17 foreign ‘English teachers’ arrested in Chiang Mai for working illegally

[mommysboy]

Teaching English to Chinese people online, its outrageous! I don't feel safe to go out if stuff like this is happening.

It is also bringing in wealth to Thailand. Don't these people know when they are well off!

If the goose that lays the golden egg landed in Thailand it would be slaughtered on the spot.

[anon022]

but why do it here? why not cambodia where you can be legal with no effort? surely siem reap has as much to offer as chiang mai. cost wise similar?

Personally I don't think it's illegal here (I don't mean the teachers arrested on this occasion, they were unquestionably acting illegally - I mean people that truly work online exclusively for foreign clients that are paid abroad).

Given the Thai legal definition of work includes walking down the street, what constitutes 'working in Thailand' in practice can only be judged on the basis of precedents. I am unaware of any prior prosecution in Thailand (or anywhere in the world for that matter) of people that travel and work remotely over the internet for foreign entities with payment received outside of the country they are in - aka digital nomads.

It would be very hard to legislate anywhere in the world (for example is sending an email work? Is writing a book that you haven't received an advance for work? Is managing a portfolio work? Is receiving adwords income from a blog you wrote 3 years ago whilst you sit on a beach work?), but harder still in a country that has issued legislation that includes walking down the street and breathing in their definition of work.

Hear, hear!

[bangmai]

Did anyone else notice the bust was at 12:30 am? What schools operate at that hour? 11:30 pm in PEK? Perhaps a boiler room calling Europe? Overall, it seems like most here support the arrests. It reminds me of last month in Singapore, with the two Germans facing the cane. They recalled 20 years ago, the case of American Michael Fay, sentenced to 6 strokes. Apparently, there were thousands of letters sent to the Singapore Embassy in Washington. Almost all were in favor of the caning of their own citizen and were envious of the Singapore judicial system.

Is it just me, or does it seem like the Canadians are frequently at the forefront of foreign teacher scandals. Maybe it's all the Chinese in Canada....they think they are above the law. I believe the manager should get a couple of years. Since it's the end of the month; I doubt the trashpackers will have bail. There is a lot of money in one way airline tickets on short notice, and governments have been known to get a cut of that action. That was the MO for spring break miscreants in Mexico.....buy your drunk kid a one way ticket home for 3000 usd or we are throwing his arse in mexi-jail. Worked like a charm.

[anon022]

Did anyone else notice the bust was at 12:30 am? What schools operate at that hour? 11:30 pm in PEK? Perhaps a boiler room calling Europe? Overall, it seems like most here support the arrests. It reminds me of last month in Singapore, with the two Germans facing the cane. They recalled 20 years ago, the case of American Michael Fay, sentenced to 6 strokes. Apparently, there were thousands of letters sent to the Singapore Embassy in Washington. Almost all were in favor of the caning of their own citizen and were envious of the Singapore judicial system.

Is it just me, or does it seem like the Canadians are frequently at the forefront of foreign teacher scandals. Maybe it's all the Chinese in Canada....they think they are above the law. I believe the manager should get a couple of years. Since it's the end of the month; I doubt the trashpackers will have bail. There is a lot of money in one way airline tickets on short notice, and governments have been known to get a cut of that action. That was the MO for spring break miscreants in Mexico.....buy your drunk kid a one way ticket home for 3000 usd or we are throwing his arse in mexi-jail. Worked like a charm.

[darren84310]

Bad move.

They were not committing a crime, they were offering a service that Thais can't offer.

They were taking nobody's job.

Just another excuse to say how bad these foreigners are..................

I know, you can't work without a WP, but at this instance they were harming nobody.

They were bringing money into the Thai economy, providing a service that the Chinese were happy to pay for.... seems like everyone was a winner. Yet now there will be 17 vacant rooms/houses and several restaurants/bars with a few less customers.... smart move and obviously of top priority for the authorities.

[AYJAYDEE]

Bad move.

They were not committing a crime, they were offering a service that Thais can't offer.

They were taking nobody's job.

Just another excuse to say how bad these foreigners are..................

I know, you can't work without a WP, but at this instance they were harming nobody.

i would expect you to see it that way!! thais cant offer? what a load of crap!

[Larry8241]

How dare these sorry, educated foreigners working for less than minimum wage while turning down jobs paying tons more in their own country, do such a thing to help teach a useful language to the uneducated Thai's!!!!! They should be executed! (sarcasm intended here)

[bangmai]

Bad move.

They were not committing a crime, they were offering a service that Thais can't offer.

They were taking nobody's job.

Just another excuse to say how bad these foreigners are..................

I know, you can't work without a WP, but at this instance they were harming nobody.

They were bringing money into the Thai economy, providing a service that the Chinese were happy to pay for.... seems like everyone was a winner. Yet now there will be 17 vacant rooms/houses and several restaurants/bars with a few less customers.... smart move and obviously of top priority for the authorities.

17 people, who don't have medical insurance, nor any assets (unless you consider a tattoo an asset), who cannot take financial responsibility for their actions. I'm sure their Obama posters will be waiting to greet them in their parent's basement, along with their delinquent student loan notices.

[lapd]

Along with all the other dumb rules and regulations on this board I move to have the word Breaking: before any post also oulawed.

[spiritrace]

Sooooooo, learning English could be committing a criminal act.

[lapd]

You can work legally in Thailand as an individual over the internet. Lots of people do. As long as you are making money outside of Thailand and are not doing it through a Thai company. I think the problem here is that it was being done through a Thai company.

[Xircal]

Subtle difference between what these lot were doing and what digital nomads do, is this:

'The language teachers were hired by BOI 360 Max Co'

They were not working for customers in China, they were working for a Thai company that had customers in China, the teachers were working for a Thai co and being renumerated by a Thai company in Thailand.

Dumb.

360 Max Co., doesn't look like a Thai company to me somehow: http://abc360.com/

Here's the WHOIS link: http://whois.domaintools.com/abc360.com

I'm assuming here that it's the same setup which kingstonkid posted a link to: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/794216-17-foreign-english-teachers-arrested-in-chiang-mai-for-working-illegally/page-2#entry8975054

[bangmai]

It looks like the Chinese were using the farang.....but the farang still should have known it was shady......I'll bet those concrete floors are a bit cold tonight.

[beb]

Hey, I don't doubt that the law was technically broken here and blah, blah, blah, but this is certainly a case of selective prosecution that has nothing to do with maintaining law and order and everything to do with maintaining...hmmm, I'll leave that for now.

But I'm amused at all the moral outrage on display here for people that have the audacity to go to work and earn a living. I'm not advocating mayhem on the streets but the people involved were probably decent people just trying to get by in life. And make their way as they go.

And yeah, there are plenty of creeps that find their way to

thailand but just because somebody gets caught up in something like this doesn't give us free reign to condemn them as lowlifes. Stones and glass houses and all that.

[vagabondinglife]

I am very close to one of the teachers, and unsurprisingly, the Bangkok Post got this -completely- wrong.

My friend had a perfectly legal work permit, as did many other teachers. The article points the finger at the foreign teachers as criminal culprits. The company was at fault, promising legal work and then deliberately dragging feet when it came to sorting out the permit paperwork and expense.

The foreigners are not being held. They were released the next morning after a photoshoot with press. This was obviously just a publicity stunt, and of course, lots of 'fines' were paid. Each teacher was even asked for a US $100 'service charge' for such nice treatment in jail.

[spidermike007]

What a waste of time. Immigration/labor dept/cops have nothing better to do. The cops need to actually do something productive. Immigration needs to learn to stamp a passport on the first empty page, not randomly stamp in middle of passport. The Labor Department needs to issue work permits in conjunction with a work visa, not make people with s non-B visa wait and not be legal to work for a month or two until they finally get around to issuing a work permit. Try streamlining the operation. Obviously, fewer people would make a buck off the deal, so screw it. You want "World Class Standards Schools"? Try delivering world class standards visas/work permits.

From what I know of Thai police, this wasn't a random bust. Probably a competitor paid the police to raid them. That's simply how it works here. The police are too lazy and too inept to do real detective work out of the blue.

And you forgot to mention the lack of intelligence, creativity, and skill quotient.

[spidermike007]

I am very close to one of the teachers, and unsurprisingly, the Bangkok Post got this -completely- wrong.

My friend had a perfectly legal work permit, as did many other teachers. The article points the finger at the foreign teachers as criminal culprits. The company was at fault, promising legal work and then deliberately dragging feet when it came to sorting out the permit paperwork and expense.

The foreigners are not being held. They were released the next morning after a photoshoot with press. This was obviously just a publicity stunt, and of course, lots of 'fines' were paid. Each teacher was even asked for a US $100 'service charge' for such nice treatment in jail.

Part of the glory of a military dictatorship, is the extreme level of censorship that goes along with that. Thailand has never really had a free press, but I think it is safe to say that the two papers now do the generals bidding. So, the Post pretty much follows the script. Kind of like CNN does, with Obama. Except he is not really a dictator. Just a fascist. LOL.

[German Viking]

Those dämned foreigners again.

Thai's would never do somethings like this.

[micmichd]

Making you pay for bed and food if you don't work for it would be normal procedure in German jail or asylum, too. They probably sent the bill to the company which added something to it, nott forgetting a fee for printing a bill and make a copy from it etc. Then they added VAT to it all which went to the company's residence and the teacher in Thailand, and so everything was rounded up to 100 $. That's the bill the teacher got, same same procedure in Germany, Europe.

[German Viking]

So they were teaching online courses to people in China.....no one in China able to do this?

No caused of the lack of "R" same same in Thailand.

[micmichd]

I would surely love to attend an English class and be enlightened by a Bavarian 'r' and 'th, areally der sound is sso lovely

[puukao]

A. This gets my blood boiling!!!! No work permit, no working!!!! Do not break the laws of another country!!!!!!!!!

B. Get the riff raff out of this country!!! They are illegally working and those backpackers must be blacklisted!!!!

C. I feel bad for these teachers, but I guess it's important to follow all the rules and do proper due diligence

D. I am sure they were innocent teachers trying to help poor people of the world learn English at a low cost!!!!!!

E. OMG, These teachers are saving humans and working long hours for little pay; angels to many!!!!!!!!

[German Viking]

It's idiots like these that give other foreigners who are working here legally with a permit a bad name.

The idiots sitting in these company which gave them the job, for are service like this I would do it from the philippines, full of good english speaker for maximum the half salary and don't need a work permit at all.

Is this a thai company, I just wondering?

[German Viking]

Bad move.

They were not committing a crime, they were offering a service that Thais can't offer.

They were taking nobody's job.

Just another excuse to say how bad these foreigners are..................

I know, you can't work without a WP, but at this instance they were harming nobody.

For sure they did'nt paid any tea money, or not anymore.

[maynard420]

Actually they where working legally, you can work in a condo or house and work on the computer without a work permit, you only need a work permit to work for a company, I work on my computer and have been doing it for the last 13 years with the immigration office knowing what I do and they said as long as I do it in my own house and no where outside my house like a office building I would be fine, these guys must have pissed someone off in CM..

[micmichd]

Yes, maybe the children in school who wanted to be nice, adopted the teacher's lingo, and then phoned their family at home who found out that their child's chance to get a good job now declined focus on Bavaria.

[German Viking]

Bad move.

They were not committing a crime, they were offering a service that Thais can't offer.

They were taking nobody's job.

Just another excuse to say how bad these foreigners are..................

I know, you can't work without a WP, but at this instance they were harming nobody.

OK, not harming anyone.

So if I open a company that offers the same service but pay 50.000 / month , work permits, social , taxes.

Then this company turns up with the same service but does it illegally and can therefor undercut me, they are not harming anyone?

This is just propaganda to blame foreigners again instead to clean up LOS from real crime mainly made by Thai's.

This kind of propaganda leads only to a big shot in their own ar$e, and thighten the rope around the neck of their own economy in general, this is the best way to scare more tourists and international investor.

Som nam na.

A very famous economist from Norway said last year, black money is the grease of any economy, but not in the hand of only some rich, more spread out to simple ppl, caused they will spend it and smøre the economy, and this is true.

[German Viking]

Since they are monitoring everythng on the eagle look out for lese-majeste offences (Buddha forbid!) - their dragnet might catch other fish as well.

I still waiting for the big Thai fish catch.

[German Viking]

thai people should speech no fluent english only broken english as english is now officialy the language for the second class.

First class speaks Mandarin, Cantones and in top Russian to catch a the quality investors and tourists!!???

[German Viking]

A German and a Dutch chap as 'online' English teachers for Chinese ?

Mind you, I once knew a Scottish chap which was also interesting.

I missed in top the scandinavian fraction.