1/2 years ago... the grapes are mostly shiraz.their basic range is very well balanced for example the "Colombard" is a very nice light drinking wine...both rosés are fantastic and the sparkling wine is also pretty nice...the only thing they have to work on is their flagship range- value is not given at the moment.always worth a visit,very nice ambience good food and stunning location close to the Burmese boarder...

[German Viking]

in the mountains, west of Hua Hin, there are vineyards producings reds and whites. They even won one medal in a german contest. The initiator of these vineyards is a lady from Germany.

There are local growers of grapes in the Pak Chong region, they also sell grapevines (ready to plant). But I still have to locate them. Some sell at the roadside of the highway number 24.

In markets I have seen grape juices, whose labels said that they come from the Samut Prakan area.

Thanks for your replay interesting would to know, what a kind of red Grapevines they plant like Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon etc.

ok just to clarify something. the initiator is a Thai. and he hired the German lady named Uschi to be his Cellar master than Uschi got pregnant and went back 1 1/2 years ago... the grapes are mostly shiraz.their basic range is very well balanced for example the "Colombard" is a very nice light drinking wine...both rosés are fantastic and the sparkling wine is also pretty nice...the only thing they have to work on is their flagship range- value is not given at the moment.always worth a visit,very nice ambience good food and stunning location close to the Burmese boarder...

I has checked their website already, but I cloud not find any price idea for the wines they selling for example 0.75 bottle Shiraz.

Looks like they got a german winemaker Lady again with a very funny family name (German slang word for cathouse).

http://www.huahinhills.com/hhhsnw2/wine-maker/

[His Masters Voice]

in the mountains, west of Hua Hin, there are vineyards producings reds and whites. They even won one medal in a german contest. The initiator of these vineyards is a lady from Germany.

There are local growers of grapes in the Pak Chong region, they also sell grapevines (ready to plant). But I still have to locate them. Some sell at the roadside of the highway number 24.

In markets I have seen grape juices, whose labels said that they come from the Samut Prakan area.

Thanks for your replay interesting would to know, what a kind of red Grapevines they plant like Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon etc.

One of the things you have to be carefull about is fungal diseases which affect the vines in areas of high humidity.

Here is a USA site on growing vines in a high humidity area. http://www.winepros.org/wine101/viniculture.htm

Plus one from the UK. http://www.grapegrowingguide.com/pest-control.html

The reason that you sometimes see Roses planted at the head of each row of vines is that many of the diseases and insects which attack the grape vine also attack the Rose. you will see the signs on the Rose bush first usually before they attack your grape vines.

If you are planning a Winery style, tourist attraction vineyard, then be knowledgeable of the fact that many places that are set up like this which have vines growing are often purely decorative, advertising for the tourists and the grapes or slurry is shipped in from outside areas and fermented and stored on-site.

So, you locate the 'Wineary' where the people/Tourists are and import the grapes from the areas where grapes grow best.

This is a must read article on Grape Production in Thailand. http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/x6897e/x6897e0a.htm

[German Viking]

in the mountains, west of Hua Hin, there are vineyards producings reds and whites. They even won one medal in a german contest. The initiator of these vineyards is a lady from Germany.

There are local growers of grapes in the Pak Chong region, they also sell grapevines (ready to plant). But I still have to locate them. Some sell at the roadside of the highway number 24.

In markets I have seen grape juices, whose labels said that they come from the Samut Prakan area.

Thanks for your replay interesting would to know, what a kind of red Grapevines they plant like Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon etc.

One of the things you have to be carefull about is fungal diseases which affect the vines in areas of high humidity.

Here is a USA site on growing vines in a high humidity area. http://www.winepros.org/wine101/viniculture.htm

Plus one from the UK. http://www.grapegrowingguide.com/pest-control.html

The reason that you sometimes see Roses planted at the head of each row of vines is that many of the diseases and insects which attack the grape vine also attack the Rose. you will see the signs on the Rose bush first usually before they attack your grape vines.

If you are planning a Winery style, tourist attraction vineyard, then be knowledgeable of the fact that many places that are set up like this which have vines growing are often purely decorative, advertising for the tourists and the grapes or slurry is shipped in from outside areas and fermented and stored on-site.

So, you locate the 'Wineary' where the people/Tourists are and import the grapes from the areas where grapes grow best.

This is a must read article on Grape Production in Thailand. http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/x6897e/x6897e0a.htm

Thanks for your info, to avoid problems with Viteus vitifoliae I like to use grapevines from the Americano family to solve this problem.

I see also the problem with fungus in high humidity area, to avoid this, I guess, I will make the vineyard in Isaan close to cambodian border.

Continental climate in general, dez/jan cold nights sometimes close to 0 C, but daytime +30C and febr/march/april daytime up to +40 or more, but night under +20 C, this is a similar climate as in Langedoc/Rousillion just perfect to produce a good red wine. I think there I will no having any fungus problems.

Over there is almost the whole year around a temperature difference day to nighttime of about 15 to 20 degrees.

I like to produce a solid good quality ecological red wine, I don't like to win any prices, only produce for the thai market.

Simple said a wine I like to drink also myself without any worries that the wine contents any chemicals.

[Crazy chef 1]

in the mountains, west of Hua Hin, there are vineyards producings reds and whites. They even won one medal in a german contest. The initiator of these vineyards is a lady from Germany.

There are local growers of grapes in the Pak Chong region, they also sell grapevines (ready to plant). But I still have to locate them. Some sell at the roadside of the highway number 24.

In markets I have seen grape juices, whose labels said that they come from the Samut Prakan area.

Thanks for your replay interesting would to know, what a kind of red Grapevines they plant like Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon etc.

ok just to clarify something. the initiator is a Thai. and he hired the German lady named Uschi to be his Cellar master than Uschi got pregnant and went back 1 1/2 years ago... the grapes are mostly shiraz.their basic range is very well balanced for example the "Colombard" is a very nice light drinking wine...both rosés are fantastic and the sparkling wine is also pretty nice...the only thing they have to work on is their flagship range- value is not given at the moment.always worth a visit,very nice ambience good food and stunning location close to the Burmese boarder...

I has checked their website already, but I cloud not find any price idea for the wines they selling for example 0.75 bottle Shiraz.

Looks like they got a german winemaker Lady again with a very funny family name (German slang word for cathouse).

http://www.huahinhills.com/hhhsnw2/wine-maker/

the lady mentioned by me is the same one with the funny sure name and according to my knowledge she is back in the Reich.mbefore they had another PR/ sales lady named Hanna but she has also left.than they employed a sneaky dodgy pony tailed Thai katoy as their representative and after a few dissapointments I stopped business with them.sad but true because i think the wine has great potential just too expensive but the whole sale prices are ok.

[BoneRanger]

in the mountains, west of Hua Hin, there are vineyards producings reds and whites. They even won one medal in a german contest. The initiator of these vineyards is a lady from Germany.

There are local growers of grapes in the Pak Chong region, they also sell grapevines (ready to plant). But I still have to locate them. Some sell at the roadside of the highway number 24.

In markets I have seen grape juices, whose labels said that they come from the Samut Prakan area.

Thanks for your replay interesting would to know, what a kind of red Grapevines they plant like Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon etc.

One of the things you have to be carefull about is fungal diseases which affect the vines in areas of high humidity.

Here is a USA site on growing vines in a high humidity area. http://www.winepros.org/wine101/viniculture.htm

Plus one from the UK. http://www.grapegrowingguide.com/pest-control.html

The reason that you sometimes see Roses planted at the head of each row of vines is that many of the diseases and insects which attack the grape vine also attack the Rose. you will see the signs on the Rose bush first usually before they attack your grape vines.

If you are planning a Winery style, tourist attraction vineyard, then be knowledgeable of the fact that many places that are set up like this which have vines growing are often purely decorative, advertising for the tourists and the grapes or slurry is shipped in from outside areas and fermented and stored on-site.

So, you locate the 'Wineary' where the people/Tourists are and import the grapes from the areas where grapes grow best.

This is a must read article on Grape Production in Thailand. http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/x6897e/x6897e0a.htm

Exactly right. They must be spraying the hell out of the vines to control mildew.

Back in the States, I know the premium grapes are not grown in the hot areas. Cool evenings seem to be a key factor.

Chataeu Loei has been mentioned to me by a wine friend but I have not tasted yet.

Would it be viable to import premium bulk grape juice (saving alcohol tax) from the Napa Valley and ferment it here I wonder?

I know some wineries that will sell you a tanker of chilled fresh Chardonnay, Cabernet, etc. juice.

[German Viking]

in the mountains, west of Hua Hin, there are vineyards producings reds and whites. They even won one medal in a german contest. The initiator of these vineyards is a lady from Germany.

There are local growers of grapes in the Pak Chong region, they also sell grapevines (ready to plant). But I still have to locate them. Some sell at the roadside of the highway number 24.

In markets I have seen grape juices, whose labels said that they come from the Samut Prakan area.

Thanks for your replay interesting would to know, what a kind of red Grapevines they plant like Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon etc.

One of the things you have to be carefull about is fungal diseases which affect the vines in areas of high humidity.

Here is a USA site on growing vines in a high humidity area. http://www.winepros.org/wine101/viniculture.htm

Plus one from the UK. http://www.grapegrowingguide.com/pest-control.html

The reason that you sometimes see Roses planted at the head of each row of vines is that many of the diseases and insects which attack the grape vine also attack the Rose. you will see the signs on the Rose bush first usually before they attack your grape vines.

If you are planning a Winery style, tourist attraction vineyard, then be knowledgeable of the fact that many places that are set up like this which have vines growing are often purely decorative, advertising for the tourists and the grapes or slurry is shipped in from outside areas and fermented and stored on-site.

So, you locate the 'Wineary' where the people/Tourists are and import the grapes from the areas where grapes grow best.

This is a must read article on Grape Production in Thailand. http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/x6897e/x6897e0a.htm

Exactly right. They must be spraying the hell out of the vines to control mildew.

Back in the States, I know the premium grapes are not grown in the hot areas. Cool evenings seem to be a key factor.

Chataeu Loei has been mentioned to me by a wine friend but I have not tasted yet.

Would it be viable to import premium bulk grape juice (saving alcohol tax) from the Napa Valley and ferment it here I wonder?

I know some wineries that will sell you a tanker of chilled fresh Chardonnay, Cabernet, etc. juice.

Yes is very easy to produce, I was used to living and working in norway, I has produced apple wine for myself this is legal.

I bought 20 ltr. of apple juice put it in a 20 ltr. plastic container add yeast, then depending on the temperature around 15 - 20 degrees Celsius is fine, after around 2 weeks you having wine, I got a perfect quality.

Anyway there is a problem to transport juice in bulkhauls you have to keep the temperature between +5 - 10 C or fermentation starts.

Temperature up and downs during transportations is bad for the wine quality, in the worst case you having by arrival vinegar already.

[BoneRanger]

Keeping the juice cold would be vital. I wonder if it would be a viable plan ?

I am not sure about bulk red juice since the juice is pink and must be fermented with the skins for color.

Edited January 19, 2015 by BoneRanger

[German Viking]

Keeping the juice cold would be vital. I wonder if it would be a viable plan ?

I am not sure about bulk red juice since the juice is pink and must be fermented with the skins for color.

I think not viable, it's to risky, there are vinegar flies who can infect the Juice and then you will getting vinegar.

To the fermentation of red wine, there a some red grapes you can produce rose also red wine the difference makes the fermentation process.

To produce Rose wine is very easy direct after harvest squeeze and then press the grapes. Result Rose after fermentation.

To produce Red wine you squeeze the red grapes and then put everything in a open container for minimum 1 week, depending how dark you like the wine, then fermentation will start and take the colour out of the skin.

[crazygreg44]

I think you under estimate the presence of insects, ants, termites and other flying things in the Isaan.

Your wine would end up anything but eco-wine, due to all the pesticides and herbicides you need to use on the grapes and the grapevine, in order to keep everything intact. I remember 14 years ago seeing a photo from Hua Hin Hills where they covered all the young grapes with a translucent plastic bag against the flying hungry armies.

Then there is the soil, in the Isaan locations with good soil are rare.

Then there is the availability of water. No water near your wineyard in the dry sason means sure death to the plants, if their roots cannot reach any moist ground table.

If red grapes would grow successfully in the Isaan, it would have been done a long time ago and would be visible by now. It's worth a try, but don't expect anything from it.

We had to grapevines near the house, they needed water constantly but just did not grow, but I admit I didn't tender them with the best care . . maybe someone who really cares, will have slightly more success ?

[German Viking]

I think you under estimate the presence of insects, ants, termites and other flying things in the Isaan.

Your wine would end up anything but eco-wine, due to all the pesticides and herbicides you need to use on the grapes and the grapevine, in order to keep everything intact. I remember 14 years ago seeing a photo from Hua Hin Hills where they covered all the young grapes with a translucent plastic bag against the flying hungry armies.

Then there is the soil, in the Isaan locations with good soil are rare.

Then there is the availability of water. No water near your wineyard in the dry sason means sure death to the plants, if their roots cannot reach any moist ground table.

If red grapes would grow successfully in the Isaan, it would have been done a long time ago and would be visible by now. It's worth a try, but don't expect anything from it.

We had to grapevines near the house, they needed water constantly but just did not grow, but I admit I didn't tender them with the best care . . maybe someone who really cares, will have slightly more success ?

I can tell you only my experience in germany in my garden behind the house.

My grandfather planted there about 60 years ago 1 plant red grapevine Amerikaner Traube(Uhudler) never got any fertilizer or any fungicide, pesticide, insecticide or irrigation, not any real education cut, only when he spread out to wide.

This 1 grapevine plant produce every year 100 to 200 kg grapes, depending on the weather.

It is a poor soil about 30cm topsoil(Muttererde), then sand and gravel up to 30 meters deep, it's alluvial area rhine river.

Waterlevel about 10mtr. under surface the roots are down in the water, vineroots can go 25 meters down to the water.

In general as deeper the waterlevel as better the wine quaility, caused the roots passing more minerals, but young plants you have to irrigate in extrem situations until the reach the water level.

Back to Isaan I have over there a piece of land about 1 rai very close to the border mountains to cambodia, direct beside my land is a small lake I has never seen the water level never more as 2 mtr. under surface, the last time I was there, during whole april, never under + 40 C every day up to +45 C in the shadow, but in nighttime still down to 20 or lower.

The mountains are covered with protected forest not allowed to cut 1 tree, they keeping the water and release it slowly.

The waterlevel on my land is only 1 to 2mtr. under the surface, this is more an disavantage for me, but a good place to start to see what will be happen.

About all the insects I'm not so much afraid.

1. My vine is resitant against Viteus vitifoliae (Reblaus).

2. I was only afraid of Drosophila suzukii, caused they came last year in a big invasion in my region and distroyed 1000 of tons cherries.

But I read the they don't like temperatures over + 30 C.

The other insects we will see, anyway I will not spray anything.

After about 1 year we will see the result.

I'm probably more afraid that the kids will stealing a lot of grapes, but this is solvable.

I the worst case I will use this grapevine only as a shadowmaker and let overgrow my pergola.

[Rooo]

Moved to Farming Forum.

[stoli]

in the mountains, west of Hua Hin, there are vineyards producings reds and whites. They even won one medal in a german contest. The initiator of these vineyards is a lady from Germany.

There are local growers of grapes in the Pak Chong region, they also sell grapevines (ready to plant). But I still have to locate them. Some sell at the roadside of the highway number 24.

In markets I have seen grape juices, whose labels said that they come from the Samut Prakan area.

Thanks for your replay interesting would to know, what a kind of red Grapevines they plant like Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon etc.

One of the things you have to be carefull about is fungal diseases which affect the vines in areas of high humidity.

Here is a USA site on growing vines in a high humidity area. http://www.winepros.org/wine101/viniculture.htm

Plus one from the UK. http://www.grapegrowingguide.com/pest-control.html

The reason that you sometimes see Roses planted at the head of each row of vines is that many of the diseases and insects which attack the grape vine also attack the Rose. you will see the signs on the Rose bush first usually before they attack your grape vines.

If you are planning a Winery style, tourist attraction vineyard, then be knowledgeable of the fact that many places that are set up like this which have vines growing are often purely decorative, advertising for the tourists and the grapes or slurry is shipped in from outside areas and fermented and stored on-site.

So, you locate the 'Wineary' where the people/Tourists are and import the grapes from the areas where grapes grow best.

This is a must read article on Grape Production in Thailand. http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/x6897e/x6897e0a.htm

Exactly right. They must be spraying the hell out of the vines to control mildew.

Back in the States, I know the premium grapes are not grown in the hot areas. Cool evenings seem to be a key factor.

Chataeu Loei has been mentioned to me by a wine friend but I have not tasted yet.

Would it be viable to import premium bulk grape juice (saving alcohol tax) from the Napa Valley and ferment it here I wonder?

I know some wineries that will sell you a tanker of chilled fresh Chardonnay, Cabernet, etc. juice.

In California, wine grapes are indeed grown in hot areas, but these areas cool off at night by 30 -50 degrees, which the grapes love. A grapevine shuts down after 95 degrees, and will do nothing until it goes under that number. This prevents the vine from being overstressed trying to work when it cannot. You will find temperatures in the Sierra Foothills that go as high as 115 degrees during the day, and dropping into the 60's at night. In Sonoma County, the Cabernet's love the hot daytime weather of 105 degrees, and then the 70's at night. The grapes in California are not sprayed for mildew caused by humidity like we have here in Thailand, but when rain threatens.

You would not be able to grow Cabernet's, Merlots, or Chardonnay's in this climate.

[Classic Ray]

I know that in Khao Yai they have great success with growing red and white grapes, I have visited and bought products from http://www.khaoyaiwinery.com. The wine is high quality and therefore not cheap.

They also sell in Bangkok I think.

[Coaster11]

http://www.chateaudesbrumes.com/

[mike324]

I can't justify paying $50-80 per bottle for Thai wine, I bought a bottle before and it did not taste that good. I'll be happy with a $40 of low range lafite from wine store.

[davidmann]

just outside Pattay ,very large vineyard ,iv tried growing grapes ,no luck ,maybe the soil ,

[masuk]

Regarding producing an alcoholic drink from apples, I used to do the same in Australia, brewing up 40 litres of apple juice each Autumn. However, we called this APPLE CIDER.

I decanted it and added sugar and it had a kick like a mule! SCRUMPY CIDER.

However, can anyone tell me what Thai wines cost? I've never seen them on sale in the larger wine shops here.

There must be some reasoning to justify a 300% price difference between wines sold in Australia, and what we're being charged here.

Don't tell me that's it's to control alcohol consumption, as it's obvious that the "Whisky" they sell here is not imported and had Duty and Tax added.

[gwynt]

Here is one that has been in production for many years and they produce a very nice fresh white, http://chateaudeloei.com/history.html

Also a drinkable red, they have won many awards.

I make a point of visiting every time we go "Home" to Loei and buy a couple of boxes to take back

[gwynt]

just outside Pattay ,very large vineyard ,iv tried growing grapes ,no luck ,maybe the soil ,

Silver Lake is the vineyard outside Pattaya, my wife bought me some red from there, it was awful.

I have red grapes growing in my garden, obviously not for wine production but they are now 3 year old and growing strong, the white ones planted at the same time are yet to bear fruit.

Edited January 20, 2015 by gwynt

[CapeCobra]

Except for Chateau de Loei, I have been to all Thai wineries buying cases of their product, regularly. Monsoon Valley in Hua Hin is nice to visit in the hills. Their Shiraz Roses win medals in Europe. Their best reds are based on Shiraz and the Italian Sangiovese grapes. They also offer white Colombard. Very nice wine farms in Khao Yai area. Best dry whites at Granmonte using Chenin Blanc. They also have Verdelho (unique Portuguese), Viognier, and Cabernet Sauvignon (French, rare in Thailand). PB Valley produced some excellent reds with Spanish Tempranillo. The French winemaker at Village Farm uses Shiraz for their Chateau des Brumes. There are many respectable wines in Thailand. Thaibashers on TV have been degrading them regularly. Mostly in the category Value for Money. Please. Stick to your boxed Plonk. I prefer my Thai table wines over any box.

Import tax of 400% kept me from importing containers of excellent wines. Thought they wanted to protect their small wine industry. Not so! Local producers pay same as Ad Valorem tax. The political reason behind this stupidity is oil on the fires of Thaibashers.

Importing "juice" is cheaper, but I wouldn't go down that road.