Consulate beginning to ask for verification of income

[lcp0761]

I am 3-years out from retirement to LOS so all I read in these forum's are good information.

I believe a "Retirement extension" applicant should have a "proof of income" document and the USEMB/Consulate office should require and check the box it was provided.

Doing the above helps to ensure the financial quality of retiree's are what they should be.

A quote from my current Law Enforcement superiors - "Trust but Verify".

Edited January 23, 2015 by lcp0761

[tom21]

Let me add one thing that Phuket Immigration was doing. For the two years prior to this one, Thai Immigration required a letter from my bank stating that I was drawing 65k baht a month (whatever that amount was) from the American bank and that amount had to match the amount on the US Embassy letter. Then, I had to have a copy of the ATM card that I was drawing the money out with. Now, no American bank was going to give anyone that letter. So I had to make my own

This year I had everything ready including the bogus letter and...they don't want that anymore. What they did want was a copy of a Thai bank ATM card. I rarely use that card but I went made a copy and with just the American Embassy letter, was good to go.

I've got the income and can prove it but Thai Immigration wants certain things subject to change at their whim.

I would be telling immigration where to go. you are required to have an income of at least 65,000 thb a month. you are not required to spend that. I get a stat dec from the Australian embassy and I write at the bottom that funds will be transferred to Thailand as and when required.

[Wombat6]

Be a cat among a few pigeons if they really asked for proof?

Why would they after all, they are only witnessing an Affadavit, If someone declares false information.....be it on their head if caught.

[Dante99]

The US Consul will not get into verifying income. If they did, so many would fail, be forced to return to the US, suck US government funds on welfare, food stamps,... and cause problems there and they do not want that.

[true blue]

went for my proof of income letter yesterday to the uk consulate,she did check my documents even though it was the ninth time ive been there and its the same providers each year,pity its the last time i can go there for a letter,she is a very pleasant lady the vice consulate.

[LPCustom69]

The US Consul will not get into verifying income. If they did, so many would fail, be forced to return to the US, suck US government funds on welfare, food stamps,... and cause problems there and they do not want that.

Please! It's only $2,000 a month. Pretty much anyone who worked and retired in the last 10-15 years gets at least that.

Older retirees were grandfathered at a lower amount.

[tom21]

The US Consul will not get into verifying income. If they did, so many would fail, be forced to return to the US, suck US government funds on welfare, food stamps,... and cause problems there and they do not want that.

Please! It's only $2,000 a month. Pretty much anyone who worked and retired in the last 10-15 years gets at least that.

Older retirees were grandfathered at a lower amount.

not that long ago it was $2500. I think it not be to long before it is $1000. but that is not what the thread is about

[amexpat]

I am 3-years out from retirement to LOS so all I read in these forum's are good information.

I believe a "Retirement extension" applicant should have a "proof of income" document and the USEMB/Consulate office should require and check the box it was provided.

Doing the above helps to ensure the financial quality of retiree's are what they should be.

A quote from my current Law Enforcement superiors - "Trust but Verify".

I believe the requirement should be 20,000 baht more than your income. Arbitrary of course, but we're looking for quality expats.

[Jimbolai]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Oscar2, are you sure you heard correctly? How did you determine what documents the men were presenting? Did you see the documents? How did you determine the men were retired law enforcement?

Also, you say, "perjury carries a penalty of a fine and up to 3 years in federal prison." Where do you get that?

I've had things notarized there that had nothing to do with retirement income.

When I've sat there, I've been unable to hear what was said to the person due to that weird "cone of silence" they use.

You also state, "it's obvious that what is happening is what has been reported in other parts of the country - the beginning of the crackdown by the new government." Where do you get that? Do you really think the new government is capable of getting the US Consulate and US Embassy to verify income? As they say on the US consulate website, "To extend your stay in Thailand, Thai immigration might ask you to get a letter from us to “verify” your income. In fact, we are not empowered to do this. Instead, you may execute an affidavit in which you swear under oath or affirm your monthly income. "

I, for one, am having a had time buying your story.

The embassy or the US government does not verify the amount or anything else on the form. The "notarize" your signature by verifying that you look like the person on your passport. Nothing to do with amounts or anything else, just the signature. The OP's story looks totally contrived and he/she is trolling. Perhaps another foreigner jealous of those "lucky" Americans? This does not mean that the Thais could not change their rules and demand more proof. Hardly likely because they would not know how to handle that.

I for one not only have a hard time buying the story I think it is BS and that makes it two of us.

[northernjohn]

Let me add one thing that Phuket Immigration was doing. For the two years prior to this one, Thai Immigration required a letter from my bank stating that I was drawing 65k baht a month (whatever that amount was) from the American bank and that amount had to match the amount on the US Embassy letter. Then, I had to have a copy of the ATM card that I was drawing the money out with. Now, no American bank was going to give anyone that letter. So I had to make my own

This year I had everything ready including the bogus letter and...they don't want that anymore. What they did want was a copy of a Thai bank ATM card. I rarely use that card but I went made a copy and with just the American Embassy letter, was good to go.

I've got the income and can prove it but Thai Immigration wants certain things subject to change at their whim.

You do realize this is a Chiang Mai thread I hope.

[Dante99]

The US Consul will not get into verifying income. If they did, so many would fail, be forced to return to the US, suck US government funds on welfare, food stamps,... and cause problems there and they do not want that.

Please! It's only $2,000 a month. Pretty much anyone who worked and retired in the last 10-15 years gets at least that.

Older retirees were grandfathered at a lower amount.

Sure probably most recent retirees would that the $2,000 but the people in Thailand do not fit into that group "most people".

Tell us about "older retirees grandfathered in at a lower amount"

When did these happen?

How old did one have to be at that time?

How many years in Thailand at that time?

What is the lower amount?

[Privateer]

So Devram its "none of their f...ing business" how much someone earns just because they want to live in Thailand. Guess it's not up to Thais to decide who they want to let live in their country and under what conditions. No doubt you would also be very indignant if they stopped you proudly abusing their visa system?

[thailand49]

I suspect most the people commenting here are suffering from "green eye" because the reality of this is that no American usually gets an affidavit under false pretences and under the threat of commiting perjury the penalties are SEVERE! Unlike in the UK where no one thinks twice about telling fibs to Inland revenue. People who have a chip on their shoulder about Americans being able to do this have little understanding of the actual process.

+1

[inzman]

These rumors seem to come out from time to time. I believe the way the USA handles the income verification makes a lot of other nationalities jealous. So they start these rumors to justify the hard hand approach from their own embassies. The USA does not verify income, nor will they start. They verify a citizens signature, so no reason they would change now.

[oneday]

The interesting thing people seem to forget is "notarizing" something is only to notarize that you have signed in front of the "notary" and they have checked your ID to verify that you are who you say you are. Notarization has absolutely nothing to do with verify anything on the document you are signing. This doesn't mean the consulate cannot ask, but that is not the service they are supposed to be providing as a "notary". I speak about all this as a US citizen only. Also, if the letter you are signing states where you are getting your income stream from they may feel the need to at least ask you where your income is coming from without seeing the proof, but once again, this is not what a "notary" is supposed to do. It is not their function.

Now when you get to immigration you better come prepared to answer anything about your income because they CAN ask if they want to and I'm sure most people know this. So if you have proof, why not bring it to the embassy or consulate also. What harm is it to show a folder and answer the question, unless, of course, you are lying.

[streetlite]

hy is it that not one poster concerning this subject has actually stated "yes, the US Embassy official asked me for paystubs, pension statements, social security statements, etc. in order to notarize my income verification form?"

It's all these Nervous Nellie's that seem to be posting these scare tactics with the "I heard, she heard, my friend told me, I overheard"

statements.

Yes, I was a bit nervous about going to the Embassy last week for what is my 5th income verification. The know it all's on Thai Visa had me concerned enough that I dug up my last three years of tax statements and took them with me.

In and out in 5 minutes with no questions asked about verification other than my signature.

My income, of course, is legitimate by way of pension and social security.

So please keep your mouths shut if you have no factual information about this issue.

[hml367]

Be a cat among a few pigeons if they really asked for proof?

Why would they after all, they are only witnessing an Affadavit, If someone declares false information.....be it on their head if caught.

Even if they may never have refused, they could I think:

We may refuse to provide a notary service when:

• the person executing the document does not understand the nature, language or consequences of the document
• the host country does not authorize the performance of the service
• the document will be used in transactions or for purposes that may be prohibited by U.S. law
• we believe that the document will be used for a purpose that is unlawful, improper, or inimical to the best interests of the United States
• we cannot understand the document, due to language or any other reason.

Edited January 24, 2015 by hml367

[circusman]

hy is it that not one poster concerning this subject has actually stated "yes, the US Embassy official asked me for paystubs, pension statements, social security statements, etc. in order to notarize my income verification form?"

It's all these Nervous Nellie's that seem to be posting these scare tactics with the "I heard, she heard, my friend told me, I overheard"

statements.

Yes, I was a bit nervous about going to the Embassy last week for what is my 5th income verification. The know it all's on Thai Visa had me concerned enough that I dug up my last three years of tax statements and took them with me.

In and out in 5 minutes with no questions asked about verification other than my signature.

My income, of course, is legitimate by way of pension and social security.

So please keep your mouths shut if you have no factual information about this issue.

Asking posters on tv to keep their mouth shut is futile. It is common to give medical, financial, romance advice and more whether the posters have any good knowledge or not.

I have considered tv entertainment rather than a good source of anything.

[Thailand]

hy is it that not one poster concerning this subject has actually stated "yes, the US Embassy official asked me for paystubs, pension statements, social security statements, etc. in order to notarize my income verification form?"

It's all these Nervous Nellie's that seem to be posting these scare tactics with the "I heard, she heard, my friend told me, I overheard"

statements.

Yes, I was a bit nervous about going to the Embassy last week for what is my 5th income verification. The know it all's on Thai Visa had me concerned enough that I dug up my last three years of tax statements and took them with me.

In and out in 5 minutes with no questions asked about verification other than my signature.

My income, of course, is legitimate by way of pension and social security.

So please keep your mouths shut if you have no factual information about this issue.

Asking posters on tv to keep their mouth shut is futile. It is common to give medical, financial, romance advice and more whether the posters have any good knowledge or not.

I have considered tv entertainment rather than a good source of anything.

I guess it depends who is giving the advice? I have found TV to be generally useful for specific info on a variety of subjects.

You just have to sift the posts from the local cretins.

[SantiSuk]

I suspect most the people commenting here are suffering from "green eye" because the reality of this is that no American usually gets an affidavit under false pretences and under the threat of commiting perjury the penalties are SEVERE! Unlike in the UK where no one thinks twice about telling fibs to Inland revenue. People who have a chip on their shoulder about Americans being able to do this have little understanding of the actual process.

If you are saying that Brits cheat on their tax at a higher rate than do Americans I'd like to see the proof please. Otherwise you are just plucking assumptions out of the air. I don't believe it having worked and lived in both countries, but I would not be foolish enough to launch that as being fact.

If you are saying that Brits cheat on their tax more than Americans do in getting an afadavit because the penalties on the latter are more draconian then I'm willing to believe that but it's a meaningless apples & pears comparison which makes me wonder why you dragged the Brits into the equation in the first place.

I'm just being picky - I like both countries and most of their countrymen a lot!

[onthedarkside]

All the off topic posts on US politics have been removed.

[mikey88]

Some countries do have an over exaggerated sense of their own importance it seems. The power to set immigration law and conditions would rest with the host country not the consulate of a foreign country...it would seem to me at least.

[keith7777]

I have always thought that one day when I go for my letter that they would ask me for proof, that is why I keep a copy of my proof with me at all times when I go to the embassy for verification of income. They always ask me if I have it, just never ask for it. I don't mind if they do as I try to always be prepared to show proof. I don't want to see anyone have a problem, but there are many farang here who do not make enough to stay, but some how manage to stay any way. The costs are really going up here now and some of the food markets that cater to farang are spiking out of sight.

Any way hope all is well out there in regulation land.

[kingalfred]

i am only stating what i witnessed the other day. i'm not in any way stating there is a an official change in policy.

i had some business at the U.S. Consulate the other day that took about 2.5 hours to complete. while there i sat around a long time waiting. some of the time was spent sitting in the back behind window 3. as you know, you can hear everything that is going on... during that time there were 3 single American men who presented for their income letter. each of them was asked prior to taking the oath, specifically what the source(s) of their income was and if they had the documents there with them to substantiate their claim. now, none of them were asked to slip the documents through the window, only to show their file folders, manila envelopes, etc. the 3 men i saw were all able to immediately state their income sources (2 were retired law enforcement and had pension incomes), and the other didn't flinch and reported his sources from overseas business. all had their proof sitting right on the counter.

it's obvious that what is happening is what has been reported in other parts of the country - the beginning of the crackdown by the new government. keep in mind that if caught and if convicted, perjury carries a penalty of a fine and up to 3 years in federal prison. people should consider their actions carefully.

why would "American Men" have to show "proof of income" at the US consulate? what were they applying for?

[mesquite]

Oscar2, are you sure you heard correctly? How did you determine what documents the men were presenting? Did you see the documents? How did you determine the men were retired law enforcement?

Also, you say, "perjury carries a penalty of a fine and up to 3 years in federal prison." Where do you get that?

I've had things notarized there that had nothing to do with retirement income.

When I've sat there, I've been unable to hear what was said to the person due to that weird "cone of silence" they use.

You also state, "it's obvious that what is happening is what has been reported in other parts of the country - the beginning of the crackdown by the new government." Where do you get that? Do you really think the new government is capable of getting the US Consulate and US Embassy to verify income? As they say on the US consulate website, "To extend your stay in Thailand, Thai immigration might ask you to get a letter from us to “verify” your income. In fact, we are not empowered to do this. Instead, you may execute an affidavit in which you swear under oath or affirm your monthly income. "

I, for one, am having a had time buying your story.

MY APOLOGIES TO OSCAR2

Well, I just got back from the US Consulate to get my notarized income statement, and you can hear every word that is being said.

They asked one guy what was his source of income and he told them and that was it. Then when it got to me, the man asked me, I told him, then he asked if I'd brought documentation. I said no and he rephrased the question about the income, this time asking for more detail. I gave him the answer and that was it.

He took my oath and gave me the letter and told me to bring documentation next time, which I will do.

[Diplomatico]

They asked one guy what was his source of income and he told them and that was it. Then when it got to me, the man asked me, I told him, then he asked if I'd brought documentation. I said no and he rephrased the question about the income, this time asking for more detail. I gave him the answer and that was it.

He took my oath and gave me the letter and told me to bring documentation next time, which I will do.

So you are implying that they are now doing random spotchecks?

[mesquite]

They asked one guy what was his source of income and he told them and that was it. Then when it got to me, the man asked me, I told him, then he asked if I'd brought documentation. I said no and he rephrased the question about the income, this time asking for more detail. I gave him the answer and that was it.

He took my oath and gave me the letter and told me to bring documentation next time, which I will do.

So you are implying that they are now doing random spotchecks?

I'm just reporting what happened to me and what I heard. I think the OP was correct.

Maybe they want to discourage people from lying on the form.

[circusman]

The US Consul will not get into verifying income. If they did, so many would fail, be forced to return to the US, suck US government funds on welfare, food stamps,... and cause problems there and they do not want that.

Do you have facts ? How do you know many would fail ? Your guessing is my guess.

[amexpat]

The US Consul will not get into verifying income. If they did, so many would fail, be forced to return to the US, suck US government funds on welfare, food stamps,... and cause problems there and they do not want that.

Do you have facts ? How do you know many would fail ? Your guessing is my guess.

My guess is Dante doesn't need facts. He has Fox.

[Dante99]

The US Consul will not get into verifying income. If they did, so many would fail, be forced to return to the US, suck US government funds on welfare, food stamps,... and cause problems there and they do not want that.

Do you have facts ? How do you know many would fail ? Your guessing is my guess.

There are a lot of reasons that they will not get into verivying income which you can find on previous topics on this forum.

Many is realtive, certainly I can not tell you how precisely many would fail, why the hell would I bother trying to find out?